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Work in Progress / World Off Road

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C0wbox
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Posted: 13th Jul 2010 18:23
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@ swissolo
I will have a look at timing issues on WOR.

The shadow error occurs with the car's shadow on the water as well. - There is nothing I can do because I am using built in shadows.

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swissolo
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Posted: 13th Jul 2010 19:32 Edited at: 13th Jul 2010 21:34
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@ baxslash:
using labels cuts out some lines, that's all, and it's easier to say change FrameTimer() to FrameTimer: than global FrameX#, global FrameLast...

swis
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C0wbox
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Posted: 16th Jul 2010 03:01
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World Off Road's overall game structure has been altered and will be changing as of v0.17

Here are the details:
1. Multiplayer won't have other-car collisions. This is so all cars can start at the same place and time as well as insuring the game is fair - i.e. no one can block other cars. The fact that all cars will start at the same place and the engine restructure I'm working on at the moment will mean the only limit on servers will be 255 (the DBP limit) but obviously something like 4-8 players is advisable due to networking and application restrictions.
2. Due to multiplayer having no other-car collisions, splitscreen will no longer be projected for use with online multiplayer (so sorry anyone who really wanted to play a 4 man game on 2 PCs) as much as I regret doing this, I have no choice. - Dark Physics does not allow me to ignore collisions, so while both the splitscreen cars would be dynamically colliding with the map, I can't stop them from colliding with each other. Now, potentially I could say, "Ahh screw it, we'll allow them online multiplayer access too" but on any server where someone is using 2 cars on 1 client, there would always be 2 cars that are colliding and the rest not... (So it would get really silly. xD)
3. Single player will be broken into 2 parts; the first will be for setting times on your own as you would in multiplayer, the second would be to do pretty much what splitscreen does, but against an AI controlled car, so collisions with the other car will be on once again.

This change in game structure will overall make the game fairer on everyone whilst insuring good ideas like splitscreen can still function as a sort of "muck-around" game mode.

These decisions are final as any dwindling over them will result in WOR not being completed... - and no one wants that to happen.

These changes are in light of the fact that games like TrackMania Nations and TrackMania United execute these methods of play very well and are very popular. - They also sparked a wave of free online games that I am trying my best to replicate in a different environment, with some added extras (i.e. the competitive splitscreen and AI game modes)

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swissolo
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Posted: 16th Jul 2010 17:56
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I still don't see why you can't have 2 "online" modes, one with 4-8 players that collide, and the other a real-time-time-trial mode where the others are ghosts, but it doesn't matter. What you think is best is best. Good luck!

swis
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C0wbox
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Posted: 16th Jul 2010 19:36
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@ swissolo
The reason is that due to the dynamicicity of the tracks, I don't have a fair way of spawning all 4/8 players at the start line sensibly. To do this would just be a sort of added extra for the game which I can't be wasting time figuring out how to code.

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swissolo
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Posted: 16th Jul 2010 23:47 Edited at: 16th Jul 2010 23:49
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I don't know what you mean by that (dynamicicity ) but if you mean it wouldn't be fair, I think I lot of games just expect you to live with it, lucky or unlucky. Some people might start in the back, and it could gives pros a challange or something. It doesn't matter though.

swis
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C0wbox
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Posted: 19th Jul 2010 02:38 Edited at: 19th Jul 2010 02:38
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@ swissolo
By dynamicicity I mean how dynamic something is.

In this case, I was referring to the fact the game is designed so I can just make a terrain and plonk the game pieces down onto it and it'll work. (This is dynamic | Non dynamic would be coding everything in DBP for example (something I have long since stopped doing))

Now, because I wanted this game to be so dynamic, I don't want to restrict myself whenever I make a map because I'm worrying about "where all 255 cars will spawn at the start line" (which after all, is either 2 trees or a broken pilon and a pilar) ... so this is why I am doing what TrackMania do very successfully and just not getting involved in such sillies.



