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Geek Culture / A poem I wrote, comments appreciated.

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Rye
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 01:48
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I dont believe in god.

I believe there is a chance he exists, (around 0.0000000000001%)

I have had no proof that he does exist so why should i believe.

I also have had no proof he doesn't, but anytime there is an argument the believers come up with a load of s**t.

e.g. How can a GOOD, ALL POWERFUL god let so much evil happen in the world? The believers answer with something like "His reasons are beyond our understanding" (or some other crap).

Without proof he exists i dont see how i can believe.

And as for the bible, all of these miracles can be explained with a little imagination.

e.g. The feeding of the 5000, an explanation by me.

The food was bread and fish. The fish would probably need cooking. So after a bit of scouting Jesus and a few friends get some fuel. This fuel was made up of some dead dried plants along with some wood. One of these plants was Marijuana. And the amount of smoke being produced from the weed bonfire could have made jesus and his mates halucinate.

Just thinking about it, the whole bible could be explained by the writer and characters being on drugs.

If i have caused offence by this post then so be it, but it is just my opinion.
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Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 02:13
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I've decided to do a Neohpyte-type post

'I believe there is a chance he exists, (around 0.0000000000001%)'

ok, then explain how we got here without the words evoultion, metamorphasis, aliens, or any of that s hit

'I have had no proof that he does exist so why should i believe.'

OK, I have no proof that half of what science says is true. I can't see air, they can't show me air, but I still breathe

'e.g. How can a GOOD, ALL POWERFUL god let so much evil happen in the world? The believers answer with something like "His reasons are beyond our understanding" (or some other crap).'

No, God didn't create this, MAN did

'And as for the bible, all of these miracles can be explained with a little imagination.

e.g. The feeding of the 5000, an explanation by me.

The food was bread and fish. The fish would probably need cooking. So after a bit of scouting Jesus and a few friends get some fuel. This fuel was made up of some dead dried plants along with some wood. One of these plants was Marijuana. And the amount of smoke being produced from the weed bonfire could have made jesus and his mates halucinate.'

I'm so sorry your mind is so fu kked up: first off, how do you know this is real? you could just be out of your mind on crack!

There.
Neophyte, if you want to correct anything, go right ahead!

Take a look to the sky just before you die

---For Whom The Bell Tolls, Metallica
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HZence
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 02:37 Edited at: 10th Feb 2004 02:44
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Quote: "ok, then explain how we got here without the words evoultion, metamorphasis, aliens, or any of that s hit"


Why should he? Let'see YOU explain how we got here without the words "God", "Creation", or "Seven". Furthermore, STOP ASSUMING THINGS ABOUT NON-BELIEVERS. Just because he's NOT A CHRISTIAN does not mean that he AUTOMATICALLY buys into evolution! Gah!

Quote: "they can't show me air"


Yes they can, through experiments. Show me God with a telescope and I'll believe!

Quote: "No, God didn't create this, MAN did"


God created EVERYTHING, even evil - he just gave man the choice of whether or not we wanted to inherit it.

Quote: "I'm so sorry your mind is so fu kked up"


Oh, so just because you don't agree with him as far as his thought process, he's "f*cked up", eh? Swearing is the Christian thing to do too, that's for sure.

Also, don't say "I'm sorry". It's clear that you're not sorry, and you're just mocking him.


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Rye
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 02:38
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'ok, then explain how we got here without the words evoultion, metamorphasis, aliens, or any of that s hit'

I dont know how if i did i would either be the richest man on earth, or a god (unlikely).

'OK, I have no proof that half of what science says is true. I can't see air, they can't show me air, but I still breathe'

You obviously havent read up on enough experimets. And the only reason you cant see air here is because the photons emitted by the electrons in air molecules are of a wavelength your eye cant pick up.

'No, God didn't create this, MAN did'

Create the evil? so what if he didnt create it, if he is all powerful then he can make it go away.

'I'm so sorry your mind is so fu kked up: first off, how do you know this is real? you could just be out of your mind on crack!'

This really offended me, my mind is not fu kked up, and i dont take crack. Except for a bit of weed every now and then, i do not take drugs, and i will never do anything other than weed.

