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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Creating a Level Editor

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Sasuke
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Posted: 18th Jun 2007 13:42 Edited at: 18th Jun 2007 13:45
Hi guys, i'm trying to create a level editor similar to CryEngine's Sandbox editor and need some help with making certain features, plus any general level editor stuff. This could be like a community project or something, though it all needs to be made with DarkBasic Pro only.

CryEngine 2 Sandbox editor:


Now we have an idea what the editor will look like, what should I start doing first?
indi
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Posted: 18th Jun 2007 13:55
learn to code

Vampiric
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Posted: 18th Jun 2007 13:57
First of all you need a gui plug-in like a blueGUI or this free one
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=97660&b=8

Then you need to create the gui and link the buttons to extensive usage of rotate, position and load object commands. All in all I'd say it will take you at least 2 weeks making it from scratch.

Computer says n00bed
jinzai
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Posted: 18th Jun 2007 14:10 Edited at: 18th Jun 2007 14:15
Sasuke - You are at it again, aren't you? XLNT

Of course there are the various elements, their types, and then there are the positions and orientations. All of the scene elements apply, such as lighting and so then shaders.

I can't run any pixel shaders, and only a few vertex shaders, so my experience with shaders is extremely thin.

I'll save Ric the trouble and eternal shame of having to plug GUIStudio himself, it is just the ticket if you want a sexy GUI that doesn't take all of your time to program.
http://www.andromedus.com/
Sasuke
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Posted: 18th Jun 2007 14:29
@indi, i'm kind of new to making editors and need help and theres others out there that would like too learn too.

@Vampiric, thats will come in handy, cheers.

Lets start at the beginning, working with windows. This editor need to be in a window that can be resized without scretching or distorting andthing inside the window. I put together bits of code found on the forums to make a render window:


Would this be usful for a render window?
Sasuke
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Posted: 18th Jun 2007 14:41
Hey jinzai, are you keeping track of me. GUIStudio looks great, but i'm out of cash, but may look into it in the future.
Sasuke
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Posted: 18th Jun 2007 16:17 Edited at: 18th Jun 2007 16:24
How would you go about making a gui system without using dll's. Could it not be done in DBP? Also, the pic is of my very early version of the editor.

Daemon
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Posted: 18th Jun 2007 16:53 Edited at: 18th Jun 2007 16:58
I started making this gui system in only dark basic pro- but the latest version on my site now uses Cloggy's dll v3.

Here is
my gui.

Why does it need to be Dark Basic Pro only? Cloggy's dll is free, so why not use it?

Anyway, yes it is possible to make a user interface without dll's. I never made a menu or tool bar- but what I made still shows it is possible.

Sasuke
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Posted: 18th Jun 2007 17:07
Daemon, thats a great gui system you've got there and I should of said DBP and anything that free only. Just checking out Cloggy's dll now. Cheers
Omen
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Posted: 18th Jun 2007 20:16
Sasuke,

I started a level editor many moons ago, but switched over to 3DWS and WORLD. If you want to take what I built so far and run with it, I'd be more than happy to send you the whole source code.

Attached is a working demo of OmenEdit (ok, so I'm not so great on original names)...
Sasuke
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Posted: 18th Jun 2007 20:34 Edited at: 18th Jun 2007 20:34
Omen, That pretty cool, but I would like to learn the ins and outs from beginning to end if you know what I mean, but thank you for the offer.
The ARRAYinator
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Posted: 18th Jun 2007 20:41
Well first thing and probaly the most important keep the code modular and seperate or youll end up spending your friday night rewriting alot of code,lol don't make the same mistake I did. Oh yea make sure you know exactly what features you want in the editor so you design the gui accordingly. Im currently in the process of fixing this mistake but at least the gamescape code is modular so it won't be that bad. If you ever need help with anything let me know as im also working on a level editor in the wip forums gamescape 3d. Good Luck!

Wilf
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Posted: 18th Jun 2007 21:42
This post raised a smile since I've been involved with developing the Sandbox editor since 2000.

Not to discourage you - Sandbox has taken some very smart people many years (and a *lot* of money) to get where it is now, and still isn't finished. But it started as an automatic heightmap creator (called TED - Terrain EDitor) that needed 100Mb of ram and half an hour to generate anything, and grew from there. It's all about modularity as the ARRAYinator says.

So feel free to look at it and draw inspiration - we based the layout on 3ds Max for instance.

Tony Davis
Lead Level Designer
Crytek


Btw there's a lot of functionality in the CryEngine 1 editor still - I use it as a terrain editor in my DB Pro projects.
Sasuke
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Posted: 18th Jun 2007 22:21
@wilf, Thank you and the team for producing one of the best editors around and thanks for the advice (that goes to you aslo ARRAYinator). My first editor was made for snapping objects to a grid to make simple levels. I'm basing the new on yours because I like that you've taken the programming side out and let the artists create without going through tons of code, plus being able to drop in the game and play is a great idea.
The ARRAYinator
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Posted: 18th Jun 2007 22:28
Wow its amazing what kind of people are on these forums. I look up to you man I can only hope my editor can come out 1/1000 of that and even thats asking for much. Have you ever posted any of your dbpro projects on the forums here Wilf? Cause id love to see them! Anyways Nice to see that you use dbpro Wilf(adds to list of people in profesional game development that use dbpro list,lol) and good luck to everyone on all there projects!

