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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / - DBPro Coding Challenges -

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Zotoaster
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Posted: 18th Jan 2006 09:39
Kabooooom! I died, but none-the-less, great game

Sven B
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Posted: 18th Jan 2006 17:20
I decided to add some explosive damage...



Same as before. Improved camera position, and added bombs.
Press right mouse button to drop a bomb, then get away. Don't get hit by the bomb, because it will decrease your life by 40 if you are constantly hit by the explosion.

It's the programmer's life:
Have a problem, solve the problem, and have a new problem to solve.
Ric
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Posted: 18th Jan 2006 18:19 Edited at: 18th Jan 2006 18:20
Another little WIP:- still no game as such, but I now have a game environment - some might say that the environment is an important part of an FPS, so that's where I've concentrated my efforts so far. Couple of screenies:



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Ric
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Posted: 18th Jan 2006 18:20 Edited at: 18th Jan 2006 18:21
And one more:



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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 18th Jan 2006 20:10
And thats entirely medialess? How many lines?

Ric
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Posted: 18th Jan 2006 23:52 Edited at: 18th Jan 2006 23:58
Entirely medialess of course! I've added an 'export data statement' function to the modeller so I can just paste the data straight into my fps. The pics above produce about 2000 separate pieces of data, ranging from the type of object, to its position, scale, uv coordinates, etc. I know it's stretching the 'reasonable amount of data' rule, but as it's data generated entirely from within my no-media modeller challenge entry, I don't feel too guilty about it.

Will post some code in a few minutes - just going to stick in some basic collision and a sky ......

The ARRAYinator
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Posted: 19th Jan 2006 01:52
Here is a quick screenshot of one I just put together.

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Ric
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Posted: 19th Jan 2006 02:32 Edited at: 19th Jan 2006 02:39
Right then - here's some code which should enable you to walk around the game environment. It's not huge, but I figured it was big enough for this challenge. Collision works okayish, and I've added a nice footstep sound in too. I haven't put any water in the swimming pool yet though.





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Phaelax
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Posted: 19th Jan 2006 03:47 Edited at: 19th Jan 2006 03:48
That's on the verge of excessive data statements I'd say. You know a data statement can contain more than 1 value, right?

data "box","4.99999952316","19.9999980927","4.99999952316","64","4"

looks nice though


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RiiDii
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Posted: 19th Jan 2006 07:50
@ Phaelax: Well, it is "technically" excessive. But the original discussion around "not allowing" excessive data statements was to prevent someone from trying to circumnavigate the "no media" rule by loading in the media (say an image for example) and having a code that would convert the image data into data statements. Ric's point is that he isn't really getting around the media-less rule because those data statements were generated by his own no-media modeling program.

End result - I'd say that is quite an achievement and is a true testiment to Ric's coding skills. Hands down - he's d@mn good.

@ Ric: Pretty excessive on the data statements there, don't you think?

btw: Seems like you've invented "Instant Town" - just add water


Open MMORPG: It's your game!
Phaelax
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Posted: 19th Jan 2006 07:54
gotcha.

Quote: "@ Ric: Pretty excessive on the data statements there, don't you think?"

sigh.....


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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 19th Jan 2006 10:57
I'm still not personally sure about those data statements myself as the game you copy and paste in doesn't actually GENERATE those values itself... But then again - where do you draw the line?

Just because Rics editor is medialess itself, doesn't mean it is necessarily ok to export data from it into another program. What makes that different to me exporting a 256x256 image as raw RGB values, getting my text editor to insert commas in the right place and putting a data statement at the begining?

As good as it looks - I'm still not 100% sure if this is a "legal" move. Its not setting a good example for the n00bs!

Tinkergirl
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Posted: 19th Jan 2006 12:56
Well, I thought the overall ideal was that as long as you could copy-paste it in to the editor, and it wasn't 'stupidly long', then it was all cool.

I haven't looked at it, but hey - imo, if it's media free, and copy-pasteable, and not silly, then it sounds ok to me.

(Though, I think I threatened to use 2000+ lines of data in an entry a while ago, and it was deemed to be a bridge too far - so I didn't. *shrugs* But I don't mind.)
Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 19th Jan 2006 14:33
Its certainly pushing the limits...

