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Geek Culture / The end of Nintendo?

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Sir Spaghetti Code
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 07:02 Edited at: 5th Sep 2004 06:11
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I know some people are going to jump all over me for this thread (at least the title), but I wanted to talk about it.

EDIT: If all you read from this thread is this before you post, please not e that I am NOT SAYING NINTENDO IS GOING TO CLOSE, ONLY LEAVE THE HARDWARE BUSSINESS LIKE SEGA

I think we are witnessing the last couple of years of Nintendo as we know them. I think the next Gamcube and GameBoy DS are going to be the last systems they make. I feel they will head the way of Sega and start making just games. My guess is mostly for the Xbox 2.

"Why would I speak such blasphomy?", some fan bois may say! Well, to put it bluntly, the DS is going to go down in flames. Reasons? Well, for one, the PSP is going to knock it's socks off in terms of graphics and processor power. Also, tons more companies are lining up for the PSP compared to the DS. Companies have to go with the sure thing. PSP was designed so game houses could make games quickly and cheaper than next gen systems. Also, the DS is supposedly harder to develop games for.

But, above all else, the DS is going to count on it's touch screen and duel screens to survive, while thr PSP is going to rely on better graphics, more processor power, and other uses, such as playing movies.

most of the editors and reviewers for game mags that have gotten their mits on the DS have said that the touch screen is very counter-intuitive and clumsy. Also, the stylus scratches up the screen. Nintendo is still working on a solution for that. Also, the second screen has not been used in any very exciting way so far, most of which just serve to show the map you are on, or..GASP...tell you what game you are playing (Mario DS).

And the games coming out for the DS at launch are not the most top-shelf! Games that are pin-pointed for the time of launch are:

+Animal Crossing DS, which is a shrunk-down version of the GCN version. Nothing new there.

+Metroid Prime:Hunters, which could be very cool, if not for the TOUCH SCREEN controls. I mean, come on! I'm not gonna try to play that garbage! I've tried playing touch screen games before on a Palm PC!

+Super Mario 64x4, which is the same old Mario 64 we saw years ago, but now with four players through Wi-Fi!!...yawn...

+MarioKart DS, which is nothing more than Mario Kart 64. No Double Dash, no nothing! Oh wait, the second screen shows the map. Oh boy, now I want it! <obvious sarcasm>

+Wario Ware DS, which is more of the same. Little crap games. The system cannot rely

+Mario DS, which is just the old NES Mario with 3-D graphics (still side-scrolling) and Mario can grow BIG. Wow.

The PSP has a new Metal Gear Solid, Tales of Eternia, Twisted Metal, Ridge Racer, Dynasty Warriors, Devil May Cry, Gran Turismo, NfS: Underground, and Wipeout. Plus, a REAL CONROL SCHEME. No damn touch screen crap.

Some of you may be saying "But that is just there portable system!". The only problem is Nintendo is banking on the DS in a very big way. This is not like the GBA. They dedicated most of their E3 showwing to it, and it did not really wow anyone.

And beyond all of this, is the new Nintendo system. Nintendo said at E3 that they are working on creating "new playing experiences". That is the exact same thing that they said about the DS. So, one would be led to believe that the big N is creating some new-fangled control mechanism for their new system. Why mess with something that is not broken? DDR is fun, but I could not see a system that only had a dance pad, or an eye-toy for that matter!

Some say that Nintendo can do no wrong, particularly in the field of portables. I beg to differ. One needs to look no further than the Virtual Boy. It had all of, what? 20 or so games. That was Nintendo's first "inovation" in the field of portable systems, and it was a huge failure.

Well, I'm sure I will get tone of fan boy-ism posts and possibly get flamed, but if you actually clear your mind and really look at the way it all is heading, you will most likely see it my way.

Just for the record, I own a PS2, Xbox, and a Gamecube. I am not biased in any direction. I have all three to play on all the systems strong points, and skip over their weaknesses. I simply call them how I see them!


"What is a game if not illusions stacked upon illusions?"
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 07:07 Edited at: 30th Aug 2004 07:08
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I do think Nintendo are heading towards a Sega-like non-console making future - everything after the SNES hasn't really sold well due to poor and unexciting machines, and expensive games - plus the games were all child-friendly.