BTW It does look alot like max.

Sasuke
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Posted: 20th Jun 2007 12:51 Edited at: 20th Jun 2007 12:52
I've been working on the gui system and this is what it looks like:


I can so far change every color and style of the interface just by going into my prefrences menu and sliding color bars around or loading images. I'm going for a windows feel and looking at the pic the default editor color set is the top one. Now the question, what should be taken into account when working with gui's, like working with lots of sprites, positioning everything, memory usage and anything else to do with gui's. Thanks to anyone that will help.
MikeB
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Posted: 20th Jun 2007 14:33
WOW! The lead level designer from Crytek...... My jaw is still dragging along the floor from the videos of Crysis 2/Cryengine 2.

E.D.


Shame I can't change my name
Sasuke
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Posted: 20th Jun 2007 15:01 Edited at: 20th Jun 2007 15:05
I feel the same way Eldest Dragon, I wasn't sure how to reply and didn't expect the lead level designer of Crytek using DBP.

If anyone else has any level editor related questions please post them.
The ARRAYinator
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Posted: 20th Jun 2007 18:53
Wow Susuke pretty impressive GUI you ve got there! It looks like your pretty serious about this project. are you planning on this to be an outdoor or indoor editor? Anyways I wish you the best of luck on this project and if you need any help let me know!

Sasuke
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Posted: 20th Jun 2007 21:20 Edited at: 21st Jun 2007 12:01
Cheers ARRAYinator, it's going to be a editor based on the CryEngine Sandbox editor witch is indoor and outdoor. Gui still needs tweaking to work with the render window though. Added a new style, a kind of Mac black interface just because it looks sleek.



This is all made with DBP if anyone was wondering.
Sasuke
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2007 10:47
Few questions,
- Base model size, I mean what should models be based around, I usually use 128 x 128 but when models get complicated model sizes are all over the place.
- Customizable interface, will people care about this feature.

This thread is for anyone making a level editor not just me.
Sasuke
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Posted: 24th Jun 2007 20:47 Edited at: 24th Jun 2007 20:48
Haven't had much time to work on the editor, but heres what the layout going to look like.



Same questions as on last post, thank in advance.
The ARRAYinator
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Posted: 24th Jun 2007 20:55
Looks like things are really coming along Susuke. Looks good! As for your questions I don't know exactly what you mean by your first question. If I understand you correctly I think you mean world scale and thats really entirely up to you and I just left that to the user in my editor with a modifiable grid. As for user customization I have decided against it for the reason that I feel its more of a luxury then anything so basically if you have time then I guess you could but that would be like a last minute feature if it was me. Just focus on making a user friendly UI and you should have no problems.

Sasuke
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Posted: 24th Jun 2007 21:22
The ARRAYinator, for the first question, most of the models will be made using a modeller and I wanted to know what was the standard size like say for a floor plain, but I guess it could what I want. And as you said, I'll do the customizable interface after the editors near final. Cheers.

This might take a long time to complete because I need to wait until there’s any decent terrain I could use in the editor, plus the annoying shadows problem, hope these get improved in the future. You would think DBP would have implemented basic things that are in all games, I still love DBP and love the challenge at created them though so that a bonus I guess.
dononeton
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Posted: 24th Jun 2007 23:54
@ Sasuke

I am just starting on my level editor. Just started today so far I am able to have my listview be populated with the contents of a folder then select an item in the list view and load that model. Also I can select the model in the 3d view and drag it around to new positions. I am planning to have tabs. One for segments(models exported out of a 3d package I guess it would be like brushes) , meshes,entities,and terrain. Each item would be setup differently, well at least in the collision area. My question is how are you setting up your editor

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Sasuke
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Posted: 25th Jun 2007 00:03
It's based on the CryEngine Sandbox editor and it will be very similar to 3ds max. I just have'nt had the time lately to continue it but should be able to this following week.
Sasuke
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Posted: 25th Jun 2007 01:01 Edited at: 25th Jun 2007 01:02
Does anyone know how to make a 3d circle? Thanks.
GatorHex
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Posted: 25th Jun 2007 01:27 Edited at: 25th Jun 2007 01:27
If sum1 created a level editor that used LUA it would rock

vorconan
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Posted: 25th Jun 2007 01:38
Quote: "Does anyone know how to make a 3d circle? Thanks."


You mean a tube?
Sasuke
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Posted: 25th Jun 2007 01:45
I mean drawing a 2d circle to 3d space(I think that right). I know Cloggys dll can do it but I'm having problems getting it working at the moment.
Daemon
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Posted: 25th Jun 2007 04:05
I don't have DBP on this computer on this computer so I'm not going to try to make it, but you could try to make a 3d circle function which uses a memblock to create the mesh.

A cheap method I sometimes use for 3d circles is flattening a sphere using scale object. I wouldn't, however, suggest this for the final editor since it is a waste of polys.

