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Work in Progress / [LOCKED] 3D Character Maker - LOCKED (new thread soon)

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Darth Vader
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Posted: 29th Apr 2009 10:14
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Ron just to let you know, my WIP is currently waiting on this excellent looking program you've made. Whenever you release it I'll be buying it!

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Duffer
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Posted: 9th May 2009 13:33 Edited at: 9th May 2009 13:36
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@ Ron,

Sorry MrChivvyAlong (again). How goes it?>

[edit] is it me or is your piccy of the chap on the right (24/10/08) a Mr Gumby (Monty Python), the early years? he is absolutely crying out for a tied hanky on his head...

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
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Duffer
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Posted: 11th May 2009 15:15
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p-ping

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lampsrus
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Posted: 12th May 2009 00:51
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will this work with fpsc as well? If it does then I got all of my (families) monies for you!

Don't ask about my forum name. LONG story.
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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 12th May 2009 16:41 Edited at: 12th May 2009 16:43
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Update:
As I posted last time, I've been BUSY! But, I have still been working on things as much as I can. As part of the authentication system, I had to finally decide how the media would be packaged. It is a tricky thing that is rooted deep into all aspects of the project. The good news is that this part is now almost complete and is also pretty simple from an end-users perspective. Each media pack will be it's own single file. The app pulls out the media from each pack as needed. It is working pretty good.

I still have to sort out how to do the actual authentication. I really don't want to use any sort of on-line authentication system. I've always hated those. To me, it punishes the honest user more than it stops thieves. I do have to protect myself a bit though. I think I've figured out a way to tie exported models to a specific license. If I can get that working correctly, then I would have the ability to find out who is responsible for licence violations by the media that is exported. That license could then be excluded from any future updates to the app and/or media. I'd welcome any thoughts/ideas about this! Software authentication is ALWAYS a touchy, complicated, messy pain in the butt!

EDIT:
Quote: "will this work with fpsc as well? If it does then I got all of my (families) monies for you!"

Getting this to work with FPSC is definitely a goal. Lee offered me some help with getting this part working!


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Duffer
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Posted: 12th May 2009 20:06
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@ Ron,

Thanks for the response. Sorry for hassling - hey, at least I've raised the profile again of this WIP and hopefully more punters will buy in! No worries on timescales - just wanted an update.

Will wait eagerly for the next one.

Any further thoughts on price?

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 12th May 2009 20:15
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Duffer,
I like that you ask! I don't consider it hassling at all

Quote: "Any further thoughts on price?"


Yes. Lots of thoughts. Too many in fact. So, it is very much still undecided! LOL
I want it to be more valuable than it's cost. It will be affordable. That is all I can say right now!


a.k.a WOLF!
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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 12th May 2009 21:58
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Quote: "I want it to be more valuable than it's cost. It will be affordable."

$30-$50? It definitely looks much more valuable than that.

Cheers,

-naota

Check out my OS
Check out Buckethead
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lampsrus
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Posted: 13th May 2009 03:03
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Well let's see...Amatuer modelers get no less than $100 for a job... maybe $25-$75 for price?

Really looking forward to this!

Don't ask about my forum name. LONG story.
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gordon ramp
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Posted: 15th May 2009 08:23 Edited at: 15th May 2009 08:29
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Ron, I have always thought that the licensing of exported media is very discouraging and never bought software that went down this track. I prefer much more the idea of purchasing the software for a fee and having what I create free of further cost. I think you may shoot yourself in the foot by taking that route. Look at DBPro and so many other creation applications that are License and Royalty free. You are going to be pirated by some no matter what you do, so why not make it a pleasant all round creative experience for the honest customers, this way you will sell more copies of your product.
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Darth Vader
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Posted: 15th May 2009 10:44
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Wait a sec I might be reading this wrong. But having a license system, will the models that we export be royalty free? I think I'm just confusing myself a little!

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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 15th May 2009 13:47 Edited at: 15th May 2009 13:47
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You guys are mis-understanding me!

There will be a fee to purchase the application. There will be additional content created (both free and not-free). That is the end of the cost! The app and all of it's addons will be royalty free. I would never want to do it any other way.

There will, however, be a license agreement. Models created with this app will be allowed to be used in any game, application, movie, and other things of a similar nature. You will NOT be allowed to sell (or give away for free) models that you create with this as it would discourage others from purchasing the software. Why buy it if you can just get someone else to make the models for you?
The "authentication" stuff will tie exported models to specific licenses of the software. If I see blatant violations of the agreement or pirated versions of the software, I could prevent a license from taking part in future updates. I doubt that this would be something that I ever actually do, but the option is there.

So don't worry! It will be simple! Once you buy the software, you can populate your games with armies of exported models at no additional cost. I don't care if your game is something that no one else ever sees OR if you have the next big indie game OR if I see my models show up in professional games - there will be no extra cost!

I hope this clears things up a bit!

