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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Cranox Mod (Old Dynamic Shadows Mod) - 56k Warning

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Dark Goblin
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Posted: 17th Jul 2009 02:09 Edited at: 19th Jul 2009 22:02
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Hey guys, its me again.
Some of you will maybe remember my mod I showed some months ago.
It was the Thread "Dynamic Shadows in FPSC x9".
Since the lock of the Thread I left the Mod on my hardrive and some days ago I thought about starting the work on it again.

So I added some more features and are now waiting for the new 1.15 Source Code with Map-Editor so that I can fix the biggest problem: "The Performance".

So to let you guys know that I started again and that I will give it out for free if its finished, I started a new thread.

Also I want no spamming or anything like that in this thread.

You will find a complete Feature-List at the bottom of this Thread, which will be updated if there is something new.

So here are some new Pics I created for all the people who do not know the Mod and some of the new features.


Showing the new, re-worked Flashlight with nice shadows


Showing shadows and parallax Mapping on Surfaces


Showing the new water in Cranox Mod


Showing DoF in Action


Just another shot showing the shadows


Another Flashlight shot

Name-Change:
I changed the Name of the Mod to start from beginning and don`t think about the old times when I started with it.
The Name has something to do with my new project (Non-FPSC) and I will not talk about it in this thread, so its just this name .


Feature-List:
- Bloom
- DoF
- LightRays(need some fix!)
- Motion Blur
- Surface Shader (Normal,Parallax,Relief)
- Dynamic Lightning
- Dynamic Soft Shadows
- Water (ReflectiveRefractive)
- Underwater-Effects
- Flashlight
- LoD-System(Simpel Object hiding [waiting for new Source for better one])
- ToD-System(Just SunMoon-Lightning, no Skybox as I had at the beginning-->Bugs)
- Shader-System-Vars
-->|EnableDisable Shader in Setup.ini
-->|Adjust Shader Settings with Scripts (to be added)
- Deactivate Shadows on Dynamic (Non-Immobile) Objects (Performance!)
- Up to 20 Lights on Screen

...to be continued

I want to give credit to "Evolved" for his awesome Deferred Shading System, because without this Mod would not be possible.

Also I got the Idea to release the Mod Open-Source so that you can work on it if it is released, but I need to think about that.

Hope you guys like what you see and maybe give me some more ideas which features I can add to the mod.

DG

... efxMod Developer!
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DarkFrost
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Posted: 17th Jul 2009 02:13 Edited at: 17th Jul 2009 02:22
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Yeah first comment! My god goblin you have done it again lol. You have helped us out big time with development of wizmod and now this! Ill be the first to download it BTW if you need a beta tester lemme know since I haven't been working on too many things now and have plenty of free time.

Feature ideas:
-weather effects
-player legs/arms as default starting weapon unless something else is chosen
-Depth of field
-airmod .6 intergration! The one main thing that'll make this mod way better.The game im developing now is in drastic need of ironsights plus i believe that every fps needs em as well as recoil. Hopefully you'll intergrate it since this mod will be free (and hopefully include the build game function) meaning people can build games with airmod in v1.15 for free
-motion blur+sharpen setting (since this seems to be a visual mod)
-some kind of scrollers such as in EFX mod if it isnt too much to ask for, to adjust settings such as bloom,motion blur,sharpen,flashlight on/off,shadows on off etc. Just to give the user an easier experience with the mod when it comes to testing out the features and getting the "perfect" ambience.

Anyways luck to you with this mod.

[img][/img]

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Kravenwolf
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Posted: 17th Jul 2009 02:27 Edited at: 17th Jul 2009 02:29
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Looks nice. Will normal maps finally be able to be applied on static objects and segments with their own spec maps, and react to static lighting? Will the light from the flashlight cast shadows from static entities, or will everything in the level have to be dynamic?


Kravenwolf

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Dark Goblin
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Posted: 17th Jul 2009 02:31
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In the Mod you do not have static lightning.
All Lights need to be dynamic because of the Renderer Evolved´s Deferred Shading uses.

Also you have the Shader on every object (static or dynamic) but only on static ones you can change between the 3 (Normal,Parallax,Relief).

Also the Flashlight casts shadows, as you see on the 2 pics in my first post.