ThinkDigital
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Posted: 25th Jun 2007 09:20 Edited at: 25th Jun 2007 09:22
Theoretically, a memblock would be a good, DLL-free way to do that, as far as my knowledge goes. Maybe tomorrow I'll try writing the code, as I haven't done too much work with mesh memblocks - I might learn something useful.

And Sasuke, nice editor you've got there, I'll be following this with interest.

"Variables won't, constants aren't."
ThinkDigital
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Posted: 25th Jun 2007 23:49
I found a thread that you can look at:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=63108&b=6

Pretty good intro to it

"Variables won't, constants aren't."
Sasuke
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 00:22 Edited at: 26th Jun 2007 00:23
I'm studing memblocks too, and that link is great. Thing that annoys me is finding any basic memblock tutorials that you can learn in steps, its usually, basic...basic...advanced...giga advanced...master...NIGHTMARE, maybe I just haven't looked enough. Anyway, Cheers ThinkDigital.
dononeton
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 00:55
Quote: "basic...basic...advanced...giga advanced...master...NIGHTMARE"


That made me laugh and its true

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Daemon
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 01:07
This is what I use for mesh memblocks.

Click

Sasuke
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 01:29
Thats an awesome tutorial Daemon , but here where I got stuck, I can make a rainbow coloured 3d triangle...hmm...maybe I'll make a rainbow coloured 3d square, NO!,I'll top that and invent a new super rainbow coloured 3d shape, I did't know what to learn next. Has anyone else got stuck in the learning process?
sp3ng
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 02:42 Edited at: 26th Jun 2007 02:45
awsome editor, congrats on getting it to this point so quickly, i tend to go fairly slowly on my projects, but then i am still a bit of a n00b when it comes to knowing how to use about half the commands in dbpro.

EDIT: also what will it be like for editing heightmaps? if its as good as it looks i'll deffinatly use it
The ARRAYinator
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 04:05
Well I think im am doing something similar to you were in my editor the cursor is a 3d circle type thing. WHat I do is externally model a ring shaped object and then scale it when I see fit. To me this is the easiest way even if I do use memblocks alot. Good Luck!

ThinkDigital
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 10:55
Sure. You could also flatten cyliner. The only weakness of those approaches is that you have no choice about how many vertices form the circle.

"Variables won't, constants aren't."
Scraggle
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 12:07
Use a plain ... texture a circle on it.



Sasuke
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Posted: 26th Jun 2007 12:09 Edited at: 27th Jun 2007 19:12
OK, I think I've got it. I made a cylinder in a modeller 128(world scale size) x 0, up'd the rotation segements, loaded it and set wireframe on and heres the result:



I can scale it depending on how far the camera is so you'll never get close enough to see the frame, what do think?

[Edit] Just found out that even if you get near the circle because the height is 0 it will always look like a line.
Sasuke
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Posted: 27th Jun 2007 19:20 Edited at: 28th Jun 2007 09:49
Still busy and away from my pc, this sucks. Anyway, wanted to ask whats the best method to make timer based movement? Cheers
Sasuke
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Posted: 1st Jul 2007 22:17 Edited at: 1st Jul 2007 22:18
How do you clip polygons using portals, so if there was an object in front of this terrain, the object would be the portal and any the camera can't see behide the object is clipped. How does this would work?

da power pwnerer
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Posted: 12th Jul 2007 22:15
any updates?

Sasuke
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Posted: 13th Jul 2007 12:34
I've finished the gui system and parts of the editor. You can drag and drop models from the model list, retexture them, apply different shaders to it, scale/rotate and move. When you click on a model a general properties list pops up and you can change things like collision, shadows, gravity, light and you can add properties to it. There’s also a limb list where each limb for that model can be edited. You can also change general world setting, things like time of day and weather.

Currently working on an event editor, and still having a hell of a time with terrain, I’m working on this and a FPS and a RPG at the same time, The FPS is a nice and small deathmatch game with a twist and I’ve working on the RPG for a long time and can't wait to show everyone, you wouldn't believe what DBP is capable of.

Major upset, my PSU blow the other day, so I’m waiting to get paid to get a new one. Well I say paid, I don't have a job at the moment but I’m looking like a mad man, so fingers crossed.

I feel like this is turning into a wip for my editor, so if anyone else has any level editor related stuff, please post, I might learn something.
sp3ng
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Posted: 13th Jul 2007 13:18
looking very nice. i need to get around to making an editor (for the good feeling when its done, to redistribute it in the game, and to have it do what i need) and this thread is motivating me to do so, just need to work out how.


Add Me
dononeton
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Posted: 14th Jul 2007 23:59
Have you worked out how to clip polygons using portals yet?

Sasuke
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Posted: 15th Jul 2007 23:48
Not yet, I'm researching different culling and clipping methods made on DB/DBP and I'm kind of a noob to this subject, but I've got to learn somewhere.
Crazy Programmer
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Posted: 18th Jul 2007 19:41
Nice work Sasuke. You have inspired me to make a level editor my self.


Load Programmer "Crazy Programmer",1

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