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DarkBASIC Discussion / DarkPro's - What do you think?

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No Time To Code
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Posted: 3rd Feb 2010 03:07 Edited at: 3rd Feb 2010 22:41
@Latch

Quote: "An alternative may be to have 2 static waypoints that are on either side of the house 90 degrees left and right from the door. These permanent waypoints are juxtaposed far enough from the house so that the aliens move outward from the house towards one of these points (randomly selected) and then resume their hunt for their original last waypoint"

Yes, I can give this a shot although the enemies original waypoint may be on the opposite side of the house. So no matter how widely spaced the static waypoints were, it will still involve collision with the house. We may still need your method of dealing with collisions

I was just looking at the top floor. Can you put a collision box (invisible or maybe with a railing) to keep the enemy from falling down the stairs as it moves around the second floor? If so it should make the movement on the second floor pretty easy. Otherwise it's going to be a little messy to have to add a lot of waypoints and define more zones to account for the open stairway area.

[edit]
What about having only one way to go (instead of left or right) when you get to the top of the stairs? Then I would only have to define two zones for the top floor.
Latch
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Posted: 5th Feb 2010 21:36
Quote: "What about having only one way to go (instead of left or right) when you get to the top of the stairs? Then I would only have to define two zones for the top floor."

I think a banister or a pile of something could be done. If one is walking up the stairs, the exit point will be at the top right from the top stair (the biggest one).

Enjoy your day.
Latch
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Posted: 10th Feb 2010 05:04
Finished the alien. I'm actually satisfied with it. Now I've got to animate it. The environment is still coming. I'd like to try and finish it by this weekend or next weekend at the latest.

Enjoy your day.
No Time To Code
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Posted: 11th Feb 2010 01:50
I've got the enemies moving between the 1st and 2nd floor pretty well. Just have to do a bit more testing but I should be able to post code by the weekend. I'm sure I'll need to do some tweaking once the collision is implemented. Right now the code just 'teleports' the enemy between the floors depending on whether it's going up or down the stairs but that good enough to see that the code works.
Digger412
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Posted: 12th Feb 2010 07:06 Edited at: 12th Feb 2010 21:49
Okay, I read through the 191 page manual for xNormal (www.xnormal.net), and it really is an astounding little program. I tried to do normal mapping on the crate again (would parallax be better?), but I have a problem. In 3DC Pro, I have the correct textures for the crate, but I can't achieve the right lighting to make a normal map. In 3DWS, I can get the right lighting, but I can't use my correct textures. If I lightmap it in 3DWS, the normal will turn out wrong because it uses the incorrect textures. If I lightmap it in 3DC Pro, the normal wont work because the lighting isn't right.

I can get the right textures in 3DWS, but I'd have to make each face a different texture, so it'd end up being ~47 textures for the crate. That wouldn't affect the final model because I'd only need them for the correct textures in 3DWS, after that I can just use my single texture that I have cropped for all of the faces in my normal model. Anyways, I wouldn't mind doing that, but on top of that the crate is a single object in 3DWS, so I'd have to have a different object for every face.......Maybe importing would allow me to still have my default (good) textures, I'll try that.

EDIT: Nope, I can only import .csm, .map, or .wmp into 3DWS...I'll try just making the object in 3DWS, then texturing it from there......

EDIT2: Well, I just hand cropped 15 textures, then tried texturing a crate I made in 3DWS...and it crashed..tried again..and it crashed again..and the textures are stretched too...I'm going to bed now, since it's 12:40 in the morning, and since I'm about to throw the laptop out the window.

EDIT3: Woohoo! I was messing around with the crate again in 3DC, and I was mousing over the operations for some odd reason. Out of the blue, I remembered that lighting is used on a PER POLYGON basis, and the crate only has like ~100. By subdividing the faces up to ~47k total, I'm working on getting the correct lighting! What it needs to look like would be a fading type light, one coming from the top, bottom, left, and right directions. xNormal can make a normal map from those 4 pictures by analyzing the lighting differences. From this (HIGH POLY lol) mesh, I can make a normal map to apply to just a regular cube I hope!

EDIT5: Okay, I got the lighting how I want it. I'm in the process of taking the snapshots...if this doesn't work, I'll just change the crate to a .obj andload it into xNormal with a normal .obj cube, difference raytrace them, and make a normal map off of that.
Latch
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Posted: 12th Feb 2010 22:42
Sounds like you are learning a lot! Even though you could probably save yourself time by just finding an already made texture and slap it on a cube, you are learning how to create your own lighting and texturing effects. Another thing to add into the mix is texture unwrapping. The default texture unwrap methods most 3d apps have like sphere mapping, cube mapping, cylinder, etc. are fine for some things; but you'll find you really have control when you unwrap the UVs yourself and stretch them how you want them. This also lends itself nicely to creating normal maps.

Enjoy your day.
Digger412
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Posted: 12th Feb 2010 23:41 Edited at: 13th Feb 2010 03:14
Well, I can't seem to get the normal mapping to work...I have a normal map, but for some reason it doesn't seem to make any difference. I'll attach what I have so far. Beware when looking at Crate_High.x/.obj, they're the one with 47k polys. Crate_Low.obj is just a plain cube, which I had hoped to apply the normal map to. I also downloaded Blender, I'm gonna try and work with it (I've already installed and uninstalled it twice lol, maybe third time will be the charm).

I have the texture that I need, that's not the problem. I also have used the different wrapping methods before, too. I haven't messed with UV unwrapping, though.

EDIT: By embossing the normal map with itself, I can see a little bit of bumping....

EDIT2: New plan of action: Create a new crate. Subdivide said crate to achieve proper illumination. DO NOT Smooth crate, to ensure that snapshots of crate are square and not bent. Retry snapshotting, then creating another embossed normal.

