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Geek Culture / 19 year old kid locked up in jail for sarcastic joke.

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TheComet
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 16:16
Holy crap Pincho, you really are the most thick-skulled thing I've ever had the pleasure to encounter.

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 16:16
Somebody has to lead the way.

TheComet
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 16:19
Maybe so, but that doesn't change the fact that what this 19 year old kid did is a crime if you live in Texas.

KeithC
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 16:21 Edited at: 12th Jul 2013 16:21
It appears Pincho is trolling then. There's a cure for that too.

-Keith

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 16:23 Edited at: 12th Jul 2013 16:23
Quote: "Maybe so, but that doesn't change the fact that what this 19 year old kid did is a crime if you live in Texas."


It changes it to...

Texas has a justice system with illogical crimes in it. Somebody needs to fix that, because their crime system is illegal.

KeithC
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 16:29
Quote: "Texas has a justice system with illogical crimes in it. Somebody needs to fix that, because their crime system is illegal."

I hear convicted murderers and child rapists using the same logic every day. Yet, somehow they're still locked up for life.

-Keith

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 16:33 Edited at: 12th Jul 2013 16:34
Quote: "I hear convicted murderers and child rapists using the same logic every day. Yet, somehow they're still locked up for life."


The witches were burned too... what's your point? Is your point that you can't tell what a crime is if it isn't on paper?

KeithC
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 16:35 Edited at: 12th Jul 2013 16:36
Now you're comparing mythical beings to actual real monsters? Here; this was made for you:



I'll have to see if we can come up with a new "Forum Troll" badge, and anoint certain people with it.

-Keith

rolfy
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 16:35 Edited at: 12th Jul 2013 16:46
Writing something on paper doesn't make it a crime, but writing it into Law Statutes does....whether you agree with it or not it is irrelevant. I doubt you will make Texas change this Law which in fact is in effect in most of the Western World.
I am willing to bet your not immune to it wherever you live, no matter your opinion of it, why pick on Texas?

If you really want to point the finger, point it at those who interpret it so literally without proper reasoning and investigation.

This thread is full of assumption based on media information which at best is second hand anyhow and his parents and lawyer are biased as expected, which seems to be where most of it comes from.

It does look on the surface as if things haven't been done properly here and if so it should be taken into consideration and the laws revised, but I doubt they are going to change things anytime soon.
TheComet
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 16:36
A crime is an abstract thing anyway, because it has a moral basis. So yes, it does have to be written on paper, and this paper will change over time because our moral understanding changes over time.

TheComet

KeithC
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 16:40
Good way of looking at it, Comet. I remember a few odd laws, that wouldn't go down today. One, was that it was illegal to put a cake in a cookie jar.....which led to a conundrum with people seeking to store their Fig Newtons in such a container.

Another, was that it was illegal for a wife to get a haircut without a husband's permission. Unless you're married; you wouldn't understand how laughable this would be today.

Silly laws that were changed to meet the times. Neither of those included threatening harm to others, however.

-Keith

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 16:40 Edited at: 12th Jul 2013 16:42
Quote: "Writing something on paper doesn't make it a crime, but writing it into Law Statutes does....whether you agree with it or not it is irrelevant. "


The crime is physical based on real destruction, the Law Statutes are man made, based on intolerance. If I don't agree with them it is due to my intelligence over-ruling my intolerance. Intelligence therefore over-rules Law Statutes. You just need enough intelligent people to agree.

KeithC
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 16:42
It's now clear that you fully intend to troll this thread with nothing to contribute, but to inflame things.

-Keith

Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 16:43 Edited at: 12th Jul 2013 16:44
Quote: "It's now clear that you fully intend to troll this thread with nothing to contribute, but to inflame things."


I don't follow the pack. I lead the pack. This causes head butting in males who try to regain control over the females.

