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Work in Progress / My Personal Map Editor

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Uncle Sam
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Location: West Coast, USA
Posted: 23rd Mar 2007 01:07
Quote: "PLEASE GIVE IT TO ME NOW!!!! LOl even 3d World Studio doesnt give that FPS (60) it gves 20 with its terrain for me.. But i can imagine you have better comp.. But you get that FPS with that amount of objects too.. So whens demo time so i can test its perfomance on my comp ?"


LOL.

Thank you. I'm working really fast so I can get the demo out as soon as possible. I can't say for sure when it'll be out...let me think of what I have left that I MUST include in order to sell this.......

1. More Vegetation
2. File browsing for saving, loading, and importing terrain.
3. A quick fix on the export so that it exports a sample project using your map for you.

That's actually pretty much it, believe it or not! There will be a lot of extra things I'll be adding, and I'll be gicing those out free for people who already own the software.

Quote: "wow, so much eye candy. you'll give us all cavities

if you want it, i could finish off this interface i was designing, and you could use it. (i don't need it now)

it's just meant to be really simple and clean looking."


That's very generous of you, and I'd probably use those, but they kind of don't match the scheme of those other buttons. Thanks anyways, I think I'll jsut be concentrating on the rest of the engine so I can get this done as soon as possible.

Quote: "Thats very amazing.



Keep up the good work.


Cheers,

-db"


Thanks, I'll be testing out your DLL soon so I can see how much faster it runs. And btw, sorry for my quick disappearance on MSN. I've been really busy lately, but finals week is FINALY over, so I can do more stuff for this.

Uncle Sam
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el zilcho
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2007 15:39
Quote: "but they kind of don't match the scheme of those other buttons"


i was actually offering to design the whole interface, because it wouldn't take long. but that's fine! just an idea..
Uncle Sam
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2007 19:29 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2007 21:37
Oh, I see. Yours look better than mine! I'd be happy to use them in the program.

Basically, I just need a load button, a tools button, and then a button for all of the different vegetation categories (including rocks, which I am going to add).

Thanks a million!

EDIT: doh, I just thought of someting. My interface system is...well...unique, and I don't think it will work. See, I use one image only for the buttons, and I set the diffuse when you put the mouse over it and when you cliock. So I can really only use one image for each button. Should make it easier for you.

Uncle Sam
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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2007 23:26
Yay! I got the instant tool working. Basically, just place four corner pieces, and it will automatically fill in the area with your currently selected plant. It works like this:

First find an empty spot:
[img][img]null[/img][/img]

Then place the corners:


Once you place the fourth one, it instantly fills it in:


Repeat this proccess to create grass:


And berry bushes:


And of course, it looks much better in first or third person view:


This is a top-down view of a larger one I made, in only about 30 seconds. Like I said, it doesn't look like this when you look at it from the ground, which is where the player will be:


Uncle Sam
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Xenocythe
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Posted: 24th Mar 2007 00:12
Thats pretty cool.

I would buy it for 7 bucks though.

-Mansoor
Uncle Sam
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Posted: 24th Mar 2007 00:38
Thanks.

Quote: "I would buy it for 7 bucks though."


Ehh......no.

I'm thinking $25.

Uncle Sam
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Roxas
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Posted: 24th Mar 2007 00:49
yea 20$-30$ is good price!



Aaron Miller
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Posted: 24th Mar 2007 02:59
Why such an odd price? $20 I think is better. If BlueGUI was more than $20 then I wouldnt have bought it.



Anyways, its your editor, your choice.



And, good job on the instant filling thing.



Cheers,

-db

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Xenocythe
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Posted: 24th Mar 2007 03:15
I know man, sell it for as much as you want, but I'm saying if I had to rate it based on price, I'd say its worth 7 buckaroos

Thats pretty good, dont get me wrong. I can rate a billion things for 50 cents on these forumns.

