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Dark GDK / Physics plug-in powered by PhysX

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Matty H
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 14:39
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Could you go to that file(PhysX.cpp) and that line(91) and copy some of the code to show me what is there, its just that my version has changed so that line may be different in my PhysX.cpp file, thanks.

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kklouzal
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 18:12
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assert (anActor); //this is line 91 of PhysX.cpp

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Matty H
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 19:48
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I have just looked at your project thread, I will give you a new version of Fulcrum by the end of the week, it won't have all the features I was hoping for this release but hopefully it will sort the issues you are having.

What are all the issues you are having at the moment with Fulcrum?
1. Objects rotation does not update - fixed.
2.
3.
etc..
just so I know I have addressed them all before I release anything.

As for the current problem, that 'assert' means the box actor has not been created, strange that only one person gets this, I will try your project later or tomorrow and see if it works for me.

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kklouzal
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 20:22
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Current Known Issues:
1. Objects rotation does not update.
2. Sometimes an actor does not create when it should(hardly ever does this happen but every once in a while it does)
3. If I create a box 1x1x1 and create a physics actor for it, then scale the box to 2x2x2 the physics actor is still 1x1x1, currently I just delete the actor, scale, then create a new actor, could the actor recognise the scale and adjust automatically retaining the kinetic values etc?
4. Make it into a library so there isnt a need for all the random jumble of physics files in my project explorer

Thats all, unless you have created a basic 'weld' function that lets me weld 2 actors together, either from a specific xyz to xyz or just from each objects center.

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Matty H
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 21:10 Edited at: 15th Mar 2010 21:11
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1. Fixed
2. I will need to investigate, what were you doing when you noticed it, in the demo I created a wall of about 100 cubes and about 30 steps and it always works so it must be when you do something a particular way, would be great if you could give more detail of when it happens.
3. PhysX has no official way to scaling actors, deleting it and creating another is the only way to achieve this.
4. Will provide as a library

I now have a compound actor function, you create two or more shapes relative to (0, 0, 0) and the create the actor with these shapes, the actors local centre will be at (0, 0, 0). Will this work for you?

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kklouzal
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Posted: 15th Mar 2010 21:51 Edited at: 15th Mar 2010 21:52
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I will make it work if not, wont need any weld/ballsockets etc..for a long time now

As for the error box, it seems to just be random, if you create the same actor 100 times over it might error when creating the 41 actor, and next time it might error when creating the 99th actor, sometimes it doesnt error at all.. it seems to be a bit different from pc to pc

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Matty H
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Posted: 16th Mar 2010 00:09
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Quote: "if you create the same actor 100 times over"


Could you show me a bit of code that reproduces this error, thanks?
Maybe ask anyone who gets this error to try my demo .exe and see if that works.

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kklouzal
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Posted: 16th Mar 2010 00:24
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This is the bit of code that controls the creation of every block you make.



This is the code that does the scaling of blocks, which is the only other time we are making physics actors.

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Matty H
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Posted: 16th Mar 2010 01:05
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Thanks, I'll try that, I appreciate all the help you are giving me, helping me find bugs.

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kklouzal
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Posted: 16th Mar 2010 01:19
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No problem

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Matty H
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Posted: 16th Mar 2010 11:17
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@kklouzal - I tried your project, I too get the assert(line 91).
I see this as good news as its better when I can re-produce the issue.
I presume that a box actor is created upon running the program, can you show me the code where this box is created, also, does any scaling happen at the start?.

This assertion error usually mean that you have tried to create a box which does not have valid attributes.

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kklouzal
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Posted: 16th Mar 2010 17:59 Edited at: 16th Mar 2010 21:27
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I don't create any objects before the gdk loop..This error does not show up for me right off the bat it seems so random I don't understand that..

That code is called directly after


Here is the localplayer.create function


Here is the scaler.create function


The project has gotten kinda large I can email you the entire thing if you'd like...

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dark coder
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Posted: 17th Mar 2010 12:59
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I gave this a quick go because I'm in need of a small physics wrapper but there are several issues I came across right away.