EDIT3: I've had a partial success, I've gotten the wood grain to appear bumped but I haven't been able to replicate the inset portion. I've taken down what I had attached earlier and replaced it with what I have now. Crate3.x just uses Regular.bmp and Normal6.jpg.

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Latch
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Posted: 18th Feb 2010 00:10 Edited at: 18th Feb 2010 00:19
@NTTC
Quote: "What about having only one way to go (instead of left or right) when you get to the top of the stairs? Then I would only have to define two zones for the top floor."

Working on the environment some more. Got some trees, a few haybales, and banister for the top of the stairs. Here's a screeny so you can see where the entrance/exit is. This has no lightmapping.



It looks like the environment is approaching 10,000 polygons - and there are a lot of textures. We'll see what happens to performance.

I'm adding this stuff on as an extra object. The trees, the environment, crates, haystacks, banisters, etc. are being stored as a single object. I'm doing this to avoid having to re-lightmap and texture everything. It may bite me in the end, but for now, I'll have to see how it goes. I still have to set up the collision environment again after the model environment has been complete.

I'm attaching a screeny of the alien. Comments are welcome - good or bad.

Enjoy your day.

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Caleb1994
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Posted: 18th Feb 2010 07:06 Edited at: 18th Feb 2010 07:07
I would just like to say. Latch those models are awesome! For someone who said it's not there strong suit (paraphrasing) you're pretty good!

New Site! Check it out \/
No Time To Code
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Posted: 18th Feb 2010 16:57
I agree with Caleb1994, the alien looks great! I'm looking forward to seeing it creeping through the house!

In the screenshot it looks like the area on the other side of the steps is blocked off by crates. That should make the alien movement a little easier although the code as it currently stands should be able to handle movement to that area. I'll just need to tweak the zone to exclude that area and I will post the code in a couple of days.
Latch
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Posted: 18th Feb 2010 22:52
Quote: "In the screenshot it looks like the area on the other side of the steps is blocked off by crates."

Should I open that up? I was trying to strategize a bit, forcing the player to only go one way. The attic seems like a too safe area in the house in some regards.

Quote: "Latch those models are awesome!"

Quote: "I agree with Caleb1994, the alien looks great!"

The texturing really made the difference. I spent a lot of time trying to understand UV unwrapping and applying textures. I have a lot to learn! I also figured out a couple of "easy" modeling techniques. Like a generic head. You can whip one up in Blender in about a minute. Not a super great detailed head, but a good start with a decent shape with very few polygons. I'm know I'm not the first to do it this way, but I was pretty happy with the result and how easy it was to do:

Here's the steps and a screeny to follow:
1. Make a cube
2. Extrude the bottom region of the cube to a little less than the height of the original cube.
3. From the side view, bring in the lower rear vertices to form a boxy looking jaw-like area.
4. Still in side view, for the middle set of vertices, grag them forward a little bit to hint at the bottom of the nose and the top of the mouth.
5. Add a subfurface modifier and only subsurface 1 level (to keep the polygon count nice and low).
6. Select the 2 lowest rows of vertices and scale them in a bit to shape the jaw and chin.

Your base head is ready!



Enjoy your day.
No Time To Code
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Posted: 18th Feb 2010 23:32
Quote: "Should I open that up?"

I'd say leave it blocked. Are those crates part of the "one world object"? What I'm getting at is, if after playtesting we decided to remove them, how hard would it be?

Quote: "You can whip one up in Blender in about a minute. "

Blender always seemed a little intimidating to me, I use Animator but I think you tips would still apply.
Latch
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Posted: 19th Feb 2010 03:28 Edited at: 26th Feb 2010 20:12
Quote: "Are those crates part of the "one world object"? What I'm getting at is, if after playtesting we decided to remove them, how hard would it be?"

There's a blender model where every piece is individual. The X exports have large sections of the world combined into 1 object. So, it would be easy to change in Blender and then just recreate the world object in this case.

If the change was to be made to the X objects, say you suddenly wanted to change something and not wait for me to do it in blender, then the .x file would have to be loaded into an editor (not blender because that loads x files terribly) and changed there. The only one that comes to mind is Deled3d though it flattens all of the normals to face normals. Fragmotion may also do the trick. It handles .x files pretty well.

Quote: "Blender always seemed a little intimidating to me, I use Animator but I think you tips would still apply."

Just tried it. Everything is pretty much the same except instead of a subsurface modifier, in Anim8or use Build > Subdivide faces > Tension 0.00

Enjoy your day.
Latch
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2010 16:40
Believe it or not, this project is still rolling along. We could still use some help if anuone wants to contribute. We still need a menu system or some kind of user interface. Currently, the environment is done, the moving system is mostly complete, the collision system about 60 to 70 percent done, the main enemy is done except not animated.

We still need good weapons models(low polygon preferably), sounds, and music.

Enjoy your day.
Link102
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Posted: 4th Mar 2010 16:20 Edited at: 5th Mar 2010 21:43
I'd like to help, but I don't really know what this game is about. Is there a summary somewhere so I don't have to traverse all 356 posts?

I can model, texture quite well in blender* and, as my sig suggests, I rule with photoshop.
*) I can rig, but haven't made a successful animation in darkbasic, the bones always scale in the x direction. Quite weird.

for the music bit I'd suggest the Newgrounds Audio portal

edit: nvm I found it on page 3, in between all the drama.

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Latch
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Posted: 4th Mar 2010 18:08
Quote: "edit: nvm I found it on page 3, along with all the drama."

Drama with the postings between the mod and the user? That was really the only drama. The project has kinda sorted itself out by leaving only those that can/want to work on the project still on board.

By nvm do you mean you don't want to help, or nvm you understand what the game is about?

Just in case you're still interested, here's a quick summary:

* What's the game about?
1. The game is an FPS
2. I takes place on a deserted farm
3. There is a house and a shed. The house is where the player can barricade themselves in and the shed is where the weapons/ammo stash is.
4. There is wave after wave of alien monsters trying to kill the player (much like Nazi Zombies) by tearing down the baricades to gain entry into the house.
5. The player shoots them and tries to keep them out.

