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FPSC Classic Product Chat / About Selling your FPSC games

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PAS
17
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Joined: 3rd Jan 2007
Location: Ann Arbor, MI. USA
Posted: 27th Jan 2007 03:59
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Hi,
I asked the Moderators for advice earlier and was told to email them, so I did and received no reply. So here I go with what I wanted to say, because all of the other topics were closed because they were so outdated without any replies. I would like to say *****This is not a sales pitch***** This is a contribution to the community for whoever would want to utilize it if anyone at all even does. I saw that throughout the years people have inquired about how and where they can sell their FPSC Games and no one had answers except for them to create their own outlets. Other problems I saw was that some people could not afford packaging option to sell their games in standard packaging. Due to the quality of FPSC its easy to create a quality game that can be bought. I put together my own outlet and made a sales outlet for FPSC and anyone else in any forum to sell their games through electronic distribution or through packaging. There are no up front fees, no deposits. Its basically on demand sales with electronic distribution and standard packaging that I provide. The seller pays no upfront fees. This is a system designed for the person with no money, and all you need is the FPSC software and create a cool game. I will even provide a game packer as well as free promotion. I run my own business so I do have contacts and resources to put this together and have. Anyone who is interested in selling their game then feel free to contact me. I appreciate everyones add ons and contributions to make FPSC really great. I am hoping this resource can be another great contribution for everyone else too. At the very least I will sell my games through there. I already have some independent publishers signing on to sell their games through here and they think the program is great. So, feel free to check it out if selling your game was a option you wanted to have. Thank you everyone for your contributions and support.
Sincerely,
Kenny (PAS)

K.L. Phair
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Inspire
17
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Joined: 23rd Dec 2006
Location: Rochester, NY
Posted: 27th Jan 2007 22:47 Edited at: 28th Jan 2007 16:18
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I'm planning on selling my game as soon as I'm finished with it....

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Owen
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Joined: 9th Nov 2006
Location: A Cottage, UK
Posted: 28th Jan 2007 01:50 Edited at: 28th Jan 2007 01:50
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I can imagine this will be great help for someone who wants to sell their games.... It seems too good, whats the catch ?

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Seth Black
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
19
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Joined: 22nd Feb 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posted: 28th Jan 2007 02:30
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Quote: "Thank you for visiting EGameStudio.Com and for considering us as your distributor. EGameStudio was established for the benefit of the independent game publisher and game programmer. EGameStudio.Com understands that there are many independent game publishers as well as game creators who produce quality games, but unfortunately due to either manufacturing or distribution problems, cannot obtain proper product placement. Many distributors as well as retail centers, do not accept products that are not properly packaged. Many game developers and game creators do not have the resources to mass distribute packaged games. EGameStudios.Com can fill this void for you, because EGameStudio.Com is associated with Phair Art Studio, (PAS), who work in 3D Animation and Visual Effects, who also do DVD and CD duplication and replication, as well as packaging and who also manufacture and distribute their own products. With PAS working with EGameStudio.Com, we can offer several distribution options. If at a later time you would like to distribute your game to stores, then Phair Art Studio can mass produce your product for retail store placement as well as EGameStudio.Com writing a letter of recommendation to the stores for you to support the sales of your game. EGameStudio.Com will write a recommendation letter after your game has been sold with us for at least 90 days so we can track proper sales statistics for your letter. All games sold by EGameStuido.Com will automatically be offered in these two distribution options.

Electronic Distribution & Standard Packing Distribution

EGameStudio.Com will store your games on separate servers then our web hosting server for electronic distribution.

These are special security servers that are used specifically for electronic file storage and electronic distribution that have high end encryption prevent hackers from reaching your game files.

With electronic distribution we pack your game into a game packer if you do not already have a game packer for your game, or EGameStudio.Com can recommend you a game packer if you would like to buy your own game packer software. EGameStudio.Com will be more then happy to pack your game files for you at no extra charge. You send us the license agreement that we put into the game packing so that when unpacked it will distribute the license agreement between you and the buyer.

For standard distribution we will package your game in a secure DVD lock box that will have a front cover that you can send us the design for or that we can make a very standard design for as well as a CD imprint design.

For both electronic and standard distribution, we will also make a game manual. If applicable, we will also design a DVD strategy guide that you can include hints, tips, cheat codes, and other special information not disclosed in the manual. This Strategy Guide can be distributed electronically as a separate file to the game, or with standard packaging as a DVD with full menu in a double pack DVD case.

We only take 15% fees from your total retail price of your product for electronic distribution and 25% for Standard Distribution. Places such as Amazon.com take as much as 45% of your profits to distribute through them. So if you sold your electronic game for $5, we would only take 75 cents to cover hosting and distribution fees as well as credit card and check processing fees.

In addition to distributing your games, all games by EGameStudio.Com will also receive extra benefits such as doing a review of your game that we post on our website. We also post random reviews on our news sections on PhairArtStudio.Com as well as InfoCorp.Org which receives over 50,000 hits a month and is known as a free information resource.

In addition, EGameStudio.Com also has a podcast that will feature a full review and inside look of your product. that can be found on Apple iTunes.

We will offer free random banner advertising for your game. EGameStudio.Com will use our networks banner impressions to create free banners that show off your product and let the consumer know that you can obtain that product here at EGameStudio.Com for free.

EGameStudio.com will also video record actual playing segments from your game. We have computer recording software that we can also distribute on video podcasts as well as through YouTube.com and MySpace.com so that your potential customers can see for themselves the quality of your game and how fun it can be. Our video recording software cannot record all types of games, but we will make every effort to do this.

After your game has been distributed through EGameStudio.Com for at least 90 days, we will give you the option to have us contact stores and distribute your product to them. You can use Phair Art Studio to mass produce your game, or another manufacturer. EGameStudio.Com will contact independent retailers in your area, as well as large game chains such as GameStop, which includes FuncoLand and Electronic Boutique to get your game placed in their stores. This is a free service we offer for saying thanks for selling your game through EGameStudio.Com. As we cannot guarantee placement anywhere, we will make our best efforts to have your game placed somewhere.

This is a full service distribution option offered by EGamestudio.Com, where we will also handle your packaging at a low distribution price to give you the best distribution options. We value your hard work to create and publish a game, and we would like to assist you in getting your products into the hands of eager consumers, when other distributors and retailers will not even try. EGameStuio.Com will present your product in a professional manner and we have superior customer service and secure payment processing."


"...I'm sorry, could you repeat your question a little louder? I'm a trifle deaf in this ear."

- Willie Wonka
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PAS
17
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Joined: 3rd Jan 2007
Location: Ann Arbor, MI. USA
Posted: 28th Jan 2007 04:58
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I am glad at the positive feedback.

@ Oninmista n00b: There is honestly no catch. Everything is done so that you do not pay any up front money. I run my own animation and manufacturing company. I thought this would be a good idea for the people who want to sell their games but do not have the resources to. I do take out a small percentage fee, but that covers processing, storage and distribution costs. I am making a game with FPSC and will be selling it. FPSC is a great program and its fun to do stuff with it. I just thought this would help aspiring game developers whether they are using FPSC, DarkBasic, 3D Game Studio or whatever platform they choose. I will be selling some mainstream titles but am focusing on independent titles form people who want to sell their game.

@ Seth Black: Thanks for posting the page of what I am trying to do. I don't know why I didn't do that.

For everyone: Anyone who wants to contact me, you can obtain my e-mail from here as I have it listed in my profile or post something here and I can answer your questions or read your feedback. If anyone has feedback on how to better improve this for the benefit of everyone who makes games with TGC's products, let me know. I am open to suggestions help.

I appreciate everyones support. If theres any way to give the support back let me know.

K.L. Phair
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Silvester
18
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Joined: 7th Dec 2005
Location: Netherlands
Posted: 28th Jan 2007 13:35
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Ill keep this site in mind...as i want to sell MultiMap V1.3 soon.

And well,i have more secret programs dieing to be sold here (90% are finished of them BTW...)

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PAS
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Joined: 3rd Jan 2007
Location: Ann Arbor, MI. USA
Posted: 28th Jan 2007 18:53
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@ Prince of Darkness: Yea I have seen your screenshots and you got some really good and cool work. So do these programs work with FPSC? I ask because I myself am always looking for good programs to integrate with FPSC to improve my own games. Keep up the good work. The shots I have seen of your School Of Doom look really good.

K.L. Phair
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Silvester
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Location: Netherlands
Posted: 28th Jan 2007 19:08
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I always make applications for FPSC,but m working on getting a segment maker,entity maker and decal maker into 1 application.