The only thing thats going well for them at the moment is the Gameboy - although I dont think the next version is going to sell well.


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Cian Rice
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 07:09
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Bout the starting line up, there is actually lists that have 40 + games which are the first american releases, and hey nintendo only meking games, doesn't mean it's the end it mean's Xbox will kick ass even more.
Cuz it will have Zelda and Mario and Metroid along with Fable and Halo and so on...

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Mussi
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 07:16
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Quote: "Metal Gear Solid"

gotta admit they messed that title up... come on a card based sneaking game?

I think you're to excited about those *rendered* screenies sony made available to the public . I don't think the PSP is gonna do much better than the DS .



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TravisP
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 07:16
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Just as long as playstation survives..
Long live the playstation!!

Good thing everyone here is a figment of my imagination.

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Sir Spaghetti Code
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 07:20
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Very true! Nintendo has just failed to embrace the fact that the gaming demograhic has moved from 8-14 to 16-24. That is a BIG change! Like going from a PG movie to an R-rated! The last successful system that Nintendo had was the SNES. And that was a long time ago!

Also, what I have noticed, is that Nintendo only seems to re-hash it's old systems on it's portables! The GBA was just an SNES re-hash, while it appears that the DS will just be an N64 rehash! It looks like the PSP will try to actually do something new to the field. I know that the games coming out now for the PSP are just new versions of PS2 games, but at least they are new versions. Given Nintendo's track record, I believe they will just keep pumping out old N64 games and giving them massive hype. But, unfortunetly, the N64 has much less good games to re-hash then the SNES!

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Sir Spaghetti Code
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 07:24
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The PSP has already had hands-on trials, and head to head, it tears the DS apart graphic wise! Look at the screen shots of the DS games. They actually look worse than the N64!

And no, I don't think it would be a bad thing to have Nintendo making games for other systems like Sega. In fact, that would be great, as you could then play the awesome Nintendo games without having to buy dedicated hardware!

"I attribute the quarrelsome nature of the Middle Ages young men entirely to the want of the soothing weed."
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Cian Rice
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 07:25
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Not really, the DS has much more powerful graphics than the N64 and the GBA has 32 bit graphics while SNES has 16 bit. Also N64 had a ton of good games, and every game boy has been the most succesful system there is. They sell more than pS2s...

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the_winch
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 07:29
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Isn't the DS backwards compatable? If so it's a big advantage. A lot of people that use handhelds are going to want to play the existing games on their new handheld. If they stay with nintendo they can use all there existing favourite games. Change to sony and they either have to abandon their old favourites, cart both the sony and a gameboy about or spend a considerable ammount of money buying new copies of games they allready own.

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Sir Spaghetti Code
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 07:29
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@Anime Blood: They may have a list of about 40+ games, but I have seen that before. If a game is not shown at the previous E3 (used to be CES), it will usually not be ready for the roll-out of the system. Say for instance, Nintendo had a list of about 35 games that were supposed to be ready for the N64 release, but actually only pulled about eight out! Most of the games on the list never even saw the light of day!

Hardware manufacturers do this every time new consoles are created. This is simply to reassure the consumers that it is a good idea to buy there system because lots of games are going to be coming out! It has been done countless times, and will happen countless times again!

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Sir Spaghetti Code
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 07:31
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@Anime Blood: No actually, not every game boy has been successful. If you count the Virtual Boy! lol...

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Cian Rice
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 07:31 Edited at: 30th Aug 2004 07:32
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Yeah, DS will be backwards compatible, and also a thought, more cinematic looking games...
Bandai seems to get this one screen would contain the huds and statistics while the other screen just features the gameplay, it would be like "playing one giant cutscene".
That was cuz Virtual Boy was odd...
It gave people headaches and it was an ugly red screen.

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Sir Spaghetti Code
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 07:33
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I'm sorry, but if Nintendo does not drop this whole touch-screen thing, it is going to crash and burn.