... efxMod Developer!
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Black Profductions
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Posted: 17th Jul 2009 02:32
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Hey! great mod, just wow

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4125
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Posted: 17th Jul 2009 02:40
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I Love The New Water In This Mod....Can Make A More REal Sewer With That....Can You Change The Color Of It When The Mod Is Done?

Computer Specs: Intel Core 2 Duo E7400 2.80GHz @ 1066Mhz FSB 3MB Cache, Dual Channel 8192MB DDR2 PC6400 800MHz RAM, XFX Nvidia Geforce 9800 GTX+ 512MB, MSI P7N SLI-FI Motherboard - nForce 750i SLI
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Black Profductions
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Posted: 17th Jul 2009 02:41
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goblin, one question, can you give me your msn? i want to chat with you

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Dark Goblin
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Posted: 17th Jul 2009 02:42 Edited at: 17th Jul 2009 02:45
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sure you can adjust everything of the shader effects (like Water Color, Bloom Brightness, etc.)

@Cyclone:
Forgot to add Motion Blur to the list, the Mod has it.
For Airmod, thats not possible because it does not work perfectly in v1.15 which is the version I want to use later.
The Player thing (armslegs) are an option which I will maybe add to the mod.

EDIT:
@BF: My MSN is on this site, just below my posts!

... efxMod Developer!
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DarkFrost
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Posted: 17th Jul 2009 02:49 Edited at: 17th Jul 2009 06:27
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K cool, shame about airmod .6 tho....altough it seems to work fine in plysmod 1.09 for v1.15. W/e the visuals will make up for it big time.

[img][/img]

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Mr Bigglesworth
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Posted: 17th Jul 2009 08:19
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That looks so sweet! I can't think of any additions that haven't already been said, but I really like the dynamic shadows. A LoD system will make large outdoor scenes without slowdown a reality. Great work, can't wait for more screens.

Why remake a famous game when you could create your own?
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DarthBasicVader
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Posted: 17th Jul 2009 10:29
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Wonderful Dark Goblin!!! So you're releasing it only when the migration is done ? (it seemed to me reading the last newsletter that map editor source will be released after the migration thing).
I can't wait to try this modification .. and so if you want a beta tester you can count on me

Riccardo
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Rampage
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Posted: 17th Jul 2009 11:22
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Ah, good to see you working on this again Goblin.
Still looking good, as always.
Hope to see a release that I can play around with soon
Good luck with this.


Eidos!
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djmaster
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Posted: 17th Jul 2009 11:36
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The only thing that sucks here is the need for dynamic lights and FPSC does not support over 6 dynamic lights in one scene,making it quite useless.Unless you place one big dynamic lights and static ones to somehow combine everything together.

[href]http://chargedstudios.netne.net/index.htm[href]
"Im British you muppet!"-Psycho
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Rampage
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Posted: 17th Jul 2009 12:06
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@djmaster, he has completely re-written the lighting engine so that it does not run off DarkLIGHTS.
Its not the dynamic lighting that you are used to in fps creator


Eidos!
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Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 17th Jul 2009 13:00
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Awesome.

"You are not smart! You are very un-smart!"
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Dark Goblin
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Posted: 17th Jul 2009 13:23 Edited at: 17th Jul 2009 13:49
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@Rampage:
Well in some way he is right.
You can have 8 Lights at one time, because also the Deferred Shading Renderer can not render more than 8.

But if you place them right, its no big deal (Source Engine can only have 3 dynamic lights on one surface).
But sure you can have more than 8 Lights in a Level, there are just 8 of them renered at once!

But if the source is released, youre free to change the whole thing and if I get the Map-Editor Source, I can rewrite the Lightning code and give the Renderer the ability to render such 8 Lights with shadows and the other ones without, so that you have the Lightning!

... efxMod Developer!
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Roger Wilco
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Posted: 17th Jul 2009 13:26
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I can't begin to tell you how excited I was to see this back and kicking. It's like all hope for FPS Creator is revived in an instant when I see this. I might just be the biggest deffered shading fanboy there is.

Anyway, as I said, it's great to see this back, it'll definetly be the mod I'll use. And to hear it'll be released for free, sounds too good to be true!
Good luck with work on this, it looks great so far (environments using sci-fi stock media in the screens look a bit bumpy, but that's allright, seeing as they're demonstrations.)