So im having to combine all my current programs into 1.

(BTW,those may take a while.i have WAY to much projects running now...)

You can look at this for MultiPlayer map binding.it works and i havent had any bugs from the latest V1.2

http://e-dromeproductions.co.uk/MultiMap/

Im planning to sell V1.3 however it takes a bit longer then i hoped it would.

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Benjamin A
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Joined: 31st Oct 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Posted: 28th Jan 2007 22:52
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The idea is good, but how can we be sure you really do what you claim to do? Do you have any credentials? Experience? I've followed the links given and they all basically point to 'empty' websites, all owned by you, for example this one:

Quote: "EGameStudios.Com can fill this void for you, because EGameStudio.Com is associated with Phair Art Studio, (PAS), who work in 3D Animation and Visual Effects, "


Sorry to sound a bit negative perhaps, but I really don't trust people who one are affiliated/associated with themselves. That is personal experience. I've been tricked by phony publishers before and they all have the same story as you do. They took my games, made good money, but never paid me. They all followed the same pattern.... being affiliated/associated with a number of websites all owned by themselves. I've been creating games since 1998 and have met to many pretend publishers.

I'm not saying this has to be the case with you, but we've had a number of 'so called' publishers & publisher wannebees before, who were only interested in getting the games.

I'm really interested in this, but at the same time some alarm bells start ringing, so perhaps somehow you can easy my mind and win me over? Perhaps some credentials or something to back up your story?

I'm not trying to knock you down, I'm just securing my 'babies' from getting abused I'd rather see you added to my list of trusted publishers!

Also I'd like to ask you of you deal with non-exclusive or exlusive publishing contracts and do you pay royalties due through Paypal? Also is your main interest in 3D games or are you looking at other genres also?

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
GameFun4U, the ultimate funtainment. Cool Games and Resources for your own games.
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PAS
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Joined: 3rd Jan 2007
Location: Ann Arbor, MI. USA
Posted: 29th Jan 2007 02:43
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@ Prince Of Darkness: The Multi Map looks good. It is better to take your time and have a quality product then to rush it and have problems. You have a good idea with this product and when it is released, I am sure it will be popular.

@ Benjamin A: Hey, I totally understand where you are coming from. I welcome questions as well as input such as the input you gave. To answer your questions I run my own network over the Internet. I am a distributor of games and not a publisher, meaning that I distribute games regularly for a living. I also do manufacturing of games, albums etc. mainly on an independent level in the States. I have never had a complaint against me anywhere. I am also a verified PayPal member and am getting EGameStudio.Com as a verified site as we speak. I just finished designing the actual site right before I did the post which is why there is no content yet. I am honestly not what I would consider a formal "publisher," as I mainly am a distributor of products. The only reason why I am doing the manufacturing on demand part is to give people a chance to sell in standard packaging if they cannot afford it. After the sit gets verified, then I will have a verification label put on the site. It should be no longer then ten days from today as we are pushing this as quickly as possible and are going through the steps of getting EGameStudio.Com a verified site, so that people can feel more comfortable. As far a smy other sites,, those are a part of my network and the links do work and will take you to the sites. One is for my company, and the other is for a free resource that I run. All I can say is that I am sorry you got ripped off, it can happen, however I distribute different independent titles here and there, and I have been a retailer for selling games for a while. I get the games at wholesale price and sell them a little below MSRP, but as I said before, EGameStudio is really a site intended for independent distribution. I will not say I am a game publisher except for those games that I have designed myself. I learned about FPSC just a few months ago and this will be the first time using a program like it to sell games commercially. I do have experience has I have worked in the gaming industry for a few years which is not long compared to others, but I do have a degree in 3D Animation and Visual Effects and am working on my Masters Program for this in a double major. The real reason why I bought FPSC was because of the community here. I have never before seen any one product receive so much support and add on form different sources. The only program I have seen like this that even offer add ons is Torque. However FPSC has a lot more contributions then Torque. So, I understand your caution due to the past experiences you described. If you want, keep an eye on the website, and wait to hear feedback form other people. As time goes on I will be adding testimonials from those who are selling the games there. As time goes on the site will develop its reputation. I have had other people email me saying they will have projects done months from now. If you have any doubts or just want to see if I am going to follow through on this, then feel free to wait until we develop a reputation that makes you feel comfortable before letting us distribute your game. I have a game packer and other resources that I am including free, and all the resources I am offering are resources I have and still use myself. So, I ma not doing a process or using resources for other peoples games that I myself don't use. I want anyone who uses this resource to feel 100% comfortable, and I do not take skepticism offensively. We do require that the person selling the game must be 18 years old at least, so that the sales agreement will be legal. We draw up a complete sales agreement with exact amounts based upon the sales price of your game, when you will be paid, etc. Its all in writing with each of us having a copy.

The contracts are not exclusive and we encourage people to sell their games through as many places as they can. If a game is good and well created there is a chance to maybe in the future get it into some stores, but that really depends on the game. On this website to start out, we will be selling some major titles such as Age Of Empires Warchiefs, Gold editions and special editions of new games. I have worked with major and small time publishers and we usually sell games from manufacturers or overstocked items to small stores. All of our games that are form major publishers will always be well below MSRP price and will be the first time we are retailing them to the public. After we get more independent publishers signed up, then we will distribute less mainstream titles of games form larger publishers. I deal with PC, Mac, Microsoft including XBox, Sony including Playstation, and Nintendo platforms, but the website will only be offering computer games. Thats what we want EGameStudio.Com to be known for, as a computer game independent distributor for platforms created by independent game makers or small independent companies.

PayPal is the best and most convenient way to make payments as it is also a way to keep records for tax purposes. As of right now I would say yes, because I deal with people all over the world as of right now and everyone I knows deals with PayPal as well. We are based in the US and wire transfers and currency changes etc. are a big hassle to do which is why anyone on the Internet has a payment processor. Plus, PayPal is also free to sign up to get money. So it is not as if you have to pay to sign up.

The types of games I like to distribute are action, but I have distributed other genres and also do not mind distributing 2D games. What it really comes down to is content. How well is the game. This is why when it comes down to selling games, I don't tell people to package it themselves, because if I ma distributing a game, it needs to be professionally packages as well as be of quality, to maintain a good reputation that I distribute quality games. That is why I offer the game packer because you do not want a game packer that says, this is the free version of this installer, if you are presenting yourself as a quality distributor. When you have a game that looks just as good as a mainstream computer publisher, and performs just as good, then people will look at your game as a professional product too. Thats what EGameStudio.Com is trying to do and its purpose. Creating a professional resource that anyone can use, without having to pay up font fees and all the other red tape.

I hope this answers your questions and feel free to email me or make a post here and I will answer the post as quickly as possible.
Sincerely,

K.L. Phair
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Butter fingers
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Joined: 20th Mar 2006
Location: Mecca
Posted: 29th Jan 2007 03:18
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I think its a wicked idea, but I have no confidence in you.

I checked out all your sites. They all say alot, but have no evidence

Quote: "We do gaming, 3D animated movies, Special Effects, music videos as well as make commercials. We mainly do in house projects but do offer some services to certain clienets who would like to outsource our services. We use the latest technology in 3D Animation."


You do all that, but have nothing to show for it on your site?
Quote: "
K.L. Phair was accepted into the Academy of Art University at the beginning of 2006."


So your just starting into your second year of University? And you claim to be experienced. I say, show me these adverts, games and other "projects" you've worked on, and I'll gladly let you distribute my goods, but right now, I'd feel safer distributing my own stuff

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the_winch
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Location: Oxford, UK
Posted: 29th Jan 2007 03:38 Edited at: 29th Jan 2007 03:44
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Yeah, it's a bit odd someone would have all that experience but not know anybody who could knock together a decent website.

How are you going to create a website selling games if you have to resort to something like this just to knock together a simple 4 page website?

If you actually had the required infrastructure up and running instead of a few websites with practically no content I'm sure people would have much more confidence.

