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Music & Sound FX / Qmidi v2 requests

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SoftMotion3D
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Posted: 8th Jul 2008 11:03 Edited at: 8th Jul 2008 12:51
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I started this thread to get requests and ideas for v2 that will be under way shortly.

V1 is basicaly done. Rudolpho is making the finishing changes to the qmidi online section (ftp site)

So v2 ideas so far:

16 track midi editing
8 track audio editing
1 track speech recognition track(computer generated speech)
Record to wav tracks directly from playback.

midi stuff:
midi sound loops for quick music generation.
the ability to make your own midi sound loops.
the ability to edit a track with proper notation.
and the ability to edit a track with the original box drawing from my earlier qmusic versions.
pan control
modulation control
volume control
sustain pedal
pitch bending
simulated tremolo effects. (volume bouncing)

wav stuff:
the ability to change speed playback
the ability to record straight to any track.
Pre made wav loops. for fast music generation.
simulated tremolo (volume bouncing)
pan control
independent volume control.

gui:
Tools for wav editing and midi tools
Online feature to upload and download content.
Easy online activation for the software
music midi loop packs for free download online.
music wav loop packs for free download online.

looking for more requested features that we may be able to do.
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da power pwnerer
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Posted: 8th Jul 2008 15:03 Edited at: 8th Jul 2008 15:04
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Support for VST(i) lol
Support for MIDI Controllers/Keyboard

I have really high expectations



-Dan


http://Freewebs.com/noobisoft
Come to Noobisoft's website today!
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Rudolpho
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Posted: 8th Jul 2008 16:11
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About midi controller support, that is already available in my midi plugin, so there shouldn't need to be any big problems adding it to QMidi.

The vst's on the other hand is pretty complicated, but I agree that it would surely be a great asset.

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chunks chunks
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Posted: 8th Jul 2008 18:57
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vst,it sure is complicated have you seen the sdk it`s mind boggling .

@ sheldon some effects would be nice eg compression ,reverb and such .

if only we could retrieve the dx sound buffer then i could add effects using direct x and dark basics audio.

I might look into it when i get mi laptop back,damn things broken again .

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Super Nova
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Posted: 10th Jul 2008 00:34
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I know I already threw this one out there but...

Midi Import

that would be so sweet.

"What I have shown you is reality. What you remember, that is the illusion."
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Rudolpho
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Posted: 10th Jul 2008 01:15 Edited at: 11th Jul 2008 16:30
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Yeah, yeah, I'll look into it...
I can't promise anything though.

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SoftMotion3D
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Posted: 10th Jul 2008 13:24
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i agree that midi import would be a very sweet asset
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SoftMotion3D
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Posted: 11th Jul 2008 11:08
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okay well this will be getting underway shortly.

I plan to have a running beta test by the end of august....Hopefully

Also i will add the ability to print score sheets for the midi portion.
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Satchmo
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Posted: 11th Jul 2008 22:50
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Here are some requests
-Automatically detect last note.
-Better instrument select(Drop down menu, file browser)
-Ability to create and load your own instruments
-Unlimited tracks, I.E. you can select a button that says "new track" and you then have a new track
-More sound effect options

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Rudolpho
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Posted: 12th Jul 2008 00:56 Edited at: 12th Jul 2008 00:57
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1.) Shouldn't be hard to do at all.

2.) I agree that the current means of selecting a patch isn't the best... Are you really up for a 128 items drop-down list though?
I for myself would think that a treeview would be the way to go; that way the instruments can even be organized into easily handled groups like "keyboard instruments", "orchestral instruments", and so on.
Great that you pointed this out

3.) This idea has visited my mind as well; I was thinking of a separate sampler that could be used in cojunction with qmidi.
I have actually made such a demo system, but it definitively needs a lot of shapeups to actually be usable (check the thread "Midi controlled sampler" in the music forum).
However, it's rather hard to come by royalty-free samples, and we can't really travel the world, recording instruments ourselves...
Therefore, it might be worth a shot to instead have an actual synthesizer application instead (which works in that you make your own sounds using some elementary sounds (oscillators) and then modify these by the means of a lot of filters).
I just began researching the possibility of writing such an application in DB today, and it might actually be possible.
I've managed to figure out how to create sine, triangle and pulse waveforms and I already have a poor but functional reverb function from my sampler attempt, so it might just be possible.
The memblock sounds also seems to be generated fairly quick and should, theoretically, be equally quick to manipulate.
This might very well be over my head though, but I think it's worth a try.