Everybody said that the backwards compatibility of the GBA would be a huge asset. I don't think I know any one has ever played a GB on a GBA. People are not going to buy a DS to play GBA games. It may be an extra perk, but it is not going to save the system if all the actual DS games suck.

I guess it is a difference of opinion, but I can't really think of a ton of good N64 titles past the Zeldas. Next to no RPGs as well!

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Ian T
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 07:33
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I wish it would happen... haven't heard of a single Nintendo product I've enjoyed. The collapse of a mega-corperation would leave a lovely power vacuume. Not one for Infinium Labs to fill, certainly, but perhaps some other aspiring console developer.

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Cian Rice
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 07:35
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I play my old gb games on gba all the time, it gives the games a more stereo sound and it can unlock features if you use older games on the gba like in Zelda Oracle of Seasons/Ages

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Mussi
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 07:40
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non of you is going to believe each other unless they see it happen, so what's this thread for



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Ian T
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 07:42
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Speculation, the spice of life .

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Sir Spaghetti Code
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 07:48
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Don't get me wrong, I would love to see the market big enough for both, but I just don't believe it is. We won't really know until the big N rolls out their next home console.

I am just going on what I have seen, and what happened with Sega. I t seems that Nintendo is about one step behind them. First, the SNES was majorly popular, just like the Genesis. Then the N64 had a much smaller fan base, just like the Saturn. Then, the GCN is fizzling out just like the Dreamcast, catching only niche users. History repeats itself, over and over..

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HZence
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 07:52
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Quote: "Sega-like non-console making future"
\

I believe Nintendo dedicated to hardware long ago; saw an article about in EGM (when it was still called EGM). Also, you might be forgetting that Nintendo dominates the hand-held Market. Even if they're eliminated from the TV-console race, there's always Gameboy.


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Ian T
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 07:52
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I think the question is whether the multi-screen fad proves worthwhile. It looks like a total waste IMHO, but it might spawn some neat games. The big problem is, I think, it takes a lot of effort and innovation to design games for that... two things the major game publishers don't like at all. Your point about the PSP being more failsafe is rather astute...

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Cian Rice
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 07:54
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Okay... whatever HZence, it's still called EGM, only the website is a network of magazines known as 1up.

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Zero Blitzt
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 07:55
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I dont think I can ever speak to you the same again. I'm a Nintendo Phanboy.

Anyway, on to shooting your biggest argument down...

Quote: "
Well, for one, the PSP is going to knock it's socks off in terms of graphics and processor power"

So? Why would I want a machine that I have to pay $300 for which has PS2 ported games on it? You know all the games are going to be stale. At least Nintendo is going for a new way to play. They are not going to miss out on their next console, either. Nintendo has learned from its mistakes. They are going to design something that will crush both the XBox2 and the PS3.

I'm a Nintendo Fan boy, and if Nintendo goes down, I'll crash and burn with them. If they fall off the console market, I'll switch to only playing games on the PC. I don't want to support companies who can't make anything innovative and shoot out the same crap (although I admit Nintendo has shot out a lot of Mario Party games...).

My $0.02.


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Ian T
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 07:56
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Quote: "You know all the games are going to be stale."


Where's your argument for that ? The PSP has more freedom because of its classic design, actually, which means more PC-like innovation and less being bound to specific console quirks.

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Zero Blitzt
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 08:01
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Also...

Quote: " I'm sorry, but if Nintendo does not drop this whole touch-screen thing, it is going to crash and burn.

Everybody said that the backwards compatibility of the GBA would be a huge asset. I don't think I know any one has ever played a GB on a GBA. People are not going to buy a DS to play GBA games. It may be an extra perk, but it is not going to save the system if all the actual DS games suck."


Why will the touch screen make them crash & burn? I think many game developers will use it more menus and maps, not for the game itself (the other screen would be for playing the game).

Backwards compatability with the GBA is a HUGE plus. The DS is not the next successor to the GBA. People will still make GBA games. Oh yeah, I play GB games on the GBA. I love playing the Pokemons (yes, I still play them from time to time) and Monopoly on it.

I hate arguing about the consoles, because basically, all companies and games and consoles have pros and cons, and pretty much in the end, they equal out. I think you forget that the Playstations wouldnt even be around without Nintendo, so you need to pay homage to that.