By way of demonstration, he emitted a batlike squeak that was indeed bothersome.
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PAS
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Location: Ann Arbor, MI. USA
Posted: 29th Jan 2007 06:04
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@ Butterfingers: It is OK that anyone has skepticism. I did not say on any one of my websites that I was starting a second year at a University. I am into the second year of working for my masters degree so I can teach at a college in the near future, but thats about it. As far as experience, I am not the most experienced person, but I do have more then a few years. At the same time, anyone can doubt me. I am not trying to throw a sales pitch. If I was ripped off in the ways that Benjamin A described I would be skeptical too. Skepticism is OK with me just as you not having any confidence in me. Honestly, why should you have confidence in me? I am not asking anyone to. All I am saying is watch the website as it grows and then when you see the developments make up your mind then. The website is not complete, but judge it now or judge it later that is up to you. It has no change on how things operate for me and what I am doing. I posted this post as a resource option, and thats what it is now, and will always be. Whether anyone here takes it or not is up to them. I have people signing up to sell their games from me and I will deliver what I say I can because I have no purpose in this website, then to do what I say I will do. I am a man of leading by example, which is why I say have your skepticism, and see the events that take place. Feel free to distribute you games. I encourage it. EGameStudio.Com is a option and even in my earlier post, I said for it not to be your only option. If all these people claiming to be publishers came through ripped my stuff off I wouldn't just hand my game over to someone claiming something which is why I do not press the issue. No sales pitches here, just straight talk and you take it for what its worth. I am going to try to have the site completed by the first, but you can check back here and see when its done as I will make a post here stating so. Regardless of if you ever use this resource or not, there was an earlier post that made it seem like you made some good games with FPSC, so either way I hope you have success with your games whether you use this resource or not. I just wanted to set the facts straight that I was a two year student claiming to have experience. I've been in college for over five years and this is my third college. I say that not in defense, but because regardless of what anyone thinks good or bad, I want the correct facts about me out there. So with your games I wish you the best and thanks for the post here.

@ The_Winch: Well I knocked the websites together myself, all of them actually. As far as using SohoLaunch, as my website editor, well I see no fault in that as it is a very popular program like Cubecart. I was going to use Cubecart originally and have a mod add on for people to create their own accounts but I decided to have a closer watch as to the quality of games sold through the site. So, I went with my other choice. If you really know about SohoLaunch, you will not see any of my website designs on there. The EgameStudio.Com has actually pictures coming from games Such as Extreme MotoCross (the girl), Counter Strike (bottom right hand corner) and Halo (what some call the space guy with the gun). :o) So whats wrong with SohoLaunch? Its an editor, LOL, it is like using a game editor. I have used Joomla, Cubecart and a whole bunch of others. I was just wondering where you were going with that, and it honeslty seems funny that you made it seme like anyone who uses a website editor is discredited. :o) If that's the case, we have a lot of professional people out there who don't know to much if they use editors. I did not use templates from it as my source of content so.... But as I stated before, if anyone does or does not have confidence it will not change the facts of what I am doing. So, once again, I also wish you the best in the process of your games and hope you have success with it. Thank you for your post as well and be sure to check back when the website is complete. There are going to be some really cool gmaes there as wlel as some new relases form larger publishers. I will keep you guys posted on the progress. I wish you all the best and look forward to seeing more comments from you.
Sincerely,

K.L. Phair
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PAS
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Posted: 29th Jan 2007 06:07
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I apologize for the typos. Its late.

K.L. Phair
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Benjamin A
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Posted: 29th Jan 2007 09:40 Edited at: 29th Jan 2007 09:40
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Quote: "I am a distributor of games and not a publisher, meaning that I distribute games regularly for a living. I also do manufacturing of games, albums etc. mainly on an independent level in the States. I have never had a complaint against me anywhere. I am also a verified PayPal member and am getting EGameStudio.Com as a verified site as we speak."


Quote: "All I can say is that I am sorry you got ripped off, it can happen, however I distribute different independent titles here and there, and I have been a retailer for selling games for a while. I get the games at wholesale price and sell them a little below MSRP, but as I said before, EGameStudio is really a site intended for independent distribution. I will not say I am a game publisher except for those games that I have designed myself. "


Sorry, but once again I'm not taking your word for it. If this is true.....back it up with evidence.

Quote: "I will not say I am a game publisher except for those games that I have designed myself. I learned about FPSC just a few months ago and this will be the first time using a program like it to sell games commercially. I do have experience has I have worked in the gaming industry for a few years which is not long compared to others"


Once again.... show us some of your work and where you have worked to convince us.

Quote: "The real reason why I bought FPSC was because of the community here. I have never before seen any one product receive so much support and add on form different sources."


Quote: "The only program I have seen like this that even offer add ons is Torque. However FPSC has a lot more contributions then Torque. "


Statements like these make me doubt your experience.... a lot. Compared to most others 'lower budget' engines, FPSC has very little support. I wish FPSC would have the same 3rd party support and contributions as Torque has.

Quote: "Thank you for your post as well and be sure to check back when the website is complete. There are going to be some really cool gmaes there as wlel as some new relases form larger publishers. "


We will do that, but I would have waited with posting here until the website is complete. I'll keep an eye out to see how and if this is going anywhere. Good luck with it!

Let me get one thing straight..... Basically, you're planning on distributing (aka selling) the games through your website and perhaps in a later stage sell them in stores. Since that is the idea, I must agree with the_winch.... If you want to draw customers to the website, you're going to need something much better then waht you have now to stand out in the crowd. You're not the only one trying to sell games throught a website and we all know customers have the habit of only buying through 'trusted' websites. If you want to pull of something like this, you almost need to be an established household name and once again you need to be having the appearance of being trustwhorthy.....

If we as game designer aren't convinced at all by this, how do you plan on convincing those who should buy the stuff you're offering.

It's all about having credibility, you have lot's to say, but lack credibility completely. You have to show us much more then empty words and some slapped together websites. As someone who claims to be proffesional, you sure act very un-proffesional. what you present to us, doesn't back up any of the claims you're making.

Your website doesn't refect all the experience & degrees you claim to have or are working on. From someone having a degree in 3D Animation and Visual Effects, being a Academy of Art University student and having experience in the gaming industry for a few years, I would have expected something else.

From your own claims, I would expect:

[A] A much more proffesional approach.
[B] A stunning website (not something everyone can put together, even my 12 yrs old daughter). That is appealing with animation and visual effects.
[C] Original artwork and not just 'ripped' gxf.
[D] A website that appeals to gamers and camge creators a like.
[E] As someone having experience in the gaming industry for a few years, you should have know that the 'working' in the gaming industry don't just believe words.....

Well I'm still keeping my eyes on this to see what will develop, but for someone claiming to be so experienced as you are, you've approached all of this in a very in-experienced manner, which makes it all hard to believe for me, as someone not even having half the experience and degrees you do have...... But at least I can back up my little experience as game designer with a good number of websites that aren't affiliated to me at all. So I do expect at least the same from someone who claims to be games distributor having worked with major and small time publishers and having manufactured games & albums also.

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
GameFun4U, the ultimate funtainment. Cool Games and Resources for your own games.
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Van B
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Posted: 29th Jan 2007 10:12
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I'm not sure that selling, or hoping to sell an FPSC is a realistic idea.

I mean I can appreciate the work that goes in, but really consider what games people are willing to pay for - would you yourself pay for a FPSC game?. Before anyone get's their hopes up, they should really get as much feedback as possible, basically when someone else suggests you sell your game, then it might be worth looking into. Developers can have quality blindness, get a really bitchy relative to play your game, they'll be more honest than anyone.

Not trying to say that FPSC=low quality, or unsellable, I'm saying people should view their FPSC work as a showcase of their design skills, game design practice, media creation and implimentation practice, maybe even as a showcase to help forge a career in level design. I think that if you use FPSC with a view to selling your games and making money, then basically your gonna end up disappointed. It's the same for most indi developers, things are rough all-over.

''Stick that in your text and scroll it!.''
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Silvester
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Posted: 29th Jan 2007 10:25
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Quote: "@ Prince Of Darkness: The Multi Map looks good. It is better to take your time and have a quality product then to rush it and have problems. You have a good idea with this product and when it is released, I am sure it will be popular. "


Uhm,actualy...more people downloaded it(about 98,last weeks reading) then reply'd...(About 4)

FPSC can be a good quality,look at some projects people make.most people dont put enough effort in or just think they can do everything.But designing a single level takes more then just 1 hour.it takes 3-9 days with me to get a rather good mapping result with all bugs out and on a right speed.Thats why people think FPSC is crap.all the newcomers throw crap together and call it a game.(A 10*10 segment room with 4 entity's!,and the story is,well...i havent thought of it yet...Screenshots will come later!EDIT:LOLZ!!!I ATTACHED ONE!)