For people who want to drive cars into other cars you can play the splitscreen or AI modes. - Or any of the other 3000 off road racing games there are out there. (Have fun when noobs block checkpoints on races though...)



On a lighter note

After 7 hours (precisely) of coding the multiplayer side of WOR, I have finally gotten it working.

This is an appalling announcement in my opinion, because when I think of multiplayer I usually think "Oh that's not too hard, maybe an hours work"

The 7 hours are outlined below:
I spent 3 hours tinkering with previous DBP_net (default DBP multiplayer commands) code to get simple implementation into WOR only to discover for some completely unexplainable reason DBP_net was not dropping its UDP packets. So the clients would receive only the very first packet and keep receiving it over and over again. I was rather annoyed
I then came back to it over 24 hours later and started working my way through the DarkNet CubeWorld example from the site (not the 1 that comes with it) to extract the relevant parts and cut out all the needless labelling and dumbing down it was doing.
1 hour later I had a Soharix-standardized version of CubeWorld with only the parts I needed.
<1 hour after that I'd successfully split the code into server and client and got it working.
2 hours after that, I finally got it implemented into WOR and got the first multiplayer-cars in the game.

World Off Road can only improve from here.

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baxslash
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Posted: 19th Jul 2010 10:24
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Quote: "After 7 hours (precisely) of coding the multiplayer side of WOR, I have finally gotten it working."

I look forward to racing you then!

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C0wbox
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Posted: 19th Jul 2010 16:39
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@ baxslash
Unfortunately, you'll still have to wait for v0.17, with the revamped menu and Trax before you get a chance.

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swissolo
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Posted: 19th Jul 2010 20:15 Edited at: 21st Jul 2010 04:40
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swis

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C0wbox
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Posted: 19th Jul 2010 21:12
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?[b][/b]

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ghostkrashers
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Posted: 20th Jul 2010 01:23
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That looks cool!
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swissolo
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Posted: 20th Jul 2010 01:49
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@ C0wbox:
just trying to make the post more interesting.

swis
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C0wbox
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Posted: 20th Jul 2010 02:54
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@ ghostkrashers
Thanks

@ swissolo
Only people in Soharix get access to v0.165 (Blobby 101 and I have been messing with it today to see what needs fixing etc. we certainly found a few problems with the net-play.)

@ Everyone interested in playing online
World Off Road will only be available on whatever DBP & DarkNet allow. We've always had trouble in the past getting net games working because we're all behind routers and can't forward ports because we're noobs. (or have parents who control the internet for us) But we just use Hamachi to test and "LAN" with each other. While I would just say "Use a VPN to play WOR" I can't be sure it wouldn't work with port-forwarding, and I also don't know if it works on just any old VPN. So while this isn't a direct advertisement for Hamachi, it's what we all use, and we know it works.

On that note, for the v0.17 release, I will be setting up a Hamachi network specially for those interested in testing v0.17 (and possibly later versions). This is because you can never have too many testers and some who download v0.17 may not have anyone else they can play with to give us feedback, so why not just test with us.

More details to come on the Hamachi VPN I'll be setting up for v0.17 closer to release.

Checklist for release:
* Remodel Trax - Not done (25%)
* Redesign the menu - Not done (70%)
* Finish coding the online parts - Not done (50%)
* Make Dunes2 - Not done (0%)

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ghostkrashers
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Posted: 21st Jul 2010 02:46
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So are you saying it will be available for an online demo? If so, can't wait (cause downloads are hell for me).?
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Dr Tank
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2010 03:59 Edited at: 22nd Jul 2010 04:00
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This is cool. Maybe the car mechanics needs a little tweaking, but I like sandboxy things with cars in. I should really make mine, but I digress.

Would be cool if you could select a different car or track without having to reload the game.

Looking at your youtube vids, it seems the game speed is different. On my comp it runs about 30fps, and the game mechanics run slowly.
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C0wbox
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2010 05:20
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@ ghostkrashers
v0.17 will be a version of WOR that works online. To get it to work online, you need to use a VPN (or forward ports). I will be setting up a VPN specially for people who view this thread to come and play WOR with me and the rest of Soharix when we're testing.