4.) If by tracks, you mean channels, then no.
16 channels per midi device is a set limit, so as long as this is supposed to be a midi editing program, we really can't do anything about that.

5.) What exactly do you mean by "sound effects"?
An effect that is applied to an already existing sound (like a filter) or just some premade soundeffects (like rain, etc.)?


Again, nice suggestions

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Satchmo
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Posted: 12th Jul 2008 04:28
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A sound filter.

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Rudolpho
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Posted: 12th Jul 2008 10:59 Edited at: 12th Jul 2008 11:00
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Ok.
Well, modifying the GM sounds with filters isn't possible, so that all depends on either manipulating the raw audio output data (that would however put any filters on everything else that is currently played back as well) or by using an own sound system.
I will attempt the latter, but again, I'm very unsure about the possibility of this (it requires very high processing speed, which a dbpro app might or might not be able to).

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 14th Jul 2008 03:48
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Here's what I'd like to see:

* "Save" and "Save As..." menu options, those would be especially nice.
* The ability to select notes, and perform the following operations


If tracks (I've not experimented with those yet) don't let you change instruments per track, then it'd be nice to be able to do so. As well as the tempo for some tracks, if possible.


Cheers,

-naota

I'm not a dictator to those that do stuff for me by will. Only those who don't.
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Rudolpho
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Posted: 14th Jul 2008 09:10
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I agree with the setting of various parameters during playback (such as tempo / instrument change, modulation, volume change, etc.)
Save (as in resave as previous filename) shouldn't need to be hard to implement either.
The stretching of the notes however might be more complicated (unless you just mean selecting a note and then moving it?), but this is really SMD_3D's department, so I cannot say for sure.

Thanks for the suggestions

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SoftMotion3D
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Posted: 14th Jul 2008 17:49
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Ah stretching notes huh?

Thats definetly possible to do..... i will look into that
And like rudolpho said....that other stuff should be easy to impliment as well.
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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 03:04
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Cool

I recently ran into a slight problem actually, and it's funny that Rudolpho mentioned it, I'm not sure if it is possible, but can you currently move notes in QMidi? If so how? Also, how do you delete notes? I don't have the internet at my house, and couldn't find any documentation for QMidi, offline, hence why I'm asking here.

Thanks.

Cheers,

-naota

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SoftMotion3D
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Posted: 16th Jul 2008 04:55 Edited at: 16th Jul 2008 05:05
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lol.... sorry dude
qmidi's help system as you found out requires an online connection.

but here ya go:

here is the qmidi help page that the program looks at.

keep in mind that it was done for a small window and may look funny in a big one.

qmidi v1 help html-------------->




http://www.jeku.com/sheldon/qmhelp.htm

edit:

I just looked and realized it says nothing about copy/paste....oops...lol

I will update it soon and it will not be dependent on having an online connection


<copy/paste>
Select the picture of scissors.

hold left mouse button and drag over notes you want selected. now that you have selected notes click the right mouse button to paste notes...if you didnt like that spot simply click in the same spot to erase the notes you just pasted.

again the help files will be redone but take a quick glance at the listed help html i posted.
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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 17th Jul 2008 02:15
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Ah, okay.

Does the MIDI system (In general) allow for echoes? If so, that'd be a useful effect for QMIDI, as well as perhaps a chorus effect. But I doubt MIDI, in general, would support such a thing. I'll have a look into it though.

Cheers,

-naota

I'm not a dictator to those that do stuff for me by will. Only those who don't.
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Rudolpho
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Posted: 17th Jul 2008 02:21
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It does not :/
Some soundcards will let you add such effects to the midi channels though.

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SoftMotion3D
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Posted: 17th Jul 2008 04:38
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You can however simulate echoes!