* Base Mechanics
1. The game is written completely in DBC (except for media)
2. Part of the original goal was to see what could be done with just DBC code and no additional DLLs.
3. The animation is limb based so no bone riggings will work - that's the native animation for DBC.
4. The code contains lighting and material settings found in DBC 1.20 . This means the lighting is different than how it appears in DBC 1.13 and below.

* Current Worker Bees and tasks
1. No Time to Code - Programmer
Alien AI
a) outside waypoint system
b) inside waypoint system
c) pathfinding
d) monster movement

2. Latch - Programmer / environment maker
a) static and dynamic collision
b) farm/terrain modeling, texturing
c) alien modeling/texturing/animating

(overall movement will be defined by the final collision setup including the alien AI - should be a combination of Latch's and No Time to Code's DBC code.)

3. Digger412 - model making
a) still learning. Contributing ideas/texturing and some basic models.

Enjoy your day.
Link102
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Posted: 4th Mar 2010 19:12 Edited at: 4th Mar 2010 23:22
by nvm I understand what the game is about.

I'm working on a shovel model, because nothing beats whacking a zombie over the head with a rusted shovel.


Caleb1994
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Posted: 4th Mar 2010 21:31
If I got some good direction on what your thinking for the GUI, I could take a stab at that. I am not so good with 3D Modeling or even coding in 3D (never got past just walking around with a gun object on the screen ), but it seems like those jobs are taken anyway

New Site! Check it out \/
Link102
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Posted: 4th Mar 2010 23:23 Edited at: 5th Mar 2010 14:11
I made a sign texture. Might be useful


How realistic is this game? Like how real do the guns have to be? Do we have zombie cows running around?

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Caleb1994
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Posted: 5th Mar 2010 01:27
Quote: "Do we have zombie cows running around?"


Haha! That's a thought for later! lol

New Site! Check it out \/
Latch
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Posted: 5th Mar 2010 01:45
As far as media goes, if it is downloaded from the internet or gleaned from some other source, be prepared to prove that it is allowed to be used for personal or commercial projects.

As far as the items that we need, we could use the following guns to start with:

A hand gun (revolver or pistol)
A single shot rifle
A machine gun
A single barreled pump action shotgun
A double barreled shotgun

@Link102
I like the idea of whacking something in the head with a shovel! So, sure, include it if you are game.

In regards to textures, keep them at 256x256 max unless it's really necessary to make them larger.

@Caleb1994
I don't have specifics for the gui. I have a few generalities:
1) A title page

2) A menu system that is acessible at the start of the game and can also be reached through a pause feature in game.

3) The ability to:
a. Start a new Game
b. Quit current game
c. Load in an old game
e. Save the current game
f. Continue current game

4) In game there should be a display of the current weapon/ammo and possibly the players health.

For the look, I guess the general theme is creepy, night time, perilous, time is running out, alieny, and dire as a few nouns and adjectives to try and get across the idea. The environment takes place on a farm or country like area.

The menu system should be self contained in it's own library of functions if possible. It should be easily editable. I don't want a series of Windows like buttons and gadgets.

I'll have to give the specifics more thought but maybe that gives you a general launching point?

Enjoy your day.
Link102
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Posted: 5th Mar 2010 14:07 Edited at: 5th Mar 2010 14:13
I'd like to know more about the farm and it's inhabitants and the game itself.
Can you describe what this farm looks like?
Describe what this shed looks like and what it is used for (both by the farmer and the player).
Describe what the house looks like.
What vehicles does the farmer drive? (I could model and old ford pickup with the engine out)
What are the game's mechanics? (is it round based, day/night, health pickups or completely arcade?)
How are we going to the barricade mechanic.

Quote: "Haha! That's a thought for later! lol"

Actually that's a thought for now. Real game companies don't even write a single line before they have the entire game thought out.

Quote: "As far as media goes, if it is downloaded from the internet or gleaned from some other source, be prepared to prove that it is allowed to be used for personal or commercial projects."

It's from a photograph my cousin took on his vacation in New Zealand.

Quote: "A hand gun (revolver or pistol)
A single shot rifle
A machine gun
A single barreled pump action shotgun
A double barreled shotgun"

Wow, where do all these guns come from? All weapons I can think of is a hunting rifle, a pitchfork/ shovel, a chainsaw and possibly a handgun in the night stand.
Why would a farmer own a machine gun?

Quote: "In regards to textures, keep them at 256x256 max unless it's really necessary to make them larger. "

I rescaled it.

Latch
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Posted: 5th Mar 2010 17:53
Quote: "I'd like to know more about the farm and it's inhabitants and the game itself.
Can you describe what this farm looks like?
Describe what this shed looks like and what it is used for (both by the farmer and the player).
Describe what the house looks like.
What vehicles does the farmer drive? (I could model and old ford pickup with the engine out)
"


Thanks for your interest.

The farm, the house, the shed they are all done. There is no farmer. There are no driveable vehicles, there are no animals. A person looking for gas wonders onto the abandoned farm and are attacked for no reason they can understand by wave after wave of alien monsters. It just so happens that whoever was here before had some idea of what was to come and stockpiled weapons of various sorts in the shed.

Quote: "What are the game's mechanics? (is it round based, day/night, health pickups or completely arcade?)"

The game is 100% arcade in that there is wave after wave of the same kind of enemy increasing in number and perhaps in endurance and speed. There is no boss. The single goal aspect of the game is to keep the design simple and able to be completed in a reasonable amount of time.

I don't like the idea of health pickups as it adds an unnecessary element and management system. I think a healing over time kind of approach would be better suited.

Quote: "Wow, where do all these guns come from? All weapons I can think of is a hunting rifle, a pitchfork/ shovel, a chainsaw and possibly a handgun in the night stand.
Why would a farmer own a machine gun?"