-Mansoor
Agent Dink
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Posted: 24th Mar 2007 04:07
Sam, all your new shots look nice Just got around to posting, but I've been following this every day, keep up the good work dude.

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Kieran
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Posted: 24th Mar 2007 07:49
im sorry but its too overpriced...


RPG Engine Work in progress!
Uncle Sam
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Posted: 24th Mar 2007 09:57 Edited at: 24th Mar 2007 09:58
Quote: "Why such an odd price? $20 I think is better. If BlueGUI was more than $20 then I wouldnt have bought it."


Quote: "im sorry but its too overpriced..."


I don't get how you can think that's too high. I am working hard on this every day, I can't give it out for peanuts. Tree Magik and Plant Life each cost 45-50$, and I'm giving you a program with many models from both, plus a complete editor with performance optimizing code, all for half the price of one of the original program, and you say it's too high. I should raise the price, if anything, and I'm certainly not lowering it!

Quote: "Sam, all your new shots look nice Just got around to posting, but I've been following this every day, keep up the good work dude."


Hey, thanks! Sorry I haven't been online, I just haven't really been in the mood I guess (that's not really an excuse, I know), but I'll see to it that I am tomorrow.

Uncle Sam
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Kieran
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Posted: 24th Mar 2007 09:59 Edited at: 24th Mar 2007 10:03
how do you seem to think that you are charging for the media packs? for all i know thats probably illegal as i read this in the lisence

"selling models in packs is illegal"

or something like that amd pricing it up for these model packs seems to be doing exactly that

also you seem to be making your editor look much better than it is with these models, forgive me if i am wrong though...

also people spend all day working on things for years and only sell them for like $20 so how can you say your little 1 month work is worth $25 compared to that?

Uncle Sam
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Posted: 24th Mar 2007 10:04 Edited at: 24th Mar 2007 10:06
Quote: "how do you seem to think that you are charging for the media packs? for all i know thats probably illegal as i read this in the lisence

"selling models in packs is illegal"

or something like that amd pricing it up for these model packs seems to be doing exactly that"


I've contacted TGC, and they gave me the ok.

Quote: "also you seem to be making your editor look much better than it is with these models, forgive me if i am wrong though..."


That is in a way PARTLY true, but the models ARE a major part of the editor. I just showed you a sequence of screenshots above of how you can instantly make a forest of any kind, isn't that proof of its functionality. Plus, there are the easy-to-navigate plant menues, and you can place one at a time if you like. Any plant in the entire level can be selected and changed. I have wind effects added. If you don't think is is functional, then go ahead and position all of your plants in DBP using "position object", and make instances over the entire map instead of using the same objects over and over again.

Quote: "also people spend all day working on things for years and only sell them for like $20 so how can you say your little 1 month work is worth $25 compared to that?"


People worked years on Tree Magik and Plant Life and sold them for $50 each.

Name me some of those programs that people spent years on and sold for $20.

Uncle Sam
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Kieran
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Posted: 24th Mar 2007 10:06
see and you have only spent 1 month as far as i know...

Uncle Sam
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Posted: 24th Mar 2007 10:09 Edited at: 24th Mar 2007 10:14
Does the amount of time matter? If Microsoft spent 1 day on Windows Vista (providing it had the same functionality), should they sell it for 5 cents?

EDIT: No offense if I am wrong, but I am guessing that you like this program, and want to buy it for the lowest price possible.

Uncle Sam
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Kieran
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Posted: 24th Mar 2007 10:20
i like it yes but no i don't want to buy it as i am creating one myself for the inferno engine along with DB user 2006+ which will have alot of functionality but sorry for sounding mean but yeah...

also microsoft didn't spend 1 day on vista....

best of luck on the editor though

Uncle Sam
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Posted: 24th Mar 2007 10:28
Quote: "i like it yes but no i don't want to buy it as i am creating one myself for the inferno engine along with DB user 2006+ which will have alot of functionality but sorry for sounding mean but yeah..."