* The wrapper compiles with loads of warnings with /W3 set and you must define 'CRT_SECURE_NO_WARNINGS' to not get complaints about your usage of the strcpy/strcat etc. You should have used the safer versions from the beginning and using /W3 at the very least should be standard

* I get a crash in 'physics::stop()' whenever 'delete itsAllocator;' is called, this works fine if I comment it out however

* The way the triangle mesh objects are setup is completely wrong(pretty sure it's mainly the rotation), when I first added collisions to my scene and looked at the debugger I had limbs everywhere and some were even the wrong size. Re-exporting the limbs to not have any scale/rotation worked, but if I then rotate the models then they rotate incorrectly in the physics world

The last issue is the most important for my needs and hopefully it will get fixed soon.

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Matty H
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Posted: 17th Mar 2010 16:00
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@kklouzal and dark coder
I have cleared Saturday and Sunday to spend lots of time on Fulcrum, I will try to address all the issues you mention.

@dark coder - I was exporting a map from 3DWS(dbo) yesterday and I noticed that some of the limbs were not in the correct places, I fixed it by making a mesh and re-creating the object but I will look at this in detail so no work arounds are needed.
What application are you exporting from?

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kklouzal
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Posted: 17th Mar 2010 18:17 Edited at: 17th Mar 2010 20:35
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Alright, hopfully the weekend will bring good news!

EDIT: Since the rotations do not update does that mean that the positions don't aswell? I wanted to double check before I went ripping through my code xD

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Matty H
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Posted: 17th Mar 2010 23:05
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@dark coder

The triangle mesh problem really worried me so I just looked at it and it turns out I fixed that ages ago but have not updated, oops.
Turns out that it works perfect for x files but dbo files from 3DWS are a little different so I will still look at it and update at the weekend hopefully working for both file types.

It seems that when you get an x files mesh count, it matches the limb amount but when exporting from 3DWS as dbo it does not.

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dark coder
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Posted: 18th Mar 2010 03:43
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Quote: "The triangle mesh problem really worried me so I just looked at it and it turns out I fixed that ages ago but have not updated, oops"


Cool, the .x files are initially exported from 3DS Max using the Panda X exporter, I then use the DX SDK's Mesh View to resave it because GDK doesn't like the normals Panda saves and then I resave the model again through DBPro to .dbo, so the files themselves should be perfect for GDK. Anyway if the next update doesn't work as expected I'll make some example models so you can test with them.

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Matty H
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Posted: 18th Mar 2010 16:34
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Cool, as for the 'delete itsAllocator', could you try the following:



This is what it is on new the version as we had an issue here before, if you try this and it works then I know its the same issue, if not, I will take another look.

Seems that you should not try to release everything while it is simulating, makes sense I suppose.

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TechLord
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Posted: 18th Mar 2010 17:23
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Hi matty,

I've been following your progress. I admire your dedication as the Physics Wrapper has turned out to be a separate project in itself. I'm starting to get into the core functionality of Gizmo/Gadgets and have been flushing out DarkLUA and Box2D implementation along the way. I really look forward to integrating Fulcrum with MAUI.

If we apply the same focus and dedication to each system within S3GE, I have no doubt that we will churn a very powerful Game Engine with DGDK. Keep up the good work.

Super 3D Game Engine (S3GE) - The Ultimate All-in-1 3D Game Engine in development with Dark GDK.
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Matty H
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Posted: 18th Mar 2010 18:57
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@Techlord - This weekend may be a good time for me to commit the update of Fulcrum to the project. I'm still a couple of features short of it being a complete collision solution, mainly raycasting, groups and triggers, although I have looked at each of these and they seem quite straight forward. I am currently just trying to make what is there now more stable and user friendly(more error messages etc).

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kklouzal
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Posted: 18th Mar 2010 23:41
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If I try to dbPositionObject after it has been made into a physics actor the function has no effect, so do you plan on creating a physics.MoveActor to set it in a new position?

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Matty H
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Posted: 18th Mar 2010 23:46
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Quote: "If I try to dbPositionObject after it has been made into a physics actor the function has no effect, so do you plan on creating a physics.MoveActor to set it in a new position?"


Yeh, I've already done it, although as you may know, it should be used sparingly as moving it manualy like this upsets the simulation.

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kklouzal
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Posted: 19th Mar 2010 01:43
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What are the concequences? for instance:

2 players
1 block

player A owns the block
player A sets physics enabled on block

physics are now enabled on block 1 for both players

every X seconds block 1 updates on player B's screen to the position of block 1 in player A's game (since player A owns block 1) just in case the position of block 1 is different for player B than that of player A (again since player A owns the block)

I enable physics for the object on each client, and update the players that dont own the block of the position held by the owner so that an action like 2 blocks hitting each other that are owned by different players is done in realtime for each client and the end result relayed accordingly. (that was a mouthfull)


SO is this going to be a bad situation?