BillR
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Posted: 19th Jan 2006 14:56 Edited at: 19th Jan 2006 15:05
well, haven't had as much time as I wanted to work on this.
Just a room so far, tennis ball cannon, no game yet.
also, the A and D key moves the player left and right.

Here it is so far...
Ric
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Posted: 19th Jan 2006 16:31
I thought this one might be a bit controversial! However - all my objects and textures are generated in the code. The data statements aren't pseudo media at all - they are just object data like position, scale, uv coords. I could just have easily got the modeller to export code like 'position object x,y,z', and 'scale object x,y,z', but I was trying to be economical!

Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 19th Jan 2006 16:56
That is true - however your code to do this was generated from another program.

I personally have no problem with someone putting in 100,000,000 data statements. I think its a little cheeky, though, to use something else to generate them.

Normally, I would instantly say no on the grounds its the same as hitting export from Photoshop and selecting raw for an image datatype - however the complication here is that the program that generated them is medialess itself and has also been written by the same author as the entry thats using it (if that makes sense).

Is this medialess editor available for other challenge memebers to use?

You've managed to take the clearest, most black and white rule that there is for these challenges and find the grey bit in the middle....

Phaelax
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Posted: 19th Jan 2006 17:06
I'm fine with the statements. It beats waiting 10 minutes for Ric's code to finish making the textures every challenge.


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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 19th Jan 2006 17:20
VERY good point

All those in favour of playing one of Rics game withing 10 minutes of hitting F5?

RiiDii
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Posted: 19th Jan 2006 17:28
Nic's point is well made. Is an editor and editor regardless of who made it? MS Paint is mostly a no-media program (the icons are probably media - big deal). But to further clarify that grey area, the media isn't part of the data statements, but rather the data statements are a script that tells the code where to put the media and how to texture it. Making the media itself is coded.

But I think Nic has provide the most amount of dirt to bury this topic when he put; "Its not setting a good example for the n00bs!" I'm not referring so much to fairness, but rather how well new participants in this challenge can compete with that work. We all base our coding on past experience, and that gives the more senior challenge participants an advantage already. Ric's editor (as any of our old code) can be considered an advantage as well. I know I've gone back and pulled some of my old snippets from here and there.
Where I think this is crossing the line is that I don't think the most recent version of the editor is available for everyone to have access too (I may be wrong here Ric), and not everyone may be able to figure out how you coded your script in the time alotted for the challenge. If the challenge was to use your media-less editor to code something, and it was provided up front for that challenge - as well as some instruction on how to use it, then newer coders would be at least in the same playing field.


Open MMORPG: It's your game!
Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 19th Jan 2006 18:23
Then again - the challenge is to make an FPS. What FPS's now dont use an editor?

I personally think that if Ric puts up his latest editor and challenges anyone else to make a better FPS using it than him then all is pretty fair.

Then again - do I feel that my maze generator with transparent walls and no collision could beat Ric's Instant Town (just add water)...

Its one thing to pull code from old snippets - we all do it, either litterally from other files or from our own memories - but its an entire other thing to make a program to generate the contents for a new program...

BUT - and here, I feel, is another good point... IF Ric isn't allowed to use his medialess editor to produce a map for his game which is still copy and pastable - Riidii - how can you generate an image which is saved and then loaded into Advanced Terrain? Is that not the same?
A medialess program generating content for another program?

Zotoaster
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Posted: 19th Jan 2006 18:24
The thing about Ric's level is that it was all programmed by Ric, the level maker, and also the actual engine. Only problem is, though he made a good job rogramming both, he didn't exactly program the level from scratch, he got a visual view of what he was going to make.

Problem is that others might find it hard to compete with such a level just because they might not have taken part in the modeler challenge.

So, I will allow you to use this in your game, but just remember that I wont be paying much attention to the level, seeing as it was made by click and drag. But also sinse you did program it all, and made an engine to turn these data statements into the actual level, I will give some attention to it.

Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 19th Jan 2006 18:27
The lord hath spoken... All ye must heed pending lighting strike or disqualification...