No problemo. Good luck with that. I happened to be reading through it a minute ago and it looks interesting.

Quote: "also microsoft didn't spend 1 day on vista...."


I know, I was just trying to prove my point.

Quote: "best of luck on the editor though"


Thanks.

Uncle Sam
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Roxas
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Posted: 24th Mar 2007 10:39
Kieran its not overpriced until theres something wrong in demo then.. This is eficent and good fps-giving editor and 20$ is good price for it..



Kieran
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Posted: 24th Mar 2007 10:44
ok well ill just leave ya to it if you think thats a decent price then its fine by me, would be nice to see people but this

Aaron Miller
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Posted: 24th Mar 2007 11:38
Uncle Sam


I wasnt saying it was too high.... Though it did look that way, and I apologize for that. I was simply trying to say:

1) Why $25 and not an even $20, $30, etc, price?
2) That somethings have their price limits, dont go over yours. Not saying you reached it though.



Cheers,

-db

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 24th Mar 2007 16:36
DB User is correct. If you ever noticed people always sell things for $x9.99. This makes them look cheaper to a consumer than it really is. Even though it's just 1 penny, it's a mental thing. So, you should consider 19.99 or 24.99 because it makes it feel cheaper in price than it is. And you'll only be losing out on a penny.

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Xenocythe
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Posted: 24th Mar 2007 17:57
Until a thousand people have purchased it and you miss out on 10 bucks!

But really, Agent Dink is speaking the truth.

-Mansoor
draknir_
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Posted: 24th Mar 2007 20:09
i would buy it for $10
Aaron Miller
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Posted: 24th Mar 2007 20:45
$n9.95 sounds better to me.



Cheers,

-db

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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 24th Mar 2007 20:56 Edited at: 8th Jul 2007 08:49
Thanks for the adivce guys. Sorry DB for my incorrect reading of your post. I'm not sure I want to go up to $29.99 because a lot of people here seem to be bankrupt or something.

So, I guess I am forced to sell it for $19.99.


Quality 3D nature-scene creator for your games!
http://www.epsilonzero.com
Agent Dink
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Posted: 24th Mar 2007 22:28
Quote: "a lot of people here seem to be bankrupt or something. "


Some of us are, some are close, and most are probably under 16, so many don't have jobs. So... yeah, that leaves about maybe 20% of us who could actually buy it if we want it.

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Xenocythe
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Posted: 24th Mar 2007 23:52
Quote: "So, I guess I am forced to sell it for $19.99. "


Well if that worked...


Hey guys, I'm reading this article by this scientist. He's been studying payment of products.

He says something like 12.99 sounds alot cheaper than 19.99

-Mansoor
Uncle Sam
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Posted: 25th Mar 2007 06:31
Quote: "Some of us are, some are close, and most are probably under 16, so many don't have jobs. So... yeah, that leaves about maybe 20% of us who could actually buy it if we want it."


Lol, that's actually a good point.

Quote: "Hey guys, I'm reading this article by this scientist. He's been studying payment of products.

He says something like 12.99 sounds alot cheaper than 19.99"


You don't say!

Uncle Sam
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Darth Vader
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Posted: 25th Mar 2007 09:02
Uncle Sam you set the price for your program. This looks amazing and I think just to stick it up a few people you should charge $100! But then no-one would buy it... Hmm.....

Okay pretend I didn't say anything!
lol


Xenocythe
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Posted: 25th Mar 2007 20:34
Quote: "You don't say!"



Keep the good work up man. Can't wait to see the final.

-Mansoor
Uncle Sam
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Posted: 1st Apr 2007 03:14
Ok, back from Spring Break vacation!

Progress shall now resume...

Uncle Sam
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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 26th Apr 2007 22:22 Edited at: 26th Apr 2007 22:48
Sorry I haven't posted my progress. I've been working a lot but didn't write it down.

