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DarkBASIC Discussion / Community Project

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tha_rami
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Posted: 19th Jul 2007 05:27
Dark Dragon can be said a lot about, but one thing is sure, he is a GBA RPG gamer. I recognize Fire Emblem in the weapon list, he pointed at it once, and Psynergy is a Golden Sun term. Will be interesting to watch where this goes.

Dark Dragon
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Posted: 19th Jul 2007 05:30
wow you sure do know your stuff about GBA gaming.
Dark Dragon
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Posted: 20th Jul 2007 01:54 Edited at: 20th Jul 2007 03:23
..............Did you see my rough draft? I've got an updated one that shows how we are going to flip the charaters(They are just stick figures right now).
Libervurto
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Posted: 20th Jul 2007 03:33
Yeah i saw your draft, you didnt include the "hero" image tho so i couldn't run it.
Dont worry tho i see what the program would have done
I like your idea of have buildings in the foreground. Though this might cause visibility problems.
I'm gonna experiment with that idea.
Can you post stuff as .jpg so i can just view it please.

I am king of the noobs!
Dark Dragon
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Posted: 20th Jul 2007 03:46 Edited at: 20th Jul 2007 03:47
Heres the hero:
Dark Dragon
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Posted: 20th Jul 2007 03:49
I'm still working on that other stuff.....but look at this Ninja!
Dark Dragon
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Posted: 20th Jul 2007 04:51
Uhh.. I might not post until late tuesday....I'll be out.
Libervurto
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Posted: 20th Jul 2007 05:40 Edited at: 20th Jul 2007 06:05
Did you know that knights wore Gambesons? a padded coat under their chainmail. I think our heroes should start out wearing gambesons.
Like this


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Libervurto
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Posted: 20th Jul 2007 06:24 Edited at: 20th Jul 2007 06:25
Heres my first hero. Needs a lot of touching up but you get the idea of scale anyway.
JPG messed it up.

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Sinani201
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Posted: 20th Jul 2007 06:34
Quote: "but this IS a forum?"


Yes, this is a forum. But it's not a forum entirely discussing your project. What I meant by making a forum, I meant make one about making your project