1.)Use the same instrument on several tracks
2.)Set all the same notes either 1 or 2 spaces apart from each track
3.)set volume levels all lower the farther down you go.

eg.

track 1:
xoxxxxx o=note:volume=100

track 2:
xxxoxxx volume=90

track 3:
xxxxxxo volume=80

and so on as much of an echoe as you want.
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Rudolpho
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Posted: 17th Jul 2008 11:50 Edited at: 17th Jul 2008 11:51
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Well, of course that is possible.
As a matter of fact, such a function could even be coded into the engine and just applied to a track; that might be a not too bad addition for version 2 as well

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chunks chunks
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Posted: 17th Jul 2008 21:33
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used to use that effect with octamed years ago , long live the amiga lol.

ps: Have you got any work for mi i need something to chew on , tottaly free as usual .


chunks

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Rudolpho
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Posted: 17th Jul 2008 21:43
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Well, I've made a not-so-fun discovery regarding the VST's...
It seems that there are some (rather fuzzy) guides on how to write a vsti plugin around the net; this is also what the sdk is for.
So that, we might be able to do if we really put an effort into it.
However, to run these plugins, one needs a hosting program (pretty obviously).
The thing is that there seems to be actually no tutorials or anything at all, whatsoever regarding this aspect.

Maybe you could try to do some deep-diving on that subject, but as said, all I found whilst searching was people asking about it on forums, which were constantly replied with that nobody seemed to know how to do it, or at least not share any information on it.

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SoftMotion3D
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Posted: 17th Jul 2008 21:51
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lol!

Chunks: is it possible to figure out how long a wav file lasts without actualy playing it.

DBP has the mem blocks that we can shoot the wav data over to... im also wondering if you understand the workings of the mem block wav memory

Cause we should be even able to get a graphic wav picture of the wav file...eg all the little spikes...

also we need to be able to recalculate the length of a wav when we change the frequency up or down.

Also i apoligize on the CT3D Project.... i should get some time this weekend to start working on that with you.

Also that wav recording plugin....maby you can figure out how to auto setup the sound card to stereo mix with the proper volume settings. That would be great for those people that are still scratching there heads on how to set it up still.


Rudolpho: Yes we can definetly code in some sort of echoe into the editor
That would be a great new feature.
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chunks chunks
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Posted: 17th Jul 2008 22:04 Edited at: 18th Jul 2008 12:35
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don`t worry about ct3d put it on backburner for now, i will look at the stuff you mentioned here .

Do you mean for time stretching without speeding up the wav ?

@rudolpho i found some source/lib to a vst host , but im afraid it`s probably a bit beyond my skills .

think i will start with the mixer thing will do a seperate plugin cause mi laptops kaputt ive lost the original recording dll source .

i will also look into retrieving db sound buffer so we can manipulate it with dsound/c++ ,ive done it before with images so hope i can do it with sound.


[edit] a bit of code to show wav memblocks.



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Rudolpho
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 01:46
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Actually, shouldn't the value beginning at position 28 be the first actual wave data in the file? (Given that the header size is supposed to be 28 bytes long).

Anyways, I think this should work for determining the duration of a wave file:


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chunks chunks
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 12:46
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nice function rudolpho ,how did you work that out?
I was trying all night to sus that.

I really need to hit the books,although ive only been programming since Jan 2nd 2007.

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Rudolpho
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 13:12 Edited at: 18th Jul 2008 13:17
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Actually I spent quite some time trying to get the wave memblocks a week or so ago, trying to make a synthesizer-like application.
It didn't go very well, but I learned some usefull things anyways (oh yeah, and I managed to make a really nice knob control! )

The wave header is 28 bytes, divided into 7 longwords:
♦ format
♦ channels (1 = mono, 2 = stereo)
♦ samples per second (per channel, that is)
♦ bytes per second (with the PCM format, which is the only one I know, this is simply samples per second * channels * 2, since each sample consists of 2 bytes)
♦ block align (I never quite got this one; always seems to be 2)
♦ bits per sample (I suppose this differs between various formats. DBPro seems only to be able to read 16 bit samples though. Also, should this change, each sample would of course not be 2 bytes, but bits per sample / 8 bytes in size).
♦ offsetSize (this seems to be how many bytes after the final header byte (28) the actual wave data starts. For homebrewed PCM waves, this is 0).

Anyways, we have a set amount of samples per second, a.
We also have the channels, b, which means that the true amount of samples per second is ab.
As well, we have the size of each sample, c (which is bits per second / 8).
We can find the size of the memblock using get memblock size(). From this value, we subtract 28 (the header) as well as the size of the possible offset to the audio data. The result, we call d

Now, to find out the duration, we simply enough carry out the following division: duration = d / (abc)

You'd think it should be easy to get a visual repressentation out of this then, but alas, it seems not to be.
I might look into that further today.