If you're using the source with the map editor code later, I have a suggestion. Why not make a sort of quick, shaded preview of the level in the map editor? That way, you could get a quick look at how the environments look before testing it fully. Just a toggle on/off button.

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Dark Goblin
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Posted: 17th Jul 2009 13:29
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well... the Deferred Renderer needs a lot of performance and I think that this would kill the Map Editor.
I really want to add the Water Shader Plain in the Map Editor but that the Shader are added in the Map Editor, is something which needs a lot of performance because you also need to render all the Lights and Shadows, which could be nice, to see the shadows update in Real-time in the editor.

We will see what can be done with the map-Editor source code!

... efxMod Developer!
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Asteric
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Posted: 17th Jul 2009 17:51
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Nice list of features i see, how much do you plan to charge for this MOD? and will there be a free version along the lines of EFX?

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Math89
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Posted: 17th Jul 2009 22:53
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Quote: "the Deferred Shading Renderer can not render more than 8."

One of the main points of deferred shading is to allow an unlimited amount of lights. Why do you have such a limit?
Moreover, you don't need to stick with point lights, deferred shading allows to have different kind of lights easily (such as directional or spot lights). I don't know if the FPSC editor allows to put those kind of lights, but it would be a nice addition.
About the performances, there is nothing you can do: as long as DBPro doesn't support Multiple Render Targets, deferred shading will be painfully slow.
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DarkFrost
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Posted: 17th Jul 2009 23:03 Edited at: 18th Jul 2009 00:19
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Hey Goblin I've been talking to Ply about his mod and the way he intergrated airmod .6 into his newer version which runs in v1.15. He says it wasn't too hard and has no bugs at all. I notice the same thing when i use it, no bugs whatsoever and it runs the same as it does in 1.09.

Thats why i added you on msn. To discuss the intergration of airmod .6 with you and to see if you'll go through with it or if theres some reason you cant. If you decided to give it a shot you or I could contact Ply and discuss how he did it and mabye he could help you out.

I've been talking to him about it and now i'll talk to you about this because i truly believe there are many other members of this community who would love to see airmod with these great visual effects. Remember airmod means ironsights and recoil plus a timer system that could help with the performance of cranox. Let me know what you think. Remember im doing this to help you and your mod out with being even more successful. I also dont mind helping out with development or testing of Cranox ether.

BTW you going to get a fancy website going for this lol. Or is this going to be included in helix's website (like hosted with the DL and screens)

[img][/img]

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knxrb
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Posted: 17th Jul 2009 23:21
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Quote: "One of the main points of deferred shading is to allow an unlimited amount of lights. Why do you have such a limit? "

He may be using the lgihts in the same way as FPSC, it uses 7 hardware lights to render all the nearest lights on the screen.

knxrb

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Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 18th Jul 2009 05:10
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Hey, will this mod have weapon blur? Like when you reload the weapon blurs as it moves?

"You are not smart! You are very un-smart!"
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DarkFrost
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Posted: 18th Jul 2009 06:11
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Not sure about weapon blur, but cranox mod includes motion blur.

Consider it a feature request than, but not sure why you would want that. Altough anything towards a better mod right

[img][/img]

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Inspire
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Posted: 18th Jul 2009 06:31
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Can you turn all of these effects off if you want?

If so, fantastic job and I love you.

If not, fantastic job.



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DarkFrost
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Posted: 18th Jul 2009 06:35 Edited at: 18th Jul 2009 06:36
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Well seeing how dark goblin also had a role in efx mod which you could adjust and turn off the settings im guessing its the same here.

Goblin already mentioned in this post that the variables/features could be adjusted to your likings. Meaning the change of colour(for water),bloom strength,motion blur on/off etc. So im sure you can turn things off.

... lol i feel like im assisting in development or something since im answering so many questions, i better lay off

[img][/img]

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Inspire
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Posted: 18th Jul 2009 06:36
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Then,

Fantastic job and I love you.

Maybe incorporate AirMod? Besides that, this looks fantastical.

