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Steele
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Posted: 29th Aug 2009 23:24
I'll see what I can come up with for numbers. Give me a little time to make something.

Steele

http://www.lanningsoftware.com
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HavokDelta6
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Posted: 29th Aug 2009 23:39
Sorry for lack of content of this post,

All I have to say is:
"Thank you Steele"

~Havok

GCSE results:
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5 (FIVE) a*'s ^_^
Steele
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Posted: 30th Aug 2009 00:26
I ran this for 1000 records first, then 10000 records. I've run it several times and it's generally about 2.5 seconds for 1000 of them, and of course about 25 or so for 10000.

The search times however remain constant at about 1 millisecond.

I'm attaching both pictures and putting the sample code here to see.



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Steele
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Posted: 30th Aug 2009 00:27
I found that I can only add one image per post. So bear with me.

Here's the second.

Steele

http://www.lanningsoftware.com
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jeffhuys
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Posted: 30th Aug 2009 02:08
@Steele:

Thank you so much for that information! Reading seems to be very fast!

You're the 'th to view this signature!
Steele
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Posted: 30th Aug 2009 05:09 Edited at: 30th Aug 2009 05:13
Well, when you think about it, writing can only be as fast as storing records regardless of how it gets there. Reading is a matter of keys per node that get loaded. In this case, I had a key length of six characters in a block of 1024 bytes. There are pointers and so forth associated with each node so I'll give a rough estimate of an even 1020. This means that 1020 / (6 + 4 + 4) = 72.8 approximately keys per node. (We have to round down). The root node has 72 keys with a possibility of 73 branches (I'll explain in a minute.)

So branch number two can hold 73^2 (5184) nodes. Each ones of those nodes can have 73^2 nodes giving branch three a total of 73^3 (373,248) nodes and so-on. The tree grows and shrinks as needed and stays balanced with surprisingly minimal rearrangement.

A node looks something like this:


The concept is easy. The code... well, that was a little more work than I had anticipated when I first began, especially the delete! I found that most people never even attempt to do the delete. So I keep this code backed-up on DVD and my backup drive. I'd not like to try to go through the torture twice.

Steele

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HavokDelta6
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Posted: 30th Aug 2009 13:04
Sorry, Quick question, its early so I may be wrong.

Can we, or Can we not, delete records?

~Havok

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Steele
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Posted: 30th Aug 2009 16:48
Oh yes, deletion is a part of the package. It's mentioned on the main page for it. It not only deletes but reuses the space for future records with an internal tracker.

For instance: Let's say you deleted records 104, 207, and 1009. Later you add new ones. It's going to check first to see if there are any spots to fill in by using an internal queue built into the header. 104 will be on the top so it will grab that first. Add another record and it will grab 207. A third add will grab 1009 thereby reclaiming the deleted space.

The index deletion has a built-in optimized dynamic tree balancing routine. A mouthful I know but I don't know of any other way to describe it succinctly. Delete a key and if necessary it will readjust the nodes that it affects keeping things sorted. It also will reuse space so that there is never such thing as an "empty node".

I hope this makes sense. There is more detail on the product page.

Steele

--- It's coffee time!!! ---

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HavokDelta6
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Posted: 30th Aug 2009 18:41
Anther question sorry.

Some of those statements seem to contradict, on one hand you say that deleting data will disrupt the tree, on the other hand it wont, but you don't mention that the tree is rebuilt, could you clarify this? please.

~Havok

GCSE results:
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kaedroho
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Posted: 31st Aug 2009 19:16
Just trying to get it working...

I keep getting "doesnt understand command at line ..." errors.

Ron Erickson
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Posted: 31st Aug 2009 19:20
Quote: "I keep getting "doesnt understand command at line ..." errors."


Are you sure it has properly installed and been activated?


a.k.a WOLF!
Guido Italy
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Posted: 31st Aug 2009 20:29
I also have error !
Steele
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Posted: 31st Aug 2009 21:01 Edited at: 31st Aug 2009 21:06
Strange, you shouldn't have any errors like that. Could you post a copy of the error message? I'll take a look.

[Edit]
Is this coming from DBPro itself or does it seem to come from within the plugin? That will help.

Thanks,

Steele

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Steele
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Posted: 31st Aug 2009 21:10 Edited at: 31st Aug 2009 21:11
Quote: "Some of those statements seem to contradict, on one hand you say that deleting data will disrupt the tree, on the other hand it wont, but you don't mention that the tree is rebuilt, could you clarify this?"