It wasn't a crime, it will end up not a crime. You can't win.

rolfy
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 16:48 Edited at: 12th Jul 2013 16:49
Quote: "I don't follow the pack. I lead the pack."

Look behind you....no one there...right?
Quote: "
This causes head butting in males who try to regain control over the females."
?
KeithC
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 16:48
Let's try an experiment here. Here is the written "law" of this particular forum:

3.12 We do not tolerate 'trolling', the process of posting inflamatory messages for the sake of starting an argument, or being plain obnoxious.

And the potential result from aforementioned violation:

3.13 If your message violates any or all of the points above we reserve the right to take action against you. This can include restrictions such as: Temporary or full bans from our forum. IP/subnet/domain/ISP level blocking of access to our forum AND website, including your Order History. Refusal of all product related support. Removal of rights to purchase from our store.

Just for arguments sake; I am now going to penalize you for your violation of article 3.12 of the AUP. See if this fits with your view of the World and it's various legal processes.

-Keith

TheComet
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 16:50 Edited at: 12th Jul 2013 16:51
@ Pincho
Yes, you are way to intelligent, therefore you can just ignore our justice system and execute what the 19-year old wrote without consequences.

Now, rob that store over there for me and get me some more popcorn. I'm hungry.

Quote: "Silly laws that were changed to meet the times. Neither of those included threatening harm to others, however."


There are some extremely silly laws if you look back in time, some of which still exist today. Here in Switzerland, it's illegal to hang your clothes for drying on a Sunday. I sometimes wonder how such laws even come to be.

TheComet

KeithC
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 16:53
I think many of them were based in religion, and greed; Comet.

-Keith

MrValentine
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 16:54
KeithC - He also violated Article [ic:popcorn] which states:

[ic:popcorn] : Failure to provide popcorn along with your argument results in the removal of your Popcorn rights!

I think we all wish to see justice done!


rolfy
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 16:55 Edited at: 12th Jul 2013 17:00
Quote: "Here in Switzerland, it's illegal to hang your clothes for drying on a Sunday. I sometimes wonder how such laws even come to be."
I believe that Law still applies in the Outer Hebrides in Scotland and is enforced. And yes its the Sabbath when most ridiculous Laws are created.

It was illegal to let your horse crap on the street and not clean it up in the early 1900's UK, still stands and never changed but your unlikely to see it enforced, particularly since the only horse your likely see these days has a cop astride it.
KeithC
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 16:58
I've been holding back on unleashing the full might of TGC justice for that very heinous of crimes, Mr. V.

-Keith

MrValentine
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 17:01


Do you mean this power?



rolfy
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 17:03
Rule of thumb is a good one:
It is illegal to beat your wife with a cane thicker than you thumb.
KeithC
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 17:10
I've only used that power once here, Mr V. That's all it took.

-Keith

KeithC
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 17:17 Edited at: 12th Jul 2013 17:23
Just a little side note to our friend Pincho. Being on post moderation doesn't mean I have to approve any of your (inflammatory) posts. That is the point; the posts can either be approved or deleted, without being seen in the public eye. However; sanctions can be elevated for further instances of abuse of privileges here. Have a great day.

Edit: After your further postings (which I also deleted); you can enjoy a nice vacation, you obviously need it. Try to have a better attitude when you return.

-Keith

Green Gandalf
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 17:23 Edited at: 12th Jul 2013 17:24
Quote: "I've been holding back on unleashing the full might of TGC justice"


Phew! I thought the fun was about to come to an end for a moment there. Pincho is certainly leading the way with his unique way of
tilting at windmills .

Edit: Oh No! Too slow to post yet again.
Van B
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 17:24
Mankind, society, the world or whatever you want to call it need to stop using a fricken smilie face or an LOL as a passport for them to say anything they like about anything or anyone.

I'm gonna slaughter a whole microwave full of kittens after work lol haha lookahowcheekyiam, my farts smell like vanilla ice-cream.

