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Dark Physics & Dark A.I. & Dark Dynamix / Dark Physics Update

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Mike Johnson
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2006 18:55
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As is to be expected with such a large piece of software there is going to be certain problems found with commands, documentation etc. Over the next few days I will be looking into this and we can prepare an update.

It will help if we can compile a list of the following:

* have you come across anything that isn't working correctly?

* have you noticed any errors in the documentation?

* is there any specific data you might like access to or perhaps you need more control over something? we can add new commands in to handle this where possible
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Habatar
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2006 19:18 Edited at: 7th Aug 2006 11:42
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A small error in the documentation. In "Tutorials -> Fixed Joint".
The code are:

And should be:


Only are wrong in the Documentation, in the Projects folder are OK.

Another error. Probably has been posted yet, but..

Is:

This code never ends, seem to be a problem whit "phy get joint exist" that never return 0.

I only find this issues yet.

Thanks Mike.

MIKE EDIT - code listing in documentation is now corrected, joint command now returns correct value

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Freddy 007
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2006 19:22 Edited at: 7th Aug 2006 11:45
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I know that you know about this, but it would be nicer to have every problem in one thread.

This is reagarding the Collision Info commands, as they are not working: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=85511&b=30

EDIT : Oh, and I think a lot of people would like you to have a look at this too(regarding character controllers) : http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=85547&b=30

MIKE EDIT - collision info updated in documentation


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Fallout
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2006 19:27 Edited at: 7th Aug 2006 12:51
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As a reminder:

1. Need to be able to determine if an object is dynamic or static to avoid crashes when applying forces. e.g. phy get rigid body dynamic(obj) : returns 1 if dynamic, 0 if static

2. phy get ray cast distance() seems to always return 0

Edit: Actually, all ray cast commands return 0, with the exception of get hit and get object. Follow the link below for an example.

So all these commands appear not to work:

phy get ray cast hit point x
phy get ray cast hit point y
phy get ray cast hit point z
phy get ray cast hit normal x
phy get ray cast hit normal y
phy get ray cast hit normal z
phy get ray cast distance

`Not sure about these two as the object I was testing was not textured
phy get ray cast tu
phy get ray cast tv

Reference thread http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=85650&b=30

MIKE EDIT - added new command phy get rigid body dynamic, ray cast commands updated

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JerBil
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2006 20:37 Edited at: 7th Aug 2006 12:58
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In documentation. Is this the right order?

Rigid Body>Properties>phy set rigid body linear velocity
.
.
.
.
Parameters

This command does not need any parameters.

Returns

phy set rigid body linear velocity ID, x#, y#, z#

MIKE EDIT: this page has now been corrected

Ad Astra Per Asper
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monotonic
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2006 23:50 Edited at: 7th Aug 2006 13:59
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This one is a bit strange, I have looked through the doc's for any commands that relate to a bottoming out of collision detection, like when an object goes below a certain height it doesn't get checked for collisions anymore to no avail.

What the problem is, I have a terrain with a deep valley which goes well below 0.0 on the Y axis and the collision works fine to a certain height but after an object goes beyond that threshold the spheres just fall through the ground.

I have attached a project demonstrating this, in the code if you run the project as is it will load a flat terrain and all spheres come to rest on the terrain as expected, but if you comment out line 15 and uncomment line 17 it will load a map with a valley in which will show you what I mean.

Is this a bug or is there a command/setting that needs to be set to lower this threshold?

EDIT: I have enabled debugging in the physics, and loaded the physics debugger and the terrain seems to be intact.

The map was created in 3DWS v5.9

MIKE EDIT: changed default settings for terrain to increase range, your demo works fine now, use phy set rigid body terrain extent to adjust the level, it is now -1024 by default

I know the voices aren't real, but they have good ideas!

