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Dark Physics & Dark A.I. & Dark Dynamix / Is there any real benefit of DPhys over Newton?

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z_man
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Posted: 7th Jun 2007 08:49
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Hi

I have recently been using newton to calculate simple physics in which you control a ball that reacts realistically over many different terrains. I am wondering if Dark Physics has any advantages over newton for this. I am willing to pay $60.00 only if there are obvious benefits. I have noticed newton seems to have slight bugs - I am assuming DPhys is better with this? Also, does DPhys have a 'Timer System' in-built that calculates physics with the same speed on any frame rate?

Thanks in advance!

Intel Core 2 Duo 6600 2GB DDR2 RAM Radeon X1600 Series Realtek Sound System

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Xarshi
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Posted: 7th Jun 2007 08:55
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really,the only thing in dark physics that you would use for a game that newton doesn't have are character controllers. Anything else can be done with newton that is done in dark physics. And personally,I think dark physics character controllers suck beyond belief. Thats why I don't use it anymore and felt bad I took money away from my family to get it. But oh well

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z_man
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Posted: 7th Jun 2007 09:19
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What do you mean by character controllers?

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wh1sp3r
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Posted: 7th Jun 2007 12:58
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Character controlling is Build-in function for controlling object as player.In DP is really ... s**** cause all physics objects arent react on moving character when collide .. or setting gravity is ** ... I dont know, if is repaired .. I hope, that TGC will repair this. until is not repaired, Iam not going to buy DP. Thats all from me.


PS: Real programmers aren't afraid of math!.
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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 7th Jun 2007 17:55 Edited at: 7th Jun 2007 17:56
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When people compare Newton and Dark Physics, they often do it incorrectly.

Let's compare Newton features vs. DP features. As rigid body simulators, DP is far superior. It is faster, can handle a much larger load, and is perfectly integrated with DBP. It's so easy to get started.

In answer to your question, it does have a timing system.

In addition to all of this, you have the prestige of having PhysX in your game.

Now, DP has lots of other features which aren't so great. Character controllers are pretty bad. I don't use them in Geisha House, instead I made my own. I don't use the particles either. However, a game the size of Geisha House wouldn't be possible with Newton. I tried, and I'm very familiar with game physics.

If you can afford DP, I would absolutely positively buy it and use it for your game. I'd only use Newton if I couldn't afford DP.


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dark coder
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Posted: 7th Jun 2007 18:34
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The main issue for me is that DarkPhysics requires the user to have PhysX drivers installed, however the Blitz wrapper apparently doesn't so I assume this is just a limitation of DP and should be addressed IMO. It's true that DP is a lot faster at simulations than Newton however it depends how many physics objects your game will use at any time and Newton is possibly more accurate as a simulation.

One big drawback for DP is the vehicles as they are very limited in terms of functionality and setting them up isn't easy either, the whole 'vehicles don't drift' seems to be a big issue that's plaguing DP.

Another thing that may confuse suers is that Newton uses vectors for all positional/rotational/velocity etc data which might be a bit hard to understand at first, however I'm sure someone could make a set a functions to make them similar to DP commands.

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Xarshi
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Posted: 7th Jun 2007 20:03
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I was actually thinking of doing that with newton...although I may just go and make a whole new plugin... Anyhow,I personally didn't notice a speed difference in newton and dark physics. If anything,I thought that dark physics was slower,but who knows.

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Randomness 128
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Posted: 8th Jun 2007 00:05
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One thing I noticed about Newton is that the timer to keep it moving at the same speed no matter what the frame rate is doesn't work right.

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z_man
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Posted: 8th Jun 2007 08:38 Edited at: 8th Jun 2007 08:40
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Quote: "One thing I noticed about Newton is that the timer to keep it moving at the same speed no matter what the frame rate is doesn't work right."


I noticed that too...maybe I am just not understanding it but I think the timer system in Newton is slightly 'bugged'.

The main thing I seem to be worried about is the driver. If TGC removed the driver, it could mean people without admin powers could run the game. I would but DP IF there was no driver to be installed. Does anyone know if there is an update coming to remove it?

Thanks!

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Airslide
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Posted: 9th Jun 2007 02:55
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The driver is no biggy, chances are lots of games coming up may require the user to download them. Then again, alot of them will have them built in, but needing drivers is definetly worth the final product. I just wish things like character controllers, vehicles, and raycasting were better/easier to use.

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z_man
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Posted: 9th Jun 2007 06:16
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Ok, however, what about those people who don't have install powers on their computer(eg. Computer labs)? If it is possible to install without admin/install powers then I will most likely buy DPhys.

Thanks!

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Airslide
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Posted: 10th Jun 2007 07:30
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Uh....you mean like a school computer lab? You probably aren't allowed to put this kind of stuff on there...let alone the video board supporting a DBP game...lol...anyways, you *may* need admin powers to install, but I don't see this as an issue, as most people give themselves admin powers and those who are a tad younger and their parents don't allow it they can just ask (and if they don't get permission then they can't play anyways).

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z_man
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Posted: 10th Jun 2007 08:03
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Yeah, school labs and networks for people without computers don't usually give admin powers for obvious reasons and asking for the admin to install the drivers is too much of a hastle alone just to install one game. I will do a check on my own PC with a restricted account and see if I can install the drivers, I highly doubt it though.

Thanks for your help! I still think I will but DPhys - it can't disadvantage too many people - and they have a great reason to go to the trouble of installing the drivers - the advanced physics.

z_man

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GatorHex
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Posted: 15th Jun 2007 02:43 Edited at: 15th Jun 2007 15:09
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If yur serious about realism then dark physics is the way to go because you can use the power of a dedicated physics hardware board in the PC. I expect PPUs to become more common as GPUs start to reach their limits.

DinoHunter http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=98385&b=8
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Hoozer
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Posted: 16th Jun 2007 00:51
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@ GatorHex: As long as TGC doesn't optimize DP to utilize the hardware more efficient (all Tests I have seen, showed that DP doesn't benefit from the hardware or performs slightly worse), the hardware is only usefull for the fluids right now!
As the GPUs are getting more complex every generation and their performance increases so far that more and more higher resolutions (in full detail) are possible and also more effects are possible, the programms are getting more CPU dependant. That's what I think, but the future will tell!


Hoozer

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GatorHex
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2007 14:00 Edited at: 23rd Sep 2007 14:02
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I have to say i was impressed with the performance of Newton but i don't think anyone is supporting it anymore? The DLL it's using is 1.3 and it should be on 1.5 now (going by the C implementation).

Another problem I'm concerned about with Newton though is that it's using memory pointers and I've seen a few examples crash with memory not valid errors, can be doing with that!

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
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