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DarkFrost
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Posted: 18th Jul 2009 06:38 Edited at: 18th Jul 2009 06:39
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Actually ive been personally talking to ply and trying to make contact with goblin to talk to him about it. Ply having intergrated it himself into 1.15 he could help goblin out with it. The problem is that goblin thinks its buggy in 1.15 but im sure after using plysmod he would see it isnt, bringing up hope of an intergration

[img][/img]

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Wolf
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Posted: 18th Jul 2009 06:38
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You know, me and Shader effects fit like Jay and Silent Bob. Awesome Work there, and nice to see the first real "Cranox" Product.

I hope to get my hands on this ASAP



-Wolf

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The Fps Creator rocks!
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Posted: 18th Jul 2009 19:10
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Awesome!

I want a new computer!
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meteorite
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Posted: 18th Jul 2009 21:04
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This looks nice, but I think it looks a bit too much like an oil painting, but thats just my opinion. Also, if you integrate airmod into the FPSC source, you dont get timer and ironsights, just one depending on which version of airmod you get.

Airmod 5 has timer based, but it was removed before airmod 6, which has irons.

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DarkFrost
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Posted: 18th Jul 2009 22:28
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Ether way i havn't had a response from goblin so for now airmod is out of the question. Altough airmod .6 does contain ironsights,recoil etc. A timer based system shouldnt be too hard to intergrate from what i've seen with wizmod doing it.

[img][/img]

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Dark Goblin
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Posted: 19th Jul 2009 02:26 Edited at: 19th Jul 2009 02:29
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A very important news for you guys:

Now you can have up to 20 Lights rendered together (sure only 8 of them with Shadows) but now your Level gets the Lightning.

So now you are able to see more than just these 8 Lights in a Level, which had caused some major Lightning Problems.

Well if you set the Lights not that careful in your map, you will see lights through walls, but better than nothing, isnt it?

I could change the amount of lights easily, but more lights, will need more performance so I think 20 are enough.

DG

PS: I will see if I get Evolveds Deferred Renderer to render more than just 8 Lights, but I think that is not possible!

EDIT:
I forgot to say that I got no Framedrop because of this change!

... efxMod Developer!
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DarkFrost
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Posted: 19th Jul 2009 02:37
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Good to hear. See I knew you would come up with somethign lol.

[img][/img]

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Math89
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Posted: 19th Jul 2009 13:10
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Why do you limit your system to 20 lights? Deferred shading scales much better than other lighting systems and renders only what's in screen. About the shadows, make sure you don't update them when the light isn't visible on screen, this can give better performances or allow you to use this shadow on another light.
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Dark Goblin
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Posted: 19th Jul 2009 13:24
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ehm youre not right.

It does render everything, also if it is not in screen.

And as I said, 20 Lights at once should be enough, dont you think?

... efxMod Developer!
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Math89
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Posted: 19th Jul 2009 13:28
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No it doesn't render everything at all, it works on a pixel basis. And 20 lights might be enough, but there is no need for any kind of limit, it's better to let the user do whatever he wants.
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Dark Goblin
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Posted: 19th Jul 2009 13:44
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... it renders all lights which are active, I worked a lot of time with his Deferred Shading and the Lights were always active, unless I was hiding them!

So what exactly is your problem.

In the end you can choose how many lights you can have in your level, if its that what you dislike...

... efxMod Developer!
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Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 19th Jul 2009 13:50
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Quote: "And 20 lights might be enough, but there is no need for any kind of limit, it's better to let the user do whatever he wants. "


Be realistic, dude. Who in their right mind would use more than twenty lights, let alone dynamic lights in a single scene?

"You are not smart! You are very un-smart!"
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Dark Goblin
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Posted: 19th Jul 2009 14:06
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just to show you that the light thing is working, here the old efx Demolevel with Cranox Mod:



... efxMod Developer!
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Math89
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Posted: 19th Jul 2009 14:11
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Since deferred shading has a very high cost just for setting it up, you have to use a lot of lights to make it profitable. The point of deferred shading is to have an unlimited amount of lights and many different light types. Thus, you can have a few hundred lights in your level used just to mimic indirect lighting.