*Hopes the thread gets locked because it will just be another flamebait*


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David T
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 08:25
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1 billion plus games sold doesn't sound like a downfall.

Sir Spaghetti code: PSP - It's expensive, and DS has the edge with a huge library of games already available in the form on GBA games (only a paltry over a million games sold) and wifi multiplayer.

Attempts are rival handhelds are come and gone? Anybody remember ngage? Didn't exactly take the world by storm :p

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3ddd
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 08:38
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I just want to add that Nintendo has always been a *very* profitable company. They've made some decisions that cost them, but they seem to be able to pull the plug on something before it brings them down (e.g., Virtual Boy).

Microsoft is still *hemoraging* money from the Xbox - big time. The ONLY reason the Xbox ever made it past the first year after its release is becuase it is made by a company with just about infinite resources.

Sony is profiting from their PS2 and probably has the ability to keep the PSP alive, even if it costs them money throughout it's life cycle. But, it will cost so much compared to the Nintendo DS, which will be comparable and have a lot of exclusive titles.

So, considering these things, Nintendo is not in such a bad shape as you may belive. They need to minimze the production cost of the DS (and next gen console) and profit from their sales in order to stay in the game. Will Nintendo dominate again? No, and likely never will again. I don't think they will sink though, even if they continue to get overshadowed by MS and Sony.


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Sir Spaghetti Code
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 08:40
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Quote: "Backwards compatability with the GBA is a HUGE plus. The DS is not the next successor to the GBA. People will still make GBA games. Oh yeah, I play GB games on the GBA. I love playing the Pokemons (yes, I still play them from time to time) and Monopoly on it."


That's funny. Nintendo is just saying that in my opinion. how is the DS not the next game boy?

And I have played games on touch screen Palm PCs, and they are awful! If nothing else, your arm gets tired from holding it up to the screen. Not to mention that every game mag that i have seen has trashed on the Metroid game for DS due to it's use of the touch screen. I mean you have to run the stylus over the screen to move, and then tap the screen to fire? You think that is going to go over with main stream audiences?

Video games are just now coming into their own as a mainstream form of entertainment. Now is not the time to create earth shattering changes. Let video games keep evolving for a bit.

I'm not saying that the DS is a bad idea. Maybe even a bit too ahead of it's time, like many of Nintendo's ideas. Let's take a look:

+Powerpad: Could not have been implemented worse, and with so much potential. Now what do we have? DDR. And you thought that was a new idea? Pffft..

+U-Force: Was that actually supposed to be a controller? It didn't make anything on the screen move, that's for sure! What do we have now? Para-Para-Paradise!

+Virtual Boy: Perhaps one of the biggest stinkers in all of Nintendo's closet. They are really hoping that we have forgotten that one. What do we have now? TONS of people clammering for Virtual Reality. If VB had been a success, who knows what the successor would have been like

As you can see, I do give Nintendo lots of credit (maybe too muh?). Just, some of their ideas are just a little too ahead of their time.

The mantra of "Video Games for everyone" is in it's infancy, and a radical shift such as touch screen will only serve to scare off the main-stay of gamers. This is not a good thing, you can imagine.

And I'm sorry, but i really put no weight into Fanboyism.

I'm not trying to attack anyone. I'm just stating what I have seen in the past, being a gamer since Atari 2600. I've seen a lot of companies come and go, and Nintendo is showing signs of heading down that path. Sega has been able to actually pull in more profit making games for other company's consoles, and Nintendo may at some point look to move in that direction.

I am not speaking from fan dreams, but the reason why Nintendo has cornered the handheld market is due to the fact that no established game company has tried it. Sony just seems to push out the contenders in what ever field they move into. Their first attempt at a home console proved to be one of the most successful consoles in history.

Like I said before, i am not attacking anyone or any company.