As far as models for the stage we're at, I just need the ones (weapons) that were previously listed. There's already some basic code done for the shooting engine so this with the various projectile weapons needs to be set up and tested.

The outline for the game is basically done. The work assignments and stages have already been created and distributed. Unfortunately, many that initially said they would take on certain responsibilities just failed to do so, so Not Time to Code and myself continued to work as the schedule was set, taking on any of the tasks that were abandoned. As we start to fine tune some of the processes we already have in place, we feel this project can still have community involvement and with additional helping hands, the project can get back on schedule. According to my original time assessment, we are about 2.5 months behind from where I thought we should be.

So forgive me if I seem to dictate what needs to be done without, perhaps, the full explanation of why. If you follow the entire thread, much of everything has already been discussed and laid out.

Quote: "How are we going to the barricade mechanic."

This is something we need to address. We've had a few ideas but nothing real solid. One idea, was to create a 3 by 3 or 3 by 2 cross section of boards like a big # sign as a single object. Each board would be a limb that is animated. As a board is "ripped" away by a monster, the limb would be animated to fly off away from the house then be hidden when it reaches a certain frame number. A collision test with a monster in attack mode would determine the initiation of the board animation. Some means, an array I suppose, would be used to keep track of the current state of the board object and which limbs are hidden or not. When all limbs are hidden, the barricade is passable. To replace the boards, each limb would be unhidden and the animation reversed. So, the board objects would always be at the windows, but limbs would be hidden or not.

I don't know what the comparison of the overhead would be between an animated limbed object and individual board objects. The same process could be applied except for individual objects. That system could be handled like a particle system. All of the boards would have a default position at all the possible entry points. These could be stored in an array. Each board is animated and follows the rules previously discussed.

I'm attaching a few screen shots so you can get the gist of how the environment looks. They are compressed jpegs for size and the lighting in the environment is a little dark.

Enjoy your day.

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Link102
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Posted: 5th Mar 2010 19:33 Edited at: 5th Mar 2010 21:44
Quote: "There is no farmer. There are no driveable vehicles, there are no animals. A person looking for gas wonders onto the abandoned farm and are attacked for no reason they can understand by wave after wave of alien monsters. It just so happens that whoever was here before had some idea of what was to come and stockpiled weapons of various sorts in the shed."

The reason I asked is so we can get into the back-story of the farmer. When modeling environments it's a good thing to keep in mind who lived there and what happened (to them).

Like the farmers situation. He knew that aliens were coming. He stockpiled on weapons, probably food and other resources too. He might have gone nuts and wrote stuff on the walls. He might have moved all his furniture to one side of the house. He might have barricaded certain parts of his property. He definitely ran in panic.
The shed might have been used as a stable a few years ago, but now only holds the farmers tools, a broken down car and some hay bales. The pens and gutters could still be intact.
These are all just ideas though

Quote: "I don't like the idea of health pickups as it adds an unnecessary element and management system. I think a healing over time kind of approach would be better suited. "

I agree.

Edit: I've attached the shovel model. It loads perfectly in dbp but won't load the diffuse map in dbc.


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Caleb1994
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Posted: 5th Mar 2010 22:18
Latch:

Ok, one question. Are we going to have radar to? Like where it shows where the aliens are? Just checking.

From the way you described the menu system you are going to have some sort of save file. If so do you want a file explorer type thing in the menu, or just query the save file folder and display the player name stored inside each file?

I will try and throw something together in The Gimp just to get and idea.

Are we doing a 2D Display or a 3D Display(3D Textured planes). 3D Seems easier with the positioning, and collision. You could even have a plane for the mouse and just check for collision with the different selections. I will see what i can throw together with 3D. Tell me what you think.

New Site! Check it out \/
Link102
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Posted: 6th Mar 2010 00:30 Edited at: 6th Mar 2010 00:44
how's this for a machine gun?
it's probably the most low poly I can make it (293 faces)

I can squeeze more detail into it. It's your call.
reference

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Latch
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Posted: 6th Mar 2010 08:28 Edited at: 6th Mar 2010 08:41
Quote: "it's probably the most low poly I can make it (293 faces)"

It looks pretty good! Though if that is 293 blender faces, that's in quads so that means about 586 triangles. I dunno. If you can shave a few polygons off that would be great. But it looks quite good.

I changed the texture type to .bmp so the shovel's diffuse map is fine in DBC. That's a nice shovel! You've got some skills it would seem.

Quote: "The reason I asked is so we can get into the back-story of the farmer. When modeling environments it's a good thing to keep in mind who lived there and what happened (to them).

Like the farmers situation. He knew that aliens were coming. He stockpiled on weapons, probably food and other resources too. He might have gone nuts and wrote stuff on the walls. He might have moved all his furniture to one side of the house. He might have barricaded certain parts of his property. He definitely ran in panic.
The shed might have been used as a stable a few years ago, but now only holds the farmers tools, a broken down car and some hay bales. The pens and gutters could still be intact.
These are all just ideas though"

All very legitimate concerns and ideas. However, the planning stage for story and such is over. The game is very basic. Shoot, kill, survive. The environment just supplies a place to do that. There is no why. There is no reason. There is no logic. There only is Eight hours 'til Dawn. The house, area, everything is done and the waypoints, collision, and path nodes are set up for those areas. I just want to keep moving forward. When this project is finished and if there is an actual team still interested in taking the next step, then a more in depth game could be attempted.

@Caleb
This is sort of an open area in terms of design. 3d planes would probably allow for more special effects (transparency, rotations, whatever). But 2d for displays of ammo or icons might be easier to manage. If collision testing for 3d planes was done when the game was in pause say for a main menu, that would be fine. I wouldn't want the collision on those objects active during game play because that would just take away from performance.