I honestly don't see any reason for you to insult me like you did, i expressed my opinion and gave an idea, which you can dismiss in a second if you wanted.
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Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 02:52
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@HZence: First of all, he insulted my religion by saying Jesus was high. So, I did the same. First of all, I'm Christian, I can still curse though.

@Ryan: You insulted my religion so I insulted you. If you apoligize, I will.

@All, I don't read up on science much, so I can't argue ont that

Take a look to the sky just before you die

---For Whom The Bell Tolls, Metallica
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Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 02:54 Edited at: 10th Feb 2004 02:55
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You can dismiss my opinion in a second if you wish too. I was kidding about the Evoultion thing though.

Take a look to the sky just before you die

---For Whom The Bell Tolls, Metallica
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HZence
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 03:02 Edited at: 10th Feb 2004 03:13
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Quote: "I'm Christian, I can still curse though."


Matthew 15:18 - "But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man."

Not according to your own religion.


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Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 03:17
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again, though: I'm not strictly christian

Take a look to the sky just before you die

---For Whom The Bell Tolls, Metallica
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Rye
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 03:24
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i just thought, maybe weed was used to garnish the food, that would help jesus get stoned.

Anyone know about that page missing from the front of the bible, it read somthing like

"All characters in this book are completely fictional......"
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Ian T
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 03:49 Edited at: 10th Feb 2004 03:51
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Ryan, kindly stop being an ass.

It is perfectly scientificaly feasible that there is an all powerful being that created the human race, either in prehistoric times or perhaps before that; perhaps it put the first living organism on the planet. It defies no existing evidence. There could be a god that created the world; science, math, logic, and everything you use inside the box to futily try to prove that there is nothing outside it.

Grow up.

(edit- the 'stop being an ass' refers to the pointless jabs he's constantly making at Christianity and religion in general, not my main paragraph)

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

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HZence
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 03:55
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Quote: "again, though: I'm not strictly christian"


Does this mean you're a mix of Christian and something else, or that you only buy into parts of Christianity?

If this is the case, why believe some parts of the bible and not others, if it's all "devinely inspired"?


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Ian T
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 03:57
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HZense, since when did he say he thought it was all divinely inspired? Now you're making assumptions about his religion, not the other way around.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

I am the chainsaw paladin.
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Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 03:58
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no, you don't get whta i mean: i'm not a cqtholic, first off
i mean that I don't believe that games with magic in them are satanic and the sort

Take a look to the sky just before you die

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Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 03:59
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thanks mouse

Take a look to the sky just before you die

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Rye
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 04:26
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I do believe that if god does exist and that he did give me free will them i am perfectly within my right to use this free will to make stupid childish jabs at religion, and if he doesnt exist then what i said is still ok because i still have free will.

There are many religions, some believe in one all powerful god, some believe and multiple gods. Who is to say who is right. And who is to say there are no gods. I dont go around trying to persuade people not to believe, unlike many religious people.

On saturday i went into town and there they were, like every saturday, stood in the middle of a busy shopping area, screaming "God is your saviour" "Do not turn away and become sinners" and many others. Not only do they shout down your ear, they also force leaflets into your hand.

@mouse
The stuff about the writer of the bible getting high and such is just me having a laugh, if you dont like what i write then just dont read my posts.
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HZence
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 04:34 Edited at: 10th Feb 2004 04:35
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Quote: "Now you're making assumptions about his religion, not the other way around."


Erm, 'fraid not mouse, I'm "not making assumptions about his religion". I was a Christian and went to Church. Devinely inspired means "inspired by the spirit of God", meaning that though men wrote the bible (which is apparent), God is what inspired them to do it.

Not an assumption. Teehee.

Hate to get this thread marked flamebait (or get it locked), but...nevermind.


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Mattman
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 04:41
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i actually agree with ryan, and i just didnt go to church this sunday. I got grounded. i think i might have to tell my parents i dont wanna go to church because i dont believe, not becasue im too tired

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Rye
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 04:46 Edited at: 10th Feb 2004 04:50
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Here is something to think about.

If there were no religions then loads of evil would dissapear. Think of how many wars have been fought because of peoples beliefs. If you take away the reason for a fight then the fight will not happen. If religion didnt exist then we would not be arguing now.

