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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / - DBPro Coding Challenges -

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18
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Posted: 7th Jan 2006 20:34 Edited at: 7th Jan 2006 20:35
I have a suggestion for a challenge...Best FPS If this would be the case then I have something ..cool.. in mind

KimoSabi
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Posted: 7th Jan 2006 20:44
congratz zotoaster,

I also have a suggestion zo:
Real Time Strategy game (preferably space lol)

Well, hurry up and get the next challenge because I want to code lol.

My Website:

Zotoaster
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Posted: 7th Jan 2006 22:42 Edited at: 7th Jan 2006 22:43
Ok it's not tomorrow yet, but I've had some ideas. Very rough though, here they are:

Best AI - Often done, but always very interesting.

Best Coded "Movie" - Could be like a tech demo, or even one with a story, though it would require alot of time and effort, maybe some nice effects like particles would get you a better mark.

Most accurate remake of a picture of a place I choose. - Wouldn't be too complex, depending on the picture, but if I get a descent picture you could use DBPro's primitive objects and 2D commands to remake it.

Best tune - Here's an interesting one, perhaps not too good, but I'll chuck it in anyway. Use Ric's sound functions and the timer() to make a sort of "tune". Perhaps I can find the frequencies of each note if yu decide to do this one.


Choose one of these and we'll see after what one to do.

DarkBasic Pro Guy
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Posted: 7th Jan 2006 22:46
good entries is all I saw. We are all waiting Zotoaster

Zotoaster
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Posted: 7th Jan 2006 23:04
Yeah I just posted..

Darkbasic MADPSP
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Posted: 7th Jan 2006 23:18 Edited at: 7th Jan 2006 23:18
movie woot that would rock

Experienced DB http://www.greatgames3d.com (work in progress site)
Tinkergirl
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Posted: 7th Jan 2006 23:21
The challenges seem to be more about getting around the no-media limitations, than coding ability, I fear. (Except the AI one, of course).

Maybe something like 'Pattern/Gesture Recognition' (for a really hard challenge), or 'Robotron Remake', or 'Hacking minigame' or 'Flying Robot Game', or even 'Buoyancy'. I'm sure there are still ideas on Nicholas' page too
Zotoaster
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Posted: 7th Jan 2006 23:25
Hmm good point there.

Ok, here's one for you:

Basically an FPS, kill the badies, blah blah blah, really FPS games are quite simple, so here I'm not only looking for it to be an FPS, it has to have quality. The best you can make it, how does that sound?

Darkbasic MADPSP
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Posted: 7th Jan 2006 23:27
No movie all the fps will be is cubes

Experienced DB http://www.greatgames3d.com (work in progress site)
Neofish
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Posted: 8th Jan 2006 00:09
Quote: "Basically an FPS, kill the badies, blah blah blah, really FPS games are quite simple, so here I'm not only looking for it to be an FPS, it has to have quality. The best you can make it, how does that sound?"


how about just under 1000 lines of C++

New site!
Zotoaster
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Posted: 8th Jan 2006 00:32
what?

Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 8th Jan 2006 00:38
an FPS - this could be interesting...

Ric
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Posted: 8th Jan 2006 02:02
I'll go along with the fps challenge - as it covers the skills of collision physics and AI coding. I think this could be quite a popular challenge too. I'd suggest another two weeker for this one.

KimoSabi
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Posted: 8th Jan 2006 02:03
We could do FPS but we have already done target practice related stuff... I think maybe we should branch off on the racing one and it will be racing but the challange is to add an AI - also you would have to stick to your original racing game and im not to sure about newcomers.

Hope ya like it,
Nicholas H.

My Website:

Segan
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Posted: 8th Jan 2006 02:16
I like the idea of a fps or the racing theme, because I can't enter this competition and I don't want to miss an AI one!
Ric
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Posted: 8th Jan 2006 02:21
Err... both of those are AI ones.

@Kimo: Personally, I don't think we need two racing games in a row - and having to stick to your original game is a definite non-starter as a) it goes against the rules which say you may use other people's code and b) it excludes people from the challenge which weren't in the last one.

CPU
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Posted: 8th Jan 2006 03:57
What about a remake of some 'strategic' board game,
chess, checkers, and tic-tac-toe always seem to be a favorite, or some spinoff of this idea.

But if you want to get more 'active' what about something like a 2D shoot-em-up, it wouldn't be to hard to do and are many times quite fun.

Anyways, great job on your entry Zotoaster!

CPU

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BMacZero
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Posted: 8th Jan 2006 04:17
I like the board game idea..but I'm relatively new at coding and I think I just like that because I might actually be able to do it.