However, do not hard code the positions, texture/image sizes or font sizes for any 2D that is drawn to the screen. There is a screen resolution selection at the beginning of the game so users can select their resolution for best performance. The selector based on TDKs screen mode selector found on the code snippets board. Anyway, you should calculate the positions and sizes of 2D based on the current screen resolution. That most likely means percentages. Not simply divide or multiply by some constant.

I don't think there should be a radar. The enemies are always going to be seeking the player. You never have to track them down. They are coming for you!

Quote: "From the way you described the menu system you are going to have some sort of save file. If so do you want a file explorer type thing in the menu, or just query the save file folder and display the player name stored inside each file?"

I think a save folder that is created in the games main directory should suffice. Saving a game may be as simple as stamping a date and time onto a string reading "game" . And loading it back just displays the contents of the save folder for selection.

You don't have to worry about the file format for the save or load yet, as it hasn't been decided what would actually be saved. If your function could display and select the contents of a specific folder that can be determined by code (no need to explore the whole computer) and upon clicking on the file return the name of the selected file, that should suffice.

Enjoy your day.

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Link102
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Posted: 6th Mar 2010 16:21 Edited at: 6th Mar 2010 16:26
Quote: "It looks pretty good! Though if that is 293 blender faces, that's in quads so that means about 586 triangles. I dunno. If you can shave a few polygons off that would be great. But it looks quite good."

I've shaven off all there is to shave. We're at 228 faces atm. Do note that it can still be halved because we can't see most of the faces in first person view.

Quote: "I changed the texture type to .bmp so the shovel's diffuse map is fine in DBC. That's a nice shovel! You've got some skills it would seem."

Thank you . I tried it with png, it didn't work.
Again, a bit high in the ploy's, but it can be halved for first person view. (It still needs to be optimized though.)

Quote: "All very legitimate concerns and ideas. However, the planning stage for story and such is over. The game is very basic. Shoot, kill, survive. The environment just supplies a place to do that. There is no why. There is no reason. There is no logic. There only is Eight hours 'til Dawn. The house, area, everything is done and the waypoints, collision, and path nodes are set up for those areas. I just want to keep moving forward. When this project is finished and if there is an actual team still interested in taking the next step, then a more in depth game could be attempted.
"

I don't think I explained it right. The reason why I am asking for the back story is not so we can develop a more interesting story for the player to enjoy. But because we can model a proper farm to go with that story. Players are smart and if they notice something out of place it will break the illusion of the game.
Forgive me if I'm going on and on about this. I'll drop it now and well see how far we'll get.

Latch
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Posted: 6th Mar 2010 17:51
Quote: "But because we can model a proper farm to go with that story. Players are smart and if they notice something out of place it will break the illusion of the game"

I think I understand what you are saying. One would look for a cohesion in the entire game that has a specific flow and consistency. Your comments are appreciated and yes, the design should follow a solid thought out idea. It totally makes sense, but there is a history to where the project is now and I think I should explain to you my resistance to any major redesign at the current stage. The main goal is to finish a working game that at least meets the original premise.

This was started as a community project. In order to be able to get anything done, at least as a first project, everything had to be stripped down to a minimum. Once the premise was set, there were responsibilities to get certain things done. One of those things was to create placeholders for objects just so we could get some basic testing done. The final models were to be created later with all the themes in place.

However, people didn't meet their responsibilities for whatever reasons and time ticked along with getting nothing done, so to keep the project going, I had to put together the placeholder models. Digger412 helped out where they could and did created a few models and textures. Next, more people vanished without working on what they said they would (I understand there's the real world and volunteering for something that may not have any tangible return may not have enough incentive to work on). No Time to Code picked up the slack there and so did I. In order to not waste any more time, I took the placeholder models and "finalized" them by adding some textures/light mapping etc. More time ticks along.

The desire to get a workable demo and finish the original outlined tasks are the goal. Not wanting to put more effort and time into the environment, it's decided it will stay as is. Ancillary objects are needed - weapons, boards for the barricaded windows, a door, a box or gun rack for the weapons that goes in the shed - an interactive menu is needed - as far as coding, the combat system has to be completed, movement has to completed, the monsters have to be animated...

If all this can be accomplished and there actually are creatures running around that can be shot, then retheming the game with any back stories or embellishments or any elaborations makes sense. The current environment could be treated as a placeholder environment to be replaced with the "real" environment which was the original plan back in October or November. With what we need to get done right now, however, the back story won't help and everything is already in place to get something working.

Your ideas are welcomed and I appreciate your input.

@No Time to Code
I haven't checked my email, but did you get my concerns about the enemies maybe being spread out below the windows and coming in at different angles instead of all entering through the center?

Enjoy your day.
No Time To Code
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Posted: 6th Mar 2010 19:01
@All
Let me echo Latch's statement. I had my doubts about this project ever being finished because of people dropping out. I think the storyline and environment are in place for a good game. There were a lot of good ideas discussed during this thread and if we had ten people who could devote a lot of their time to the project, I'm sure we could incorporate them all and make the game even better. As it is, Latch, Digger and I have made some good progress and we welcome any help to bring the basic idea (as Latch has laid out) to completion.

@Latch
Yes, I saw your email. I know you had mentioned that getting the aliens though the window could be tricky, are you sure you want to try to have multiple enemies with collision coming through the window at the same time? If so, I'll look at adding an additional waypoint at each window. When the attack enemies spawn they could randomly choose a waypoint at the target window. There would still be a chance that two enemies headed to the same window would pick the same waypoint. You could put some code that if two creatures are going for the same waypoint and they collide, one chooses the other waypoint but it sounds like it might be getting unnecessarily complicated...
Libervurto
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Posted: 6th Mar 2010 20:11
I have been watching this thread and I'd love to do some more music.
I've been holding off until there is more of a theme to this game. That alien is good inspiration.
I might be able to help out with things like menus but I can't provide any graphics.

As for the storyline, if it's not set in stone, here's my alternative.

