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Geek Culture / [LOCKED] noahs ark totally debunked

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Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 07:42
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Quote: "The ark is to be 450 feet long, 75 feet wide and 45 feet high"


To hold all them animals...this really isn't that big.

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billy the kid
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 07:45 Edited at: 28th Mar 2005 07:46
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Quote: "We don't have to follow those commandments anymore after Jesus was born in the beginning of the New Testament. That was one of the major points"


Actually that depends on which version of Christianity you subscribe too.

EDIT:
If you really think humans lived to be 1000 at any point in our history, you must be smoking a lot more crack than me.
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Jeku
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 07:45 Edited at: 28th Mar 2005 07:48
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Well there were a whole lot less animal species back then than now.


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Jeku
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 07:47 Edited at: 28th Mar 2005 07:47
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Quote: "Actually that depends on which version of Christianity you subscribe too."


Um, as far as I know all "Christians" believe this. And I don't "subscribe" to any one denomination.

EDIT: Ooops--- sorry about the double post :-P


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Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 07:47
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Quote: "Now the springs of the deep and the floodgates of the heavens had been closed"


Well..before these floods was water barely existent in the world? Because as far as I know water does not leave the earth and I highly doubt they had space travel back then...so if enough water was created to cover the earth...that must be how much we have now. So before...there must've been barely any water...right?

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billy the kid
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 07:49 Edited at: 28th Mar 2005 07:53
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How is that a problem exactly? If scientists werent like that, they wouldnt do tests to see if something will fail. And I really dont think you want some heavy piece of machinery to fail like a car, plane, etc.

EDIT:
Jeku edited his scientist comment, so now it is in the post below this one.
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Jeku
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 07:49 Edited at: 28th Mar 2005 07:50
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Quote: "Well..before these floods was water barely existent in the world? Because as far as I know water does not leave the earth and I highly doubt they had space travel back then...so if enough water was created to cover the earth...that must be how much we have now. So before...there must've been barely any water...right?"


This is the problem with "scientists" needing science to prove everything. Just like I've said time and again, IF you believe that God created the entire earth and everything on it, a simple matter of removing water is not even arguable.


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Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 07:51
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Quote: "And for your lifeblood I will surely demand"


Does this mean human sacrifice? or is it just me?

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Jeku
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 07:52
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Quote: "How is that a problem exactly? If scientists werent like that, they wouldnt do tests to see if something will fail. And I really dont think you want some heavy piece of machinery to fail like a car, plane, etc."


It's a problem when we hear the same arguments again and again from "scientists". "Bah, the ark was too small for all the animals. Bah, how could it be physically possible for the water to fill the earth then disappear without space travel." etc. etc.

This is what Jimmy was referring to when people who have faith are being called disillusional or not thinking.


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Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 07:54 Edited at: 28th Mar 2005 07:54
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Quote: " When he drank some of its wine, he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent"


Noah got wasted! For being hundreds of years old...he sure knows how to live.

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JoelJ
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 07:54
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the clean animals vs unclean thing is simple.
if you would eat it, it's clean, if you wouldnt it's 'unclean'

would you eat a giraffe?(sp?)

but back then they were more strict on what meats were clean and what meats werent


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Jeku
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 07:54
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Quote: "Does this mean human sacrifice? or is it just me?"


I believe what God is saying is that we are not to eat raw flesh from any animal. And it says we will be held accountable for killing another man, whereby a man who kills another should also be killed.


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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 07:55
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Quote: "If you really think humans lived to be 1000 at any point in our history, you must be smoking a lot more crack than me."


Quote: "IF you believe that God created the entire earth and everything on it, a simple matter of removing water is not even arguable."


exactly, there are many stories of people becoming immortal or having considerable lifespans.

once example is the story of some men who escaped a banishment of monotheism (i think it was by the romans). they all met at a cave where they shared each others knowledge and had a pet dog, and food supplys. one night they all went to sleep and woke up 1000yrs later (including the dog)... not sure what happened afterwards.

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billy the kid
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 07:55
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Well the same can be said of those annoying "faithists" who get on their soapbox just to tell us how horrible us non-believers are, over and over.

Quote: "Um, as far as I know all "Christians" believe this."