Because of religion Mattman might fall out with his parents, and he has had to go to church on sudays which to him may be a waste of time.
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Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 04:46
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Quote: "Erm, 'fraid not mouse, I'm "not making assumptions about his religion". I was a Christian and went to Church. Devinely inspired means "inspired by the spirit of God", meaning that though men wrote the bible (which is apparent), God is what inspired them to do it.

Not an assumption. Teehee."


yes, you are assuming about my beliefes. First off, no two Christians believe the same thing. So many people interprit it: that's why there are so many denominations. My great-grandparents don't believe in Hell and that everyone goes to heaven no matter what.

Take a look to the sky just before you die

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Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 04:48
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Ryan: first off, if we didn't have religion to fight about, we'd find some other stupid thing to fight about: i don't believe in killing for your religion

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HZence
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 04:50
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Sorry, I tend to generalize.

But then tell me, if men didn't write the bible because it was inspired by God, then who did right the bible, or if they did, what reasons did they do it for?

Just curious. Because if you're going to say "they wrote it because God told them to", then you believe it's devinely inspired, end of discussion.

This really doesn't have to turn into a "I have to prove him wrong!" thing - and that's not what I'm going for here.

Me saying the whole devinely inspired thing was like me saying that Christians believe that there's a God. Would you freak out over that and tell me that "now I'm assuming things because Christians believe different things"? I hope not.




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Rye
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 04:55
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Mr X
YOU may not fight over religion but many people will and do. Take the situation in ireland between the catholics and protestants. And how do you know we would fight about somthing else? We might, but for all you know we might have lived in perfect harmony.
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Mattman
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 04:55
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Ryan: not just religion. school, values, all kindsa stuff now. damn adolesence

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Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 04:56
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i never said anything about it being divenly inspired: i believe it was.

Question: HZence, could I consider us friends/on friendly terms?

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HZence
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 04:56
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@Mr. X: Ryan is just generalizing religion. He's looking at from the perspective of "Ok, all religions are just that: religions. None of them or more correct than any others." That's why he's saying religion causes clashes.


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Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 04:57
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uh, yeah, but we'd still find somehting else to argue about

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HZence
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 04:58
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Quote: "i never said anything about it being divenly inspired: i believe it was."


And that's exactly what I was talking about. You never said you believed in God either, that's something that's assumed. (Better yell at me for that one too Mousey! )

Quote: "Question: HZence, could I consider us friends/on friendly terms?"


Of course man. I love to debate religion, and though I may sound harsh at times, we're all human. Yeah, we're friends. Heh.


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Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 04:58
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all I'm saying is that we'd find something else to fight over

Take a look to the sky just before you die

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Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 04:59
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yes, I have said I believe in God before

Take a look to the sky just before you die

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Rye
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 05:13 Edited at: 10th Feb 2004 05:15
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Mr X
What makes you think we would fight over something else. We fight over everything there is to fight over, so taking religion out would reduce the number by 1.

As for who wrote the bible, if god told someone to write it then that person wouldnt have free will so i guess he didnt tell someone.

If he asked someone to write the bible then that means he interacted with society, and so why didn't he do it when i used to believe, and talk to me when i really needed him.

If god didnt ask/tell someone to write the bible then that person did it by his own free will, and so means the bible may be totally fictional due to the writer being drunk/stoned/very creative or the writer may have actually seen/heard everything in the bible. For this to be true then the writer would have to have traveled loads and probably had to be in more than one place at once, thus the writer was probably a god.
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Lord Ozzum
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telling someone to do something is not impeding on their freewill: they still ahve the right to refuse

Take a look to the sky just before you die

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Rye
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 05:21
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The person he told could have refused, ok i accept that, but your god gave people free will for a reason, i doubt he would go against him own ideas and TELL someone. Plus could that person have refused, maybe god being all powerful cant be resisted when told to do something
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Lord Ozzum
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He gave people free will because otherwise he would be a tyrant, a don't give a damn who you are, but he gave us free will so we can choose!