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FredP
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Posted: 29th Jan 2007 10:42
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There are a few games being made with FPSC that I would/will buy...
The one Locrian's making comes to mind.Probably Commander Josh 2 when Ben gets ready to sell it.Reality Forgotton and Butter fingers have some good looking stuff that they are making as well as Wetham...whether they will be selling the stuff or giving it away remains to be seen.
But I wouldn't buy most of the games made in FPSC.Some are fun to play and others are just bad but the bottom line is that it takes a long time to make a great game and FPSC hasn't been out that long.
Of course for every great game there are going to be a hundred that are not great.
When my game is finished I am going to give it away for free.Not that it won't be worth buying...I just don't want to deal with the headache of having to sell it and all of the crap that goes with that.
And I figure nobody is going to steal or pirate a game that is free?What would be the point?
If you want to sell your game(s) the best advice would be to do the same thing you should if you were buying one.Check out all your options,read the fine print and use your common sense.

http://www.wembley1967.com
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PAS
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Posted: 29th Jan 2007 15:40
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@ Benjamin A: Well as I said, anyone is entitled to their opinion, and thats OK. As far as attracting sellers, well as I said, games will be sold there whether anyone here wants to use that esource. You do not need fancy media to have people buy things from your site and major publishers who saw my site thought it was good enough to have their games sold there. FYI-the images weren't ripped and I owe the people a lot of credit who created the concepts and layout of them. Even the fonts on my other two websites are unique, copyrighted font styles provided by the authors of them. You do not need flash and fancy media to have it ook good. I have designed websites like that and all it did was bug users who did not have fast connections and the media took so long to load on their outdated computers that they just get frustrated. It is kind of like when people said the new upgrade didn't work on their computers because they were not "super computers." Not everyone has up to date prcessors or high speed Internet and websites with loaded media take up more bandwidth and take longer to load.

@ Prince Of Darkness: I have to agree with you. FPSC is what you put into it, is what you get out of it. I have seen "commercial" game engines that made some of the dumbest games. Then I have seen 2D game editors that do not even compare to the graphics and potential that FPSC has and thy are selling like crazy. Do I think FPSC has the greatest graphics compared to every game out there, No, but it is a lot better then other stuff out there. With the ease and support you have with the program, you could make a really good game and sell it. But once again everyone has their opinion. When I first started a website that I said was going to be full of free content, no selling products or anything people thought I was crazy. I started that in December and I am making money form advertising. I am sure that when TGC started the concept of FPSC, who would of known that Magic FPS, Signs, all these game packs and so many people would be interested in it. There are so many game editors out there that aren't half as good as FPSC, even 2D game engines, and people sell their stuff, even for pocket games. I would buy a game if it worked well and had a good interface to it, because I do it all the time.

@ FredP: You direct the message a lot better then me. :o)

To everyone else: As I said in my first post, this concept was intended as a contribution. I expected a lot of bad critiquing before I even started. I did not do this because I thought I was going to have people saying, "wow that's great." I did it because I knew there were a few people that would be interested if any. It gives people an option, and whether they use that option or not, its the point that they do have an option, which is better then no option. All I want to say is this. I respect everyones opinion, and I do not take their opinions good or bad, personally. I am sure the website could have been better, and it could have been worse. The point is, I actually put work into trying to do something and just like FPSC, I am going to continue to improve this site as I go along and it will come out better then planned. Keep your eyes on the site if you choose to or forget about it altogether. Its not gonna change that people are interested and want to use this service. All it means is that you don't want to utilize it. I can respect Benjamin A a lot for one reason, that even if he doesn't really think its the greatest or will even work, he at least is gonna wait and see what will develop.

I thank everyone for their post, because every post is a good post regardless of what it says. So I thank you all, and I hope this thread helps a lot of people. I think it will propel a lot of thinking for people to re-evaluate their games and look at FPSC differently. Remember, if you want a good game, you need to take the time to build a good one. I heard this saying, "If you would not buy it then do not expct other people to." Anyone who is told they cannot make a good game with FPSC or any other program, then think about this. "Mountains were made to be viewed by some and climbed by others. Are you a viewer or a climber?"

K.L. Phair
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Slayer_2
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Posted: 30th Jan 2007 20:33
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I'm not trying to hi-jack this thread but couldn't you just use cafepress to sell your stuff? It's very flexible and I'm using it. It also seems very trustworthy and it has lots of great features.
Slayer_2

Elite OPS Terrorstrike a modern shooter check it out below

http://eliteops.piczo.com/?cr=6&rfm=y
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PAS
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Posted: 30th Jan 2007 23:25
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@ Slayer-2: That is some good input. You're not hi-jacking the thread. Anyone else know any other places to sell your games? I know places like Amazon.Com etc. but they have requirements and take a higher fee. Could you tell people how to sign up for Cafe Press and do it since you already use that resource? I have seen it but never used it, so I wouldn't know. But thanks for the info, as I am sure people could use that option too. Are you using anything else besides Cafe Press that people can use?

For everyone else: Use this thread to list places you know that other people could sell their games through. This thread is about selling FPSC games. Anything about that would greatly contribute to this thread. Thanks.

K.L. Phair
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Candle_
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Posted: 30th Jan 2007 23:59
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Ummmmmm.
Quote: " Domain Name: EGAMESTUDIO.COM
Registrar: THE NAME IT CORPORATION DBA NAMESERVICES.NET
Whois Server: whois.aitdomains.com
Referral URL: http://www.aitdomains.com
Name Server: NS1.DSR4HOSTING.COM
Name Server: NS2.DSR4HOSTING.COM
Status: ok
Updated Date: 18-jan-2007
Creation Date: 18-jan-2007
Expiration Date: 18-jan-2008"



MY FPSC FILES
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PAS
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Posted: 31st Jan 2007 15:05
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A Notice For Everyone: Wow, now these posts have become amusing to plain out, it seems like evryone here is trying to just believe what they want. Candle went as far as to check who reigstered the domain name. Well Candle, here are other domain names I have, InfoCorp.Org, PHairArtStudio.Com, MarketPodcast.Org, EGameCast.Org, not any are registered by me and not all are registed by the same people. Please from now on no one ask me to sell their games through emails, because that way, I won't indirectly be accused of trying to rip people off. I will sell the titles I have already and will not bug anyone in any of these forums about selling a FPSC made game ever. So anyone can believe what they want, I honestly do not care and I am not going to watse any more of my time. For anyone who wants to sell a game and try to make a commercial product out of FPSC, it can be done and do not let anyone discourage you. The key to selling any product, is to prepare a product that is consumer worthy. I wish everyone the best, and Prince Of Darkness, you have a great product and I wish you the best with it. I wish everyone the best with their games and all of their endeavors.

K.L. Phair
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Benjamin A
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Posted: 31st Jan 2007 15:22 Edited at: 31st Jan 2007 15:24
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Quote: "For anyone who wants to sell a game and try to make a commercial product out of FPSC, it can be done and do not let anyone discourage you."


We know and some of us have already done so..... I even managed to get a good deal with a real publisher and distributor who can back up his claims

We do NOT doubt that commercial titles can be made with FPSC, we do doubt people who claim a lot and can't back it up, then change their attitude and run off. This whole thread isn't about creating commercial games, it's all about if you are trustworthy enough to get our work and sell it on out behalf. But it seems like you don't want to do the effort to gain our trust and that's to bad.

This could be a great endeavour for all of us, but your sudden attitude change and persistant unwillingness to back up your claims, makes me encourage everyone to not give their hard work to you..... for now. Until you can really gain our trust and trust isn't gained by lots of words and running off when asked to out your money where your mouth is.

For someone who claims to be a proffesional, you sure act very unproffesional. Anyway I wish you all the luck and still keep an eye out on how things will develop!

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
GameFun4U, the ultimate funtainment. Cool Games and Resources for your own games.
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Silvester
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Posted: 31st Jan 2007 15:46
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It might be me,but i stick to PAS.As i dont see why he is so bad as everyone says he is.As soon as MultiMap V1.3 works ill get in touch with you PAS.

-Prince Of Darkness
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Van B
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Posted: 31st Jan 2007 15:57
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Finding a publisher for indi games is damn easy, making money from an indi game is damn difficult. Really, there's hundreds of publishers around the world who do not care enough about quality, so would take on FPSC titles. I'm not saying that high quality games can't be made with FPSC, I'm saying that a publisher who would not have a problem with the standard visuals is probably not worth bothering with.

It might be everyones dream to have a game published, but at the end of the day it's not really published with these guys, your never gonna see your game in a box on a shelf anywhere - it'd be available to buy online, like a gazillion other titles that make frig-all money. I know a lot of people who spent a lot of time and effort making their games, then saw them yield practically no money. It's so freakin depressing I don't know why I'm re-iterating this. I really have no idea how a FPSC game could ever become a money-maker, in that the time spent on it would be rewarded financially.