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Matty H
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Posted: 19th Mar 2010 02:50 Edited at: 19th Mar 2010 02:52
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Quote: "Network Synchronization
In general the use of additional physics for networked games requires network synchronization between the different clients. This is especially required for game play physics, e.g. rigid bodies which can block an opponent. There are different approaches to network synchronization, e.g. the server-client based model or an improved authority based model.
In case of the server-client based model, the server collects information from the clients, performs the physics simulation and updates the clients. Since this approach can cause huge latency lags, the client in general performs its own physics simulation (client side prediction) and updates it’s internal state with the parameters received from the server. In general this works fine. In case the client based physics simulation e.g. of a rigid body is too far off from the server based simulation, the client snaps the rigid body back into proper location. If the delta is small enough, this adjustment can also be performed gradually. This approach works fairly well as long as the amount of synchronized events is relatively small.
In case of a large synchronized rigid body world, an authority scheme can yield much better results in regards to synchronization problems (snapping). In the authority managed model, the server keeps track of game updates (default authority). In order to avoid snapping, the client can take authority over objects he interacts with. The server in this case accepts state changes for those objects from the client. If required, the server can overwrite the updates from the client to make sure that all state changes are properly in sync.
Most of the non rigid body simulation can be simulated completely on the client or only requires state changes (e.g. particle emitter state and position).
Small rigid bodies: as long as they rigid bodies are not game play affecting, they don’t need to be synced.
Particles: As long as the particles are used purely as effects particles, no synchronization is required and the simulation can run completely on the client. If the particles can cause a major change in visibility, the emitter location as well as the emitter rate can be synced if required. This will ensure that all clients have to deal with almost the same visibility problems.
Cloth: As long as cloth is not affecting gameplay, a client based simulation is enough. Similar to particles, there can be slight visible differences between clients, but overall those should be neglectable since cloth is moving all the time. In case of cloth tearing, the torn cloth pieces (vertices) can be synced to ensure that the torn cloth pieces look similar (but not the cloth simulation itself is synchronized). In general it is not required to run the cloth simulation on the server, but in case of metal cloth with longer lasting visible changes it is of advantage to run the metal cloth on the server to ensure proper visibility propagation to all clients. The client metal cloth simulation might be a little off compared to the server based simulation, but in general this should be neglectable. "


PhysX tips

I'm not the best person to advise about netwoking but I think the above implies that you are doing it correct as long as you are not "snapping" too many actors too often.


Also, there are a couple of other things that are not recommended that you should know about. Firstly, try not to release(or create, I think) actors in between simulate() and getPhysicsresults(), in other words, while the physics is simulating.
With scaling, PhysX does not really support it, it is fine to delete, scale and recreate as long as you follow the above, but if you are doing it in real time it will upset the simulation, scaling like this is fine for editors etc.. but I would not recommend relying on it as an in-game feature.
If you are doing lots of scaling in real-time then you should think about scaling your object every loop for smooth visuals but only scaling the physics actor every so often, maybe 5 times a second.

Good luck

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kklouzal
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Posted: 19th Mar 2010 05:34
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Alright, so is it getphysicsresults() ends the simulation and simulation() starts it?

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Matty H
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Posted: 19th Mar 2010 15:36
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Yeh, I'm thinking about changing the update() function so it does not start or end the simulation, it will be left to the user(you) to simulate() and getPhysicsResults() as you see fit.
Leaving them in the update() function may cause issues with things not being done in the correct order.
The update() function will then only be used to update all actors and controllers, although I will include commands to update actors/controllers individually as well, giving you more control.

I will put a document or example together explaining the order in which things should be done.

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Merak Spielman
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Posted: 21st Mar 2010 06:50
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Will this plug-in enable me to make an outer space environment with gravity effects, orbiting bodies, and so forth?
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Merak Spielman
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Posted: 21st Mar 2010 08:16
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Quote: "Will this plug-in enable me to make an outer space environment with gravity effects, orbiting bodies, and so forth? "

Nevermind, figured it out. Looks like I just set gravity to 0,0,0 and then use Applyforce to each element in the simulation, relative to each other element, according to gravitational equations.