You are driving along a back road, your headlights are the only light for miles. Suddenly an animal runs across the road so fast you have to swerve to avoid it (this was an alien but you can't make it out), you run off the road and crash.
The car is a write-off. You get out and start looking for a place to phone for a tow truck. You head in the direction of a farm.
When you get to the farm you see a lot of dead animals. You go to the farmhouse and find the farmer, dead, with a rifle by his side.
His face is totally disfigured. The phone is smashed on the floor.
Then you hear loud noises coming from beyond the fields. You look out the window and see hundreds of creatures tearing towards you. You pick up the gun and prepare to whoop some ass!

good? Do-able?

Maybe even the farmhouse door is barricaded shut but you find a hole in the wall to climb through.

"With games, we create these elaborate worlds in our minds, and the computer is there to do the bookkeeping." - Will Wright
Caleb1994
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Posted: 9th Mar 2010 06:36
Dang, everytime i think i have enough time i get swamped with homework and life. Sorry again guys highschool suxx hahaha

New Site! Check it out \/
Latch
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Posted: 9th Mar 2010 18:08
That's fine. If anyone can help with the things that were listed, that'd be great. If not, that's ok too. We'll still keep working.

@NTTC
How hard would it be to use your waypoint system to create a path for the camera to maybe move through the house, and/or around the general area? I was just thinking of a background effect while the main menu is displayed. The camera could be moving and panning around or something. How hard would it be to come up with a path for this using your waypoint editor?

Quote: "are you sure you want to try to have multiple enemies with collision coming through the window at the same time? If so, I'll look at adding an additional waypoint at each window. When the attack enemies spawn they could randomly choose a waypoint at the target window. There would still be a chance that two enemies headed to the same window would pick the same waypoint. You could put some code that if two creatures are going for the same waypoint and they collide, one chooses the other waypoint but it sounds like it might be getting unnecessarily complicated..."

hmmmm.... Maybe you can hold off on this for a moment. This may be solved when I implement the creature to creature collision and the enter the window code. If a creature gets pushed to the side due to collision, maybe that's the point at which it enters. Or perhaps this, if the waypoint is centered below the window (as it currently is I think) the arrival at the waypoint doesn't have to be exact. There can be a buffer on either side of the waypoint up to half the width of the window. That way you don't change the waypoints but you change the code that indicates arriving at that waypoint.

So, let me see what creature to creature collision yields. If the behavior isn't what's expected or unnecessarily hard to manage, then it may be a matter of adding the additional waypoints and having the creature just pick 1 randomly. It's ok if two pick the same waypoint. On the early levels it may be like a shooting gallery, on the higher levels when there are 15 or 20 creatures trying to get in at once, they should be spread out enough to make things challenging.

Enjoy your day.
No Time To Code
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Posted: 9th Mar 2010 22:01 Edited at: 9th Mar 2010 22:56
Quote: "How hard would it be to come up with a path for this using your waypoint editor?"

That's a cool idea! Shouldn't be a problem to do (famous last words ) I was thinking about taking a crack at the main menu anyway since Caleb1994 is out for now and you are working on the collision. I'll get on it this week.

[Edit]
Will the screen resolution be selected before or after the main menu? I'm trying to figure out wheter I'd have to scale/position the items on the main menu based on the choosen screen resolution or if the main menu would display in a default resolution but the player could change the resolution for the actual game.
Latch
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Posted: 10th Mar 2010 04:27
Quote: "Will the screen resolution be selected before or after the main menu? "

I'm thinking before. If we use the main menu as something that can be gone back to, switching the resolution messes up images and such. It may be handled that on the first run of the game, the resolution screen comes up so that the user can set their defaults. This is stored in a file or in the registry. If the user ever wants to change the resolution later, then that can be an option in the menu. The menu and text sizes and positions should be based on the resolution so you should scale everything anyway whether before or after the fact. If we go back to the menu from the game, it has to be sized accordingly - so hard coding the dimensions doesn't really make sense. The ratio should be based on width to height at any given time. 4:3 vs 5:3 vs 16:9 etc.

Enjoy your day.
pictionaryjr
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Posted: 11th Mar 2010 02:07
Hey guys, I would love to help you guys out on this game a little. I'm working on a game similar to it, so maybe with two projects going on and progress occuring on both it will keep me motivated. I'm not promising anything major, but i could help out with some of the media or bug fixing. I'm decent at modeling but not so much at texturing. I know how to UV map and create textures, I'm just not good at creating the texture and then inserting it into the UV. It ends up having bad seams and stuff. Lemme know if you have anything that needs working on.

Link102
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Posted: 11th Mar 2010 03:02
Quote: "hmmmm.... Maybe you can hold off on this for a moment. This may be solved when I implement the creature to creature collision and the enter the window code. If a creature gets pushed to the side due to collision, maybe that's the point at which it enters. Or perhaps this, if the waypoint is centered below the window (as it currently is I think) the arrival at the waypoint doesn't have to be exact. There can be a buffer on either side of the waypoint up to half the width of the window. That way you don't change the waypoints but you change the code that indicates arriving at that waypoint."


What's all this complicated stuff about collision and monsters trying to squeese trough a window? If a monster reaches a window just check it off as an occupied window.

No Time To Code
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@Link102
Quote: "What's all this complicated stuff about collision and monsters trying to squeese trough a window? If a monster reaches a window just check it off as an occupied window."

The challange was to have two monsters going through the window at the same time. If we only allow one monster through at a time your right, it shouldn't be that complicated.
Link102
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Posted: 12th Mar 2010 04:22 Edited at: 12th Mar 2010 04:24
Then have 2 waypoints on the window and both monsters take their own one.
Make a little window climbing animation (in witch they don't intersect) and after it has played, let the ai take back control of the monsters.

Latch
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Posted: 12th Mar 2010 19:02
@link102
Quote: "Then have 2 waypoints on the window and both monsters take their own one."