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Fallout
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Posted: 4th Aug 2006 00:29 Edited at: 7th Aug 2006 15:09
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I didn't look at your demo monotonic, but are you spheres travelling really fast by the time they get to the bottom of the valley. If so, they might just be passing straight through the floor due to their speed. Have a look at the continous collision detection commands and information in the help files. I too have had spheres flying through other objects because of their speed (and a terrain mesh would be very thin, so it is very likely to happen here), but I think Continuos Collision detection is the answer.

MIKE EDIT: update the continuous collision detection commands and provided a demo showing this feature in use

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Xarshi
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Posted: 4th Aug 2006 02:09 Edited at: 7th Aug 2006 15:09
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@fallout-continuous collision detection didn't quite work when I added it in. I actually had a problem like this,but it was with a simple block for the ground

MIKE EDIT: new demo in next version shows this working, this problem you had should be solved now

Woohoo. DP is finally released!
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monotonic
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Posted: 4th Aug 2006 02:10 Edited at: 4th Aug 2006 02:12
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I know what you mean but the spheres also do it whe they hit a good bit of terrain then roll down the hill and fall through once they hit a certain height.

EDIT: I can get round it simply by raising the terrain in the editor up so the lowest point is above 0.0 on the Y axis.

I know the voices aren't real, but they have good ideas!
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Chenak
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Posted: 4th Aug 2006 03:47 Edited at: 8th Aug 2006 11:36
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I think there needs to be more control over the character controller. The ability to move it like an object (Move up, left, right, down) and also there should be something that lets you set the size of the character controller while in the game loop (For crouching and so on)

The keywords need fixing as well, in the ide I'm only getting values such as float float integer instead of x y etc shown when a physics command is highlighted. Its a tad annoying

MIKE EDIT: extra functionality added into the character controller, keywords syntax wont be ready for the next update, going to have to be done after
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Xarshi
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Posted: 4th Aug 2006 04:56
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Quote: "I think there needs to be more control over the character controller. The ability to move it like an object (Move up, left, right, down) and also there should be something that lets you set the size of the character controller while in the game loop (For crouching and so on)"


A function to set it to jump too! Well,that and I'd like to be able to treat it as a normal rigid body every now and then,for things such as joints to be attatched to it. And the keywords,yes,that gets annoying,very annoying.

Woohoo. DP is finally released!
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Mike Johnson
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Posted: 4th Aug 2006 10:20
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Thanks for the feedback so far. Keep it all coming in

I've already started adding more into the character controller. These changes should go some way to giving you further control.
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imekon
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Posted: 4th Aug 2006 11:03
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I'm fooling around with a simple scene with a character controller, I have a ramp that lets me get out the door of a building (I know, why put a ramp in when I should adjust the controller...).

Anyway, by accident, I descovered I can climb walls. Look straight up, head to wall and up I go! Without a roof, with some difficulty I managed to get to stand on the wall itself at the top. When I added a roof, and climbed up the wall on the outside, I couldn't reach the roof, there seemed to be a barrier.

Interesting novelty effect though.

"Reality Bites"
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Mike Johnson
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Posted: 4th Aug 2006 11:09
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imekon, interesting effect you have going on there You may want to take a look at the step# and slope limit# parameters to stop that from happening. I believe the new commands going in will also permit for more flexibility and control which will help.
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imekon
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Posted: 4th Aug 2006 12:19
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I can't remember what the step setting was, but the slope is 45. I copied it from the FPS sample, so in theory I should be able to climb walls there too!

"Reality Bites"
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monotonic
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Posted: 4th Aug 2006 13:23
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imekon

This may be a stupid question but have you setup up the normals for the map?

I know the voices aren't real, but they have good ideas!
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imekon
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Posted: 4th Aug 2006 15:30
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I don't know - the scene was created with 3D World Studio and exported as a DBO file.

"Reality Bites"
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monotonic
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Posted: 4th Aug 2006 16:26 Edited at: 9th Aug 2006 16:11
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Mike what would be nice if its possible is to be able to set the suspension properties for each individual wheel instead of the whole vehicle, this would come in handy for racing Sim's where the player can tweak the setup of their ride, i.e. softer suspension on the rear wheels would cause the vehicle to roll more on the back-end, good for drifting.