If it was a joke, then how come nobody finds it funny? - is it enough for it to be a 'joke', or should a joke have to be actually funny, or inoffensive, before we should treat it as a joke.

Being jailed for making a bad joke is one thing, but that really is not the case here. That statement was not made as a joke, because if that's your idea of a joke then maybe an institution is the best place for you. Nobody makes jokes like that, he's in trouble because of a statement that he made that is about as politically wrong as it could have been - a smilie face or LOL is not enough of a diffuser. This isn't racism or sexism here, this is a statement that he'd never make in real life, but he feels confident enough to make online. Lessons to be learned for any loudmouth kid who thinks they're untouchable. It's good for society that this kid is made an example of - very few people would agree with the sentencing, but the culpability is obvious the second you stop making allowances.

I got a fever, and the only prescription, is more memes.
KeithC
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 17:25
Oh; you didn't get to see his little childish tirade just now, GG. I've shielded you all from it; that's the kind of protective and friendly moderator I am.

-Keith

MrValentine
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 17:29 Edited at: 12th Jul 2013 17:32
Quote: "Oh; you didn't get to see his little childish tirade just now, GG. I've shielded you all from it; that's the kind of protective and friendly moderator I am. "


I saw some of it, was interesting, Do Tell

EDIT

But on a resinous note, very sad to see someone of such long standing being like this...

Green Gandalf
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 17:32 Edited at: 12th Jul 2013 17:34
Quote: "Oh; you didn't get to see his little childish tirade just now, GG."


[Edit: above quote added for clarity since MrV managed to jump in first ]

Didn't I? I see that lots of posts from him among the most recent posts that I've just read have now disappeared. I didn't feel particularly upset by them - just sorry for him really.

Or were there others that we really didn't see at all not even fleetingly?

Either way, I agree with the decision - just amazed the nonsense was allowed to go on so long (and it was amusing to watch).
KeithC
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 18:00
There were about a half dozen or so responses pointed at myself; that were deleted before popping up here.

-Keith

Green Gandalf
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 18:04
Ah, I see. Sounds like a well-deserved slap then.
TheComet
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Matty H
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 18:34
There is some inconsistency here I think.

Everyone seems to agree there has been silly laws in the past, witches and various others:

Quote: "•It is illegal to die in the houses of parliament – The Earl of Chatham gave it a good go but was fortunate to make it back to Downing street without breaking the law;"


http://www.ehlsolicitors.co.uk/silly-laws-britain/

Some of these silly laws were accepted by the population since they believed the 'law is the law'.

But when Pincho says that this particular law in discussion is one of these silly laws then everyone jumps on him. I don't feel he was trolling, I just think nobody really understood what he was saying.

He is right in implying that you should have your own moral compass which sits alongside the law of the land, they will not be identical and if enough people agree with you the law can be altered.

Libervurto
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 18:38 Edited at: 12th Jul 2013 18:43
Quote: " It isn't a crime now, and a crime is a crime with no end."

I thought we all agreed that legal/illegal and right/wrong are separate issues.

Quote: "It is illegal to die in the houses of parliament"

That one is quite interesting. I think the reason is that if there is a vote and someone dies their vote is still counted, or something along those lines.
TheComet
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 18:44
Quote: "I thought we all agreed that legal/illegal and right/wrong are separate issues. "


Indeed!

What the 19 year old did was illegal, but wasn't wrong in my opinion.

Then again, right and wrong is subjective, so you can't argue it, merely state your opinion and get on with life.

TheComet

KeithC
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 19:03
Quote: "But when Pincho says that this particular law in discussion is one of these silly laws then everyone jumps on him. I don't feel he was trolling, I just think nobody really understood what he was saying.

He is right in implying that you should have your own moral compass which sits alongside the law of the land, they will not be identical and if enough people agree with you the law can be altered."