A nice knob, made using sprites

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chunks chunks
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Posted: 18th Jul 2008 21:42
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I never understood the block align either ,it was 4 on a sample i used last night .

I have heard to do a smooth visual rep you must use a fft .http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_Fourier_transformotherwise it comes out all spikey.

there is an example to do this on this forum but it never worked on my comp ,i will dig it out .

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Rudolpho
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Posted: 20th Jul 2008 15:11
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Ah, I see.
That Fourier transformation looks rather complex...

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SoftMotion3D
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2008 19:29
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Registration will now have to be implimented due to abuse on the Qmidi_Online section of v1!
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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 4th Aug 2008 01:34
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One more request, if I may:

* Allow the ability to "record" MIDI data using the keyboard (Not specifically a MIDI keyboard -- not all of us can afford those). Ex: you'd hit a button in the interface to start the "recording" and then you press keys on the keyboard to perform the notes. The bottom-left alphabetical key ('Z') would be the lowest note. And the top-right alphabetical key ('P') would be the highest note. As you press the keys they would get recorded to the track.

This feature would be very useful for me as I often find it difficult to maintain a beat or pattern only by pointing/clicking. Take for example the Super Mario Bros. theme. If one wanted to recreate that theme they may have a difficult time because they know it usually only by ear. So to recreate it they would have to hit the beats accordingly.

Anyways, when they're done recording they could hit another button or just hit the ENTER (return) key.

Cheers,

-naota

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SoftMotion3D
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Posted: 4th Aug 2008 03:49
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sounds like a good idea..... i will look into it
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Rudolpho
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Posted: 4th Aug 2008 10:32
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@Aaron: do you mean recording it with timestamps then (I suppose you do), or just inputting notes of a given duration using the keyboard instead of the mouse?

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 5th Aug 2008 02:39
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@Rudolpho
I'm not sure what you meant by timestamps (I'm unfamiliar with most forms of audio 'grammer'). I just mean like playing your songs by hand (with the keyboard) and each note you hit goes through and is recorded. <Trying to explain better>

Okay, so lets say you hit the "Keyboard Record" button. The little green line that says where the note is starts to move at the tempo specified earlier (In the TEMPO edit (edits are "text box" controls)). Each key you hit would place the corresponding note where the green line is. In doing this you could simulate actually playing an instrument (kind of) in real time. And then, when you're done and hit the "Stop Keyboard Record" button you can play back what you just played, or perhaps alter it with the mouse just as you would otherwise.

Anyways, that's what I meant.

Cheers,

-naota

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Rudolpho
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Posted: 5th Aug 2008 10:09
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Yeah, that's what timestamps are about (storing the time when an event happens and when it ends; in this case starting a note whenever you press a key and release it again when you release the key).
If you don't use timestamps, you won't do any "realtime" recording but rather just use your keyboard instead of the mouse to draw notes of the selected duration.

You should be aware that even the really big commercial programs have some problems making that sort of recording float by smoothly though. But a somewhat limited, simpler edition should hopefully be achievable (I should also say that it would be MUCH easier if the note-drawing was bar based instead of displaying actual notes when it comes to this kind of thing; the bar would just start and stop at the positions when the key was pressed /released then. Otherwise, we'd need a huge arsenal of various duration notes to paste into the editor).

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chunks chunks
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Posted: 5th Aug 2008 21:10
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Hey just wait till they start asking for quantization and stuff like that.

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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 6th Aug 2008 02:25
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@Rudolpho
Ah, well I don't think it would be that difficult would it? It'd basically log each key that's pressed and at one time then it could "flush" them out to the editor as the notes - meanwhile playing the sounds of it so you can hear it while you play.

Cheers,

-naota

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SoftMotion3D
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Posted: 6th Aug 2008 04:12
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well the hardest part is using the darkbasic commands.....it would be easy to detect one key press but multiple is a bit tuffer.....not saying that it cant be done.
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Rudolpho
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Posted: 6th Aug 2008 11:26
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Yeah, well, as chunks said, it was actually the quantizising part I was concerned about - no matter how exactly you play, there will always be a slight delay in between you pressing the keys and the program getting around to update it.