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MiR
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 08:43
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Quote: "Hopes the thread gets locked because it will just be another flamebait"

It already is another flame bait. On with the ranting:
I too am worried about Ninty´s future. Though they seem to be catching on to the non-japanese, non kids swing in the industry. Look at the latest Zelda for example. It seems to borrow more from the Lord of the Rings than zelda itself.
I can still see Nintendo hanging on to the portable market for some time. After alll. If the DS fails they can always bring out a GBA2. It´s mainly the home market that has me worried. The GC is lossing ground as far as develepers are conserned. We are increasingly seeing games made for PS2 and Xbox but with no GC support. It is still unclear what they have decided to do for the next generation.
M$ is planning that thier new software will bring the pc and xbox closer together, thus providing develepers with an easy option to port from one to the other. This provides a strong base for the console and gives the look of a safer console to work on, making other develpers work on it.
Sony´s solution is a diferent road to ultimatly the same thing. Give it´s console the tag of being the safest bet. This time the means are simpeler. Relying on the playstation part of the name and being backwards compatible.
The only thing develepers know about Nintendo´s console is the word "revolution". Which on it´s own doesn´t say much.
This puts Nintendo in a bad situation. With the increasing costs of making games, develepers are going to constantly look for the safer bet. Brand names, licenses and the "safer" console.
I´d like to add that I´m not against Nintendo.I´m just pointing out what I THINK is the develepers point of view of the next generation. I am in fact willing to forgive Nintendo for the short and babish Mario sunshine and the unfinished and rushed Windwaker if the new Zelda game is as good as I hope it would be. And I think it will be. If I could only find a wallpaper for my desktop...


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Sir Spaghetti Code
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 08:47
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It is very true that the DS will come out with a definite advantage in price, that's for sure.

And I'm not saying that Nintendo will close it's doors. That will never happen, at least not for a long time. What I am saying, is that the signs are pointing towards Nintendo going software-only if the DS and their next home consoles don't hit it big. It's just not intelligent bussiness to always be at the bottom of the system wars. It takes a lot of money to create consoles and advertise them, and eventually, if it keeps going like this, they will regroup and cut their losses, leaving the console wars. I just feel that they hae lost too much in the way of 3rd party software. No company plays the console wars to lose, believe me.

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Sir Spaghetti Code
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 08:49
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How is this flamebait and why should it be locked? I am simply stating my opinion on a game console, not bashing religion or anything! If fanboys can't talk reasonably about this without flaming, that is their problem.

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Sir Spaghetti Code
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 08:55
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Let me also state that I own a GBA and play it regularly. I was really excited about the DS until I found out it will try to rely heavily on touch screen. Why Nintendo, why?

And please look above for my reasoning that this is not a bad idea, but rather ahead of it's time. At a time when the industry needs to keep things as they are to get more mainstream appeal.

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Killswitch
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 09:16
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Here's the way I see it the DS has two screens. Wow, how many people here have two monitors on their PC and use them all at the same time? Other than diaplying maps and inventories what can this screen do? Besides you'll only be able to conentrate on one screen at once so it will be just like a pause menu etc. I don't know alot about the PSP other than it's got a very short battery life which could be it's downfall.

And about the revolution, does anybody have ny solid evidence as to what's revolutionary about it? Other than it jumping up and doign a jig what more can consoles do?

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 09:25
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Quote: "Nintendo has just failed to embrace the fact that the gaming demograhic has moved from 8-14 to 16-24"


But it hasn't - for every 16-24 year old there are 8 to 14 year olds replacing them. Look at the truly massive success of Pokemon - do you play it? I know I don't, because it's not aimed at my "demographic", but that didn't stop Nintendo making millions and millions from it.

Microsoft aren't the threat here, their penetration into Japan is pitiful at best, Sony are a threat - their PSP looks gorgeous, but I don't need a portable PS2, I *have* a PS2 and to be honest I'm bored to death with it, the same old crap churned out time and time again with only a few shining gems. And what use is being able to play movies if the PSP battery life can't even sustain it?! Technology doesn't sell consoles, games do. You only have to go back a few years to see this demonstrated all over the place.

I own a PS2 and a Gamecube (I don't need an X-Box, my PC is far superior). PS2 games are, quite frankly, boring me to death. There has been nothing innovative released for ages bar perhaps Treasures Gradius V. Ico, Rez, Amplitude - all great, and all a few years old now.