Who's to say what FPSC is capable of, I'm going by the general standard of FPSC games in comparison to the instances of people publishing their game. IMO for a FPSC game to get anywhere, it'd need amazing media and a great design concept - really you'd need to be encroaching on the quality the HL and Quake mod community produce. If you found a cool looking FPS for a £5 you might just buy it on a whim to see what it's like, but even then it would have to look the part. Vital to have nice animated arms and a nicely drawn HUD. This is beyond most FPSC users, some projects look amazing, and may make a little money, but it's never justification for the time spent.

Rant almost over.

You can't get FPSC, drag and drop a game together, then expect people to buy it - really you'd be lucky if people DOWNLOADED it! - it might be a free download, but so is so much these days. Really I think that the future is bright for FPSC, but not right now, it's not mature enough for commercial projects yet.
I suggest that people push themselves to learn as much of FPSC as humanely possible, recruit creative friends to help, brainstorm good plot ideas, and take the time to appreciate all that goes into game production - then by the time FPSC is a scary-gorgeous commercial quality game engine you'll be ready too. I seriously think X10 will take FPSC and boot it into a whole different league before very long.

''Stick that in your text and scroll it!.''
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PAS
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Posted: 31st Jan 2007 16:04
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@ Benjamin A: Once again, I am not making sales pitches and I have nothing to prove to anyone, and I do not find it worth trying to prove myself to anyone. As i said, believe what you want. I am not running off, I am just saying that if everyone thinks I am trying to rip them off, then that is fine, I wont sell anyones game from here. I have games that I am selling and tommorow they will be displayed on the, yes the website with "ripped" graphics from the "unprofessional" that you say I seem to be. Honestly, I could care less what anyone in here thinks, because I tried helping this community, tried giving some support, and I see that was a mistake. I am not running off, I am just letting people know that it can be done and I could care less if they sell their games through me anymore. I make a lot of products and do not need to sell myself to anyone. I have always been the type of person with all of my clients, if you want to reach this goal and have my help, then that is fine. If not that is OK too. I ddi nto ae a slaes pitch to them, so I will nto start now. Anyone who sells their product through me will see that I am able to back up my claims, but I do not need to continue to post in this forum for anyone to accomplish that. I am way to busy and have a company to run and clients who need me to be working on their projects instead of trying to defend myself in here. I have nothing to hide therefore nothing to defend. As I said, do not sell your games through me. If you think a kid can build a more professional setting and I am so unprofessional, then why does it matter to you if you think I am running away or not. I am not going to try to convince anyone to sell their games, because this is not a sales pitch. I have better things to do then to read and reply to posts saying how I am a fraud and all. Are you sure the other people ran away, or did you run them off because they felt like they were wasting their time? Even though you yourself have said your opinion, I have always said I can respect that and I do not take it to heart. I have been sent emails about these comments and said I understand you guys have been ripped off so no biggie. I understand you guys are mad because some scam artist lied and cheated you out of your hard work. Well, believe it or not, everyone is not like that. I do not see why you think I would do that, when I have all of the FPSC products, and I have multiple animation software to build my own things. I applaud you for finding a distributor. Share it with people so they can have someone distirbute their games. I have legal binding contracts, and other then that, I do not know what else you want me to do to prove I am going to rip someone off. Honestly and no negativity intended, but as it was said before, there are only a few games out there that are buyable that are made with FPSC and not because FPSC is a bad program, but because not everyone takes the effort to make a good game. So you can say I am running away, but I say I do not need to prove anything to anyone and if the majority of people here who have posted think I am trying to rip them off, then what does it matter to them if they can sell their game through the website or not? If you think I am a fraud too, then I would have thought you would be happy about this. I mean, now you don't have to worry about anyone writing a post about how unprofessioanl I am. Beleive what you want. It doesn't matter to me because I know I am not a fraud and I have better things to do then to lie to anyone, including myself. I hope you sell a lot of games and I am happy for you. I am not mad at anyone, but honeslty it seems as if you guys are so built up with anger from past experiences, that even is a major publisher contacted you and said they wanted to sell your game, that you would not believe that. I will say as I said in a email, if nayone who is sleling theior game wants some free publicity and a review done, then I will be more then happy to do that. I just don't see why I should sell games for people who think I am a fraud, have no confidence in me or think I am unprofessional. So I wish everyone the best with their games.

K.L. Phair
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PAS
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Posted: 31st Jan 2007 16:12
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Thanks Prince Of Darkness. I really appreciate the support.
@ Van B: I like your point about doing reserach and making a ogod plot idea. This is so true.

For everyone: I learned about FPSC in December of last year. I have been working on a gmae since 2004, and due to the urgrades of software I had to update the tehcnology of the game. I was hoping to be ready by this spring. I may have to push back the release date again. Update your games with the tehcnology. That way, when your game does come out, its a product that has real effort into it. I dont think any professioanl game is made in just a few days. Take your time with it. Games are to be made by people who enjoy making them. I myself do not do this to make money, I do it because I enjoy it. If you do what you enjoy, then the money will follow, because you made a product of quality. There is nothing quality about rushing anything.

K.L. Phair
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Silvester
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Posted: 31st Jan 2007 16:28
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No need to thank,I think this is a great idea.

Who cares about money?I dont care alot about money.The only reason i sell stuff is to keep my Domain up and running.If i want to make money.i'd better find a job in a local store then selling a game i made.Money is great.but even with all the money in the world.you wouldn't be happy.as theres nothing to dream of anymore...It are my dreams that keep me going on most things.The dreams of getting stuff...

People shouldn't care so much about money...Indie gaming wont make you rich indeed.but that is not my goal anyway.I do this for fun.and Fun goes above all.

-Prince Of Darkness
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Benjamin A
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Posted: 31st Jan 2007 16:42
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I agree Prince, it's all about fun.... But having said that there are many publishers making good money from indie games, giving the indie developer hardly anything from what they make. As Van B stated getting published isn't the problem, it's the making / getting your money part which is hard. I'm not planning on getting rich, but I don't mind either. BUT if I do give a publisher my game and he makes money from it, then I like to have my fair share and way to often that doens't happen. That's a shame, since it has given the impression that you can't make money from indie games. You can you just need to be careful who you allow to distribute your games. A lot of publishers are just sharks, feeding on other peoples work.

I've made good money from my games and I've known others to make money from my game, but not paying me at all. I'm not angry at anyone, it just made me more careful in who trust with my games. Sorry, to say so but PAS excactly shows the same patterns as the publishers who still owe me money..... now he may be completely honest and what he does, but for now I do have my doubts and he can take them away, but doesn't want to do so, so I'll have to stay in doubt. That's a shame.

Creating games isn't my main occupation, I do it for 'pocket' money, while having fun do it so.

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
GameFun4U, the ultimate funtainment. Cool Games and Resources for your own games.
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Silvester
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Posted: 31st Jan 2007 17:33
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I see your point.however i cant afford the time to ditribute everything myself.And as this offer is here(With a reasonable 14%),Ill take it if i can.

I'm not trying to protect him,but we should atleast give him a chance.If MultiMap is finished we'll see what happens.

-Prince Of Darkness
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PAS
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Posted: 31st Jan 2007 20:19
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@ Prince of Darkness: Yea I will be more then happy to slel your product.

@ Benjamin A: I understand your view. I am sure a lot of people do not do this for a living, but I do. I am self employed and take this seriously. I have been ripped off myself, then I sold one of my own products through a store chain who just did not care about my product, making it seme like it was a charity cause, which are the reasons why I started doing this myself. Even if you do get it in a store, its hard to get them to publicize it and not have your product get lost amongs all the others. I just got an email form someone (not naming names cause they can say who they are if they want to), and me and this person are going to work try to work out a deal. I sitll have ot email them back. They also made their game in FPSC. So, if we strike a deal and I sell the games form them on the website, then after they get paid, etc. I will ask them for a testimonial later after some time has gone by, and that cna be your proof, if you choose to accept it. I will keep everyone posted if there is an agreement so they cna know to look for a FPSC made game on the website. Hopefully we will know by next week. :o)

K.L. Phair
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Benjamin A
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Posted: 31st Jan 2007 20:43
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Sounds good! Looking forward to seeing some results that will give you and me a base to work on in the (near) future

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
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PAS
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Posted: 31st Jan 2007 20:47
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Yea, and this will show the users of FSC that it is possible ot slel games worldwide. This persons portfolio is amazing for any game developer. Looking at the quality, I would not know it was FPSC if I didnt know what FPSC was. So this is definitely exciting. So, this will be interesting.