[bold]Bmaczero[/bold]
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Posted: 8th Jan 2006 04:40
I like FPS. This will test the abilities of the programers to simulate AI and all of the enemies features: Line of Sight, Collision, FOV, Self-preservation, blah blah blah
Besides, FPSs are good for the soul

Sven B
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Posted: 8th Jan 2006 09:59
Is a third person shooter allowed? like the camera orbits around the player while you handle the players movements?

It's the programmer's life:
Have a problem, solve the problem, and have a new problem to solve.
Ric
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Posted: 8th Jan 2006 15:25
I would think so - it's basically the same thing.

I'll also do a tiny bit of plugging around the forums to gain interest, and for the benifit of those that find the prospect of joining in on a 2521 post thread a little daunting!

Just need Zoto to confirm the challenge and deadline and we can all start.

Zotoaster
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Posted: 8th Jan 2006 15:46
Ok, a 'Shooter' it is then. First or Third person, whichever you want.

I agree that this one should be a two-weeker.

Next Challenge

Make a 'Shooter' game, 1st of 3rd person.

Time: Two weeks

Final entry's by: 22nd January

Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 8th Jan 2006 15:57 Edited at: 8th Jan 2006 15:58
I know that 1st person is from the "eyes" of the player, 3rd person is from behind the player (or external), but what is 2nd person view? Would that be a shooter from the point of view of someone else?

EDIT: Oh thats what I was gonna say - to aid in keeping the database up to date, when the challenge is assessed at the end, could the assessor attach a zip file of the challenges? I have a zip file on my PC, but haven;t got round to attaching it. This way I can easily get the entries for input to the database.

Zotoaster
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Posted: 8th Jan 2006 16:04
Would that be me?

Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 8th Jan 2006 16:41 Edited at: 8th Jan 2006 16:42
It would be for this challenge, yes... If that is no problem for everyone?

They way I did it was I worked backwards through the posts taking the most recent entry for each person as the final entry. I then copy and paste into DBP. Once I am done playing it, I save the source into a folder on the desktop, filename=forum name. I then zip them up and I am about to edit my post where I declared the winner.

EDIT: Here is the link

BMacZero
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Posted: 8th Jan 2006 17:40
Is this still a no media challenge?

[bold]Bmaczero[/bold]
Ric
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Posted: 8th Jan 2006 18:12
That makes sense - would save the arduous task of collating six months of code snippets.

Anyway - I've done a bit of plugging for this challenge on the newcomers forum and this one - and I updated the first page of the thread slightly. No changes to the rules, just slight rewording. Looking forward to having a go at this challenge - think I might try using my modeller from the modeller challenge to create a basic fps level.

Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 8th Jan 2006 19:52
An update on the Challenge Database...
1) I have put the racing game entries in.
2) I have put a new feature on the Leaderboard. Not only can you now sort the list by the two columns, but you can also click on a users name and it will list all their entries in the system (along with if it was a winner and which version it is).

Comments and suggestions welcome - I am going to put in a feature to be able to download the source as a DBA. Anything else anyone can think of? I MIGHT implement a comments feature so people can leave comments or rate an entry. Problem is - I think this might have to be a "user only" feature as public features like this tend to get spammed :-(

Ric
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Posted: 8th Jan 2006 20:01
That's great Nick. Are you going to update the link in your sig to your new site? I always make the mistake of clicking your sig thinking it will get me to the challenge database!

Darkbasic MADPSP
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Posted: 8th Jan 2006 20:19 Edited at: 8th Jan 2006 20:24
I'm finishing my entry for once
do external dll's like the one's in the wip and pa boards count? (Looks at lua.dll in dbp plugins)

http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/csimon/spain03/days2_3.htm << where i went for my holiday or www.portaventura.es
Tinkergirl
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Posted: 8th Jan 2006 20:49
Don't be using dll's, Darkbasic MAD - the idea is that anyone can run it just by copying the code and running it. Having to check for dlls isn't right
Thebeely
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Posted: 8th Jan 2006 22:18
Can we use "Save object"?

Za dom - spremni!
Ric
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Posted: 8th Jan 2006 23:09
DBMad: No media, which includes dll's!! You ask everytime if you can use external media, and we tell you every time that you can't. Everyone who tests it must be able to copy your code from the code box, paste it in their editor, and hit f5.

Thebeely: Yes, you can use any command that is native to DBPro.