No trees are harmed by the deletion of a key, with the exception of a fern or two and the occasional oak. But those had termites so I'm not responsible.

Seriously, deletes work fine. Look up B-Trees in Google for information and diagrams.

Steele

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Flatlander
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Posted: 31st Aug 2009 21:11 Edited at: 31st Aug 2009 21:13
Quote: ""doesnt understand command at line ...""


This usually means that it wasn't activated. Perhaps there is a problem on TGC's end and they are trying to work it out. I purchased this on Friday after hours UK time and still haven't received the download link. They are usually on top of the purchases and sometimes I even get the link during the weekend. So, is this telling me that there might be a problem? Maybe. I sent an email to support early morning my time and still haven't received an answer. It is 13:09 here and 19:09 in the UK. They did have around 42 emails ahead of me, though, so not complaining.

-----------------------------------------------
Steele
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Posted: 31st Aug 2009 21:22
Rats, that may explain a lot. My first reaction is that it is something I've done but that does clarify things. It's been a while since I ordered anything. Hopefully that will change soon. There's this pay-per-view thing I'd like to see on HD-TV...

Steele

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Airslide
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Posted: 1st Sep 2009 03:09
I haven't been doing much with DBP lately but I've been thinking a long time now about getting in and doing something worth sticking to. I've had a project I've conjured up in my head and while I'm still not sure whether or not I go through with it I'll likely be purchasing this if I do. I very much like the idea of being self contained, as it is I'm not happy Dark Physics requires the drivers to be installed separately.

A database system like this would probably be of huge use to me. I see it's received a lot of criticism by those who have yet to even try it but from what I see it should fit nicely into my collection of DBP plugins

Steele
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Posted: 1st Sep 2009 04:56
Hi Airslide,

I like it because it looks nice in my trophy case.

Actually, I am using it for a small 3D space game involving a large set of stars each with a set of planets which may have moons.

At first I had it all in memory. It fit but was huge and I realized it was only going to grow with each star system I created. That's why I went with a database style. Now I can look up the system by it's name, it's coordinates, it's intergalactic serial designation and so-on.

Steele

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Flatlander
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Posted: 1st Sep 2009 16:32 Edited at: 1st Sep 2009 16:44
There was a bank holiday in England on Monday. That explains the lateness. I hadn't realized of course. I did get it this morning.

Addendum:

Hmmmmmm? I got this error:



I'm not sure what I need to upgrade? I have the latest version of DBPro: v74 and the plugin is brand new? The activation said it was successful. Is v75 out now? I didn't look. I'll do that now.

-----------------------------------------------
Ron Erickson
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Posted: 1st Sep 2009 16:45
Flatlander,
You have to use DBpro version 1.074 for the plugin to be able to register.

Ron


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Jeku
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Posted: 1st Sep 2009 19:45
This looks like a fantastic plugin for my next planned project! When do you think proper date and integer support will be added? It appears as if the integers are actually strings, but I could be wrong (the tutorial on the product page is admittedly a little confusing).

Also, do you think it would be easy for someone to disassemble the DAT files if they knew the field types? The same could be said for regular data binary files people natively write and read from, but it would be interesting if there was some kind of encryption which could be added in the future.

This is a great price and I'm going to pick it up as soon as I can Congrats!


Senior Web Developer - Nokia
Steele
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Posted: 1st Sep 2009 21:09 Edited at: 1st Sep 2009 21:10
They are strings for now. Proper integer and date support are coming up in the next update. I'm already working on those as I write this. The updates are free for the registered buyer. I'm expecting them to be out with a few other additions.

[Edit] Encryption is one of those additions by the way.

Steele

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Flatlander
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Posted: 1st Sep 2009 21:39
Ron,

Thanks for responding but I'm afraid that is what I am using. The newest update as I said. I just didn't put the 1.0 in front of it.

I have to use the newest version in order to modify the v115 FPSC source code. And that leads me to think that it is not possible to use plugins when compiling FPSC source code. I will try example source code from the other plug-ins I have, like Dark AI for one. Will get back on that.

Encryption would be good. That way a gamer who is computer savvy couldn't cheat by changing the data. However, they would just be hurting themselves in diminishing the challenge.