K.L. Phair
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Duke Blue Devils
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Posted: 31st Jan 2007 23:39
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Wow! Everyone needs to just take a step back for a second. There's no need to tear PAS apart because you think he is, for lack of a better term, a "scam artist". First of all no one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to sell your games with him. On the contrary. He has simply stated what he wants to do and how he is going to go about doing it. That's all. No one said you have to believe him or that you have to trust him. I suggest you all wait and see what happens and them be the judge. Even if he is indeed a scam artist (I'm not saying I believe he is) I'm sure we'll find out soon enough. So everyone stop complaining. Here's my simple advice if you don't feel comfortable doing business with him then don't. No one is forcing you to do anything so just relax. Who knows, this may turn out to be a success.

-Duke


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Matt Rock
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Posted: 1st Feb 2007 00:32 Edited at: 1st Feb 2007 00:33
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Do you have a merchant account with a bank? If not, how are you going to accept payments? If it's paypal, doesn't it seem wasteful for someone to pay you (n)% of a game's gross just to act as a go-between for game sales? I mean, if you have a merchant account, awesome then, more power to you... but how exactly did you acquire one? How did you build up the capital to do that? And if you don't have one, why should I let you profit (even remotely) from my hard work?

Quote: "I'm not sure that selling, or hoping to sell an FPSC is a realistic idea."

I'd have to disagree, but agree at the same time. If someone is using base models, or even the models they bought from one or more model packs, I can't see them selling their game and turning a profit. To profit from an FPSC game, I think you'd have to incorporate original assets, made from scratch. You might even need to alter the source. I *just* got FPSC on Monday, so I only have three days of experience with the software. But still, I can see some profitable promise from FPSC. With original FMV segments, highly-detailed textures, re-animated and designed models, new music/ foley, and a re-vamped engine, you could make some serious stuff with FPSC.


"In an interstellar burst, I'm back to save the universe"
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Candle_
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Posted: 1st Feb 2007 00:52 Edited at: 1st Feb 2007 00:55
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CafePress Audio & Data
Sell professional quality Audio and Data CDs

Design your CD
We offer full-color direct printing on all CDs (no sticky labels here!).

Choose and Design Your Packaging
Choose from simple paper sleeves to retail ready jewel cases with full-color inserts and tray cards.

Add Your Content
Specify your track listing and mail us a master CD with your content. Once we receive your content, we'll create sample audio streams so your customers can listen before they buy. Coming soon: Upload MP3s.

Perfect for: Music, Audio Presentations, Broadcast Content and more!

Tell us about your CD
Who better than you to generate excitement for your CD and help your customers make a buying decision? By tagging your CD, you'll ensure its searchability in the Marketplace. Do this by adding keywords that describe both your CD's content as well as your cover art.

Make Money
You set your own retail price over the CafePress.com base price and keep the difference. CafePress.com Audio base prices are:
Type of CD Base Price
CD with Paper Sleeve $4.99
CD with Jewel Case and Inserts $8.99

http://www.cafepress.com/cp/info/sell/products/audio

You send them a master with your game on it and they press it.
I use them for the kids web browse


MY FPSC FILES
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PAS
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Posted: 1st Feb 2007 04:39
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@ Matt Rock: Well Yes I do have a merchant account. As far as accepting payments for this, well I do have a PayPal Premiere account that is connected to my businesses bank account. A Premier or Pro account I think its called, is a virtual terminal that you use with PayPal. PayPal has different versions from being personal to different business options. Getting a merchant account is not hard and if you are wanting to get one I could tell you how to easily get one. If that is the case then feel free to email me and I will give you a step by step, but it does involve some steps. As far as me profiting, well the fees are next to nothing. The highest fee is 25% and that is if I create the packaging for you, such as DVD box, (thats the packaging we use), Disc, printing etc. I do this normally so it does not cost as much because I buy the supplies in bulk, but yea the reason people would pay me the small fees would be because I present your project in a professional manner. Feel free to visit the website and view the benefits, then you will see why I take a small fee. As far as ripping the engine apart, you might as well create your own engine or use a different game engine. You do not need to rip it to sell games. I am talking with someone who is currently selling more then one title in different parts of the world through retailers all done with the original FPSC. If you're gonna do all that, then you might as well buy DB Pro for $99 through TGC and go from scratch because it is going to be almost the same thing. But hey, maybe you cna modify it. Whatever works for you. Maybe you can make a super version of FPSC or figure out the bugs. As far as adding original content I agree. You can make your own .x objects and put in original content with the different FPSC add ons to make it fit FPSC easier. As far as being a go between, ummm.....well.....I have to disagree. If that saying, "Build it and they will come," was true, then we could all build websites and sell our games ourselves. I am puting alot more work then being a go between. I am developing a system that will make selling games easier and give the seller more control. For that I have to thank Benjamin A and the otther critiquing . After seeing the critiquing , I thought, "OK, how can I really make this site unique," which brings me to an announcement.

For everyone: I have recieved a lot of critiquing over the design, but I have decided this will not be the final version of the website. After the website is up and running and we have everything going good and we are satisfied with the results of our marketing efforts, we will be adding and redesigning EGameStudio.Com. We will be using a friendlier content database table, we will have features such as registered sellers being able to log in and manage their own accounts and products, as well as upload their own screen shots and other related work including editing their games listing. The interface we are workign on now will be much better. We have over 60 titles from major publishers wanting their game sold through us. That does not count the requests we have for other platforms including XBox 360, Playstation 3 and Nintendo Wii and DS. We are sticking with computer games for now, because we want to see how that goes and that was the original plan. If all goes well we may sell other game platforms, but that is yet to be determined, but we are selling some new PC titles and they are below prices you would find at a retailer. This site was originally developed for selling independent games. Despite the interest, we do not want to lose focus of that. Due to the portfolio I saw today, it showed me that FPSC can be sold commercially worldwide. I saw the evidence for myself which is why I am beyond excited and hoping to hear a reply quickly. The sooner I can get a deal, the sooner everyone will see the true potential from this persons example due to their hard work and vision. But for anyoen who wants to know, yes the store will change to a better platform no later then April we anticipate. I am hoping for March, but I guarantee no later then April. So do not be disappointed with the features when the store is up. This will not be pernament and as I said, we are going to add a feature so each person can edit their own games etc. The layout will be greatly improved in the near future, so bear with me please. I should have the first phase done by sometime tommorow where we will list the games we have to sell. Within the next two weeks or so I should know about when exactly the site will be redesigned by. By that time too hopefully we will have a deal with a FPSC gamer, and then all of you will see that I am not here to scam you. By then, phase 2 will be up, and then we have the store improved, re-designed etc. and we are all happy.

@ Candle: That is good info. Its kind of expensive and you might not profit much but then again its all profit as nothing comes out of your own pocket. Kind of what I am doing except they take more. I have bought some shirts from them...I think that was them..if it is they have good quality. Thanks for the input.

K.L. Phair
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Matt Rock
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Posted: 1st Feb 2007 04:47 Edited at: 1st Feb 2007 05:08
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Cafepress offers a somewhat decent service, depending on what you're selling. I've been using them on my personal website for a long, long time now, for t-shirts and stuff. But you're much better off just releasing the game yourself on your own personal website than handing it off to a publisher. It's my understanding that indie games sell better via download than through shipping the product to the customer, but maybe I'm wrong about that. anyway, back on topic, publishers for indie games are literally a dime a dozen (figure is based on most publishers' net worths, lol). When you sell the game yourself, you can fully control the software's pricepoint, you can have accurate and trustworthy sales figures and flow data, you can offer your customers technical support and get to know them on a personal level... oh, and you aren't sharing your profits with another party. Personally, I prefer knowing every minute detail of my company's performance, especially in the sales world. I like to know our cashflow status at all times, without needed to rely on a third party to provide that information to me. And after several commercial projects in DB with small local businesses, developing cheap training apps for their employees or simple trivia games for websites, I've definitely learned a few things about handling money, and in all of that time the one thing I've consistently worked out is that it's better to handle my own sales and tech stuff rather than worry about the honesty and sincerity of some other company. Cafe Press is a trustworthy company, in my experience anyway, but indie publishers are useless to me, so far as I've seen. They offer promises of exposure, but that's pretty silly when most of them have dozens, sometimes even hundreds of games to choose from... before signing with an indie publisher, ask yourself honestly "how well is my game going to stand out in a crowd?"