My Gamecube is a new purchase, I've only had it a month and have already got more enjoyment from it than my PS2 collection this entire year. Nintendo know games better than anyone and I for one will buy their next gen console because of this reason and this reason alone. If I want fan-boy teenage-appeal shooters, I'll use my PC or PS2. If I want a solid gaming experience, I'll turn the Gamecube back on. Advanced Wars 2 on the GBA is sublime and I can't wait for the cube version.

I spent 7 hours solid playing Harvest Moon AWL on my cube the other day. I haven't spent that long in a single sitting playing ANY game for years and years now. Gamecube developers know how to captivate the player for sure.

The problem of course is that Nintendo do need to appeal to this 16+ market who want their Sam Fishers and Dantes as well as their Links and Marios. For the time conscious gamer though, I know plenty of people my age who prefer to buy Nintendo because you're guaranteed a FUN gaming experience. No other console can promise that.

Cheers,

Rich

"I am not young enough to know everything."
- Oscar Wilde
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The dude guy
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 09:34
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You all are crazy Nintendo's still growing strong! You'll see you'll all see!

-Nintendogs: You get to take care of your own virual dog!

-Voice activation!

And that's just two of the many great things of the DS!!!!

Andrew Tamalunas
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SpecTre1
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 09:34
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Spot on there m8 and the same reason I also have a Gamecube!

New to DBPro comin from AMOS on the Amiga!
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 09:53 Edited at: 30th Aug 2004 09:57
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Oh and while we're at it - a touch screen is a superb idea, especially as its an OPTIONAL extra! Just because it has it, it doesn't mean all games need to support it - but how many times have you played a console or handheld game and wished to God you could be using a mouse?!

Harvest Moon would be ideal, just touch the patch to plant the seeds, etc (its a farming game guys, incase you didn't know) ... Advanced Wars DS - it could have the map constantly in the top screen, touch the units to move them, stats and fights appear below that, etc. It would be extremely cool and very useful.

Just because you can't think of any good uses for the type of games you like to play doesn't mean they don't exist!

Interestingly I think one of the main reasons Sony are trying to move into the hand held market is that X-Box are moving into theirs!

The new DS design is far better than the one shown at E3, much sleeker and more refined. Tokyo Game Show 2005 will be the one to watch for with PS3 dev kit, X-Box 2 (hopefully) and Nintendo builds on show.

"I am not young enough to know everything."
- Oscar Wilde
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Sir Spaghetti Code
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 10:02
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The only problem is...Nintendo is NOT making the touch screen optional on many games. Look at Metroid Prime: Hunters. It would be a great game, if only it wasn't making you use the stylus, which has no place in MP's style of game play.

@Rich: I have had a GameCube since it came out. And it's shortage of games have left a shortage of power running to it. Harvest Moon? Great game, but it has been out a while. Already played the hell out of it. I mean, they had an amount of games I coudl almost count on my fingers at E3!

Sure, the Cube is fun...if you just got it. But it did not take me long to go through every game on it worth playing. It just doesn't have enough games IMHO!

"I attribute the quarrelsome nature of the Middle Ages young men entirely to the want of the soothing weed."
-Jerome K. Jerome(1859-1927),Writer
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Eric T
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 10:08
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Nintendo isn't gone yet. Everything around it is dying.

The console is dying IMHO, and so is the console devoloper(EX: Grabbed by the Goulies). They (The console) are non-upgradable (with the exception of stupid knick knacks like a cupholder). They are expesnsive and the games are extrememly expensive. I haven't used my PS2 in more then 4 weeks, I can play any type of game i want on my PC. Nothing mind blowing has come out for it, but yet on the PC we have seen games churned out lately, such as Painkiller (which has impressed me greatly the more I toy with it) and Doom 3.

Any games that are PC to console ports just seem to lesson in every aspect, from graphics to gameplay to sound (I'm looking at you Max Payne 2 ). Then we see Console to PC ports such as Halo and Grand Theft Auto 3/ Vice City, and we are amazed as they take the game to another level Visualy and to the ear.