Basically, the program is complete! I just have to fix a couple bugs and add one more little feature I thought of. The program features 25 different plants, including grass, weeds, bushes, ferns, flowers, and trees! Ranging from spring to winter (all seasons). You can load any dbp advanced terrain and also .x or .3ds maps. The wind effects have been fixed and are applied to all plants on the map. When you export your project, it also exports a sample dbp project with the code necessary to run the vegetation (hide and show) and with wind effects, so you can get it in your games in a snap!

Stuff to do:

1. Add world scale option.
2. Fix a couple bugs.
3. Sell! (Probably this coming saturday, I hope. I will of course be providing a demo at the same time, with all the features except export and save, and all of the media (plants and trees) will be encrypted and attached to the exe.)

Quote: "Uncle Sam you set the price for your program. This looks amazing and I think just to stick it up a few people you should charge $100! But then no-one would buy it... Hmm....."


Well, I don't want the price I set to be influenced by forum members, so I will say this to everyone. $19.99 is a possible price, but I can not guarrantee it. You're just going to have to wait and see!

I have decided to call it Vegetator Professional. lol :-P



Uncle Sam
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 26th Apr 2007 22:33
Can you import custom vegetation, rocks, structures etc?

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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 26th Apr 2007 22:39 Edited at: 26th Apr 2007 22:47
Well, I was originally planning to. But I realized that if I was going to add support for that sort of thing, it would turn into a map editor. I didn't want to change it and have to make all the other stuff necessary to call a map editor a map editor. So I have decided to make it remain as a vegetating program, used only to vegetate maps for outdoor (or possible indoor) games.

As for rocks for sure I will be adding them. I'll be including them in the next update, along with more of the other categories of vegetation in the future.

I edited my post above and added in the logo.

Note that in the future, if the program sells well, I may just make a special map editor that is able to load plant maps from Vegetator Professional. Or I may combine it with this program and make it one. People would probably prefer that, because of the discount they would recieve on it if they already owned the origonal.

Uncle Sam
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thebulk71
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Posted: 26th Apr 2007 23:43
correct me if I'm wrong... but is this not just a terrain made by Strata Works on which you've instanced loads of bushes and trees from Tree magik and Plant life??? cos if it is... well... it looks good but surely isn't a major breakthrough. What features does this editor really have??? I'm intrigued

FYI i'm not trying to flame, honnest to god, i'm actually workin' on an editor myself...
Uncle Sam
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Posted: 27th Apr 2007 00:38
No problem, I understand your misunderstanding.

This is not just a strata works terrain with plants and trees loaded on it. It is a full program in which the user can choose various plants and trees, place them by simply clicking, and they select and scale, rotate, move as they like. The entire system was made using a complicated piece of code I created that optimizes performance by using the same plants and trees over and over again. In other words, as you walk, in the distance the vegetation will appear in its own rotation, scale and position, just as you placed it in the editor, but it will be in fact the same object! The purpose of this is to create a system where the user and easily draw plant maps in a visual, 3D world vegetator/editor, without having to worry about performance issues, because it is all taken care of. Plus, the program has wind effects all coded in, and when I post the demo, I think you'll like it. The whole thing has a nice GUI so you can navigate the vegetation menues (there are 25 different models and over 25 textures right now), switch tool modes (free mode allows you to place individual plants or trees, and the field tool lets you set a rectangular area, which is then automatically filled in with the vegetation you currently have selected from the menu. It is used to create instant forests.). You can click export, save, load, new map, etc. You can load .x or .3ds models if you have cartography shop or something else, or you can load an advanced terrain. The one you see is simply a quick one I made and was then automatically loaded into my program.

So, in one, short statement, what does this program do? It does just this:

Vegetator Professional 1 is a powerful tool for game makers that allow them to "paint" the life onto their maps (which they can easily load into the program and scale), and then export, along with the media required and the optimizing code and wind effects (all three of which are included in the editor itself).