MIKE EDIT - new commands added allowing extra control

I know the voices aren't real, but they have good ideas!
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Xarshi
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Posted: 4th Aug 2006 18:46 Edited at: 4th Aug 2006 20:52
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@imekon - If its in first person view,make sure your not rotating the character controller on the x-axis. I had this problem for a bit until I realised this. This will also stop you from going extremely slow when looking down

I also have another idea,making it so you can save any rigid body to a file. That would be very helpful

Woohoo. DP is finally released!
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imekon
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Posted: 5th Aug 2006 08:40 Edited at: 5th Aug 2006 08:43
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Interesting... if a dynamic object is moving, and you move into it with the character controller, sometimes the other object goes flying away from you - I'm guessing its motion caused it to bump into you and it rebounded?

This is something I'm fooling around with, up 500 different shaped boxes all falling from the sky. You can climb across them and onto the tilted shelf, and watch them as they fall on you... round about 400 objects, the frame rate drops to 40 on my machine (Athlon 2200+ with GeForce 6600).

"Reality Bites"

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HowDo
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Posted: 5th Aug 2006 11:20 Edited at: 10th Aug 2006 10:46
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Just a spelling difference.
Quote: "
docs
phy set continous cd value#
"


Quote: "
keywordsDP
PHY SET CONTINUOUS CD
"


If you not see it extra U

MIKE EDIT - fixed

I'm not getting you down am I, Ho Look! another fancy Door?
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Fallout
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Posted: 5th Aug 2006 11:32 Edited at: 5th Aug 2006 11:36
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Character Controller Suggestions

Actually, having been using the character controllers a lot I'd like to see a function allowing you to set a maximum force they can exert, or some method of preventing them automatically moving everything.

At the moment character controllers can't move anything, unless that object is already moving and then they can move anything of any mass. So I'm pretty sure if I had a tiny character controller run into a million ton boulder, as long as that boulder was already rolling towards him, he'd knock it out the way easily. It'd also be nice to have rigid bodies move the character controller (which they can't seem to do at the moment).

Basically I'd like to see:
- Character controllers automatically push objects without having to manually exert forces. This would be based on their mass/speed so the character controller wouldn't continue to move at the same speed as it is pushing an object, it would decelerate.

- Character controllers can be pushed by other rigid bodies, so if my massive steel door is trying to close it'll push my character along rather than my character being able to stop it.

- Character controllers can move objects with regard to their mass/speed so my little character controller can't push my steel door with a huge mass.

Basically it'd be nice to see them act just like other rigid bodies, with the exception of them staying upright and having the slope and step functions. Not saying this is easy, it'd just be nice. I'd imagine this would be modelled with internal velocity data that is separate to the velocity you apply via DB. So a catapult can throw my little dude into the air, changing its internal velocity data and my controls can just adjust this internal speed as I run about while airborne but not override it. (Much more like applying forces than setting speed I suppose).

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Neptune
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Posted: 5th Aug 2006 12:10
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Pressing F1 to get help on ragdoll commands produces an error:
eg: phy make rag doll & phy assign rag doll part.

Error: Cannot locate file
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Fallout
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Posted: 5th Aug 2006 12:18
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Same with:

phy ray cast all shapes

There is no help on it using F1. Also, everywhere it is listed it is refered to with this type of syntax:

phy ray cast all shapes x,y,z,vx,vy,vz

In INFORMATION > RAYCASTING > OVERVIEW
Also INFORMATION > TUTORIALS > RAY CASTING

Also in the final tutorial code the code itself (within the document) uses the above formatting and therefore can't compile.

Correct formatting for reference for other people who might use this command:

result = phy ray cast all shapes(x,y,z,vx,vy,vz)

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Fallout
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Posted: 5th Aug 2006 12:36 Edited at: 5th Aug 2006 13:07
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I'd also like some more power with the ray casting command. For example, I want to be able to ignore my static rigid body transparent surfaces (windows chain link fences) in line of sight ray casting. So ideally I'd be able to either ignore objects from a ray cast, or more easily specify the single object I want to check against.