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Steele
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Posted: 1st Sep 2009 21:43
I had thought about encryption when it was mentioned a few days ago so I'm looking at various algorithms (RC4, RSA, AES, and so-forth) trying to find one that balances ease of use and speed.

The question about using numbers, dates and so-forth was already on the drawing board as I wanted to do that anyway. It's version 1.0 after all.

Steele

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Flatlander
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Posted: 1st Sep 2009 22:02
I tried compiling Dark Lights, Dark Physics as well as Dark AI. I get the same results. I then tried compiling the FPSC source code. It gives me the same message. This was after I installed Dark Data. (Steele, I'm sure it's not the plug-in's problem. I will re-install the v74 update and see if that helps. Or, maybe I will try to resend DBPro activation key first -- if that's possible.

As far as encryption, I'm sure you don't have to use a government ordained encryption algorithm. Encrypting like writing out the database problably doesn't have to be super fast but decrypting quickly would be a necessity. For FPSC, Lee puts out his saved game data into binary flat files. However, he doesn't save any string data, it is all numeric.

-----------------------------------------------
Steele
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Posted: 1st Sep 2009 22:08
Thanks for the tip, Flatlander. I think I found a small algorithm that will do the trick. I'm testing it right now. It's good that I didn't go with the government encryption algorithm. The Men In Black were watching over my shoulder a moment ago... something about sending messages to the mother ship.

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Flatlander
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Posted: 1st Sep 2009 22:43


Back to my issue.

I re-installed v1.074. I then did the prep thing to be able to compile FPSC. Interestingly enough I had to reactivate Dark Data. Somehow the certificate got erased in the re-install. Computers are so much fun, eh? That's why -- quoting steele now -- I straddle the line between genius and insanity. Guess which side I'm on right now? - Steele

-----------------------------------------------
Jeku
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Posted: 1st Sep 2009 23:35
I'm glad you're putting in proper integers in the next update. Will it be backwards compatible with the current version?


Senior Web Developer - Nokia
Steele
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2009 00:46
Yes it will be or at the very least, I'll have a converter to run so that it upgrades the data to a new format, if one exists.

Internally, it does change the strings to integers, doubles, and what-not so the data should be fine. The only thing that I see is that I may optimize the storage space which would change the format but we'll see. That may be for upgrade two.

To answer your question succinctly, version 1.1 will be backwards compatible.

Expect it in a day or two. I'm running tests now to make sure that it works under heavy loads. I've already got the code in place. Encryption is also in there.

Steele

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Steele
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Posted: 2nd Sep 2009 00:48
Flatlander
Quote: "Computers are so much fun, eh? That's why -- quoting steele now -- I straddle the line between genius and insanity. Guess which side I'm on right now? - Steele"


ROFL!!! Thanks, I needed that. I've never thought I'd see my words echoed in this context.

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Slooper
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 18:59 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2009 19:03
Bought the plugin and tested the example project that came with it, got silent crash. Steele I added you to msn so we can figure out whats wrong


You never fail, only make mistakes.
Steele
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 19:31
Hi Slooper,

I've not used a chat program in years. Let me get setup and we'll see if we can figure this out.

Thanks,

Steele

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Steele
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 19:41 Edited at: 4th Sep 2009 16:47
An update. It's a compatibility issue. For some reason Vista and Windows 7 aren't playing well and I don't know that it's the library or something else because of several indications dealing with the display. I put it on compatibility 98/me mode and the demo works in it.

I don't consider it a solution, merely that I can run it on a Vista machine under another mode.

I will keep looking into it. In the meantime, I did get the encryption and real numeric storage without breaking the files. I'll have this out in a day or so after I see if I need to make a bug fix or if it is something with the demo itself.

[Update] I've narrowed it down to string handling. I've concentrated my efforts on finding out why XP and Vista/Windows 7 are different. I figure that out and I can get a solution in quickly.

Thanks,

Steele

http://www.lanningsoftware.com
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Slooper
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Posted: 4th Sep 2009 17:01
Quote: "An update. It's a compatibility issue. For some reason Vista and Windows 7 aren't playing well and I don't know that it's the library or something else because of several indications dealing with the display. I put it on compatibility 98/me mode and the demo works in it.

I don't consider it a solution, merely that I can run it on a Vista machine under another mode.

I will keep looking into it. In the meantime, I did get the encryption and real numeric storage without breaking the files. I'll have this out in a day or so after I see if I need to make a bug fix or if it is something with the demo itself.