Uncle Sam
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The ARRAYinator
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Posted: 27th Apr 2007 01:39 Edited at: 27th Apr 2007 01:39
Nice work! This is exactly the kind of foliage placement my editor needs,lol. If I wasent working on an editor I would buy it,lol. keep it up!



thebulk71
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Posted: 27th Apr 2007 15:47
I see what you mean... one question: How do you intend to handle your foliage placing and wind code in the users seperate dark basic projects? cos you can't distribute functions or snippets... is there a dll planned?

Also... for your trees and stuff you should implement an LOD "2D" version for the distant ones (like in stalker or oblivion)...

although this project is decent, it isn't worth 25bucks... This can easily be made with an array and some elbow juice. So honnestly, sell it cheaper or not at all (in which case people should stop being lazy and buying every plugin they can find).
Uncle Sam
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Posted: 27th Apr 2007 21:01
Um...honestly, I'd like to see you try it. I can't believe you have the nerve to come online and post a rude message like that when you know nothing of the project except what it does. You've never even used it. Plus, your "location" further proves your maturity....

Quote: "takin a poop"


...or should I say lack thereof....

If this is sooooo easy, I challange you to do the same. I've worked long and hard on this project, it's over 1600 lines of code, it does everything it needs to do. As for not being worth $25, I plan to possibly raise it higher than that. Possibly. And if anything would make me raise it higher, it's a response like yours.

Quote: "How do you intend to handle your foliage placing and wind code in the users seperate dark basic projects? cos you can't distribute functions or snippets... is there a dll planned?"


As I said above, when you export your map, it also exports a sample dbp project (the code) which you can open and compile to test it. If they want to use it in their games, all they have to do is scopy and paste, which I will makeeasy using comments in the code.

Quote: "How do you intend to handle your foliage placing and wind code in the users seperate dark basic projects? cos you can't distribute functions or snippets... is there a dll planned?"


As I've already said, there is an extremely low poly and low resolution version of the trees that automatically replace the high poly ones as you move farther from them.

Quote: "This can easily be made with an array and some elbow juice."


Sorry, I just find that so funny, and, well, stupid.

Uncle Sam
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thebulk71
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Posted: 27th Apr 2007 22:35
ok ok... no more being rude... I take it that there is more to this project than meets the eye... cos I read through the posts and nothing seems to make the real quality of the product stand out. I expect a demo to change my views...

Also, I am always kind of an ass when it comes to forums, cos there are just way too many noobs who make useless stuff and think it's the next 3Ds max...

I sure do hope you prove me wrong... and good luck with the rest.
thebulk71
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Posted: 27th Apr 2007 22:38
Oh... and by the way... using an array to store foliage location and orientation, combined with a simple squareroot distance calculation algorithm could easily work for placing instances, etc... I know cos I already did it years ago... but no offense
Shadow heart
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Posted: 27th Apr 2007 22:42
nice... lool look s good)

to the ones thats trapped inside of you, this is it!!
Agent Dink
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Posted: 27th Apr 2007 23:12
Before you get to heavily into advertisement Sam, Breathe has an E at the end. Look at your Vegetator Professional picture

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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 27th Apr 2007 23:55 Edited at: 27th Apr 2007 23:56
Doh....

Quote: "nice... lool look s good)"


Thanks.

Quote: "ok ok... no more being rude... I take it that there is more to this project than meets the eye... cos I read through the posts and nothing seems to make the real quality of the product stand out. I expect a demo to change my views...

Also, I am always kind of an ass when it comes to forums, cos there are just way too many noobs who make useless stuff and think it's the next 3Ds max...

I sure do hope you prove me wrong... and good luck with the rest."


Well, thanks. You could have kind of....held back instead of hijacking my thread.

Quote: "Oh... and by the way... using an array to store foliage location and orientation, combined with a simple squareroot distance calculation algorithm could easily work for placing instances, etc... I know cos I already did it years ago... but no offense"


SHOW ME.

Uncle Sam
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Hayer
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Posted: 28th Apr 2007 08:19
He can't... because he lied so it will take a while before he answers and that will be about 1-2months, the time he would use to write a mapeditor..