So yeah might lag a bit after a few dozen bodies all interacting with each other... but doable.
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Matty H
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Posted: 21st Mar 2010 12:21
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I have not implemented force fields yet but after seeing this:
Force field gravity
Its going to be high up op my to-do list.

There are other ways to do it but the force field way may be the simplest, once I put it in.

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Matty H
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Posted: 21st Mar 2010 13:31 Edited at: 21st Mar 2010 13:32
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@Merak Spielman
I seen your post in the Physics section but I will answer here as other people using this lib may find it useful.

First declare the position of the centre of your planet:


Then use this in your loop:



This shows it works but it needs to be altered so that the magnitude(1000 above) is divided by the square of the distance on each component(x, y, z), that should simulate gravity better.

Catch, the above will not work for you until you update to next version which should be released within the next 12 hours

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Merak Spielman
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Posted: 21st Mar 2010 16:50
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Thanks.

So you're using 1000 as placeholder data for the total Force?

So to make this work with multiple planets/bodies interacting, I'd use the dbObjectPosition of each relative body, do a loop to calculate the forces applied to each one by each other one, and then update the simulation.

Right?
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Matty H
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Posted: 21st Mar 2010 17:37
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I just pulled 1000 out of the air, its kind of a gravitational constant.

Should not be too difficult to use with multiple planets, just plug in the planets position instead of my constant gravity point.
You could create a function:



Something like that anyway

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Matty H
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2010 02:10
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V1.2 is available on the first post, for you guys who are using Fulcrum in any existing projects there are a few changes you have to make.

The include name has changed:


To declare your physics:


Start() command now only takes one parameter(or none) and the character controller commands have changed slightly.
Do not use update() now, use updateActors() and updateControllers() if you need them. You also need to call simulate() and getPhysicsResults() yourself. I will put some more examples together when I get time.

There are now no window messages to explain any mistakes you make, I will put them back in the next version, they were causing warnings.

Let me know if you have any trouble, I will be available to make any fixes as they are needed, I never got to do much testing but everything seems to work fine, thanks guys.

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dark coder
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2010 03:44 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2010 03:56
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I notice you didn't provide the source this time, that is fine, but please compile the library with decent settings.

The following are settings that my(and loads of other) libraries often use, of course these won't work for standard versions of GDK because GDK by default is compiled with rather silly settings:

DEBUG

RELEASE

Also I'm not sure if it's important to compiling libraries but my debug build doesn't ignore any libraries, but my release one ignores: atls, atlsd, libcmt

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Matty H
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2010 15:06
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Its the first time I've made a Lib, I'm a total Lib noob, thanks for the info dark coder, has the way I have done it caused you any issues? Also, have all the issues you had before gone away?

I will look into it in more detail next time, I wanted to release it when I said I would and it was a bit of a rush.

As for the source, I'm not sure I want it open source anymore as if I make a pro version(rag doll, fluids etc), I might want to charge for it, or maybe not, just keeping my options open, besides it seems that most people wanted it as a Lib. Anyway I still have lots to add to this version before I even think about that.

Hope it works for you, I will make minor updates if there are any issues.

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kklouzal
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2010 16:12
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Awesome! its finally here! i'm in the middle of rewriting my game to incorporate lua so after its back up to speed i'll add the new physics and test err out!

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dark coder
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2010 16:23
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Quote: "Its the first time I've made a Lib, I'm a total Lib noob, thanks for the info dark coder, has the way I have done it caused you any issues? Also, have all the issues you had before gone away?"


I can't even compile my project with the settings you used because they differ from all of my other libraries by too much, but I'm using a recompiled version of GDK so I'm not even sure if you can compile with the settings I gave. If you'd like I could upload my GDK libraries and headers so you can recompile your project using them, or you could provide the source so I can do this myself.

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Matty H
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2010 16:46
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@ dark coder - I noticed I get this when I compile:

Quote: "1>FulcrumPhy.lib(physics.obj) : MSIL .netmodule or module compiled with /GL found; restarting link with /LTCG; add /LTCG to the link command line to improve linker performance"


I never had time to look into what this meant, do you think if I fix this it will work for you?


Quote: "If you'd like I could upload my GDK libraries and headers so you can recompile your project using them"

Yeh, sure, I'll try that. I'll just have to always have two versions, standard and dark coder version.

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dark coder
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2010 18:55 Edited at: 22nd Mar 2010 18:55
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OK, you can grab the libraries HERE, compile using the settings above. I can't remember if I changed the headers or not so if it doesn't compile then let me know, as I didn't include them.