Darkbasic MADPSP
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Posted: 8th Jan 2006 23:11
ok sorry ric

http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/csimon/spain03/days2_3.htm << where i went for my holiday or www.portaventura.es
Segan
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Posted: 8th Jan 2006 23:47
@Ric: Just a clear up, I liked the idea of trying a "board game" AI rather than a "racing game" AI. (sorry, should have been more specific)

@Everyone: Good luck on your entries! I can't wait to see what is accomplished in this competition.

Oh, and I might actually be able to submit an entry because it's a two week competition... But no work can be done this week
Ric
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Posted: 9th Jan 2006 00:07
Oh I get you.

Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 9th Jan 2006 00:10
Ric - just to check (this isn't applicable to this challenge) but would using DLL's that are part of windows be ok (like user32, etc...). This would be applicable if the challenge was something like a HTML parser and you wanted to be able to specify a URL. There is a snippet that uses a Windows DLL.

I personally think the rule that "it should be copy and paste-able by anyone" clearly covers the rules and it should raise no questions!

Didn't we have a scripting engine challenge once before?
*goes off to check*
Hmm.. kind of - was more of a command parser though. It would be cool to have some challenge where there is a template code (maybe a primitive, prebuilt maze or something, and a cube) and you have to build commands that can be run as a script - rather like Logo (if anyone remembers that language).

Anywho - onwards with the FPS/TPS!

I will update by banner link soon - I want to move more content into the new site before I make it live...

DarkBasic Pro Guy
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Posted: 9th Jan 2006 00:25
Quote: "Thebeely: Yes, you can use any command that is native to DBPro."
but you can't use load image or load object, anything that starts with load.

I came up with an idea for gun, bullets, bodies and everythin

I will show you when finished

Segan
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Posted: 9th Jan 2006 00:27
@Darkbasic Pro Guy: Actually (if I'm not mistaken), you can use the "load" commands as long as the program works without needing to download media. If you make it so your program creates the media, saves it, and then loads it, then that is ok!
Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 9th Jan 2006 00:33
yup - thats fine (just ).

Alternatively, if you make it load an image that is DEFINATELY going to exist, like one in a windows folder? (Ric, is that ok?)

DarkBasic Pro Guy
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Posted: 9th Jan 2006 01:35
like the bliss background image?

Ric
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Posted: 9th Jan 2006 02:18 Edited at: 9th Jan 2006 02:25
On the question of dll's and media. Here are a few thoughts to hopefully clarify a little. First, I think it's worth keeping in mind why we have the 'no media' rule. Here are four good reasons:

1) Having to download media is a hassle when all you want to do is copy, paste and hit F5.

2) We're not really that interested in your great looking media anyway - these challenges are about coding.

3) Having a no media rule puts everyone on a level playing field to begin with. We all start with nothing.

4) It means that any media you want in your entry has to be created within the code using dbp commands. I'm the first to admit that, although theses challenges are about coding, I still like to present my work as best I can, and so I'll often spend time on creating nice internal media. But that IS coding - and that's part of the challenge!

Then, before considering "is this allowed" or "is that allowed", let's ask ourselves, is it something which adheres to the four reasons above, and actually opens up programming possibilities, or is it just a loophole in order to sidesteop the no media rule?

Here's what I say:

- Plugin dll's (like Newton, EZrotate etc.): Not allowed. Not everyone will be able to run your code.

- Windows dll's. Yes, that's ok. These are different from DBP plugin dll's, in that it should exist on everyone's PC without the need to download it. So, as long as you can still copy and paste the code into your editor and hit F5, there's no hassle there. It also opens up a whole set of new possibilities which are related to coding rather than presentation.

- Advanced terrain plugin: Yes - we assume everyone has it, so it doesn't come under the same category as other plugins. Also, you still need to actually create the media - ie. the heightmap, the texturemap and the detail map - so it's not a way of getting around the no media rule.

- Locating an image that you're sure is preloaded in a certain place on everyone's harddrive: No - I don't think that should be allowed - it is a sidestep to creating the image yourself. Setting up a few 3d objects on the screen and grabbing a screenshot would be an easy way to provide an image if you needed it to demonstrate some kind of image manipulation. Incidentally, I think that assuming everyone has the same image on their hardrive in exactly the same place may be somewhat risky, considering the different versions of windows out there.

- Getting your computer to connect to the internet and have it automatically download media from a website you know exists: No - this is definitely an attempt to sidestep the no media rule. I'd call it cheating. And besides, you can't be sure the link will stay valid, some people may have firewalls which block the site, and some people may just want to have the code work offline.

As for 'load' commands, as Segan and Nick said, they are allowed so long as the code has created, saved and loaded the particular file all within the same execution.