Nice mapeditor

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Contact me at cpu1400@msn or msn (peder.husom@broadpark.no)!
thebulk71
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Posted: 28th Apr 2007 14:08
ok... i can\'t be bothered to respond to this anymore...

this morning I chucked togethor a quick example of using an array for foliage placing... the clipping distance is small and I couldn\'t be bothered to make it any smoother. However, this example took half an hour... so say it\'s crap, I still prove a point (despite it being worthless and irrelevant)... example here http://www.mediafire.com/?02jyexynfoj

otherwise... well, I think that if your system does work smoothly and all, well... it rocks, and deserves credit. But don\'t go pricing stuff too high for the love of god.

all the best... Thebulk (yes, i know... assh*les can be nice)
jasonhtml
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Location: OC, California, USA
Posted: 28th Apr 2007 17:55
Quote: "ok... i can\'t be bothered to respond to this anymore... "


lol, figures

Uncle Sam
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Posted: 28th Apr 2007 20:55 Edited at: 28th Apr 2007 20:56
Quote: "Nice mapeditor"


Thanks.

Quote: "this morning I chucked togethor a quick example of using an array for foliage placing... the clipping distance is small and I couldn't be bothered to make it any smoother. However, this example took half an hour... so say it's crap, I still prove a point (despite it being worthless and irrelevant)..."


I'm sorry, but you didn't prove your point. You're point is that it's easy to setup a system like mine? Well, you'r system didn't work at all. I'd walk away and the trees would disappear, and then I'd walk close, and they wouldn't show up again, until I got really close, then a whole bunch of trees would just pop up right in my face. It didn't work at all like mine, so it can't even be considered an example of it.

Plus, you're forgetting one little thing. You have a bunch of trees already preloaded and positioned in your world. In my editor, the user can simply click to place a plant or tree, and it instantly becomes part of the system and hides and shows, while animating with wind effects. Plus, for all of the plants except the trees so far, I have coded the system so that it will create each plant, up to a certain point, as you click, in order to raise performance.

Another thing is that your system is completely different from mine. You're system hides and shows the trees. Well, what if you had a whole map covered with trees. Imagine the number of instances! My system uses the same, few tree objects for the whole map. So, if a user were to place a tree of one kind at one end of the map, then place the same tree at the other end, and each one were to have its own rotation and scale, if he were to walk to either tree, he would be seeing the exact same dbpro object without knowing it. Thus, only one high-poly tree would be loaded, not two.

It was a nice effort, I'll give you that. But it is absolutely nothing like mine. You'll just have to see the demo know what I mean. My suggestion to you is, think before you post. If you've never tried a project, don't comment on its core system and say it's easy to create, because you haven't even see it in action, save for a static .screenshot. Then we can avoid arguements like this one that did not need to be created.

Quote: "otherwise... well, I think that if your system does work smoothly and all, well... it rocks, and deserves credit. But don't go pricing stuff too high for the love of god."


Thanks, but I hardly think I'm over-pricing it as of now. Not only do people get the whole system with saving, loading, exporting their maps (which, along with the editor itself, is plenty off functionality to vegetate their maps with ease), but they get 25 models (plus the texture they get too!) from Tree Magic and Plant Life, both of which, when I got them, cost about $75.

Please don't jump to conclusions next time and don't be so quick to judge.

Uncle Sam
Nvidia Geforce 7950GT 512MB PCIEx, 2.66 GHZ Pentium 4 proccessor, 1GB RAM
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TEH_CODERER
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Location: Right behind you!
Posted: 29th Apr 2007 15:25
Well this does look incredibly pretty and useful to some people but it sounds like the system you are using is identical to the one I added to my level editor in the best part of and hour or two. Again, no offense or anything. It is a very good system and thats why I added it to mine. I'm sure a lot of people who are starting out or haven't mastered coding yet will find it very helpful.

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