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Matty H
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2010 23:34
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This is how I think I should go about it but I think I may be wrong, I make a new console app(static lib), I then tell it to use your DarkGDK libs instead, but same header files. I put the FulcrumPhy source in the source folder etc..

I then change the settings so they are the same as the pics you provided and then build to create my lib.

The problem is that when I'm in the console app(static lib) most of the options on them pictures are not there any more. I must be wrong on how to do this, could you point me in the right direction.
Its something I really want to do as I need to know more about libs etc. Plus, I know you have lots of experience so I would really like your input on my plug-in, thanks.

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FERSIS
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2010 00:30
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Hi, when i try to compile the 1.2 example i got this error:

1>fatal error C1900: Il mismatch between 'P1' version '20080116' and 'P2' version '20070207'
1>LINK : fatal error LNK1257: code generation failed

And yeah, i set up the library and include folders.
Any ideas?

Windows XP SP3.
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dark coder
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2010 05:20
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OK these are the same things but for a library, in this case lua, but because you're compiling it with GDK you may need to ignore some of the libs I mentioned for the debug build because one of the GDK libraries depends on another library that I don't have access to so I couldn't rebuild it with all of these settings.

DEBUG

RELEASE

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Matty H
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2010 15:25 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2010 15:37
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@Fersis - I just tried it on my XP machine and it works, what version of visual studio are you running?
I do have one idea of what it could be, I will look into it and get back to you.

EDIT: Have you tried to use the plug-in in one of your own projects? let me know if that works, thanks.

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Matty H
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2010 16:05
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@Fersis - Could you try it with the new Lib folder(attached), thanks.

fulcrum physics - free collision/physics plug-in for DarkGDK

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Matty H
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2010 22:17 Edited at: 23rd Mar 2010 22:31
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@dark coder - Have you tried the Lib attached in the post above, just a long shot.

Also, I'm just learning here but I don't understand why it makes a difference which DGDK Libs I build the my Lib with, standard or your custom built ones, does my Lib rely so heavily on the settings the DGDK Libs were built with and why?


EDIT: Here is a lib built with the settings you provided the first time(release), I'm still hoping that the one from the post above will work though as that will probably be the standard one now.

fulcrum physics - free collision/physics plug-in for DarkGDK

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dark coder
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2010 22:29
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Quote: "Also, I'm just learning here but I don't understand why it makes a difference which DGDK Libs I build the my Lib with, standard or your custom built ones, does my Lib rely so heavily on the settings the DGDK Libs were built with and why?"


Just by including DarkGDK.h you're making it a dependency of your library, the .lib files you compile are binaries of the code in your source files and these reference GDK, thus any settings GDK used and your library is compiled with will affect my project. In my case I'm using completely different runtime libraries to you and the version of GDK you compiled with, so it's no surprise I get so many issues because you can't mix and match something so fundamental to the language.

And no, that library doesn't compile with my project, it also doesn't indicate in its name if it's a debug or release build(big difference).

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Matty H
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2010 22:35
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I think I understand, all Libs I have uploaded are release, thats something else I don't really understand, should I be building my Lib in debug or release or have two, one of each?

Anyway, I edited post above yours before you posted, hopefully that may work.

fulcrum physics - free collision/physics plug-in for DarkGDK
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Matty H
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Posted: 24th Mar 2010 00:47
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v1.2.1
The download on the first post has been altered slightly as I think I built the Lib wrong and it may have caused issues, would be great if someone could test it for me, thanks.

fulcrum physics - free collision/physics plug-in for DarkGDK
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FERSIS
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Posted: 24th Mar 2010 03:13
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Thanks for the fast response.
Works fine here. (v1.2.1)
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dark coder
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Posted: 24th Mar 2010 08:27
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Quote: "should I be building my Lib in debug or release or have two, one of each?"


One of each, and clearly name them as such, or put them in different folders.


Quote: "Anyway, I edited post above yours before you posted, hopefully that may work."


It does, though I remembered that it doesn't work directly with my library because all of my objects are transformed around the camera, with your 1.1 version I modified your update routines to write positions to my library rather than alter the GDK object positions but that isn't possible right now.

Would it be possible for you to just post the changes made to the triangle mesh setup functions so I can just use the 1.1 version? As the library right now isn't really compatible with my scene setup and I only need that one thing fixed and all this back and forth is eating into a lot of time.

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