@ Dr Tank
Yeh, the car mechanics are stiff because of DarkPhysics, we can do very little to improve the feel on them so they're going to have to stay as they are .

Eventually there will be an ingame menu to go back and select new races, but for the moment the game will remain in its basic structure of "setup", "play", "end"

Yeah, the speed and mechanics will be halved if your game runs at 30FPS (it is meant to run at 66FPS) If you wish to improve performance, consult User\Options.cfg and alter some of the config settings (E.g. lower the LOD range, lower the shader detail, turn shadows off etc.)

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ghostkrashers
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2010 02:11
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So where can we play it online.
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Satchmo
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2010 02:55
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For some reason the only way I can play the game without it crashing is by choosing either arctic 1or2 and the 3rd car. Weird I know.

I have an ati gpu and physx 08.24.05 installed. When it did work it worked beautifully however.

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C0wbox
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2010 04:03
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@ Satchmo
xD That's not the first time I've heard that problem.

It seems to depend on whether you have ATI or nVidia cards and whether your drivers are up to date for said card as to whether WOR runs properly. My only suggestion is to just update you graphics drivers and see what happens. But to be honest, lots of things break for lots of people. - Even me: if I choose Rumbler on Alpine1, the shadow is broken... xD I can't win.

Regardless I am still going to try and finish this game, lacking as I am in available team members to finish their jobs. But if I can just get it finished I've got a handful of ideas for a new project after World Off Road. (Whichever one I choose should work on everyone's computers for once... )

A lot of work has gone into WOR though, so bare with it.

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Satchmo
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2010 07:16 Edited at: 23rd Jul 2010 07:16
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Why are you using darkPhysx anyways? Newton is free and should be able to do everything you need for a game like this, much more compatible as well.

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C0wbox
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2010 13:25
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@ Satchmo
Well I did ask people to make claims for Newton or Xenophysics if they support joins etc. but no one spoke up. So I stuck with DarkPhysics xD

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Melancholic
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2010 14:53
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@C0wbox, I got this running on my Pc finally, and believe me, when I have 2 hands you ll be hearing all my comments/criticisms

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C0wbox
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2010 19:09
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@ Melancholic
You don't have 2 hands at the moment?

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Blobby 101
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2010 19:50 Edited at: 23rd Jul 2010 20:03
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Broken arms Cowbox, broken Arms

EDIT: oh, that was someone else xD Oh well, maybe he has mutant growth s instead of hands that he's getting replaced?

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Melancholic
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2010 22:35
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Lol, the truth is that my left hand has a very nasty infection which is preventing me from moving it. Takes waaay to long to type like this

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C0wbox
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2010 23:44
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How rare.

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C0wbox
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Posted: 25th Jul 2010 02:49 Edited at: 25th Jul 2010 13:28
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!

We've had a tree revamp and now WOR looks awesomer, here's are some nice juicy pictures of the new trees and checkpoints.


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Melancholic
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Posted: 25th Jul 2010 14:11
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Looking good, that was actually a critisism of mine

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Deathead
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Posted: 25th Jul 2010 14:25 Edited at: 26th Jul 2010 22:01
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Hey, Cowbox remind me to send you a redone version of the palm trees, just noticed the same seam from last night.lol I'll try and sort it out, but I don't know what is happening but I'll sort it out.

Anyway I hope you lot like the new checkpoints and stuff.. Was a bugger to get right.


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swissolo
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Posted: 26th Jul 2010 21:40
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Did you make the alpine banner cloth or is it still static? Also, the reflections don't seem right on the water. Anyways I like the desert checkpoint a LOT more because the old one never really made sense to me.

swis
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C0wbox
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Posted: 26th Jul 2010 21:57
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@ swissolo
No I haven't made the checkpoint cloth because having 10 cloths around a map would undoubtedly break someone's computer and it's not exactly a useful feature considering there would be nothing to touch said cloths to move them.

There are no reflections on the water, it is set to refract only.