And for having programmed my deferred shading system, I can guarantee that a light is processed only when it's visible. And actually, only the visible parts of a light are processed so you don't even need to worry about the lights the player can't see. It is very important to understand that a light in deferred shading can be ridiculously efficient, and that not having at least 50 of them in a scene is a complete waste. What takes a lot of time is rendering the GBuffer, which is even slower in DBPro because you need 3 or 4 renders of the same scene. So if you're going to have only 10 fps because of this system, make it at least look good with a lot of lights.
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Dark Goblin
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Posted: 19th Jul 2009 14:16
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thats your point and I have understood it.

Lets get back to some different stuff, as I said in my last post, you can change the amount of lights, so everyone will be pleased.

But thanks for this explanation

... efxMod Developer!
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Toasty Fresh
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Posted: 19th Jul 2009 14:18
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Quote: "Thus, you can have a few hundred lights in your level used just to mimic indirect lighting.
"


Yes, you can, but all of them are still in the level, only 20 of them are rendered.

"You are not smart! You are very un-smart!"
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Dar13
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Posted: 19th Jul 2009 15:57
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Quote: "Be realistic, dude. Who in their right mind would use more than twenty lights, let alone dynamic lights in a single scene?"

Toasty, all the lights in this mod are dynamic.

Nice mod, Dark Goblin. How's the performance with characters?

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DarkFrost
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Posted: 19th Jul 2009 18:04
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Performance isnt going to be too good just yet. Goblin is waiting for v1.15 map editor source as well so he can improve the poformance vastly. Yet the performance is slowly improving as he continues to work on it.

[img][/img]

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nikas
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Posted: 19th Jul 2009 18:08
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i hate wjen someone says sometrhing like it will be soon finished and never does...and if it does it takes like forever....so when will this mod be available?i dont need to know about this mod if it is only for you......

divernika
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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 19th Jul 2009 18:45 Edited at: 19th Jul 2009 18:46
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Absolutely stunning

Why do you need the map editor source to improve performance? Project Blue uses the standard v115 source and improves this significantly. Also there is no indication of the map editor source being released anytime soon.

Airmod 6 integration would be really nice. I have to agree that ironsights and recoil can do a lot for the gameplay.

20 light limit is fine with 8 producing dynamic shadows.

You should do a pre release that people with high spec machines can enjoy whilst your optimising for lower spec requirements.
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DarkFrost
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Posted: 19th Jul 2009 19:49
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Supposodly there are things goblin needs to edit and change in the map editor to enhance the lighting or fix bugs it contains or something. He didnt really explain it in depth.

I talked to him about airmod .6 and he says once he ports this into 1.15 he'll look into it.

When he gets online i'll ask him about the pre-release since he never has too much time to get on the forums.

[img][/img]

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Dar13
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Posted: 19th Jul 2009 20:09 Edited at: 19th Jul 2009 20:10
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He probably needs to add the various light types and shapes to the editor so it's easier for the engine tell the shading system what it needs to render. Supposedly the map-editor code is really complicated, even more so than the FPSC-Game.exe code is.

Quote: "i hate wjen someone says sometrhing like it will be soon finished and never does...and if it does it takes like forever....so when will this mod be available?i dont need to know about this mod if it is only for you......"

All he is doing is generating interest for the mod, and getting feedback from the people that would be using it. Kinda like any WIP in the FPSC WIP board.

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Dark Goblin
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Posted: 19th Jul 2009 21:58
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i think cyclone answers all the questions, if I have no time

I have to work on a lot of stuff in the Map Editor source code because of the performance.

For now the Segments and Static Entitys are just one big universe.dbo which is not good for the whole Deferred renderer.
Also there is no way to hide the limbs of this object which need to be hiddin very well, so the performance is really bad because I am not able to hide all the objects which can not be seen.

Also I want to add a low-quality preview directly in the Map-Editor so you see where the shadows will be in the game.
I can add the Spot Lights, which Deferred Shading can render, if I get the MapEditor Source, so a lot of these features need this.

@Nomad Soul:
Project Blue is a completly different Mod.
It has not all the effects and render stuff that Cranox has. It does not need to render all this to the objects, so there is no need for the Map Editor for PB.
In my case I really need it for the points I talked about some lines above.

If all works well, there will be a little Testgame for all of you this evening, but I am not sure, because I want a level which runs nice AND shows the effects.

... efxMod Developer!
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