That's all been part of the discussion NTTC and I have had on the forums and off of the forums.

The situation is, at present, all of the windows have a single waypoint in the center that the monsters can arrive at. The windows are wide enough to allow for more than 1 monster at a window at a time. We want to be able to have more than 1 monster at a window. In order to keep them from lining up behind one another, we have to either add additional waypoints, or change the behavior of how a monster approaches the way point, or use the collision between monsters to help "shove each other" and spread out evenly below the window or go around a blocking monster to an open area on the window.

The discussion has been to figure out what's the best way. The collision has to be done regardless, so part of the discussion is possibly using the collision that keeps creatures from overlapping each other as a means to help move them to an open position under a window.

So, it may be a little more complicated than just keeping track of the arrival at a window, though I like that idea in terms of managing where creatures are. A variation may be that first arrivals are always to the left side of the window, and the second arival would be to the right side. Once both slots (or however how many slots depending on the size of the window) are filled, any additional creatures can pump their fists in frustration behind the others until one of the slots open.

Quote: "Make a little window climbing animation (in witch they don't intersect) and after it has played, let the ai take back control of the monsters"

This is already on the table. First thing we need to finish is the alien behavior arriving at the window.

@pictionaryjr
Since Caleb1994 dropped out of making a menu, perhaps you'd want to tackle this? However, No Time to Code was going to pick this up so perhaps the 2 of you can work out where this is.

Enjoy your day.
TDK
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Posted: 12th Mar 2010 19:21
I have some low poly models you are free to use if they are of any use to you. Like this chair:



Download Chair

Let me know and I'll dig them out.

Might even find time to create a few new ones for you if you don't have time to do them yourselves.

TDK

Link102
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Posted: 12th Mar 2010 20:05
How are we going to do the animations? I know we're going to code it ourselves, but how? If you guys have made a tool for that, I'd love to fiddle with it.

No Time To Code
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Posted: 12th Mar 2010 20:38
@Latch, pictionaryjr
Quote: "Since Caleb1994 dropped out of making a menu, perhaps you'd want to tackle this? However, No Time to Code was going to pick this up so perhaps the 2 of you can work out where this is."

I've got a pretty good handle on the menu (although I've run into a problem which I'll get to in a minute).
pictionaryjr - Would you like to tackle the HUD?

@All
I'm using sprites for the menu buttons as per TDKs tutorial. These sprites are on top of a 3D environment in the background. The problem I'm running into is that when I'm exiting the menu function, if I DELETE the sprites I get an error about "The Dark basic program has encountered an error. Do you want to send the error data to Microsoft" This is not an exact quote because I'm not in front of the computer right now but it's a fatal error and the program crashes. If I HIDE the sprite the program is fine. I'd prefer to delete them
1. For performance
2. Having them remain on the screen, even though hidden, will cause problem when I check for collision with other menu buttons.

I can post the code and give the exact message when I get home but is there anything generally that could cause this problem? I'm assuming it has something to do with mixing 2D and 3D and something I'm missing, maybe something with the backdrop although I could be way off. I'm using Windows 7. If I have to I could use plains but I think the sprites are easier to work with.

@TDK
The chair looks great. I'm sure we could use some furniture and weapons.
Latch
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Posted: 12th Mar 2010 23:01
@NTTC
Quote: "The problem I'm running into is that when I'm exiting the menu function, if I DELETE the sprites I get an error about "The Dark basic program has encountered an error."

I remember this error. Usually it'll occur if the image is deleted before the sprite - but there was a circumstance I could never track down when just deleting the sprite caused the problem. If I were to guess, it has something to do with where the sprite is living in memory. Something is changing the pointer to the sprite - maybe turning transparency on or off or turning on or off the redraw or maybe something to with collision detection. Whatever the case, my guess is that the sprite isn't where the DBC pointers think it is and trying to delete it corrupts memory. Saying that doesn't help anything but it suggests some possible trouble with sprites.

Personally, I'd avoid using sprites. Directx 7 sprites especially with DBC are kinda quirky in certain circumstances and they are resource hungry hogs. You'd have less overhead just using images. If you are using sprite collision detection to find your positions in the menus, there are many ways to replace that. You can use color checking on an off screen bitmap and use the Point command. If you use the point command, use it as the last line in the loop to send a sync instead of using SYNC (since it sends it's own) otherwise it will run twice as slow.



If you want to get even fancier, use an array of the colors based on the screen coordinates - or use a memblock to the same end.

@all
I'm actually quite surprised with the amount of recent interest in this project and wasn't actually prepared to deal with people really wanting to contribute. I though I might get a response of 1 or 2 that said, I'll make a gun, or here's a texture of a tree, or something.

Let me reassess the project: where it is, what really needs to be done and create a definitive list of tasks. I should have that done fairly quickly. A day or two at most. In the interim, let me know the kind of information you need to understand what we are trying to accomplish and I'll see if I can come up with some answers to help you with the design or structuring of your contributions.

@link102
Quote: "How are we going to do the animations? I know we're going to code it ourselves, but how? If you guys have made a tool for that, I'd love to fiddle with it."

Blender. I've written a few scripts to export direct x limbed meshes with animations that work in DBC. Part of the trick is setting up the limbs and the model correctly. I go through the entire process of setting up limbs in this post:

Hierarchy

There's a lot of discussion and the main focus is setting up the limb hierarchy in blender from a 3ds model imported from anim8or, but the steps are relevant. Once that's done, animation can also be done using Lightning limbs by Robert the Robot.

Animations can also be created in something like fragmotion. When the animation is complete, it has to be exported as a BVH file. This file can be loaded into blender and a series of IPOs (animation curves) can be built and applied to a limbed object.

I've got a process that works for me. It's complicated, but it's not much work to me because I'm used to it and I build/built tools I need as I go along. So, there are probably different solutions that maybe better for others. I believe TrueSpace outputs hierarchical animation in Direct X files. Since TrueSpace is free, that is another option.