[Update] I've narrowed it down to string handling. I've concentrated my efforts on finding out why XP and Vista/Windows 7 are different. I figure that out and I can get a solution in quickly.

Thanks,

Steele "


This is what i call good support mate. Did you stay up long after i logged ?


You never fail, only make mistakes.
Steele
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Posted: 4th Sep 2009 17:12
Quote: "Did you stay up long after i logged ?"


Let's see... (checking calendar) yes. LOL!!!

I did but I took a break for an hour and came back to it with a new idea on how to resolve this and worked on it until about two o'clock this morning. I'm pretty sure that I should have died years ago were it not for the constant caffeine intake in that drink so loved by many geeks like myself... coffee. My blood has long since been replaced by Folger's Crystals.

I'll not rest, I'll not sleep, until I have Zzzzz Wha.. sorry was I snoring?

Steele

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Grandmaster B
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Posted: 4th Sep 2009 22:50
Good idea to make a database for DBP, i definately see the advantages in using it. Seperating data from code is one of most important principle in game and software design and DBP was lacking here.

DarkData is a key to more complex DBP projects if you ask me!
Good job in developing and seeing the needs for it!!!

I for one do not need or want SQL though i'm using mySQL professionally over a decade now. I agree with Steele with the points discussed. I would never use SQL in a game client!

Is or will there be a small GUI for creating and filling databases?
Duffer
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Posted: 4th Sep 2009 23:17
@ Steele,

Does this wonderful-looking plugin work at all at any level with Vista (32 bit) yet?

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
Steele
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Posted: 5th Sep 2009 00:15 Edited at: 5th Sep 2009 00:17
Good news!!! I solved the problem. I was making things too hard for myself. I'll need to get this out to TGC so they can post the update for everyone.

Duffer, yes, in fact I just ran it on my laptop which is running Vista 32-bit. However, TGC will have to publish the update so keep an eye out.

Grandmaster, I do plan to have a GUI eventually along with a few other goodies. However, after I send this to Mike to republish I think I'm going to take a well deserved break this evening and tomorrow I'll see what else I can break... I mean, enhance!

Steele

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Duffer
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Posted: 5th Sep 2009 00:26
@ Steele - excellent, thanks for getting back so quickly, and well done (in that order).

The GUI (at a later date!) sounds pretty useful.

I've just gone and ordered it... trusting there are help files, ini etc.

Something to consider for the future also are commands to import or export from xml, csv etc.?

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
Grandmaster B
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Posted: 5th Sep 2009 01:52
Quote: "Grandmaster, I do plan to have a GUI eventually along with a few other goodies. However, after I send this to Mike to republish I think I'm going to take a well deserved break this evening and tomorrow I'll see what else I can break... I mean, enhance!"


Thanks for your quick response! Get rested buddy
Slooper
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Posted: 5th Sep 2009 02:29
Steele dont know if thats what duffer talk about ( the gui thing ) but will you add an gui database manager to the plugin so its easly editable ? if it wasnt duffer´s idea i completley take the credit for it


You never fail, only make mistakes.
Steele
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Posted: 5th Sep 2009 17:41 Edited at: 5th Sep 2009 17:42
Slooper, of course it wasn't his idea. It was MINE all mine I tell you!!!! Oh wait, we have a thread here don't we? Rats. Okay, it wasn't my idea. Rats...

Actually, I did have an idea to create one for it but wasn't sure how many would like it and it seems that several will so that gives me a reason. But I'm giving credit where credit is due, to you, Grandmaster, and Duffer.

Duffer:
Quote: "I've just gone and ordered it... trusting there are help files, ini etc.

Something to consider for the future also are commands to import or export from xml, csv etc.?
"


Yes, there are help files, an .ini, and a tutorial along with an example program. No problem.

For the import/export, I did write a program (I had forgotten about it) that will allow one to read a dBase III+ file into it. CSV shouldn't be difficult and I think I have some routines on one of my drives somewhere for reading and writing directly to an .xml. I'll make these a part of version 1.2 so that I can get the bug fix and encryption out to those that asked last week about it.

I'll keep you updated. I appreciate the response. I didn't expect such a desire from the community and I'm glad to see that it is useful.

Off to do some more testing. I want to be sure that everything works under a heavy load before I submit it to TGC.

Steele

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Steele
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Posted: 6th Sep 2009 00:00 Edited at: 7th Sep 2009 18:54
Update: TGC has the bug fix in place. Just download and install.