Sure; had he presented himself and his case in a "non-trolling" way, there would have been no issue. With all due respect, however; you were not privy to his childish rantings aimed at myself specifically. That is where he crossed the line, of his own accord I might add. We'll see how he does when he comes back.

Let me take this a bit further and say that I have absolutely no problem with discussions that turn into heated debates here (AUP adhered to, of course). We all have different opinions on matters concerning our lives here on Earth (and even after....which is usually disallowed as well). True freedom of speech is an impossibility here, as this is a private company's forum. But we allow quite a bit of leeway (which is why this section of the forum exists); within reason. My opinion can be just as wrong and invalid, as other's are to me.

But when someone seems to go out of their way to argue a point in a nonsensical way, and steers the conversation a different way; that is considered trolling. Continuing to post things that you know will inflame others here. Continuing to do so, after being warned, is when the hammer falls. No one is making you push that post message button (at least I would hope not; if that's the case, you have a whole set of separate issues to deal with).

Also; important tip of the day: Calling a Mod names, and being a general idiot to them...doesn't always produce the desired results.

-Keith

Wolf
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 19:03
Quote: "
I don't follow the pack. I lead the pack. This causes head butting in males who try to regain control over the females."


No you don't! I do.
You might not know, but your females sure do.

Quote: "Witches don't exist"


You don't have that much experience with the opposite sex, do you?

Quote: "Another, was that it was illegal for a wife to get a haircut without a husband's permission. Unless you're married; you wouldn't understand how laughable this would be today."


Silly Law? Have you ever taken a look at any of these housewifes lately?



-Wolf

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Without struggle,no progress and no result.Every breaking of habit produces a change in the machine.
KeithC
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 19:07
Alright, you got me Wolf.

-Keith

MrValentine
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 19:13
Quote: "No one is making you push that post message button (at least I would hope not; if that's the case, you have a whole set of separate issues to deal with)."


{looks over his shoulder to see TheComet standing there.......}



But yeah, I have to be honest in saying being banned from this forum is something I will honestly dread, it and TGCs products got my childhood dream within reach, and I would be saddened to lose access to it...

Matty H
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 19:16 Edited at: 12th Jul 2013 19:17
@KeithC - Pincho could have handled it much better and calling names should not be accepted. He should concede the point that there is a written law and there is a debate as to whether this law has been broken. The fact it maybe should not be a law is another debate, this is the part I agree with him on.

I'll stop talking about Pincho since he can't respond

Contracts are another thing people take as gospel, but just like the law they can be(and sometimes should be) challenged.

KeithC
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 19:25
Quote: "Contracts are another thing people take as gospel, but just like the law they can be(and sometimes should be) challenged."


I agree to a point. Some people tend to sign things; either without reading it thoroughly, or not caring about it at the time. Later on they want to change things. Again, no one made them sign it. However; I agree that some company's lawyers like to bury things in reams of paper, knowing the average person either won't understand or have time to read it.

-Keith

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 19:43
Quote: "It wasn't a crime, it will end up not a crime. You can't win."


If there's a law against it then it's a crime. It might be ridiculous, dumb or downright illogical. But if it is law then if you break that law your are in the eyes of the law guilty of a crime.

Defintition of crime:

Quote: "an action or omission which constitutes an offence and is punishable by law:"



Of course, it doesn't make it right to punish somebody for a stupid crime, but it is a crime none-the-less.

Crime is determined by what is legal, not your sense of morality.

Sometimes I get the feeling you try to go against what is generally accepted for the sake of being different. Unfortunately, it doesn't change what words mean, how things work and the ways of the world. Or more evidently as Keith suggests, a troll, but I don't know if you're doing it to wind people up or if there's some other motive.

P Paxton
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 19:50
Quote: "Sometimes I get the feeling you try to go against what is generally accepted for the sake of being different. Unfortunately, it doesn't change what words mean, how things work and the ways of the world. Or more evidently as Keith suggests, a troll, but I don't know if you're doing it to wind people up or if there's some other motive."