In regards to Blender, and maybe you have a handle on this, I want to be able to use the game/physics engine to simulate a board being punched into the house by a monster. I get the basic idea of how to set up the logic, but I'm having trouble controlling the number of frames produced for the animation and also the force of hitting the board. If you have any experience or insight into this I'd be curious to know. I'm close, but 500 frames for 2 secs of a spinning falling board is a few too many!

Enjoy your day.
pictionaryjr
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Posted: 13th Mar 2010 02:14
What kind of HUD are yall going for, I'm guessing something slightly like cod wow nazi zombies?

And for the whole sprite problem, just check if the sprite exist before you delete it.

No Time To Code
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 14:07
Quote: "And for the whole sprite problem, just check if the sprite exist before you delete it."

It's not a question of deleting sprites that don't exist. As per Latch's post, it seems to be a bug in DBC when mixing sprites with 3D.

Quote: "What kind of HUD are yall going for, I'm guessing something slightly like cod wow nazi zombies?"

I imagine we'll need the following displays:
Health
Time (it is call Eight hours till Dawn)
Ammo
Weapon selected

As far as the font, it up to you. I've attached a picture of the font I was going to use for the menu buttons. Scraggle has some good free fonts. I like the Bloodbath 2 on this page:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=74430&b=4

Although it may be a little over the top

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No Time To Code
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 14:10 Edited at: 15th Mar 2010 14:12
Quote: "And for the whole sprite problem, just check if the sprite exist before you delete it."

It's not a question of deleting sprites that don't exist. As per Latch's post, it seems to be a bug in DBC when mixing sprites with 3D.

Quote: "What kind of HUD are yall going for, I'm guessing something slightly like cod wow nazi zombies?"

I imagine we'll need the following displays:
Health
Time (it is call Eight hours till Dawn)
Ammo
Weapon selected

As far as the font, it up to you. I've attached a picture of the font I was going to use for the menu buttons. Scraggle has some good free fonts. I like the Bloodbath 2 on this page:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=74430&b=4

Although it may be a little over the top

{edit} I can't figure out how to include the picture in the post (but I did manage to double post )so it's attached as a download.

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Latch
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 19:12 Edited at: 16th Mar 2010 19:59
Quick Game Assessment

* Genre
First Person Shooter - Arcade

* Object
The object of Eight Hours ‘til Dawn is to survive as long as
possible against an alien enemy onslaught. To accomplish this,
the player must make repeated trips to an outside structure (a
slightly ruined brick shed) to pick up new weapons and/or
additional ammunition.

There is an unlimited amount of building material available to
board up the windows (the availability of building material isn't
graphically represented - the player can just build by being by a
window and activating the correct control) and try and keep the
monsters out. However, the creatures have no sense of fear and an
unfaltering desire to get in the house and kill the player so they
will tear down any barricades.

The barricades will slow down the creatures hopefully long enough
to allow the player a clear shot for a kill. As the night goes
on, the intensity and determination of the creatures increases.
The game will be staged in incrementing levels. Each level will
have a specific number of monsters that the player has to kill.
As the game levels increase, so will the number of monsters,
their speed, and their durability.

Potentially, more powerful weapons would be available to help
combat the increasing waves of enemies.


* Synopsis:
After hauling an empty gas can miles from where your car
had stalled on a lonely dirt road, you happen upon what seems to
be a small country house. Instead of aid, you find yourself
thrown into a nightmare. Trapped on a small homestead somewhere
in the country, you must fight to survive a never-ending onslaught
of bizarre humanoid creatures. These brutes have only one goal:
to tear you apart, limb from limb. Whoever lived here before
must’ve had some knowledge of what was to come for they were able
to stockpile a hefty cache of ammunition and weapons in a nearby
shed.

The main house seems the best place to barricade yourself
in, as the shed is too accessible and not as easily defended. The
catch, more weapons and ammunition is in the shed and you can only
carry so much at a time. Luckily however, there is more than
enough of a supply of lumber in the house to board up any windows
or points of entry. You must try and keep the monsters out if you
want to live!

Will dawn bring salvation or just more light for the
creatures to see you better by?

Problem:
As the premise of the game allows the player to leave the house, what's
preventing them from just running away? There has to be some means or
some reason why the player can't leave the grounds.

- A patrolling enemy ship with a 1 hit kill laser blast?
- A forest that is too think to get through and the dirve way is blocked but some kind of obstacle?
- Some kind of other patrolling alien or robots that swam on the player too far from the house?

I'd be interested in hearing any ideas on why the player would stay on the grounds instead of just running away.

* Current Tasks and assignments


* Tasks yet to be started and assigned

* Wanted Models


* Down the road needed


* Would be nice to have


@TDK
I would definitely like to know what kind of furniture you have available. And if they are low polygon, that would be even better!
* Chairs
* An old worn couch - maybe holes and springs showing through or maybe weather/fire damage
* An armoire
* A hinged Chest - see Wanted Models section
* A ceiling light fixture that has been torn out with exposed wires
* Lamp
* Different small piles of garbage/rubbish, small littered areas, etc.

@all
Adding any models to the existing environment will mean a little bit of redesign in terms of overall environment polygon count, collision setup, and passable impassable areas. Depending on flow and game play, some models may not be used. But I would still like the potential to use all or any of them. I just don't want there to be any disappointment or hard feelings if a model was/is created and isn't used in the game.

Enjoy your day.
pictionaryjr
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Posted: 16th Mar 2010 07:29 Edited at: 17th Mar 2010 07:08
I whipped up a quick armoire. I'm not exactly the best at texturing and stuff but oh well. The model is attached.





EDIT:

BTW for anyone who wants to know this has 46 polygons

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Link102
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Posted: 16th Mar 2010 14:12
I'm stil making the machinegun, I just don't know if the animations will work.

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