Take a look to the sky just before you die

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Jimmy
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They have a pepper bar!!

http://www.dbspot.com/ - Free subdomain hosting. Unlimited space/transfer. It's nice, I like it, you should too!
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Ian T
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 16:16
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Quote: "If there were no religions then loads of evil would dissapear. Think of how many wars have been fought because of peoples beliefs. If you take away the reason for a fight then the fight will not happen. If religion didnt exist then we would not be arguing now.

Because of religion Mattman might fall out with his parents, and he has had to go to church on sudays which to him may be a waste of time. "


Man, all these arguments were covered back in grade school religion arguments...

Okay, paint by numbers.

'If there were no religions then loads of evil would dissapear. Think of how many wars have been fought because of peoples beliefs.'

This is a very ignorant assumption. And it's ridiculous to say 'if there was no religion'. It has to be. You can't just assume that at any given time, everyone will only believe everything from a nautralistic point of view. It's ridiculous. And by the way, athiesm is quite often a religion too-- people are so motiviated by their beliefs that they put ridiculous amounts of trust in their theories, such as evolution, that have very little actual evidence.

Did you know that the excuse Hitler and his nazis had for murdering hundreds of thousands of jews in the gas chambers was that the jews were evolutionaly inferior? That's killing in the name of science, budy, this science that you say does not do the damage religion does. People will kill in the name of anything and if there wasn't religion to kill for, it'd be a million other things. To make nobody believe in religion at all, in fact, would take removing every last ounce of superstition, emotion, and feeling from our bodies-- removing everything that really makes us human.

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Ian T
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 16:18
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By the way. You say people have no reason to believe that God exists. They say that their faith is enough proof. You have no faith and are apparently a vapid enough person to not even know what is it, so since you don't have it, you have no business telling them that faith does not exist. You haven't been to China-- does that mean it dosen't exist? So your arguments are completely baseless.

--Mouse: Famous (Avatarless) Fighting Furball

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Jeku
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Posted: 10th Feb 2004 18:51
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Quote: "Hinduism sure as all heckout dosen't and there are 700 million of them-- I think that's pretty major. The various pagan and wiccan religions and their factions don't, and while you can file them off as cults if you prefer, their practices predate Christianity by millenia."


Ohhh Mouse, I've agreed with everything you've said before, but I'm studying non-biased world religions in University, and the simple matter is still true: Every major religion believes Jesus *existed* in either man or God form.

I know that it's easy to just spew off website links, but really there's no other way of doing it if you think about it :p

If you really want me to dig some up, and some book references, I will. But I live in an area that has a good amount of Indians, and I have had several discussions with them, too.

About the Wiccans, I actually forgot about them :p But seriously, even atheists don't say "Jesus the man never existed".

Jews believe he was a man but not the son of God, Muslims believe he was a great prophet, Buddhists believe that Jesus Christ was a good teacher but that he was less important than Buddha. I could go on

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HZence
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Posted: 11th Feb 2004 01:03
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Quote: "You haven't been to China-- does that mean it dosen't exist?"


Mouse, now you're assuming things! j/k

Seriously though, I've heard that argument in the past, and basically: you're right, just because you can't see something doesn't mean it's not there. However, this is still seen as a childish argument (not by me) and it holds no water.


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Ian T
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Posted: 11th Feb 2004 01:37
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Quote: "the simple matter is still true: Every major religion believes Jesus *existed* in either man or God form."


I haven't met a single person of the Hindu religion who believed that Jesus the man existed. Of course I haven't known a lot of them . And I've known a ton of athiests who've said that Jesus as a person never existed. There really isn't much evidence for the case.

Quote: "However, this is still seen as a childish argument (not by me) and it holds no water."


Frankly only by idiots, and it does hold water to anyone who knows the basics of a logical debate.

Quote: "Mouse, now you're assuming things! j/k"


You got me there

By the way... about the freewill thing. I was also given freewill, Ryan. Does that mean it's okay for me to grab an AK47, walk out into the street and mow everybody down? By no means. So what the christians believe you were given freewill-- that dosen't mean they think it's okay to do whatever you want with it.

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HZence
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Posted: 11th Feb 2004 01:50 Edited at: 11th Feb 2004 01:52
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Quote: "Frankly only by idiots, and it does hold water to anyone who knows the basics of a logical debate."