Anyway, that's just my opinion. I'm not trying to tell anyone to avoid using this person's service, but I'm definitely trying to warn you all to look before you leap

EDIT: About merchant accounts. A few months ago this topic came up elsewhere on the forums, and everyone told me it would be extremely expensive to try and open my own merchant account. I investigated that issue myself, contacting about nine banks in my area. Of them, seven returned my calls, and of those the average costs were... well, let's just say you could buy a used car for the same price of most of them. And this brings me to another question... if you have a merchant account, why are you using paypal?

There seems to be this stigma surrounding websites, that it's too difficult, that it costs hundreds of dollars a month to operate. It kept me from developing a professional website for MISoft Studios until a few months ago. At aplus.net, I got two free domain names (misoftstudios.com and misoftgames.com) with pretty good service for only $5.95 per month for the first three months, and $9.95 per month after that. I used Nvu to build the site, which is free and has almost all of the capabilities of Dreamweaver. The logos were made using The Gimp (also free). For the artwork (which I did myself, and I'm a terrible artist) I used Texture Maker, available for sale here at TGC. Total time spent making the website prior to launch: 3 hours. It's NOT hard to make your own website, it's NOT hard to sell your own software, and I'm speaking from my own personal experiences. Plus, we're in the process right now of creating a TGC Webring, which can help boost your sales as much as an indie publisher can, and it won't cost you a single cent to join the webring, either (no joining fees, no percentage of your profits, no cost whatsoever). The moral of my post is, if you're capable of making a game that can turn out sales, then you're capable of handling those sales yourself


"In an interstellar burst, I'm back to save the universe"
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Benjamin A
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Posted: 1st Feb 2007 09:33
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PAS, I'm glad to see this new approach. Also I'm curious to see which FPSC game impressed you so much, we have to wait and see. It's good to see that you've decided to stick around and are trying to win us over, so who knows what will develop in the future.

Quote: "Due to the portfolio I saw today, it showed me that FPSC can be sold commercially worldwide"


That's a sure thing and one of my FPSC title is already with a publisher ( http://www.manifestogames.com/node/2424 ) and I'm negotiating with another publisher to release it in various stores around the world.

Quote: "They offer promises of exposure, but that's pretty silly when most of them have dozens, sometimes even hundreds of games to choose from... before signing with an indie publisher, ask yourself honestly "how well is my game going to stand out in a crowd?""


Yes and no.... that's the problem. You can create a good game and have stand out in the crowd and no publishers wants it. That's what's happening to Commander Josh at the moment. About every who plays it loves it, it's fun to play and very original. At the same time that's it's weakness. While it's fun to play, attractive and original, I've got a good number of publishers interested, but they all demand the same thing..... change the game and take out the unique factor and make it like all the other fps games, big guns and many people running around that can be killed.

I can sell the game in no time to a good number of publishers and all I have to do is change the weapons used and change the enemies into terrorists. That means the game isn't standing out in the crowd anymore, but publishers will pay upfront for publishing it.

Do I want that? No, I don't. I want games that are unique, fun, different. Do most publishers want that? No, they want games just like the rest, they're stuck in their way of thinking, they're not breaking out of the mold, they don't take any risks. That is unfortunate.

As a matter of fact, a lot of publishers don't even want fps games at all, they're only looking for casual games. Just after Commander Josh, I designed DragonMania, it's a platform game. I have no problem finding distributors and publishers for it. Is it better then Commander Josh? Not really. It's just what publishers want to publish.

Quote: "but indie publishers are useless to me, so far as I've seen."


Not always, some of them are good and even do pay. At times it's better to make upfront payment deals with them. They pay you one time for the game. This often works better then the royalty payments, the thing is a lot of indie publishers do loose track of their games or are being scammed themselves. I've seen a number of them only work with clients that pay upfront for the games they deliver to them. The publisher in turn, pays the developer upfront. Everyone get's their money, minimum risks. The only downside to this is, that you need to design something appealing. Most fps games aren't considered appealing anymore.

I've attached the image for a reason.... I've been doing some artwork for a publisher (yes I even create my own dvd-boxes to go with the games), I've done that more often for him and pays well. The game doesn't perhaps stand-out in the crowd, but because of the way the box was designed it does sell. In fact the publisher is even more excited about the artwork for the box then about the game. Of course he likes the game, but he loves the box. That's what selling is all about, the first impression. Even if the game doesn't stand out in the crow, if the impression the buyer gets is appealing, he will still buy.

Selling games is complicated and there's a lot to it and a good game doesn't nessacarily, there's a lot more to it.

After all these years I've noticed one thing.... doing artwork for games pays better then creating the games themselves, one day I may switch, since both are fun doing, so I wouldn't mind.

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
GameFun4U, the ultimate funtainment. Cool Games and Resources for your own games.

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PAS
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Joined: 3rd Jan 2007
Location: Ann Arbor, MI. USA
Posted: 1st Feb 2007 15:36
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@ Benjamin A: Nice cover. Wow. How much do you charge? You know, I prefer DVD boxes. They are easier and more durable. Yea, I think you have a great game form the looks fo it. The designs look original. I think thats what makes it relaly stand out. I also think what makes your game stand out is the unique color coordination and lighting. You obviously put some hard work into it. I think from the looks of it, that publishers are trying to play it safe from what it sounds like. I think in the long run that can go against you, because games are like movies. You see a movie about a mutant alligator, next thing you know theres a bunch of movies just like that one. I think you are making the right decision by sticking to your original format. Unique means its more desirable because you cant find 50 other games like it. Once it is launched off the ground then its good. I was thinking about everyone thinking the site was just quickly put together and I did a test of the store, and I was like, OK, this is to simple. I need something more unique, user friendly as far as searching the store, better formatting etc. So I decided to keep what I have now and just announce that I will be redoing it with some very cool features that are being mapped out. The person who works with me on the website design, creation etc. has some good ideas and input that we are working to implement. I want this to be user friendly and I want to give the seller more control then just heres my game. I want them to have the ability to load their own pictures and description of their game. I was thinking about this when I was looking at Cafe Press. Its true, who better to describe your game then you. I think that by letting the designers load their own screen shots and description and set and adjust their own price, it will give them more control. Lets say a seller sets a price and decides they want a special, or two game pack, or whatever. They can log into their own account within the store and do this without having to send requests or wait for someone else on my end to do it. They can swap out screen shots, load new covers they want printed etc. So it will hopefully make them feel like they have more control over their game then just saying take my game and you do the rest. I want the sellers to have as much control as possible. I am even going to see if we can do a stat sheet so that when a seller logs into their EGameStudio.Com account, then they can see their sales for each one of their games as well as how many views people have made on each game so they can see the interest level. I am going to try to add as many features as possible and I am really pushing to have this done by March. The sooner the better. With the way we are designing the new store, its current design and layout along with many other sotres out there, will be obsolete.

For Everyone: What are some features that you look for in a store that would make your experience as a seller and a shopper easier? I would like to know so that I can try to develop the new store to fit these suggestions. I will try to make all of these features available, because I want a store that is user friendly and set up in a way that will be best for sellers and buyers. Feel free to email me or post your suggestions. Thanks.

K.L. Phair
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Candle_
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Posted: 1st Feb 2007 16:37
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1. I can think of is more then one way to buy the product.
Paypal is good but more is better.
Amazon Honor System is good to use .See mine here.
Kagi looks good for this too. Adventure Maker use's it.


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PAS
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Posted: 1st Feb 2007 17:03
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@ Candle: OK. I never knew Amazon.Com had anything like that. I was thinking about Googles new payment option, however, its not 100% compatible with everything for now. The only problem with this is that it only processes up to $50 per transaction. Also, according to the FAQ, a person can refund the money for up to 7 days. What if you send them the product, can they then refund the money? Since you use it do you know if there is any way to raise the limits?

K.L. Phair
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Slayer_2
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Posted: 1st Feb 2007 17:07
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I think everyone was being to hard on PAS. Cmon have a little trust. hey maybe I will even use his idea as well as cafepress here is a link to cafepress http://www.cafepress.com/cp/info/sell/makemoney/ Anyhow gtg
Slayer_2

Elite OPS Terrorstrike a modern shooter check it out below

http://eliteops.piczo.com/?cr=6&rfm=y
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Candle_
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Posted: 1st Feb 2007 17:39
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Not sure if you can change the amount but you can wait till the amount clears before shipping or download is release.