The original desert checkpoint was intended for what WOR was originally designed to be and hadn't been suitably corrected when WOR was turned into a racing tournament game. (WOR was originally intended to be like iD software's Rage, in a post apocalyptic landscape with lots of broken things lieing around.)

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swissolo
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Posted: 26th Jul 2010 23:10 Edited at: 26th Jul 2010 23:10
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Cloth checkpoints could be a high setting or something (you could add wind to them I guess and you could disable ones not visible, but once again it doesn't really matter.). So if the water doesn't reflect then why are there odd things like this...

I know there isn't a tree underwater.

swis

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C0wbox
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Posted: 27th Jul 2010 05:46
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@ swissolo
That's caused by the refracting camera rendering things that aren't under the water. - I can fix it to a degree but it'll be something I do at the end to polish off.

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Clonkex
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Posted: 28th Jul 2010 08:11 Edited at: 28th Jul 2010 08:22
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Hey guys,

The screenies look! I am dD\L with 3% to go so I will test in a minute. Maybe be back on here to tell you what I think.

EDIT: Ok, I got it. It's very strange. And the vehicle with the tracks looks a bit dumb cause the tracks themselves turn at a set speed. Also the wheels on the normal cars ought to steer visibly. Not just turn-on-the-spot kind of thing. Other then that, though, it's great! Neat intro thingy. I love the Badweek loading tire! Parody of Goodyear, I would assume.

Clonkex

Making games is easy.....finishing them is a different matter.

Intel Core 2 Duo 2.8Ghz, Nvidia GeForce 9400 GT 512mb, 1gb ram.
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Blobby 101
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Posted: 28th Jul 2010 12:04
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Trax isn't the final version, The only finished cars in there are Rumbler and Tense. Although, it should be possible to make the tracks on trax turn reletive to how fast it's moving (I can think of a way to do it) but I don't know how Cowbox feels about adding it.

And the wheels turning. Yeah - that's been brought up a couple of times already. The thing is, with the way the engine is set up for Dark Physics means that we can't actually do that. At least, it would require a lot of major changes to the way we handle cars which, at this point, isn't feasible.

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C0wbox
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Posted: 28th Jul 2010 19:01
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Took the words right out my mouth *fingers.


@ Clonkex

What blobby 101 said about the physics engine is largely correct; we can't make the wheels turn without physically modelling the interior workings of the front axel of a real car. (All we are using is 4 cylinders bolted on to a box.)

And I'll be changing the track speeds on Trax later (as well as sorting out the fact the steering reverses when you press backwards because it's a similar issue)

(Oh and yeah, the Badweek was a parody on Goodyear )

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Melancholic
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Posted: 29th Jul 2010 19:02
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Quote: "What blobby 101 said about the physics engine is largely correct; we can't make the wheels turn without physically modelling the interior workings of the front axel of a real car. (All we are using is 4 cylinders bolted on to a box.)"


Could you not just rotate the wheels when either of the arrow keys are pressed?, though it would not be very accurate it would make a big difference to the look. Though in my oppinion suspension is a must in this game, although it may be hard to implement i think the improvement it would make would be worth it.


I can count to banana...
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C0wbox
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Posted: 29th Jul 2010 20:24
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@ Melancholic
It's not about "difficulty of implementation" it is about the fact we simply cannot.

Think of a coin laying flat on a table. - There is no way to rotate that coin other than on the axis perpendicular to the table surface. - This is the same issue with the wheels.

Suspension on the vehicles is the same - DarkPhysics simply has no feature for suspension: there is no way to model it.

Sorry to everyone I've tried to explain this to, this is a better explanation but still, it cannot be done.

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Melancholic
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Posted: 29th Jul 2010 22:00
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Aaaaaaaah i get you, seems like your problem is being stuck with global rotation instead of local rotation, ive never seen anbody do or even attempt local rotation, though thats not to say it could not be done

Still though, ive played this game atlast and i can say although it is good, there is lots to be improved. First of all its a good foundation, but i felt it was let down alot by the terrain textures, its just all the same, maybe add variation. Maybe some change in texture at the top of the mountains?.