A more complex idea could be to give objects a property of raycast type that the user can set when they make a rigid body. Then you can choose which types to check against when casting a ray. A more messy example, but just a few ideas. At the moment I'm having to continue to use intersect object().

Edit:
Actually a nicer idea would be simply to define 2 points, and for the raycast command to detect all collisions that occur along that ray and then be able to step through them one by one. So that'd mean something like:

numHits = phy get ray cast hit count()

And adding an index to each of the other commands such as:

phy get ray cast hit distance(c)

where c is the collision that occurs and is between 0 and the number of hits -1.

Nuclear glory did this in a similar way and it was very effective. That way you can manually ignore objects yourself from the list, apply forces to multiple objects (say you use it for a bullet penetrating multiple objects) etc. That would probably be my ideal solution for ray casting. You would have to constrain the ray between two points instead of using a vector though otherwise you could potentially have a lot of unnecessary collision data.

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UDun
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Posted: 5th Aug 2006 14:03
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I have noticed some errors in the documentation :

- Some tutorials : "auto cam off" instead of "autocam off". It's just a detail.
- Tutorial \ Spherical joints : the first loop is "2 To 10" and the second loop is "10 To 25". So two objects with the same ID cannot be created.
- Information\Rigid bodies\Using Materials : in the examples, the "Phy update" command is placed after "Sync". It's working but it's more to respect the logic in fact.

In the reference guide, is it possible to add the range for some values like the axis in "phy make... joint" ? I have understood this command when I found in the tutorials that the values must be between 0 and 1.

Finally, about the joints, like I said in another topic, if we can have some more details about local/global anchor/axis.

Thanks Mike.

Coding is dangerous for health ...
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HowDo
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Posted: 5th Aug 2006 18:56
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Mike did a search and matched keywords with docs, found more keywords than docs, the following do not have any docs.



I'm not getting you down am I, Ho Look! another fancy Door?
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Alfred
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Posted: 5th Aug 2006 21:46 Edited at: 10th Aug 2006 10:48
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Hi, I have been saving meshes using the "phy make rigid body static mesh" command and all the variations work well.




However if I try saving a terrain using "phy make rigid body static terrain" I get a "Parameter mismatch in command" error. Here´s the line of code:



Isn´t this exactly what the help file says the command needs:

phy make rigid body static terrain ID, file$

????????

By the way. Excelent expansion. I went through ALL the examples in six or seven hours. Everything is superb! Great work.

MIKE EDIT - changed the string table for terrains and test loading and saving, working well now

Hallowed are the ori.
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HowDo
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Posted: 5th Aug 2006 22:07
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put the thrid value on the end.

like so

phy make rigid body static terrain 2,"Terr.mesh",0

I'm not getting you down am I, Ho Look! another fancy Door?
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Narf The Mouse
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Posted: 5th Aug 2006 23:26
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Just a repost so it doesn't get forgotten.
Quote: " 'Vehicle.exe has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience.'

I already tried installing the drivers and reinstalling the drivers. Out of three test programs (Vehicle Arena, Ragdolls and Fire), only Fire worked, and that rather badly. It wasn't so much a fire as a faint spark. Banner doesn't work either.

Thanks for any and all help."


Cheese!

Expert Bug-Finder, Horrible at Identifying Them.
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The Nerd
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Posted: 5th Aug 2006 23:38 Edited at: 5th Aug 2006 23:55
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@Narf The Mouse:

That's strange. All the vehicle demos works here. Indeed does the banner examples. Together with all the other demos I tried(I think I've tried the most of the now)

[EDIT]:

Request for update

Oh, by the way, I don't know if this is possible, but I would like to get a little more help from the DP errors. Sometimes if it can't find a physics object all I get is that it doesn't exist... Not what line the problem occours on... Just that there is a physic object that doesn't exist. Line numbers would be useful

The error can be something like:

"Rigid Body with specefied ID does not exist"

But a line number would be great too.