Your knowledge does not go far enough obviously.
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Jeku
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 07:56
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@Apolloed --- The easiest version to read is the New Living Text version. Here's the link:

http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Genesis%206-9;&version=51;

And here's the same text you were quoting in easier to understand language (I know I have a hard time understanding the King James version too):

Quote: "God blessed Noah and his sons and told them, "Multiply and fill the earth. All the wild animals, large and small, and all the birds and fish will be afraid of you. I have placed them in your power. I have given them to you for food, just as I have given you grain and vegetables. But you must never eat animals that still have their lifeblood in them. And murder is forbidden. Animals that kill people must die, and any person who murders must be killed. Yes, you must execute anyone who murders another person, for to kill a person is to kill a living being made in God's image. Now you must have many children and repopulate the earth. Yes, multiply and fill the earth!""



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JoelJ
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 07:56 Edited at: 28th Mar 2005 07:58
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Quote: "I look for the evidence first."

i once watched a special on this subject. the question was more of a "where'd all the water come from?" rather than "how was the boat so big" but it was really interesting and more-or-less proves that it did happen and stuff.

Quote: " @Apolloed --- The easiest version to read is the New Living Text version."


yeah, but it distorts the text more than you think, we were just talking about that in a class i have at school.


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billy the kid
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 07:59
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You actually believe that story El_Goorf? Sounds like a great fiction novel to me.
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Jeku
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 07:59 Edited at: 28th Mar 2005 08:02
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Quote: "Well the same can be said of those annoying "faithists" who get on their soapbox just to tell us how horrible us non-believers are, over and over."


Hehehe the same argument ad nauseum.

Quote: "Your knowledge does not go far enough obviously."


Oh really? Ok, you obviously know more about this than me, tell me which denomination still believes that we must follow the old Jewish laws.

EDIT:
I'm not talking about THe 10 Commandments but the laws you were referring to in Leviticus.


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Jeku
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 08:01
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Quote: "Sounds like a great fiction novel to me."


Are you going to write this after everything we say? *cough* stubborn *cough*


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Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 08:01
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Well I have had enough bible talk for one day.

*** goes to get some Jesus juice ***

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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 08:01
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i just said its a story, tis all.

Quote: "Well the same can be said of those annoying "faithists" who get on their soapbox just to tell us how horrible us non-believers are, over and over."


excuse me but who started this thread and all the other relgion vs atheism threads? atheist or relious person. i've never once told an atheist he's going to hevean/hell nor have i done so to a religeous person, i find it unethical and imoral, yet i am religous myself.

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Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 08:03
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Quote: "atheist or relious person"


Whoa! Actually...atheism IS a religion....cannot compare the two.

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Jimmy
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 08:03
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Quote: "Quote: "Your knowledge does not go far enough obviously."

Oh really? Ok, you obviously know more about this than me, tell me which denomination still believes that we must follow the old Jewish laws."


Umm... the jews.

Genesis 6:23 "And the animals did commence to get jiggy wit it."

So that uh... that right there is proof.


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Jeku
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 08:04
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Quote: "i've never once told an atheist he's going to hevean/hell nor have i done so to a religeous person, i find it unethical and imoral, yet i am religous myself."


I totally understand this. Seems anytime I get into this kind of debate, I hear somebody whining about having religion rubbed in their faces. Like El Goorf, I've never told somebody they're going to hell either. I'm not sure where people get this information.

Before we go any further I want to say that just as there are extremist Muslims, there are extremist Christians, who go against the Bible in their "doings". Those types of people make the rest of the Christians look bad IMHO.


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Jeku
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 08:06
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Quote: "Umm... the jews. "


I mean which "Christian" denomination. He said there are Christians who believe they have to follow the old Jewish laws. Jews do not refer to themselves as Christians


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Jimmy
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 08:08
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Genesis 6:24 "And great was the jiggy thereof"


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Jeku
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 08:09
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Hehehe... By that time Moses must have been drinking a bit too much wine


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billy the kid
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 08:11 Edited at: 28th Mar 2005 08:12
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Quote: "Are you going to write this after everything we say? *cough* stubborn *cough*"


I can if you want me to, not sure why you are coughing. Are you sick? But seriously, believing that story actually happened is like believing anything you read in those magazines about UFOs, bigfoot, etc. Believing that junk requires faith too.

Quote: "Oh really? Ok, you obviously know more about this than me, tell me which denomination still believes that we must follow the old Jewish laws."


To be super technical, any demoniation that follows the ten commandments or thinks Genesis is true. To be more specific, there is a denomination of Christians called Fundamentalists. They believe the entire bible should be taken literally word for word. Even though they really dont because they dont follow those other commandments.
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Jimmy
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 08:12
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Yeah, I think you're right, any Christian denomination that doesn't follow the new law isn't Christian. So that would have to be all of them.

He just don't know anything.