I can count to banana...
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C0wbox
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Posted: 30th Jul 2010 03:53
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@ Melancholic
xD Part of the reason for making the textures too samey is because you can really easily tell they're looping due to the polygon count on each terrain.

And as alpine is already on top of a mountain there would be no change, and dunes just, well, they are that colour... xD So there's not a lot I can do.

I'll see if I can make it a bit more interesting when I make Swamp1 and Swamp2.

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Melancholic
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Posted: 30th Jul 2010 12:01
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I see what you mean, but there is still variation even if it is a top of a mountain. To show what i mean i made a quick terrain of the top of a mountain.

Another solution is vertex shading(this can mean more then one thing), basically a method of adding more color to the same textures. Your using T.ed right?, i also have it and im pretty sure it has it built in


I can count to banana...

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swissolo
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Posted: 30th Jul 2010 19:23 Edited at: 30th Jul 2010 19:24
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@ Melancholic
Nice terrian! WOR would look even better if it looked like that.

swis
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charger bandit
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Posted: 31st Jul 2010 10:38
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Hey,would you be interested in brand new shiny cars? I just finished modelling a Land Rover so I guessed you could use it.


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OldPMan
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Posted: 31st Jul 2010 11:56 Edited at: 31st Jul 2010 11:59
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good job C0wbox.

I, too, could share a typewriter for free. I have long been lying TRICYCLE. If you need to let me know.



.....already beside..... for all
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C0wbox
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Posted: 31st Jul 2010 13:29 Edited at: 31st Jul 2010 13:30
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@ Melancholic
Yeah that terrain looks nicer than mine, , I'll investigate the vertex shading.

@ charger bandit & RUSSIA
As long as you can give me the following:
* A texture
* A front wheel model
* A back wheel model
then I should be able to use your vehicles.

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OldPMan
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Posted: 31st Jul 2010 14:23 Edited at: 31st Jul 2010 14:41
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Quote: "As long as you can give me the following:
* A texture
* A front wheel model
* A back wheel model
then I should be able to use your vehicles."


Do you mean by separate objects front and back wheels?
If yes:
In my tricycle pivot the front wheel in the center but it is a child of steering rods. How can I better EXPORT front wheel with steering bars or just 1 wheel?

edit:

I saved it both ways. see the attach file. go?

.....already beside..... for all

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Melancholic
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Posted: 31st Jul 2010 17:52
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Quote: "@ Melancholic
Yeah that terrain looks nicer than mine, , I'll investigate the vertex shading. "


Thanks, but making stuff like that really takes no effort in l3dt . If you want you could send me the terrain files and ill redo the texture for them in that style


I can count to banana...
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C0wbox
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Posted: 31st Jul 2010 19:34 Edited at: 31st Jul 2010 21:12
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@ RUSSIA
Ok, I'll have a go at getting Trike to work but I need you to send me the rear wheel as 1 object. (I load it twice for each wheel, so I don't want both wheels in the same object)

You also need to centre each wheel on the origin (where the axises cross) so that they turn properly. - The body is also 90 degrees off and doesn't automatically load the texture.

xD So far, not going well. - Please go and check how the other cars are doing it and try to replicate the same format of, Body.x, Front.x, Back.x, where each model loads a texture automatically and the wheels are aligned to rotate around the Y axis.

@ Melancholic
Quote: "If you want you could send me the terrain files and ill redo the texture for them in that style"

That'd be a great help, but I'll do that once I've got all 6 done. (Only 3 are done at the moment)

You're welcome to try it out though on the v0.16 terrains and see if they can be put back into the game to work at the same scale etc.

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Melancholic
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Posted: 31st Jul 2010 21:31
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I'm going to try make a new texture for one of you tracks , though by the looks of it, it wont be easy, firstly your using a .x for the terrain, im used to working with heightmaps :p and your textures are in 4 parts...


I can count to banana...
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