But as said, it shouldn't be all that hard to "cheat" a bit and just round everything to the closest 64:th note or so.
The results might then not be all that correct of course (but as said, if we're going to go through every possible note / tied note combination / multiple dotted notes and what not, the programming den would likely turn into an hibernation nest )

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SoftMotion3D
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Posted: 7th Aug 2008 06:36 Edited at: 7th Aug 2008 06:39
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Well here is the first screen shot (in the making of v2)

missing all functionality but to give everyone a little sneek peak



Any thoughts?

Its going to have free editing over all tracks and can be wav or midi in any spot on a track

scroll bars will be in there as well.

When it comes to editing a midi spot you will get a full screen of editing for one track. This is just the main view.

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chunks chunks
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Posted: 7th Aug 2008 11:16
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looking good .

is that just a pic or have you mastered how to display a waveform ?

It would be nice to move the wav to any position + edit it like in magix ,you know play it fron different positions in the sample .

well done

chunks chunks

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Rudolpho
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Posted: 7th Aug 2008 12:06 Edited at: 7th Aug 2008 18:04
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Looks cool

By the way Sheldon, it's not hard to detect multiple keypresses in DBPro.
Just use the keystate command:


Edit: I only see ten tracks in that screenshot though (I guess that's only because it's just a demo pic).

Also, in case you haven't "mastered" the waveform image generation, I think that I actually have it figured out by now

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chunks chunks
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Posted: 7th Aug 2008 18:46
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did ya need to use fft ?

I`ve been working on the mixer api ,eg master volume control ,input / output peak meter, source selection / rec level .

although it`s tempting to just call soundvol32.exe (in xp) and whatever it is in vista .


Ive been woking on this because sheldon wanted to the users to be able to set the input source / level .

should have a beta dll by the weekend.


@sheldon i will probably design a recording dialog box with blue then you can implement that into the code.

chunks

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SoftMotion3D
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Posted: 7th Aug 2008 19:10 Edited at: 7th Aug 2008 19:18
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ok sounds good.

for the wav graphics form.... i have not broken it yet....but im getting close.

if there was some simple volume controls that you can make for your dll that would rock. Also to be able to set what its recording from.


All of the tools for this editor will be in seperate windows. the only found tools on the main app page will be mute boxes and track control options. Whats realy gunna be neat is that you will be able to drag midi in with wavs anywhere in the spaces on any track.

it should be good


Oh ! i also believe that recording to wav will be the main saving option other then its native format. Midi will not be possible when you are mixing wav sounds in with it. Midi export will still work but only if its all midi sound playback.

Oh also i want to be able to select a track to record while playing other tracks
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chunks chunks
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Posted: 7th Aug 2008 19:22
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are ya using blue for the windows ?

sheldon could you please send me the rec dll i havent got it no more , also the the last version i sent of ct3d if ya have it .

chunks

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Rudolpho
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Posted: 7th Aug 2008 20:10
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No fft needed; I think it looks pretty good still so.
Here's a sample:
This image was generated by a "professional" audio editing program:


And this was generated by DBPro:


As you can see, everything is the same, even if my image might look a bit lossier. (I'm thinkering with possible ways to solve that, though).
And never mind the fact that my image says it's 88.2Khz; that's just because there's two 44.1KHz channels (my bad).

It sounds like the progress is coming along nicely on this

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chunks chunks
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Posted: 7th Aug 2008 20:30
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nice work rudolpho well done.

could i take a peek at the code ,would like to see how it`s done to learn from .


How quick did it draw to the screen , might be worth looking into cloggys dll to draw to the screen much faster .

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SoftMotion3D
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Posted: 8th Aug 2008 05:48
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Just a tad bit of news for everyone

Qmidi v2 will be backward compatible with all my music apps i have ever made

I decided some elements from the old qmusic programs could be useful to impliment into qmidi.

The thought of being able to make digital instruments was an idea that will be from qmusic vr 2.0. Id like that in there

Then from v3 it has a different type of instrument files....also thought they could be usefull.

then qmidi vr 1.0 will load of coarse ...and then its new format.

This opens up the posibilities to making real instrument sound files that you can then compose with.
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Rudolpho
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Posted: 8th Aug 2008 13:04
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@Chunks: Just let me optimize it a bit first (I've been using the blueGui canvases with drawPoint; much quicker than dot, but it still takes about two or three seconds per megabyte of data).
I'm planning on just using a memblock image; that's ought to be fairly quicker.

@Sheldon: Sounds good.

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