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JoelJ
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 08:15
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i believe the book of genesis to be true, but i dont follow the old jewish traditions

for example, i havnt sacrificed any animals lately, but i do follow the ten commandments
and i am sure i have typed more than the legal limit for one sabath day if i were a jew, but i dont care


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Jeku
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 08:15 Edited at: 28th Mar 2005 08:17
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Quote: "To be super technical, any demoniation that follows the ten commandments or thinks Genesis is true. To be more specific, there is a denomination of Christians called Fundamentalists. They believe the entire bible should be taken literally word for word. Even though they really dont because they dont follow those other commandments."


Christians regard Genesis as true, in that you're right. But Christians also believe that when Jesus was born in the beginning of the New Testament, he released us from that. We do have to try and follow the 10 Commandments from Moses' time, but it is impossible for humans to follow them all (because we're not perfect). Because Jesus died on the cross for our sins, then we are saved anyways.

Fundamentalists--- I know some Christians are called Fundamentalists, but I didn't know it was a denomination. But if it's true, then that is the only denom. that believes we must still follow the original laws. In fact, I am still skeptical because those laws were meant for the Jews originally.

EDIT: And the word Christian has Christ, Jesus in it. Jesus released us from those laws.


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billy the kid
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 08:16 Edited at: 28th Mar 2005 08:18
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El_Goorf - I never said YOU are one of those people. Reread it again, you will see. Nor was I saying that about anyone in this thread except ionstream. The people Im generally refering to are those guys that come to a college campuses and start shouting. Or the guys you see on TV. Except for ionstream, no one seems to fit that category.
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billy the kid
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 08:20
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Quote: "And the word Christian has Christ, Jesus in it."


You should change your alias to Mr. Obvious. It fits better I think.
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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 08:21 Edited at: 28th Mar 2005 08:24
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Quote: "Whoa! Actually...atheism IS a religion....cannot compare the two"
last time there was a thread like this, i was told by all the athiests involved that athiesm wasnt... sheeesh who doesnt know their own religeon now? make your minds up people.

Quote: "Before we go any further I want to say that just as there are extremist Muslims, there are extremist Christians, who go against the Bible in their "doings". Those types of people make the rest of the Christians look bad IMHO."

i notice athiests always pointing out that christians, jews, hindus, sikhs, mulsims and past religeons such as what the romans, greeks and egyptians believed in all to have been an excuse for war, especially with this war on terror going on.
but i find all this statistically insignificant, compared with all the modern day to day threats to society, such as binge drinking, do you ever see devout christians/jews/mulsims going out getting pissed and then trashing the city?

before you try making out that religeon causes so much problem in the world, think of all the problems it doesnt have. i rest my case.

edit: and fyi, this is why we allow so many immigrants into europe. example being germany. out of 5000 murderers in german prisons in the yr 2000, only 2 of them were non-athiest.
religous people cant steal, cheat, lie, murder or rob without getting a massive guilt trip about it afterwards, so we dont.

edit2: forgot to mention those 2 non athiests were immigrants from the middle east somewhere...

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JoelJ
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 08:22
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amen


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Jimmy
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 08:24
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And I sit on his case. Kudos to Froogo.


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empty
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 08:27
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Quote: "out of 5000 murderers in german prisons in the yr 2000, only 2 of them were non-athiest."

Sorry, I find it a bit hard to believe. Even though in the norhern part of Germany religion doesn't play a very important role, esp in the catholic areas the people seem to be very religious and won't classify themselves as atheists.

Quote: "religous people cant steal, cheat, lie, murder or rob without getting a massive guilt trip about it afterwards, so we dont."

Being an atheist does not automatically imply the lack of ethics.


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Jeku
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 08:27
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Quote: "You should change your alias to Mr. Obvious. It fits better I think."


Um, this was directed at you since you can't seem to grasp the obvious.

Or did you forget what you and I were talking about? About Christians and the old l.... ahh never mind. You'll probably forget in a few minutes and I'll have to remind you again.


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Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 08:29
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Quote: "sheeesh who doesnt know their own religeon now"


First off, I am not atheist...so it is not my religion. Everyone automatically assumes that atheists are the only people who do not believe in a god.

Anyways...atheism IS a religion because atheists DO have beliefs. Atheists believe a god is non-existent. Anything set of beliefs could be classified as a religion...even if it is not well known.

As for me, I have NO religion. But I am not atheist because I am not positive there is no god. It just seems to be the most logical choice...if someday I was convinced on way or the other...I would have a belief...but I have NO beliefs in the spiritual sense so therefore I am not atheist.