The problem here though, lyes in the upgrades of a computer. Some people don't want to spend money for that new fancy Graphics card. The good thing about the PC games has always been you can edit the settings and play the games. On the console the settings are stuck in one plae most of the time, and we see sluggish games of sorts (Ex: Prince of Persia on the PS2, don't think that game ever creeps past 20FPS).


Quote: "but how many times have you played a console or handheld game and wished to God you could be using a mouse?!"


Well, while playing just about every console FPS ever made. The controller and analog stick just don't seem to work. You try to adjust the sensitivity but you can never get it just right. I had severe problems playing through XIII on the PS2. It was either not sensitive enough or extrememly.

Eric

Specs: AMD 64bit 3200+, Gigabyte GA-K8NS Pro motherboard, ATI Radeon 9600XT 128mb, 120GB Maxtor 7200RPM, 17 inch flat screen, and 1.5 MBIT

AKA: Liquidz_Snake on IRC
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pizzaman
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 10:14
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@ Sir Spaghetti Code

btw I'd thought you'd just like to know that most games shown at E3 for the DS like Metroid Prime: Hunters were tech demos; this doesn't mean they would use the touch screen for the controls in Metroid Prime; they were just showning off what they could do with the DS. Also after all the bad reviews by the mags for using the touch screen in Metroid Prime tech demo, I doubt they would use it, or maybe as an optional control scheme.

Also I'd like to point out that Nintendo have not lost a net profit for the last few years, so I'll doubt they'll be out of the game just yet , altough I would like to see more games out for the GC.

pizzaman
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Cian Rice
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 10:15
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Incredible how 39, well now 40 posts have been made on topic in one day. Well I think both will be good systems with their own advantages, but I'm more likely to get DS cuz Nintendo knows it's handhelds.

Got anime?I do.
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Sir Spaghetti Code
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 10:16
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The problem I have with PC games, is that I do not like FPS or RTS games. For the most part, the games i like are on consoles.

And I do admit that games have to be toned down quite a bit to play on consoles, at least, when you get a console game, you know you will have no problem running it. I just bought Splinter Cell 2 on PC to play the multiplayer, and it was not compatible with my video card, which it did not say on the box. I had to go to the website to figure this out. And it supports weaker video cards!

"I attribute the quarrelsome nature of the Middle Ages young men entirely to the want of the soothing weed."
-Jerome K. Jerome(1859-1927),Writer
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Sir Spaghetti Code
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 10:33
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@Anime Blood: Hell, 40 posts in one day? Try in 4 hours! lol

"I attribute the quarrelsome nature of the Middle Ages young men entirely to the want of the soothing weed."
-Jerome K. Jerome(1859-1927),Writer
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Ian T
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 10:38
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Fascinating articles Rich.

You should write a column in Game Developer...

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Arkheii
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 10:39
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I have this friend, and I've been to his house recently. They have all 3 consoles, 2 computers, 3 iPods, an Apple PowerBook, and guess what we do together in school? I buy him ice cream every day. Looks like you don't have to be a fan boi if you can afford them all.

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Sir Spaghetti Code
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 10:48
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Exactly. I am not affected by the Fan Boi gene, because I have them all.

I feel somewhat cheated by Nintendo where the GCN is involved, as I bought it when it came out in good faith that it would deliver lots of good games. While it did deliver good games, they kind of stumbled on the "lots" part. And what was up with the whole connectivity bit? Trying to make me go and buy four GBA just to get the most out of my games (I'm looking ar you, FF:CC and Zelda:FS)? That just made me angry. I'm glad to see that they have pretty much dropped that.

The GBA, on the other hand, has been a great little platform, except for the fact that it was hyped as 32-bit, and we saw a flood of SNES ports!

"I attribute the quarrelsome nature of the Middle Ages young men entirely to the want of the soothing weed."
-Jerome K. Jerome(1859-1927),Writer
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Zero Blitzt
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 10:58
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Quote: " Not to mention that every game mag that i have seen has trashed on the Metroid game for DS due to it's use of the touch screen. I mean you have to run the stylus over the screen to move, and then tap the screen to fire? You think that is going to go over with main stream audiences? "


Spaghetti, I believed they changed Metroid Hunters so it's not touch screen click. I forget where I read this. Nintendo actually LISTENS to customers. Keep that in mind.

