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FPSC Classic Product Chat / [LOCKED] Riker 9 FPSC Update

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kraM
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Location: SoCal
Posted: 24th Oct 2005 11:05
Makes two of us... So many questions so few threads.

If not for physics and law enforcement, I'd be unstoppable!
Jiffy
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Posted: 24th Oct 2005 11:07 Edited at: 24th Oct 2005 11:11
Just finished reading the whole thing. One thing - if you could sell the changes, and the changes only, am I right in thinking you would sell the snippets of added code? If this is the case, how would they go about doing this? By giving a readme to the person with the code and telling them which lines to add the snippets to? One more thing - Although I don't have the link, I clearly remember Rich saying that he was considering "releasing the code to any user, not just those who own both FPSC and DBPro, as it would be too hard to track those people", which he would have inevitably done. If this is the case... well, that would mean that anyone would have access to the code, meaning that releasing the engine whole would affect no one.

EDIT: Also, I know this was from many posts ago, and may have been answered - but if the engine is classified as game creation software because it creates everything in-game, that would mean that every game in existence would be game creation software.

Conjured Entertainment:
Quote: "
That's all a GAME ENGINE can do.
It's what it's designed to do.
It is game creation software.
It creates the 3D environment for the game.
"



Resident Evil Remake is teh fergin' best!
kraM
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Posted: 24th Oct 2005 11:10
FPSC as of now, but if Riker9 is found with out a doubt to be legal than I'll use what ever makes the best game play.

Mark

If not for physics and law enforcement, I'd be unstoppable!
Jiffy
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Posted: 24th Oct 2005 11:15 Edited at: 24th Oct 2005 11:15
Conjured Entertainment - You seemed to have ignored the part where I said that Rich mentioned releasing the source to anyone, regardless of whether they had DBPro and FPSC, as tracking those people would be too hard. This would mean that releasing a compiled version would not affect them, as the source is available to anyone regardless.


Resident Evil Remake is teh fergin' best!
BULLSHOCK 2
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 24th Oct 2005 11:19
make that 3 pages...

everyones gonna keep arguing untill tgc posts...
i am waiting...

Vlad
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Posted: 24th Oct 2005 12:21
Riker 9 or the FPSC-Game.exe is not used to make games. The editor is. When FPSC-Game.exe is recompiled to make a new engine with new funcionalities, then it's just that: a new engine with new funcionalities. Is it a game creation software? No. Is it part of a game creation software bundle. Yes.

You are taking this too serious Conjured Entertainement. Riker 9 is an enhancement, a recompilation. The basics of the game creation software will be the same. Those three rules you are pointing out are so clear and obvious, that going from what they say to what you are impling is a big walk.

I understand your concerns and I understand you are trying to help, but I cannot see in that 1st sentence anything that goes against using a recompiled engine with the editor. The creation software is exactly the same. Editor + Game Engine.
Jiffy
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Posted: 24th Oct 2005 12:52 Edited at: 24th Oct 2005 12:55
Conjured Entertainment - I see where you are coming from saying that, because Riker 9 would be used with FPSC, it is game creation software. I hardly believe this is how TGC see it. You are trying to break down each individual part of the term 'Game Engine', where as, when down to simplistic terms, the game engine does not, in any way, create a game. The license states that they don't want to see people creating game *creators* with the software. But the license refers to 'game creation' and 'level editor' as the same thing. Riker 9 is certainly not a level editor, redering it not game creation software, either. The fact is that FPSC is the level editor. It is the game creation software. An engine, whether it be FPSC's, Doom3's or HL2's, is not game creation software by itself. Simple as that. The idea of the license stating this is simple - they do not want someone creating a second FPSC (EDITOR-wise) and selling it for profit. In no way does it even properly IMPLY that you cannot distribute a modified, recompiled version of the engine for use in other people's FPSC games. There really is no reason for it, either. You can have your opinion on the matter, but my opinion is that you are breaking the license down into small parts, of which do not relate to the main idea of it. Just my opinion, though. I very much suggest that someone email Lee directly with the question. I will not, since I only just joined the debate. However, someone really needs to settle this whole thing out, and it seems that TGC will not be replying in this thread.


Resident Evil Remake is teh fergin' best!
Vlad
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Posted: 24th Oct 2005 13:22
Conjured, you are hereby invited to visit me in Portugal for some cool vacations on our wondeful beachs and countrysides. Chill out mate or write a mail to TGC to know what they are thinking about. But you are defenitely taking it too seriously.

V
Evil stick
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Posted: 24th Oct 2005 13:56
Quote: "Question: Well, if it is used to create games, then isn't it "Game Creation Software"
Answer: YES. That answer should be quite obvious."


Answer: NO. FPSC is the "level editor" and "game creation" software.

I ALWAYS have flame proof jacket...just in case...and a shotgun. If you want any, just ask!

We are all nice,except for that one who's name starts in a m and ends in erranvo.
Evil stick
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Posted: 24th Oct 2005 14:03
Well, nom it isn't FPSC, it's part, but anyway, I KNOW THAT.

I ALWAYS have flame proof jacket...just in case...and a shotgun. If you want any, just ask!