An update: I've submitted the bug fix, the encryption enhancement, the separate DFS Get$ and DFS Get (strings and numbers) as well as modified DFS Put so that you don't need to do a string conversion before placing it in a file.

DFS Put 1, "Name", Name$
DFS Put 1, "Age", Age

Age = DFS Get(1, "Age")
Name$ = DFS Get$(1, "Name")

Encryption:
DFS Create 1, "People.dat", 1 `1 - Encrypt, 0 - Normal

I've been asked about creating user defined encryption keys and that will be in the next update. I mainly wanted to get the bug fix out first so others can use it without further delay.

I'm pretty sure TGC will notify us when it is ready for downloading. I'd keep my fingers crossed that it works but have you ever tried typing like that? It looks worse than the stuff I write already!

Thank you everyone for being patient with me.

Steele

P.S.: It didn't break any of my test files however, back up your data files just in case. It shouldn't, however, it's a safety precaution.

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Duffer
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Posted: 7th Sep 2009 21:33
@ Steele,

Have now downloaded my Order. Tried to run the example dbpro dark data example in projects - seems to recognise all the commands in the code from the ini. However, when I go to compile it runs aground at line 8 (the DFS Create line) reporting the error that "Parameter Mismatch in command 'DFS Create' at line 8."...

The line 8 reads:-

" DFS Create 3, "item.dat", 1 `1 = encrypted"

help...

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
Steele
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Posted: 8th Sep 2009 02:35
That's weird. What happens if you take off the " ,1"? That's a new feature for encryption which is in the new version. If it runs without, it is still version 1.0.

We'll get it resolved. Sorry for not coming by earlier, I've been somewhat ill this weekend.

Oh, when did you download it? They put an update in today but I'm not sure what time. You may need to redownload.

Thanks, between TGC and myself we'll figure it out.

Steele

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Flatlander
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Posted: 8th Sep 2009 07:44 Edited at: 8th Sep 2009 07:45
I just downloaded the "newer" version with the encryption and I get the same error.

I suspected a problem with the second parameter. I first replaced it with a 0, then a space instead of a comma and finally leaving off the ",1" altogether. It works without the ",1".

I was still getting a hang up, however, and only a black screen. I rem'ed out all of the code between the repeat and until except for i$ = upper$(inkey$()). It still hung up. I have used repeat/until before without problems but decided to change it to a do/loop instead. I made another case statement for exiting the loop.

case "Q":
exit
endcase

It works this way with all the code. Go figure.

-----------------------------------------------
Duffer
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Posted: 8th Sep 2009 09:52
@ Steele,

I have latest version of Dark Data and DBPro and would echo what Flatlander says.... help....

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
Steele
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Posted: 8th Sep 2009 17:31 Edited at: 8th Sep 2009 17:44
Okay, let me check. Maybe I did something wrong in sending TGC the file. It's got to be something simple like that.

I'll get back to you as quick as I can.

[Edit] It sounds like it's still an old version of the .dll itself. Do you have to some kind of reinstall after downloading? I don't have a license or anything like that so I can't actually install it to see.

Worst case, I'm going to rebundle it and submit once more. It takes the ,1 or ,0 on my side and without it, it becomes a syntax error.

Can you check the version of the .dll in the plugins-licensed folder? It should show 1.1.0.0 on the icon itself.

Steele

http://www.lanningsoftware.com
Your source for Games and Entertainment
Jeku
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Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posted: 8th Sep 2009 18:12
TGC should really put the version number of the plugin in the .zip file name --- i.e. DarkData_0.2.zip or something like that. How do we ever know when it's updated if it's just called DarkData.zip?


Senior Web Developer - Nokia
Steele
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Joined: 25th Oct 2003
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
Posted: 8th Sep 2009 18:23
Thanks Jeku,

Okay, that is the old one. It was 1.0.0.2 and I'm now on 1.1.0.0. I had an e-mail yesterday morning stating that it was updated. It's what I feared.

I'm still checking to see if there is something I missed on my side although it looks intact. Still, I'm not satisfied until I've tried everything.

As for DarkData.zip and the name itself, you may have to ask TGC. I send them setup.exe and they do the rest. However, they might have something under their upgrades page to show the latest.

I'll check into that. I'm just rambling as I think.

Steele

http://www.lanningsoftware.com
Your source for Games and Entertainment

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