Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

Dark Physics & Dark A.I. & Dark Dynamix / Is there any real benefit of DPhys over Newton?

Author
Message
z_man
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posted: 7th Jun 2007 08:49
Link
Hi

I have recently been using newton to calculate simple physics in which you control a ball that reacts realistically over many different terrains. I am wondering if Dark Physics has any advantages over newton for this. I am willing to pay $60.00 only if there are obvious benefits. I have noticed newton seems to have slight bugs - I am assuming DPhys is better with this? Also, does DPhys have a 'Timer System' in-built that calculates physics with the same speed on any frame rate?

Thanks in advance!

Intel Core 2 Duo 6600 2GB DDR2 RAM Radeon X1600 Series Realtek Sound System

Persist and you will succeed.
Back to top
Profile PM
Xarshi
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 25th Dec 2005
Location: Ohio
Posted: 7th Jun 2007 08:55
Link
really,the only thing in dark physics that you would use for a game that newton doesn't have are character controllers. Anything else can be done with newton that is done in dark physics. And personally,I think dark physics character controllers suck beyond belief. Thats why I don't use it anymore and felt bad I took money away from my family to get it. But oh well

Hello
Back to top
Profile PM Email
z_man
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posted: 7th Jun 2007 09:19
Link
What do you mean by character controllers?

Intel Core 2 Duo 6600 2GB DDR2 RAM Radeon X1600 Series Realtek Sound System

Persist and you will succeed.
Back to top
Profile PM
wh1sp3r
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 28th Sep 2003
Location: Czech republic
Posted: 7th Jun 2007 12:58
Link
Character controlling is Build-in function for controlling object as player.In DP is really ... s**** cause all physics objects arent react on moving character when collide .. or setting gravity is ** ... I dont know, if is repaired .. I hope, that TGC will repair this. until is not repaired, Iam not going to buy DP. Thats all from me.


PS: Real programmers aren't afraid of math!.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Cash Curtis II
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Apr 2005
Location: Corpus Christi Texas
Posted: 7th Jun 2007 17:55 Edited at: 7th Jun 2007 17:56
Link
When people compare Newton and Dark Physics, they often do it incorrectly.

Let's compare Newton features vs. DP features. As rigid body simulators, DP is far superior. It is faster, can handle a much larger load, and is perfectly integrated with DBP. It's so easy to get started.

In answer to your question, it does have a timing system.

In addition to all of this, you have the prestige of having PhysX in your game.

Now, DP has lots of other features which aren't so great. Character controllers are pretty bad. I don't use them in Geisha House, instead I made my own. I don't use the particles either. However, a game the size of Geisha House wouldn't be possible with Newton. I tried, and I'm very familiar with game physics.

If you can afford DP, I would absolutely positively buy it and use it for your game. I'd only use Newton if I couldn't afford DP.


Come see the WIP!
Back to top
Profile PM
dark coder
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Oct 2002
Location: Japan
Posted: 7th Jun 2007 18:34
Link
The main issue for me is that DarkPhysics requires the user to have PhysX drivers installed, however the Blitz wrapper apparently doesn't so I assume this is just a limitation of DP and should be addressed IMO. It's true that DP is a lot faster at simulations than Newton however it depends how many physics objects your game will use at any time and Newton is possibly more accurate as a simulation.

One big drawback for DP is the vehicles as they are very limited in terms of functionality and setting them up isn't easy either, the whole 'vehicles don't drift' seems to be a big issue that's plaguing DP.

Another thing that may confuse suers is that Newton uses vectors for all positional/rotational/velocity etc data which might be a bit hard to understand at first, however I'm sure someone could make a set a functions to make them similar to DP commands.

Back to top
Profile PM Email
Xarshi
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 25th Dec 2005
Location: Ohio
Posted: 7th Jun 2007 20:03
Link
I was actually thinking of doing that with newton...although I may just go and make a whole new plugin... Anyhow,I personally didn't notice a speed difference in newton and dark physics. If anything,I thought that dark physics was slower,but who knows.

Hello
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Randomness 128
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 13th Feb 2007
Location:
Posted: 8th Jun 2007 00:05
Link
One thing I noticed about Newton is that the timer to keep it moving at the same speed no matter what the frame rate is doesn't work right.

Back to top
Profile PM Email
z_man
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posted: 8th Jun 2007 08:38 Edited at: 8th Jun 2007 08:40
Link
Quote: "One thing I noticed about Newton is that the timer to keep it moving at the same speed no matter what the frame rate is doesn't work right."