We are all nice,except for that one who's name starts in a m and ends in erranvo.
Jiffy
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Posted: 24th Oct 2005 14:36 Edited at: 24th Oct 2005 14:47
Look, I'm emailing Lee. I will ask if he can post here. I can't take this anymore ! Although I realise I used OR instead of AND, I think that TGC would have stated directly that modified code cannot be disributed. They did not. Anyway, we will find out soon enough.

EDIT: I just sent Lee an e-mail, asking if he could reply on this thread (I actually think I may have accidentely sent two ).


Resident Evil Remake is teh fergin' best!
Storm 6000
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Posted: 24th Oct 2005 16:34
Conjured Entertainment il repeat go away you are the only person that has that opinion so just leave we dont want your advice we have heard what you have to say and we dont want to hear it anymore get the message we dont want you on this board anymore and at the very least keep the hell away from it until TGC have had chance to tell you that your wrong, ok "friend"

Thanks
Adam
Airslide
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Posted: 24th Oct 2005 17:16
Agreed. This post is for Riker9, not debating. Now, if this arguing would stop, I have a question!!!

Cellblock, is the allys you mentioned earlier in the thread controled by new script commands? Or stuff in the ini file?

Work Hard. Do Your Best. Share The Glory. Do It Again.
Richard Davey
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Posted: 24th Oct 2005 19:29
Lee asked me to reply to this thread and clear things up somewhat. So this is the official TGC statement regarding this matter. We will not enter into discussion about this response, it is what it is.

We released the source code to the FPS Creator Game Engine to encourage people to modify it, rip it apart, recompile it and generally do whatever they wanted with it.

The one and only restriction we placed upon it was that you may not take any part of the source code and use it in a standalone "game making" application (wether that application was free or commercial).

If the modifications you make to the source mean that in order to benefit from them a user would need to own FPS Creator then that is another matter altogether. You are not in violation of the license in this case, because quite clearly you've not built a level editing / game making package with our code.

There seems to be some confusion about the fact that by releasing the game engine source that means there won't be an FPSC 2. I don't know where this misgiving stems from, but let's stop it now. The core of FPS Creator, the part that makes it unique and makes it sell, is the editor. We never released the source to the editor (and we probably never will). The source you have is the source to the game engine. Nothing more.

We are counting on the fact that people will make changes to the game engine, that they'll take it in directions we never even considered while building it. From the very first post in this thread it was clear the author of the Riker9 project appreciated this fact, and the limitations. It says quite clearly:

Quote: "Riker 9 is a new build of FPSC with fixes, improvements, and other odds and ends to make the FPSC even a better product than it already is. Riker 9 is NOT a replacement for the FPSC program, for the GUI interface of the FPSC will NOT change, only the EXE that is built when you compile the game."


This, in a nutshell, is a perfect example of what the license allows, and shows the author understands exactly what we were saying all along. The features he wishes to add "save game, load game, land mines, etc" all sound fine to us, and is exactly the sort of thing we were hoping someone would do with the source.

Someone at the start of this thread asked:

Quote: "The question then becomes: why wasn't the code related to the editor separated from the game engine's one in the first place? Reducing then the game-exe file size ..."


Well, maybe that is something you can do? It would not affect the license however, and the license wasn't written to reflect some of the editor handles still remaining either. It was written to say "make whatever you like with this source to expand FPSC further, but don't make anything that could be classed as "competition" to our product".

If all you are doing is enhancing it, then you've nothing to worry about.

People don't quit playing because they grow old.
They grow old because they quit playing.
Lon
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Posted: 24th Oct 2005 20:10
Thanks Rick and Lee for clearing that up. Lets make some games now.

Lon
SoulMan
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Posted: 24th Oct 2005 20:15
SoulMan -> Pokes his head into the room.
Hey where can I get the source code for the engine?
Also, I've had this crazy idea to port it to C++ using DarkSDK. Would I be permitted to do so?
SoulMan

This is as backwards as is This
Storm 6000
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Posted: 24th Oct 2005 20:38
ok thanks alot rich now lets get back on topic this about riker 9 and now we have proven to our intelligent "friend" Conjured Entertainment that he knows about as much about licences as my nan knows bout computers, hopfully we will hear how its going from cellbloc soon

Thanks
Adam
Lon
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Posted: 24th Oct 2005 21:03
Soulman! Hows it going? Refer to this thread here.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=62679&b=15

Lon
BULLSHOCK 2
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Posted: 24th Oct 2005 21:27
2 words....


BROKE YOU....


thanks rich....

Richard Davey
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Posted: 24th Oct 2005 21:47
Quote: "ok thanks alot rich now lets get back on topic this about riker 9 and now we have proven to our intelligent "friend" Conjured Entertainment that he knows about as much about licences as my nan knows bout computers, hopfully we will hear how its going from cellbloc soon"


I am going to lock this thread and I suggest a new one is started that can focus on Riker 9 and not license arguments.

I also am locking it because I don't think it's fair for Conjured Ent. to have to read various "nah nah" posts, which really don't help matters (or I have to confess sound very mature!). He misinterpretated the license and read far deeper into it than was ever intended, it's not a crime, it doesn't need further chastising, so let's keep this topic closed here.

Cheers,

Rich

People don't quit playing because they grow old.
They grow old because they quit playing.

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