[/EDIT]

SpaceBattle-Shootout
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Fallout
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Posted: 6th Aug 2006 00:09 Edited at: 10th Aug 2006 10:55
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Possible particle emitter bug or just bizarre implementation of a command.

The phy set emitter range command doesn't operate as expected. In the documentation is says you pass it minimum and maximum axis positions for the emitter to function on. However, it appears as though what you're actually passing it is minimum positions and then a range to emit across. This had me scratching my head for ages, so a change in the documentation or implementation of the command as it describes in the documentation is essential. Here you go:



Swap the phy set emitter range commands in the function around. The one set initially is implemented as per the manual. The second implementation seems to be the correct one, but is not how it is described in the manual.

MIKE EDIT - reference page corrected

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Saikoro
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Posted: 6th Aug 2006 01:27
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Not sure if this is a bug or not, but when I run Fallout's little snippet at the bottom of this thread:http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=85588&b=30

I get an error:

Dark Physics Runtime Error
PhysicsSDK: WriteLock is still aquired. Procedure call skipped to avoid a deadlock!

The code worked yesterday, and today when I tried it, I got this error the first time, then it worked the second and third times, and now it won't work anymore!


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Fallout
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Posted: 6th Aug 2006 14:27 Edited at: 10th Aug 2006 14:07
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phy set rigid body rotation does nothing.

MIKE EDIT - fixed

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Fallout
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Posted: 6th Aug 2006 17:32
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phy get joint exist() is knackered and always returns 1



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imekon
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Posted: 6th Aug 2006 19:21 Edited at: 10th Aug 2006 14:05
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With 300 objects, everything works as expected. With 400 objects, they don't seem to come to a rest. Instead they get the "jiggles". Nothing is affecting them, but you can see them jiggling on the spot. They never seem to come to a rest.

MIKE EDIT - this happens because of phy set auto fixed timing, use phy set timing for now.

"Reality Bites"
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Mike Johnson
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Posted: 6th Aug 2006 20:25
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imekon, maybe try adjusting the sleeping and damping properties to sort that out.
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Syncaidius
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Posted: 6th Aug 2006 20:47
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I don't know if this has been said before, but phy set vehicle wheel brake torque doesn't appear to exist in the plugin. It isn't in the keywords file and DBP doesnt even recognise the command.

I really need this command right now.

WORLD - A free World editor, capable of creating the most complex of worlds (including physics, skies, water, shaders, terrain editing and more). Best of all, it's FREE!
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Fallout
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Posted: 6th Aug 2006 21:00
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Looking forward to the full character ragdoll tutorial/demo that you mentioned might come out later on. I spent most of the day trying to set up a ragdoll today, but am stuck on the joint limits. I've not even got to the stage of turning it into a rag doll yet. It's literally a bunch of boxes connected by joints, but the boxes on either side of a joint dont collide with each other, so always end up moving inside each other for some reason. Also my attempts to impose joint limits have failed because there isn't really enough info to understand what all the parameters are.

Here's an example:

phy set sphere joint swing limit ID, value#, resitution#, hardness#

value#
the angle / position beyond which the limit is active

I assumed this meant, from its starting position, you can define a maximum angle for it along the swing axis, to swing out. Though setting this to 0 doesn't prevent movement. It snaps the joint to a completely different place. In fact, I'm now under the suspicion that joints aren't defaulted to 0,0,0 rotation or anything like that when you set them up, because putting in low values into rotation limits causes them to snap around into different positions at the start.

I'm also deeply confused by this info in Revolute joints, which I thought might apply to all joint limit/rotation settings:
Quote: "
Limitations of Revolute Joint Limits

It is not possible to specify certain limit configurations without rotating the joint axes due to the restrictions on the values of low and high. For example: (piccy)
To achieve this configuration it is necessary to rotate the joint anti clockwise so that low is below the 180 degree line. "


But there are no joint rotation commands, nor commands to get the rotation of a joint, therefore I dont know if my joints start of in a rotation or start of at 0,0,0, nor how I would rotate them into a valid position to setup joint limits that are in a valid range, and how that would then affect their positioning.