Quote: "
Defintition of crime:

Quote: "an action or omission which constitutes an offence and is punishable by law:""


Definition...the condition of being definite, distinct, or clearly outlined:

Definite fixed; positive; certain; sure:

And so a definition should be fixed, positive, and sure. Therefore the definition of a crime, which may not be a crime in another country, and may not be a crime in the future, has no fixed definition.

Genius is an insult to my intelligence!
KeithC
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 20:23
Pincho; your duplicate account above has been nuked, and your ban has been extended for attempting to get around your ban. I wouldn't suggest that you do it again, or it will be permanent.

-Keith

Benjamin
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 20:47 Edited at: 12th Jul 2013 20:48
I don't think Pincho is trolling (ie. making inflammatory posts for effect), I just think he has some crazy ideas.

"Sideboobs are awesome. Getting punched in the face is not." - Jerico2Day on violence and nudity
Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 21:05 Edited at: 12th Jul 2013 21:06
Quote: "And so a definition should be fixed, positive, and sure. Therefore the definition of a crime, which may not be a crime in another country, and may not be a crime in the future, has no fixed definition"


In your opinion. Language evolves and as do the definitions of words we use. If what you said were true, the English language would be exactly as it was when the dictionary was first invented. But it has dramatically changed since. If I were to call you 'gay', would you think I was insulting you, accusing you of being a homosexual or generally are quite joyous? Most people today would think I was insulting you, a century a go the dictionary definition offered a very different perspective. People would take the meaning to be a compliment and nobody would feel anybody was questioning their sexuality.

Dictionaries use a descriptive form of language as oppose to prescriptive. Based on how words are used. The prescriptivist approach failed a long time ago, but at least it help use devise a standardised form of the language, even if it's still ever changing.


What is consider a crime is defined by the law of the country. For example, it's a crime in the UK to carry a firearm, in the US it is not.

In relation to the topic we're talking about somebody subject to US law. To be honest, I don't know if what the guy did was a crime under US law, I'm not a lawyer nor do I know much about US law.


Even your definition of definition is wrong:

Quote: " a statement of the exact meaning of a word, especially in a dictionary: a dictionary definition of the verb
an exact statement or description of the nature, scope, or meaning of something:our definition of what constitutes poetry
[mass noun] the action or process of defining something: a question of definition issues of methodology and definition

2 [mass noun] the degree of distinctness in outline of an object, image, or sound: the clarity and definition of pictures can be aided by using computer graphics
the capacity of a device to make images distinct in outline: [in combination]:high-definition television"



Quote: "I don't think Pincho is trolling (ie. making inflammatory posts for effect), I just think he has some crazy ideas."


This is what I suspect. Much of what he says much of the time twists things in such away that suggests he's performing mental gymnastics rather than to accept criticism, instead of just saying what gives a negative effect.

Then again there are good trolls out there, but I am with you on this.

Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 21:13 Edited at: 12th Jul 2013 21:14
Quote: "I don't think Pincho is trolling (ie. making inflammatory posts for effect), I just think he has some crazy ideas."
I would agree to this. He simply just isn't capable of conveying his ideas in a way that does anyone any good. I'll be honest with you, I feel bad for him.
Quik
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 21:22
since when did having different ideas become crazy ideas? :/

Well - I would second that that's the case, not trolling - simply having different views and ideas.



Whose eyes are those eyes?
rolfy
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Posted: 12th Jul 2013 21:31
Quote: "He simply just isn't capable of conveying his ideas in a way that does anyone any good."
His downfall is believing he is more intelligent than anyone else, telling them this when they don't accept his opinions or beliefs and using it as a rationale for why he's right and your wrong.
He fails because he fails to communicate, he wont listen to you, your too dumb to understand his genius, its a pity because he lives in his own head.
Someone once caught talking to themselves said "I always talk to the most intelligent person in the room".

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