RiiDii
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Posted: 19th Jan 2006 18:42
Quote: "Riidii - how can you generate an image which is saved and then loaded into Advanced Terrain? Is that not the same?"


To state why "I" think there is a difference. There are two programs making Ric's, and only one making mine (and if it weren't for the AT requirement, I wouldn't have to save the file at all). Also, anyone can pull the AT functions right on out of my code and plug them into their codes. While I am not sure, I don't think folks can do that with Ric's editor.

I'm not opposed to Ric's entry qualifying. I was appealing to folk's sense of balance for these challenges. Given the proper set of circumstances, it's not only "by the rules", but also balanced so that everyone is on the same playing field. I think Zotoaster has provided an adaquate solution.


Open MMORPG: It's your game!
Segan
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Posted: 19th Jan 2006 18:47 Edited at: 19th Jan 2006 18:51
I do think that there should be some consideration from the judge over what advantages some people have... For example, in my entry I did everything (except two small functions) by hand, whereas I know that Riidii for example pretty much just copied and pasted his terrain into his program. However, I don't think that we should ban Rick from using his no-media editor for the same reason that we don't ban Riidii from using his old terrain - because it makes really nice end products, and because coders who have spent a lot of time perfecting their techniques (or a generation program) should not be banned from also using these techniques. (As long as the judge and the contestants know that these advantages will not be really huge factors in the end decision because some of the contestants couldn't use them or required a big time sacrifice in order to use them.)

Edit: I should refresh my browser before I post! I didn't realise Zotoaster had already provided this same solution
Ric
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Posted: 19th Jan 2006 19:48
Lol - what have I started!!

Well, it looks like my code is going to be allowed, so out of fairness, I will make sure my editor is available to everyone to use in it's most recent version. I'll spend a bit of time making it as user friendly as possible - so it won't be ready for this challenge but hopefully any others to come.

Interesting debate, nevertheless!

KimoSabi
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Posted: 19th Jan 2006 20:09 Edited at: 19th Jan 2006 20:15
Is that program available to other users?... I don't think it should be allowed unless the program is allowed to everyone.

Thanks,
Nicholas H. (KimoSabi)

[EDIT]
Ooops, didn't see your post Ric... hope you get that out soon .

My Website:

DarkBasic Pro Guy
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Posted: 19th Jan 2006 20:32
umm, ric,


OVER 2000 lines have the data command, it has been mentioned before but I can't even make a code that long (I don't devote enough time to that)

I'd say we have a winner already, "clinched top of division"


Segan
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Posted: 19th Jan 2006 23:14
Well, here is yet ANOTHER version of my program. The gameplay is pretty much the same, but it has changed... (pretty self explanitory now).

Just as a reminder, arrow keys and control/"0" to move, click mouse to shoot.



As a side note, I might be second on the "# of data statements" list... However, they are all typed out by me and most represent "briefings" rather than gameplay.

Hope you like it (and if you notice any errors, programming or spelling etc., just post 'em)

P.S. One more thing, if you want to start at a later level, just change the "currentlevel" variable at the start of the program. You still have to see all of the briefings, but you don't have to do the earlier levels.
RiiDii
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Posted: 20th Jan 2006 00:10
This will probably be the final version of my code since I have other work to do. Here are some of the updates:

-) Changed the scale. The area is much larger now (actually, everything else is smaller)
-) Made some things a little more difficult. For example, the lymphs spawn quicker and are more difficult to target.
-) Made some things a little easier. For example, the objects needed to be found are closer to the ship. You will probably see a lot right from the start.
-) The objects do not go to the edge of the terrain, so there is no need to go clear to the edges. Instead, the objects are closer to the crash site.
-) Beacons have been added. You get two beacons. Press the "b" key to activate the beacons. The ship parts will show up as "*"s on the screen, and the ship will show up as a "+". This was added to keep the game from getting boring because you have all the lymphs under control and simply can't find that last ship piece. The beacons only last for a few seconds and you must be facing the general direction of the piece to see it (so spin around).
-) A win and lose screen. Nothing impressive. Just something to let you know you've won or died. Maybe later I will add a "movie" of the ship taking off if you win.