Unfortunately, as far as I can see there are no tutorials or demo programs that make use of joint limits, so its very hard to know how to use any of these commands or if they work as they're supposed to.

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monotonic
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Posted: 6th Aug 2006 21:16
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@DBKing

That command compiles on my machine, it doesn't get highlighted but it compiles, have you tried compiling with this command?

I know the voices aren't real, but they have good ideas!
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Syncaidius
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Posted: 6th Aug 2006 22:27
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Yes I have. Heres a screenshot for you too:

WORLD - A free World editor, capable of creating the most complex of worlds (including physics, skies, water, shaders, terrain editing and more). Best of all, it's FREE!

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Syncaidius
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Posted: 6th Aug 2006 22:28 Edited at: 6th Aug 2006 22:30
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EDIT: damn, forgot to edit last post.....

WORLD - A free World editor, capable of creating the most complex of worlds (including physics, skies, water, shaders, terrain editing and more). Best of all, it's FREE!
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imekon
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Posted: 6th Aug 2006 22:32 Edited at: 6th Aug 2006 22:50
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Just checked the First Person Player demo that came with Dark Physics = yes, I can climb the walls there too! In the room with the stairs I can't climb, I walked up the wall, and stood next to the platform, then jumped off. A few issues with the character controller it seems!

"Reality Bites"
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monotonic
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Posted: 6th Aug 2006 22:35
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Yeah I mis-read your first post, where did you get that command from????
it isn't in my doc's but phy set vehicle brake torque is but doesn't highlight.

I know the voices aren't real, but they have good ideas!
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Syncaidius
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Posted: 6th Aug 2006 22:41 Edited at: 6th Aug 2006 22:50
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err... Now I've gotta be the stupidest person around...

My mistake, It does say phy set vehicle brake torque, but i've copied and pasted the syntax from the help file, which has been typed wrong.

Under the syntax heading in the phy set vehicle brake torque help page, it says phy set vehicle wheel brake torque.

Thats one documentation error for Mike to correct, thanks monotonic for pointing that out.

EDIT: monotonic, when you use phy set vehicle brake torque does the program crash out?
I can't the vehicle demonstration to run when I use this command..

WORLD - A free World editor, capable of creating the most complex of worlds (including physics, skies, water, shaders, terrain editing and more). Best of all, it's FREE!
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imekon
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Posted: 6th Aug 2006 22:52
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I tried



but I still get the jiggles. I tried a value of 10 but everything moves like they're in treacle.

I also tried



which slowed down angular movement but the jiggles are still there.

I also tried a simple sleeping function:



however that showed that zero bodies went to sleep.

"Reality Bites"
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Saikoro
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Posted: 7th Aug 2006 01:24
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Also referring back to the code Fallout made in the last post, if you raise the speed of the shot by increasing the force# variable to something more bullet-like, say, 10000, the objects pass right through the barriers as if it wasnt there. Possible collision problem.


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Mike Johnson
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Posted: 7th Aug 2006 13:05
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As I'm working my way through this list I'll edit posts and add a MIKE EDIT note so you can see the status of things.
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Fallout
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Posted: 7th Aug 2006 14:33 Edited at: 7th Aug 2006 16:48
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Mini meshes scaling bug. For some reason my 3DWS level that looks fine in DBP has some miniturized meshes in Dark Physics. The only characteristic I can think of that makes these different to other meshes is when they were imported into 3DWS they all might have had multiple limbs. Either way they display fine in DBP, and are correctly loaded into Dark Physics, they just appear to lose their scale somehow.



MIKE EDIT - the scale wasn't being taken into account on a limb basis ( instead on the object basis ), this appears to be fine now

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Mike Johnson
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Posted: 7th Aug 2006 14:57
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Fallout, can you provide me with a model to test please.
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