I noticed that too...maybe I am just not understanding it but I think the timer system in Newton is slightly 'bugged'.

The main thing I seem to be worried about is the driver. If TGC removed the driver, it could mean people without admin powers could run the game. I would but DP IF there was no driver to be installed. Does anyone know if there is an update coming to remove it?

Thanks!

Intel Core 2 Duo 6600 2GB DDR2 RAM Radeon X1600 Series Realtek Sound System

Persist and you will succeed.
Back to top
Profile PM
Airslide
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Oct 2004
Location: California
Posted: 9th Jun 2007 02:55
Link
The driver is no biggy, chances are lots of games coming up may require the user to download them. Then again, alot of them will have them built in, but needing drivers is definetly worth the final product. I just wish things like character controllers, vehicles, and raycasting were better/easier to use.

Back to top
Profile PM Email
z_man
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posted: 9th Jun 2007 06:16
Link
Ok, however, what about those people who don't have install powers on their computer(eg. Computer labs)? If it is possible to install without admin/install powers then I will most likely buy DPhys.

Thanks!

Intel Core 2 Duo 6600 2GB DDR2 RAM Radeon X1600 Series Realtek Sound System

Persist and you will succeed.
Back to top
Profile PM
Airslide
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Oct 2004
Location: California
Posted: 10th Jun 2007 07:30
Link
Uh....you mean like a school computer lab? You probably aren't allowed to put this kind of stuff on there...let alone the video board supporting a DBP game...lol...anyways, you *may* need admin powers to install, but I don't see this as an issue, as most people give themselves admin powers and those who are a tad younger and their parents don't allow it they can just ask (and if they don't get permission then they can't play anyways).

Back to top
Profile PM Email
z_man
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 7th Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posted: 10th Jun 2007 08:03
Link
Yeah, school labs and networks for people without computers don't usually give admin powers for obvious reasons and asking for the admin to install the drivers is too much of a hastle alone just to install one game. I will do a check on my own PC with a restricted account and see if I can install the drivers, I highly doubt it though.

Thanks for your help! I still think I will but DPhys - it can't disadvantage too many people - and they have a great reason to go to the trouble of installing the drivers - the advanced physics.

z_man

Intel Core 2 Duo 6600 2GB DDR2 RAM Radeon X1600 Series Realtek Sound System

Persist and you will succeed.
Back to top
Profile PM
GatorHex
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Apr 2005
Location: Gunchester, UK
Posted: 15th Jun 2007 02:43 Edited at: 15th Jun 2007 15:09
Link
If yur serious about realism then dark physics is the way to go because you can use the power of a dedicated physics hardware board in the PC. I expect PPUs to become more common as GPUs start to reach their limits.

DinoHunter http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=98385&b=8
CPU/GPU Benchmark http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=101716&b=5
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Hoozer
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 8th Sep 2006
Location: Bremerhaven (Germany)
Posted: 16th Jun 2007 00:51
Link
@ GatorHex: As long as TGC doesn't optimize DP to utilize the hardware more efficient (all Tests I have seen, showed that DP doesn't benefit from the hardware or performs slightly worse), the hardware is only usefull for the fluids right now!
As the GPUs are getting more complex every generation and their performance increases so far that more and more higher resolutions (in full detail) are possible and also more effects are possible, the programms are getting more CPU dependant. That's what I think, but the future will tell!


Hoozer

AMD 64X2 4800+ (939); 2GB; GF 6800LE (@12PS, 6VS; 380 MHz, RAM: 434 MHz)
DP-Sw-Mode-Comp-Entry (updated to V. 1.3):
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=93582&b=5
Back to top
Profile PM Email
GatorHex
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Apr 2005
Location: Gunchester, UK
Posted: 23rd Sep 2007 14:00 Edited at: 23rd Sep 2007 14:02
Link
I have to say i was impressed with the performance of Newton but i don't think anyone is supporting it anymore? The DLL it's using is 1.3 and it should be on 1.5 now (going by the C implementation).

Another problem I'm concerned about with Newton though is that it's using memory pointers and I've seen a few examples crash with memory not valid errors, can be doing with that!

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
Back to top
Profile PM Website
Back to top

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2024-10-18 04:05:29
Your offset time is: 2024-10-18 04:05:29