Open MMORPG: It's your game!
Segan
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Posted: 20th Jan 2006 00:54
Arrrggg!!! That game is hard Riidii! But it is definately fun too.
Ric
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Posted: 20th Jan 2006 03:33
Found a bit of time this evening, so here is my present to the challenge community - use at your own peril! It is the updated No-media modeller and code exporter, all in one. Just to be clear, for those that don't know, this is a drag and drop level editor that needs no media, and can be used to create no-media levels very easily.

It's incredibly simple to use:

1. Create a project folder, with this program in it.
2. Run the program, and create your scene.
3. Press the save button. Look in your project folder, and lo and behold, as well as the saved scene, which can be loaded back into the modeller for further editing, the complete code needed to recreate the scene, including data statements, has been created for you and is ready to run!

A couple of pointers for using the editor itself:

1. Use the left mouse button for x-z positioning/scaling
2. Use the right mouse button for y positioning/scaling
3. Don't use the 'erase' button - it's bugged at the moment I'm afraid.

Please feel free to give feedback regarding bugs/problems/improvements etc.





Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 20th Jan 2006 10:00
Is there any chance you could wang a compressed EXE onto the forum? I REALLY should remember to bring in a copy of DBP at some point for my work machine! ("work" machine hehe...)

Ric
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Posted: 20th Jan 2006 12:45
Here you go:

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DarkBasic Pro Guy
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Posted: 20th Jan 2006 21:52
so you've replaced your data statements with write string?

lol jk You must have a liking of using the same command a ton.

Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 21st Jan 2006 02:14 Edited at: 21st Jan 2006 02:16
Update for me:


Still cant shoot - however, cannons are in place.. A large red cross appears when you can move.. This can be caused by either obstruction or running out of energy. Energy is replenished at abuot 10 percent a second which might sound pretty quick, but it costs 20% energy to move forward and 5% to turn. I think it will cost about 30 to 50% to fire... Not sure yet. Might need balancing.

All that I need to do now is enemies/targets and firing...

Ric
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2006 12:53
Seems that the deadline passed while the server was down - I suggest extending the deadline to tomorrow (Tuesday) to give people a chance to get their final entries in. I'll post mine when I get home tonight.

Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2006 12:54
It did? Ooo... I have got some more of mine done - will post it tonight. Haven't managed to get AI working though

Ric
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2006 12:57
Me neither - AI is a toughy. You can shoot at wooden boxes in mine, though. Much more humane.

Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2006 13:17
NOT THE WOODEN BOXES? They always get flak....

RiiDii
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2006 14:48 Edited at: 23rd Jan 2006 14:49
I started shooting wooden boxes once. I just got board.


Open MMORPG: It's your game!
Ric
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2006 15:25
That just ruined my entire day.

Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2006 15:30
lol - well the higher you go, the further you fall See, if every day is equally depressing then you never get to experience the true horror of a bad joke..

KimoSabi
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2006 15:55
Hehe... well said Nicholas.

I wish you guys would hurry up and finish this challenge, can't wait to see whats next .

Thanks,
Nicholas H. (KimoSabi)

www.mightandmagic.com

Image All
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2006 16:31
Mine is done But I'll prolly take a little longer to figure out why the player and enemy flack is a little glitchy...



D=Forward
E=Backward
LShift=Slide Left
F=Slide Right
W=Slide Up
C=Slide Down
Mouse=Turn
LClick=Fire Lasers
RClick=Launch Missile

Also submitted this to the codebase

Zotoaster
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2006 17:47
Loving it image all, looks pretty good for no media.

@Nic

Your's wont work for me

Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2006 17:53
Zotoaster
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2006 17:59
You lol,

it just says "Command out of place at like 218"

Quote: "case 0 : tX = MapPos.x : tZ = MapPos.y+1 : endcase"


Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2006 18:03
Interesting - what versions of IDE/Compiler you running? I use the latest default IDE and 5.9 compiler...

I'll break the cases onto seperate lines when I get home (if I get time tonight)

Zotoaster
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2006 18:17
I dont know about the IDE, but I have U5.9

Perhaps its a concantenation problem?

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