Anyone who knows the basics of a "logical debate" also restrains themselves from calling the other person names.

Why it's a childish arguement:

Description of China: A country of eastern Asia. Its ancient civilization traditionally dates to c. 2700 B.C. After a bitter civil war (1946-1949) a people's republic led by Mao Zedong was established on the mainland, and the Nationalists fled to Taiwan. Beijing is the capital and Shanghai the largest city.

Description of Heaven: The place where the righteous will live forever in the Christian Religion; where God lives.

To the "logical thinker", if you will, it is far for more feasible that China exists than heaven. Thus, it is more likely that China exists than heaven (if you're going to look at from that point of view).

Courtesy Dictionary.com and Google

And I really hate having to do this, but...

Disclaimer: Just because one defends an idea does not mean that he or she believes it.

(Just because I like my dignity and wish to keep it.)


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Lord Ozzum
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Posted: 11th Feb 2004 01:55
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not really: you see, we've never been to china, so we don't know if it exists. you can't trust what the internet tells you

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HZence
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Posted: 11th Feb 2004 02:12
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Quote: "you can't trust what the internet tells you"


You're joking right...


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Lord Ozzum
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yep

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Ian T
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Posted: 11th Feb 2004 04:54
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You're taking the words of millions of people that China exists. Millions of people also have faith in their religion. In fact, the majority of people in the world have faith. By those quite logical terms, you are going against common evidence in saying that faith either does not exist, or is stupidity.

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Jeku
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Posted: 11th Feb 2004 05:39 Edited at: 11th Feb 2004 05:43
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My fiance is Chinese... I know it exists :p

@Mouse - I hate posting net links to help base a claim, but: http://www.beliefnet.com/story/106/story_10617_1.html


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HZence
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Posted: 11th Feb 2004 05:50
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Quote: "You're taking the words of millions of people that China exists. Millions of people also have faith in their religion. In fact, the majority of people in the world have faith. By those quite logical terms, you are going against common evidence in saying that faith either does not exist, or is stupidity."


Good point, but there are a few things wrong with that.

a) More people believe China exists than the Christian heaven.
b) Though both sides present evidence as to why each place exists, I've heard the evidence of both sides, and I'd say that I think evidence that China exists are more feasible than evidence that heaven exists. Heaven is place where one can "live forever". If you don't believe in life after death or eternity, AND you've never seen any physical proof of either, than there's even more of a reason to doubt heaven exists.
c) I'm not saying that faith doesn't exist; I believe we're discussing the Christian heaven, but I know what you meant.


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Ian T
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Posted: 11th Feb 2004 19:44
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@JeKu-> Point taken. Good link.

@HZence-> Good points. I wasn't particularly talking about the Christian heaven, but, it's as good a basis for argument as any.

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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 11th Feb 2004 21:19
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Quote: "I think more people pick on Christians than any other religion in the world."


i disagree there... if u were more specific and said catholics... then maybe, but just walking round the school playground i hear more people cuss muslims than any other religion, you could be ignorant and say "butr they bring it upon themselves by crashing planes" etc, but jokes about the irish are made about the irish being drunk rather than the IRA or the fact a majority are catholics

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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 11th Feb 2004 21:27
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and point 2: anygone else notice that all you learn in GCSE RE is what christians think.. not that i chose to do it or nething, but the school forced me, which is why on the last exam i got 44%, im religeous, but not a christian, and fail RE exams misserably cos its always "name a christian that did this:" and "what do different churches believe about:" i now kno more about christianity than my own religeon. I guess this is partially due to my parents never forcing religeon onto me, tho im glad they didnt, i wish i was athiest tho, means i would be able to walk through the woods without thinking "this is an eyrie spot... wonder if theres any ghosts around" (excagurated, but to make my point clear). but once people believe in something, its hard to not be put off that belief, and once you stop believing in God(s), it makes you open to believe all sorts of crap... like wid the glass bull.

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Grismald
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Posted: 11th Feb 2004 21:31
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Quote: "such as evolution, that have very little actual evidence"

How can you say that? Have you ever studied it at school?
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