Ron


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draknir_
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Posted: 15th May 2009 15:13
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So if you're working with a team, every member needs a license to exchange models with each other?
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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 15th May 2009 15:33
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draknir,

That isn't my intention. I only want to prevent things like people making bunches of models and uploading them for anyone to download. In a team setting, I wouldn't be bothered if a person contributing to the software used 3DCM. Still, do you think it would be right for a person that owns 3DCM to join every project he can find and just provide character models for the project? What is he actually contributing to the project other than his license of the 3DCM?
So, to answer your question... No. Not every team member would need a license. I'll have to figure out how to word things properly in the license agreement.
Just remember: The more support I get with people purchasing this software, the more time I can justify in keeping it fresh with lots of new updates/media!

Ron


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gordon ramp
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Posted: 16th May 2009 00:56
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Ah, that's clarified things.. Look forward to the release of this program.
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Darth Vader
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Posted: 16th May 2009 04:48
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Thanks for clarifying Ron! Looking forward to the hopefully 'close' completion of this fantastic looking app!

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Duffer
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Posted: 30th May 2009 22:17
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@ Ron,

Any more by way of screenies or vids? How goes it?

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
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Krisper
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 08:31
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Probably a stupid question but is there any way something like this can be released so it can be incorporated into a dbpro program so I can choose/edit/save a character model inside my own application? Maybe a dll with a bunch of commands that I can add to my own GUI? Just wondering....
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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 17:42
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Duffer,
No new news yet. Getting there....

Krisper,
Not at this time. It may be something that I can look at in the future though. It would be really cool to make something similar that could integrate directly with FPSC games. If I can make that happen, then I could do what you are asking too.


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Duffer
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Posted: 6th Jun 2009 13:30 Edited at: 6th Jun 2009 13:50
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@ Ron,

No worries - can wait - waited a few years - can wait some more...

Not really wishing to distract you but (harking back to WolfExtra days) have you ever considered doing a single command plugin for DBPro:-

"Export Object As DirectX"

which would export a DBO 3d object to an .x 3d object file but crucially retaining all mesh, rig/limb/joint, and animation data - if anyone has a working knowledge of all this in dbo it's you.

such a plugin would sell like hot cakes at £15-£30...?

just a thought - ignore it - back to 3dcm...

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 8th Jun 2009 16:02
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Duffer,
I was working on another plugin called "MeshTools" in addtion to my other projects. It includes commands to do all kinds of things with your objects in DBpro. It gives access to vertex weights, allows you to add/delete polys and vertices and all sorts of other things. If I was ever going to write a .x exporter, I would lump it in with that plugin. I have the basic structure for a .x exporter done. I use it in 3DCM to export the characters to .x files. Currently, it is hard coded in DBpro an very specialized to the meshes that 3DCM uses. I'm not sure how much work would be involved to make it into a plugin. If it is that much in need, it is something that I could look at.

Ron


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Duffer
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Posted: 8th Jun 2009 17:25 Edited at: 8th Jun 2009 20:36
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@ Ron,

That MeshTools plugin with polygon reduction and fullblown .x export would most definitely sell like hotcakes .... do it! do it! (subject to 3dcm! )

Not many third party 3d design tools allow for proper (and accurate) import of dbo. None to my knowledge properly get everything in when importing dbo with a plugin - ultimate unwrap 3d comes the closest but even that cant import the animation (but manages the rest including limbs, rig/joints, textures)..

the export to .x command which exported out everything (within reason) to .x file would be invaluable to people developing 3d models, adding animation etc when using external software to develop...

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
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draknir_
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Posted: 8th Jun 2009 23:56
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Quote: "draknir,

That isn't my intention. I only want to prevent things like people making bunches of models and uploading them for anyone to download. In a team setting, I wouldn't be bothered if a person contributing to the software used 3DCM. Still, do you think it would be right for a person that owns 3DCM to join every project he can find and just provide character models for the project? What is he actually contributing to the project other than his license of the 3DCM?
So, to answer your question... No. Not every team member would need a license. I'll have to figure out how to word things properly in the license agreement.
Just remember: The more support I get with people purchasing this software, the more time I can justify in keeping it fresh with lots of new updates/media!

Ron"


Hi Ron,

I fully understand your concern about people churning out tons of models and providing them free of charge, that's obviously not right. But the way I envisage myself using this product for example, is with a team of artists involved (I'm a programmer) in which case I would want to pass an exported model/texture to the artist so that they could alter it to my needs. Could you accomodate this type of use?

regards,
draknir
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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 9th Jun 2009 03:54
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draknir,
I don't see a problem with that. You are the programmer. The app that the models will be used in is yours. I see nothing wrong with passing the model on to an artist to further customize. He would then send the model back to you to use in your app. He, however wouldn't be licensed to use the model for his own purposes, unless he too owned a copy of 3DCM.
As an artist, if he wanted to purchase 3DCM for his own use, he could use the models to get a good base. He could then customize them all he wants. He can put them in his own apps (even if he hired someone else to code for him). He still could not offer the models for free or for money to others though (unless the others also owned 3DCM).

I'm not sure how to word all of this in a license agreement yet. I think it is obvious what I am trying to avoid though. I definitely want to make it fair for my users.