/me waves fist at XBox


Come to #coding. We promise we wont kick you!
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Sir Spaghetti Code
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 11:25
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Dude, Zero, don't take any of this personal. Like i have said several times, I am just calling em like i see em. I have been playing games since Atari 2600, and have seen a lot of companies (even inovators, like 3DO) get out of the console bussiness. Sometimes, it is just a smart move. Consoles cost a lot of money to produce, and they make a lot of money if you are on top. I feel that Nintendo makes such awesome first party games, but is suffering such a lack of third party support, that it would only strengthen them to go software only. It would open up a lot of new doors.

"I attribute the quarrelsome nature of the Middle Ages young men entirely to the want of the soothing weed."
-Jerome K. Jerome(1859-1927),Writer
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Cian Rice
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 11:29
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One thing that crushed nintendo, silicon knights leaving ( I think they were bought out by Microsoft, but I can't remember)

Got anime?I do.
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Sir Spaghetti Code
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 11:35
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That is quite true, but I have to tip my hat to the N for dropping Rare. Look at the crap they make now! "Grabbed by the Ghoulies"? I think my little sister would like that one, if I had a little sister.

"I attribute the quarrelsome nature of the Middle Ages young men entirely to the want of the soothing weed."
-Jerome K. Jerome(1859-1927),Writer
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outSync
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Posted: 30th Aug 2004 12:06
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I think that the DS will be an awesome portable. The duel screens open up an huge amount of unique and innovative gameplay possibilities. You can't honestly rely on the average video game magazine anymore for their opinions. Most of them are incredibly biased, or at least biased in some regard towards the game company that gives them the juiciest information. Has anyone visited Gaming Age lately? They just recently released a list of games that are in development for the Nintendo DS by various developers. Some of the more eye-catching names were Squaresoft, bringing FF:CC, a Secret of Mana game, and a few other RPGs to the console. Konami is bringing quite a few interesting games to the table, and we'll also be seeing some awesome games from Nintendo.

Camelot, the developers of the Golden Sun RPGs for the GBA are developing a surgery simulator using the touch pad, Animal Crossing DS will use it to type out letters and such. And we may actually see a RTS on the DS due to the touch-screen.

Although both the PSP and DS will feature Bluetooth and Wi-Fi, I'm more excited about the DS's multiplayer than the PSP's. Picto-Chat, if it ends up being packaged with the DS, will be an interesting and fun communication device. How about some Pokemon battles over Wi-Fi? Can anyone see some online fighters or shooters coming down the line? Granted, the PSP will probably have these types of genres, but I'm very interested in seeing some Nintendo titles being wireless enabled (Advanced Wars, Pokemon, Mario Kart, perhaps a Super Smash Bros.?).

The Nintendo GameCube's most glaring flaw in the eyes of many is the lack of DVD playback, and online gameplay. To be honest, they aren't flaws. The NGC is first and foremost a game player (obviously ), and while broadband is getting more and more popular, not every gamer has it. I predict that the next Nintendo console will be online enabled, and it will be supported by Nintendo. And I don't care what you Pokemon-haters say...an online Pokemon RPG would be huge.

I actually prefer consoles over PCs because of one major thing: their cheaper. My brother owns an Xbox. For what it costs someone to upgrade a PC to play Half-Life 2 and Doom 3, we'll be able to play both of the titles for less than half the price the average gamer would on the PC. Granted, they aren't upgradeable, but they are incredibly powerful nonetheless.

I would agree with Richard Davey that there's still a large younger audience for Nintendo to grab hold of. And it isn't like Nintendo isn't producing "mature" games for the older folks. Eternal Darkness is an excellent mature title, as well as the Resident Evils. You'll alse be seeing Second Sight on the GameCube.

I sincerely think that the day Nintendo drops out of the hardware business is the day Nintendo dies. And what would video games be like without Nintendo?

"If you are wise, you will fear me. If you need me, I'll be playing with my teddy bear." - Garfield
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