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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 08:29
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sorry, i just get offended deeply when someone tries to tell me im an idiot for believing in God and then try to make out i call them idiots for not believing.

necause i dont and i've never seen anyone else.

i gladly preach my religeon if anyone's interested.

i find these threads the most hypocritical ever. i thought the last one of these threads would be the last and then i see this.

so what if religeon's got such a big impact on the world. without it you wouldn't have holidays or weekends, and the ONE friggin time of the year when the western world learns about giving and sharing is on christmas, yes so many people don't believe in jesus.

a world without religeon would surely be mundane hell.

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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 08:33 Edited at: 28th Mar 2005 08:37
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Quote: "Being an atheist does not automatically imply the lack of ethics."


yeh but you dont get the feeling that a thunderbolts about to smite your arse do ye?

Quote: "atheism IS a religion because atheists DO have beliefs"


when i said this, everyone immediately looked in the dictionary and said "religeon: the belief or faith in a god" or something similar

and ijust looked, it said "athiesm: the disbelief in a god" just because of a disbelief, doesnt mean there is a belief.

Quote: "But I am not atheist because I am not positive there is no god"

now who's on the crack? atheists are anyone who doesn't believe in god.

edit: ah, sorry, i didnt see the "not" there, quit with double negatives!

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Jimmy
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 08:36
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Quote: "Anything set of beliefs could be classified as a religion...even if it is not well known.

As for me, I have NO religion."


But you just stated your beliefs earlier in this thread remember? You are religios.


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empty
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 08:36
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Quote: "yeh but you dont get the feeling that a thunderbolts about to smite your arse do ye?"

Hmm, not really, no.


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JoelJ
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 08:38
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these kinds of threads always seem to become funny when jimmy starts posting for some reason....

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Ace Of Spades
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 08:40
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Quote: "But you just stated your beliefs earlier in this thread remember? You are religios."


I just stated it is not logical to me. Doesn't mean I believe that is whats true.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 08:45
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I can't be bothered to read all this thread as I assume everyone is telling eachother how much they are wrong(thats typical of these kind of discussions in these forums) but I would just like to say one thing:

PEANUT BUTTER AND JELLY TIME!

</randomness>


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Teh Go0rfmeister
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 08:47
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ben, funny you mention that, since its always around the bottom of the 3rd page that everyone resorts to random posts :S

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Killswitch
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Posted: 28th Mar 2005 08:55
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*Some* christians regard genisis as true, *some* however can see a story when they see one. I go to a catholic school, and I was raised a catholic, but I am an aetheist (long story).

The creation story is just a way for people, in an age where everything seemed mystical and complex, to understand how the earth was created - it was a story.

Parts of the old testimant are based on legands (one;s as old as 6000 years - the Messabatiamians had some legends that are encourporated in the bible).

Noah's ark as a story is, of course, completly impossible - there's no way you could get two of every animal on any boat you could build back then. However there is evidenence for a great flood thousands of years ago, and may I remind you that jsut a few months ago there was a huge 'flood' - the tsunami.

You have to remember that the storys would have been verbal only for generations, and would have been changed and exargerated - but the basic story stays the same. Just play a game of chinese wisphers - see how much a simple sentance can change. Even when they're written down the original texts would have been in ancient hebrew. Copies were made (margin for error) then copies in other languages (margin for error) then modern copies so we can understand them (yet more margin for error).

Just search google, and see how many different versions of the bible there are - and that's not even the full lot. There are hundreds of other books that the vatican hasn't included - some because they are quie obviously fakes, and others because they don't fit in with the others.

~It's a common mistake to make, the rules of the English langauge do not apply to insanity~
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Eric T
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Joined: 7th Apr 2003
Location: My location is where I am at this time.
Posted: 28th Mar 2005 08:57 Edited at: 28th Mar 2005 09:12
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Quote: ""religous people cant steal, cheat, lie, murder or rob without getting a massive guilt trip about it afterwards, so we dont.""


The ten comammandments are bullsh*t... I guess my arguement here would be best stated by carlin in his "two commandments", I'll give ya the jist of it (from the best of my memory.. if i miss a part then meh):


http://www.dvrbs.com/GeorgeCarlin-TheTenCommandments.htm

I found a HTM version

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JoelJ
21
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Joined: 8th Sep 2003
Location: UTAH
Posted: 28th Mar 2005 08:59
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Quote: "however can see a story when they see one"

most people see what they see

My sig is too big! It must be below 600x120... thanks!
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