Duffer,
I'm very interested in finishing Meshtools. I more interested in finishing 3DCM though (and you know how that goes!)
We'll see what happens. Meshtools gets worked on every once in a while when I need a break from 3DCM and want to do some hard core C++ coding. lol

Ron



Ron


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Duffer
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Posted: 11th Jun 2009 22:55
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@ Ron,

No worries. Will dutifully await the next update or screenies on 3dcm.

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lampsrus
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Posted: 16th Jun 2009 01:06
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any date where this might be done? PLEASE COME OUT SOON!!! I NEED PEDESTRIANS! AND A MAIN CHARACTER! AND A VILLAIN! AND ALLIES/ENEMIES! ETC.

Don't ask about my forum name. LONG story.
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Oolite
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Posted: 16th Jun 2009 01:39
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Just had a quick read through whats been said, leave the man alone, i'm assuming real life comes before this.

My offer still stands aswell Ron, just in case you need to spruce up the models before release.

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Darth Vader
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Posted: 16th Jun 2009 05:38
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Quote: "Just had a quick read through whats been said, leave the man alone, i'm assuming real life comes before this"
Here here!

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kordman916
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Posted: 17th Jun 2009 02:06
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Looks very nice but I'll bet it'll look better after subdivision


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1 Gig DDR2 ram,Geforce 8500 GT 512mb
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dark coder
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Posted: 17th Jun 2009 10:22
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Quote: "That isn't my intention. I only want to prevent things like people making bunches of models and uploading them for anyone to download."


What happens if someone makes a game that uses lots of character variations and someone downloads said game and redistributes these models(which contain markers to the original dev) but the original dev had nothing to do with this redistribution? At a first glance it'd look like they distributed all these models as it may be hard to track down all games people make with these models. Even if they encrypted the media or something(something you very very rarely see here) it would be possible to do, so would this method not easily lead to you hurting the wrong people?

Of course it totally depends how you implement the protection but if 2 owners or the software exported the same model then they could compare the files and find the markers right? Or even resave the model to remove them.

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Duffer
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Posted: 20th Jun 2009 12:49
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@ dark coder - what are you trying to do - put Ron off completing it.....

@ Ron, as soon as you're ready for me to test a beta or help files etc, I'm there....

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 21st Jun 2009 06:10
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Sorry guys...
I was on vacation and didn't have a chance to reply.

Quote: "Just had a quick read through whats been said, leave the man alone, i'm assuming real life comes before this."


Real life definitely does come first. I don't mind people asking how it is going though. Sometimes it bumps me into working on things even when I don't really have the time.


Quote: "What happens if someone makes a game that uses lots of character variations and someone downloads said game and redistributes these models(which contain markers to the original dev) but the original dev had nothing to do with this redistribution? At a first glance it'd look like they distributed all these models as it may be hard to track down all games people make with these models. Even if they encrypted the media or something(something you very very rarely see here) it would be possible to do, so would this method not easily lead to you hurting the wrong people?

Of course it totally depends how you implement the protection but if 2 owners or the software exported the same model then they could compare the files and find the markers right? Or even resave the model to remove them."


Dark Coder,
The intention of the system that I am putting in place more to control piracy of the software, not the models.


Quote: "Ron, as soon as you're ready for me to test a beta or help files etc, I'm there.... "

I will let you know. Now that my vacation is over, I am feeling some extra motivation to get things moving with this again!


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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2009 18:24
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Yay!
I finished all of my authorization stuff today. That really sucked to work on. I hate doing things like that (almost as much as I hate writing documentation/help files).

So, now it is on to more media.

Hopefully I will have something worthy of showing off soon.

Ron


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Clbembry
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2009 09:47
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I've been silently following this from the beginning. I will definitely buy it when it is completed. I can't model humans for my life .

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Duffer
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2009 21:01
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@ Ron,

Am I reading you correctly? If you are doing the authorisation stuff then does that mean you are actually quite close to a first release?

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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 6th Jul 2009 16:45
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Quote: "Am I reading you correctly? If you are doing the authorisation stuff then does that mean you are actually quite close to a first release?"


It is a step in that direction. It is really getting to be a matter of how much media do I want to include in the first release.


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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 8th Jul 2009 23:17
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Well...
I have been working on media again. I completely re-did the feet meshes yesterday. They were way too blocky. I'm much happier with them now. Today, I have been working on reworking the lower-body of the character. I'm much happier with how that is looking now too. I'll see if I can post some before/after shots soon.

Ron


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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 21st Jul 2009 03:51
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Work continues...
A week worth of jury duty slowed me down a bit.

I found a way to really speed up my media creation time. I have to rework some more of the base mesh to get it working right. Still, it is a short step back that will allow me to walk much faster forward.


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Duffer
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2009 19:21
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@ Ron - excellent - what kind of versatility are we going to get with the models and the various body parts and body part textures compared to what was demo'd about a year back?

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Darth Vader
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Posted: 26th Jul 2009 08:06 Edited at: 26th Jul 2009 08:11
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Ron take your time. As long as that means a higher quality product

EDIT:And as long as the proce doesn't change...

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DIABLO The Punisher
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Hello im posting to say that im looking for someone who is good at scripting and someone for mapping.
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