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PAS
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Posted: 1st Feb 2007 18:06
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@ Matt Rock: I didn't see your post about the merchant account until right now. Wasn't trying to ignore you. And yes you are right making a website is easy. The website I made honestly anyone can probably do and do it for very cheap. This is what I was thinking about when Benjamin A said the website was basic in so many words. For this reason this is why I ma going to make a website that offers more then the basics. The website people will visit now, they will say, big deal I could do that. I do not agree as I will tell everyone they can do that too. The website I ma gaining input for, I will tell you right now, it cannot be done for free. As far as merchant accounts, who are you trying to open a merchant account with? I use PayPal for two reasons, 1. EGameStudio.Com is not my businesses name 2. I do not have a business bank account that has a fictitious name EGameStudio registered to it. 3. There are leagalities to merchant accounts that are monitored, such as random or specific audits etc. You only want a merchant account for one main reason. If you are doing major volume. Due to batch fees and other fees as well as terminal fees, etc. opening a merchant account is not worth it if you are only doing small volume sales. However, you can look into PayPal for their pro business account services which includes a virtual terminal, but you have to do so many transactions and produce so much volume to qualify. That is the number one reason why EGameStudio.Com does not have a merchant account. I do not know how much volume it will produce, there is no transaction history associated with it, and honestly, most online businesses wait a bit before they open a merchant account to make sure that the profit margin will cover the costs of a merchant account. This is why people use PayPal, World Pay, Bill Pay etc. Because you can still use a resource to do transactions without having to worry about doing so much volume. Maybe in the future when EGameStudio.Com has produced a sales track record, a merchant account may be OK. As of right now, it would be premature to open one and hope the sales will come to cover the costs let alone every other headache that comes with a merchant account. Go to PayPals website, click on merchant services, go to the merchant account link and then they will help you. with the info you need by calling the 800 number. This link, http://cottlefish.com/design/merchant.htm ,will also explain why PayPal is a good option for starting out. I hope that helps you, but EGameStudio will not have a merchant account right now, because I am not paying for the fees and costs when I don't know my volume or have a sales track record to provide to the bank and include in the application. Also, I am not using a merchant account from one business for another one. I don't know if you knew this or not, but merchant accounts in the US are monitored by the IRS and FinCEN due to the US clearing system. I hope this information helps you. Good luck with your games, website and credit card processing.

K.L. Phair
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PAS
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Posted: 1st Feb 2007 18:09
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@ Candle: Is it accepted worldwide? I know that in some countries PayPal has its problems. Either way its a option I will look into.

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Matt Rock
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Posted: 1st Feb 2007 21:04
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I'm sorry for my skepticism, and please don't take it personally (not that you are, but I do have some critical comments coming up), but I've been a member of TGC for quite a while, long enough to see deals like this come along in the past, and I always have to ask: "if you're using Paypal, why sell it through you when I can sell it myself?" Again, there seems to be this appearance of web sales being daunting, but it isn't. I have a full team to worry about, and that team deserves a net percentage of the profits from our games. To distribute with a publisher would cut into the money my team-members earns per title, a lot more than our expenses would. Plus we already have a website up and running with around 95 individual IP's hitting it each week... not that impressive on the grand scheme of things, but it shows us that people are waiting on, or are at least interested in, the two games we've announced for release soon. I'm a (founding) member of the TGC webring, which is already increasing my traffic and thus increasing my exposure. And we're using Paypal for our transactions when we start selling games online. Besides Paypal's Virtual Terminal, which costs $20 per month, It seems as though my studio's website offers everything your services could offer to my team, and we won't need to pay anyone outside said team. And seeing as how none of this has been a bother, the website development and all of that, I'm curious as to why someone like me should accept this deal... what benefits are there? I'm not trying to say I'm a TGC vet or anything, I've only been here a little less than two years, but I can definitely say that I'm one of the people who has successfully turned a profit using TGC software to make applications, and so I definitely have a fair amount of experience marketing and whatnot. Maybe not as much as others, but enough that MISoft Studios has been in the black for a pretty long time. And with that handful of experience comes weariness of offers like this, because I've seen how easy it is to get going, and whenever I hit a wall, I have the fantastic support of the TGC community to help me answer questions and whatnot... I simply don't see the benefit of taking up an offer like this. Not that I would take this offer regardless (no offense), but I think you need to sell me (and others) on this, prove to me (and others) that this is legitimate, prove that you have experience in this field, prove that you're trustworthy. Again, I don't mean to sound harsh or anything, perhaps you have nothing but the best intentions, but I've seen things like this come up a number of times on TGC in the past, and I've heard horror stories from a number of people (I was one of the victims in the VDIUK scam, as some of you may recall). The TGC community is one that consistently asks for one thing: proof. We ask for proof because many of us have had our fair share of good, bad, and ugly experiences in the past, and so far this has raised several of the same flags that have been raised with other similar offers in the past. Again, I'm not trying to be rude or abusive in any way... I'm just looking out for fellow members of my favorite community .


"In an interstellar burst, I'm back to save the universe"
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PAS
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Posted: 1st Feb 2007 22:30
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@ Matt Rock: Nothing personal taken and I understand your standpoint as I have heard the horror stories and scams. The fees I take are only 25% tops, and thats if I create the packaging for the game too. For a standard PayPal account nearly 5% is taken out + 30 cents for US accounts. Worse case scenario. You sell a game for $15. It sells for standard packaging, so I take the highest fee of 25% which s like $3.75. That $3.75 covers the processing of the fees, which yes comes from PayPal. It also includes the DVD box for the game, the disc for the game and disc print work (and these are Sony quality not cheap Wal-Mart brands), cover for the DVD box with printing. Plus with any game you get a review, which is added onto a podcast I made, EGameCast.Org, which if theres video footage of your game that can also be added to the video cast there. Plus after ninety days of tracking your games sales, we can supply your game to a store supplier who buys in bulk. We would handle all of the manufacturing etc. I am not saying sell your game for $15 but thats an example. Now if that does not seem worth it then we can look at another option. Cafe Press takes at least nearly $5 according to the fees I saw, and you do not get half of that. Then theres Amazon.Com but they do not accept software through their advantage program. Or you could sell it yourself. Well, I made a website at the middle of December of last year, around that time. I registered it and it had a ranking on Alexa, of like 3,000,000 and something. It is now ranked 298,675 and receives an average of over 1,500 unique users a day. (Well it did before I got sidetracked and started lacking on my promotions.) That is not startling but is not bad for thirty days. We have tracking software and last month, over 3,000 people added us ot their favorites in about two weeks. If you feel you can get the traffic then by all means do it yourself. I am not telling anyone not to. I am working on a deal with a FPSC user now. When you see their game being sold and distributed, then you can ask them how you like the service. I am also re-designing the site and features unlike any way you can do with a website builder. So, work is going into this. It might not seem like much, but there is a lot of behind the scenes work in this process that I am doing. So just keep your eye on the site and the forum, and you will see for yourself that I am a man of my word. It will not matter if you can or cant build a website and it will not matter if you can or cannot get packaging for your game. This is a one stop solution catered for the person with no resources and no money, and someone who just has the FPSC game making software. I am trying to get this done as quickly as possible. Read through the previous posts. All the information is there. The current site will be redesigned, improved, and great for everyone to use. This site is new so results will not be magical, but it will catch on. I have a quick question too. If selling anything whether it be games, or whatever was so easy, then how come so many people are not doing it and would be interested in a site that is offering it? If selling your FPSC game was so easy to do yourself, then I would like to know who here has sold copies of their games whether electronically or through a good packaging system? Who has had no problems with selling their games? Who thinks selling your games is so easy that all you need to do is get a website builder and a free image editor, make your site and accpet payments and then your selling your games? Feel free to post the answers here, because I am curious. As I said, the saying, "Build it and they will come," is not neccessarily true. But I value your post and everyone is more then happy to to this same process themselves. I encourage it. Build a website for your game and have success. There are lots of places for cheap hosting, website builders and PayPal is free. I suggest it is better to pay for a year of website hosting so that your website does not disappear if you miss a payment. Anyone who is still interested in my offer, I am still redesigning so do not worry, I am working as quickly as possible. Thanks.

K.L. Phair
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PAS
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Posted: 1st Feb 2007 22:40
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@ Matt Rock: I read the scam you posted. Wow. Well i want to run a competition and I can supply a prize before hand and you can hold onto it. I was going wait until March but wanted to do it this month. Would you be willing to work with me on this if I send you the prize before hand before starting the competition? You seem to have a lot of contacts and you can hold onto the art work and on my websites I can just link to your website. So how does that sound? I can have the prize sent off immediately and we can work out the outlines of the competition. All I ask is that the prize is supplied by me on the competitions listings. Let me know if this is something you would like to do. I would be more then happy to do it. I will be back online and check the post tommorow morning. if you want I can email you my number and you can call me too if you want to work out the details that way. I am in EST too. Let me know when you have time. Thanks.

K.L. Phair
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