An example of the above was RiiDii's infinite terrain challenge entry. He made the program create a height map and detail map internally, saved them, then loaded them back into DBPro, then used them with the advanced terrain plugin to create the landscape. All perfectly allowed procedures!



Don Malone
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Posted: 9th Jan 2006 04:01 Edited at: 9th Jan 2006 04:03
@Nicholas
Quote: "I know that 1st person is from the "eyes" of the player, 3rd person is from behind the player (or external), but what is 2nd person view? Would that be a shooter from the point of view of someone else?
"


I have always thought of Side Scroller games as being 2nd person shooters.

What someone standing to the side would see.

Quote: "Second person perspective: Viewing the game through a spectator's eyes, in two or three dimensions. Depending on the game, the main character is always in view. e.g. Super Mario Bros., Tomb Raider."
http://burks.brighton.ac.uk/burks/foldoc/69/88.htm

Not a definative source but kind of explains my view.
I guess that means most football games are 2nd person perspective. The game like they would see it on TV. Not from on the field.

In Memory of My Dad.
I miss you very much.
Darkbasic MADPSP
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Posted: 9th Jan 2006 20:34
Cool i can use some dll's now only one problem my windows directory is on E:\ now C:\ so that would be the only thing that needs changing is the drive letter i'll use advanced terrain as well if i can get it to work

http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/csimon/spain03/days2_3.htm << where i went for my holiday or www.portaventura.es
Sven B
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Posted: 9th Jan 2006 21:33
Third person shooters were allowed, so I'll make a third person shooter:



arrow keys to move/strafe. mouse to rotate.
controlkey to draw weapon or put it away. (When you put away your weapon, you can run faster).

Enemies not added yet.

It's the programmer's life:
Have a problem, solve the problem, and have a new problem to solve.
KimoSabi
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Posted: 9th Jan 2006 21:35
So we can do a shooter from 2nd person view such as a side scroller? Although that is kind of a different type of game it's still shooting lol. Not sure what other type of 2nd person view game there would be for a shoot-em-up.

Thanks,
Nicholas H.

My Website:

Ric
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Posted: 9th Jan 2006 22:51 Edited at: 9th Jan 2006 22:52
Quote: "So we can do a shooter from 2nd person view such as a side scroller? "


No, 2nd person view has nothing to do with side-scrollers!

The terms first, second and third person relate to pronouns in English grammar, and are used in forms of writing.

First person is "I", "Me", "Mine" etc.

Second person is "You", "Yours" etc., ie. the person you are addressing.

Third person is "Him", "His", "It", etc. - not me, not the person I'm addressing, but some third person.

If you then relate these to a point of view in a game or story, then first person ("I") means "I" am the important character, in other words everything is written and seen as if it were through my own eyes.

Third peson is as if "He" or "She" is the main character, as in Tomb Raider where we see "Her" interact with the environment, or in a story where we tell the tale of what happens to "Him", the main character.

Second Person is where the person we are addressing, "You", is most important - and we watch how "You" interact with your world. In writing, an example of second person is an instruction manual, where we would say "You need to do this" or "You should do that". In a game, I don't know of a particular example, but perhaps if we were giving orders to someone, then we would be watching how "You" respond to those orders and carry them out. Perhaps in some God like game, we would command "You" to carry out certain tasks and watch you as you did it.

Strictly speaking, then, a 2d side scroller is third person view. But I think the intention of this challenge was to write a '3d Shooter!'

Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 9th Jan 2006 22:51 Edited at: 9th Jan 2006 22:51
@Sven: Very nice start! I like the way that when you strafe, your body goes sideways but you carry on facing forwards.

@Kimo: I only asked what 2nd person was I suppose the theme is something origional that involved shooting where you are a "person"?

@DBMad: I tell you what - lets simplify the rules. You can do whatever you want. It doesn't matter. Use media, DLLS... Knock yourself out. Just remember, if the "marker" copies and pastes it and gets an error then you risk getting 'evicted' Dr Who style (with Anne Droid). Basically, you lose by default.

It is getting a little silly now. The rules are plain and simple. You must be able to copy and paste the code from a code box - just like SvenB's example.

He has used no external media or DLL's and yet within 400 lines of padded and commented code, he has produces the beginings of a Thrid Person Shooter with an animated and limbed up "person", a randomized terrain and a grassy texture on the terrain. No need for media or knowing where Windows is installed.

EDIT: Dual time posting

Ric
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Posted: 9th Jan 2006 22:54
Yeah - synchronise watches!

KimoSabi
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Posted: 10th Jan 2006 03:39
Why won't this stupid limb crap work?(lines 20-23)



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