Did someone say 3D scanning on my desk, or was that just an AdBot?
What happens when when you mix coke, pop rocks, vinegar, and baking soda?
Crazy Programmer
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Posted: 20th Jul 2007 09:17
I was bored so here ya go.

~~~HERO~~~



This was the first time i have ever filled in a 2d object in paint


Load Programmer "Crazy Programmer",1
Dark Dragon
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Posted: 20th Jul 2007 15:20
What other types of equipment? (Chain mails,Chest plate,padded gloves,.etc.)
Libervurto
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Posted: 20th Jul 2007 16:54 Edited at: 20th Jul 2007 19:44
Here's what I've done so far



The shoulder guards are called Spaulders; the plate in between is called a Gorget.
The helmets are called Helms.
The shin guards are called Greaves.
Forearm Guards (not done yet) are called Bracers.
Upper arm guards (not done yet) are called Pauldrons.
Cops (not done yet) protect knees and elbows.
Sabatons (not done yet) are armoured boots.

Here's how the layers work (as far as I know)
1. Gambeson and padded leggings.
2. Chainmail
3. 1st layer armour (Pauldrons, Bracers, Gorget, leg guards)
4. 2nd layer armour (cops, chest plate, spaulders)
5. 3rd layer armour (Gauntlets, Sabatons, Helm)

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Libervurto
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Posted: 20th Jul 2007 18:49
I'm keeping this image in my head, if we can make something that looks like that this game will be awesome!



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Libervurto
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Posted: 20th Jul 2007 19:16
The 3D world could get quite complicated, but I have an idea of how to do it.
As all objects are 2D they have no depth, so we have to make depth: Each object will need volume parameters (width,height,depth) then we can treat the sprites as 3D objects.
This means we COULD use the "flat" sprites ive made, but the player would have no perspective of how "deep" the object is.

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Dark Dragon
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Posted: 20th Jul 2007 21:25 Edited at: 20th Jul 2007 21:29
I get what you are saying.......but i don't get how we will actually do this.got an example or some code?
Libervurto
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Posted: 20th Jul 2007 21:43 Edited at: 20th Jul 2007 21:49
Ok ill work on an example, this is a new idea for me too.
What do you think of my work so far? I've updated it above.

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Libervurto
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Posted: 20th Jul 2007 22:50
Holy crap I've just realised what I'm doing here. I'm creating my own 3D graphics engine!!!
cool

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Dark Dragon
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Posted: 20th Jul 2007 22:58
Pretty Good so far...
Libervurto
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Posted: 20th Jul 2007 23:18 Edited at: 21st Jul 2007 01:26
Hey if i can get this to work, it means we can have buildings and objects in a 3D world!! And have the knights walking all around them!
that'd be sweet.
This means we could also have your Wyverns or whatever they're called because it supports Y-axis too.

I did it! I'm gonna add this to codebase
Read the header it explains the concept.
Don't worry if you can't follow the variables, they are
very jumbled and confusing.
Move the cube along the X-axis with LEFT and RIGHT arrows,
Move it along the Y-axis with UP and DOWN,
And move it along the Z-axis with SHIFT and CONTROL.
enjoy



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Crazy Programmer
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Posted: 21st Jul 2007 05:44
Thats not a 3d cube. its just lines put together.


Load Programmer "Crazy Programmer",1
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Posted: 21st Jul 2007 05:47 Edited at: 21st Jul 2007 05:48
Eidit: Sorry for double post comp froze and hit the button to many times and posted twice.


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Libervurto
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Posted: 21st Jul 2007 06:18
Quote: "Thats not a 3d cube. its just lines put together."

what do you think a cube is!
Mathematically it IS 3D, you obviously haven't read the code or understood why I wrote it.

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Crazy Programmer
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Posted: 21st Jul 2007 07:04 Edited at: 21st Jul 2007 07:06
Look at it. Its just abunch of lines drawn on the screen. Theres no camera either. Make it rotate, Spin it around. Wait hold on im sorry there just lines.
Quote: "A continuous extent of length, straight or curved, without breadth or thickness


Dictionary.com"
Theres the definition of a line for you without breadth or thickness. That should help you. With this one. How ever many lines you stack on each other there never gona add up lines dont have thickness so it cant be 3d. Your cube isnt 3d its still 2d and is being looked at a diferent angle.
Quote: "the screen is 2D! There is no depth"
There ya go it has no depth its not 3d then. 3d objects have these 3 depthes. Length, Width, Hight. Factor those in then you will have done somthing.


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Libervurto
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Posted: 21st Jul 2007 09:38
OMG you are so stupid! So what do you think happens when DB draws 3D, the screen stretches out and becomes a 3D box to hold all the objects in?
It's called perspective, it's how all 3D objects are shown on a screen! I haven't just drawn these lines to look like a cube, they are drawn using actual co-ordinates. Please read the code properly, I've even written a header explaining how it works.
Quote: "Theres the definition of a line for you without breadth or thickness."

The actual lines are not important, they just show the user what is going on.
Quote: "Its just abunch of lines drawn on the screen."

Yes.... that's called "graphics", everything on your screen is just a bunch of lines.

Quote: "Make it rotate, Spin it around. "

This can all be done with mathematics, I just need to work out how.

I'm sorry if I'm losing my patience with you, but you really don't understand anything about computer graphics. I am trying to learn by making this program and I'd appreciate if you'd learn a little too.

Quote: "Load Programmer "Crazy Programmer",1"




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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 21st Jul 2007 13:31
I agree completely with OBese87. A three dimentional object is just a 2d image, there is no reason why a bunch of lines cannot be admitted into this catagory. Even if it i not technically 3d, he's actually been clever in creating something 3D with totally 2d shapes, without using the quick and easy commands.
Quote: "3d objects have these 3 depthes. Length, Width, Hight. Factor those in then you will have done somthing"

(Pardon me for a second: Atrocious spelling shudder)
His boxes have width, and height, and depth in the same way that '3D objects' have depth, as a bunch f lines drwan on the screen. Now stop insulting his intelligence.

I never tell the truth.
That ain't a paradox.
I always tell lies is though.
Libervurto
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Posted: 21st Jul 2007 18:30 Edited at: 21st Jul 2007 18:47
@INH
thank you

@Crazy
this is what i entered for the DBC challenge. The cubes and plain resize.



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Daniel TGC
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Posted: 21st Jul 2007 19:24
Insert Name Here
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Posted: 21st Jul 2007 19:25
Quote: "gavcx"

Err... What?

I never tell the truth.
That ain't a paradox.
I always tell lies is though.
Libervurto
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Posted: 21st Jul 2007 20:08
@CP
Quote: "Make it rotate, Spin it around."


As you requested.
Try and catch the cubes with the arrow keys.
Use SHIFT and CONTROL to change perspective.



I think you owe me an apology.

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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 21st Jul 2007 20:56
Lol, I love it when obnoxious people get proven wrong...

I never tell the truth.
That ain't a paradox.
I always tell lies is though.
Libervurto
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2007 04:43
@ CP
I am sorry that we argued, I didn't come on here to make enemies.
I feel I have proven myself right and that is the best way to solve an argument.

Peace

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Crazy Programmer
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2007 04:47
Its all good, Im sorry to I wasnt my self last night lol. There was alil to much Vodka and beer involved when reading that last night.


Load Programmer "Crazy Programmer",1
Insert Name Here
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2007 10:46 Edited at: 22nd Jul 2007 10:46
I love it when people make up...
Sorry for calling you obnoxious.

I never tell the truth.
That ain't a paradox.
I always tell lies is though.
Libervurto
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Posted: 22nd Jul 2007 18:02
@ CP
That explains the spelling then lol. I use FireFox and have a dictionary add on, so spelling mistakes show up in real-time, like in Word! Very useful.
If anything you spurred me on lol.

I wonder what DD is going to make of all this when he gets back lol.

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Uncle Sam
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2007 11:15 Edited at: 23rd Jul 2007 11:17
Um, I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but neither version you posted is truely 3D. Crazy Programmer is right. All you have there is basically two different views of the cube, which is basically just two different snapshots. It's the same as if you took two screenshots of a DBP cube and called the cube 3D. No, you need to be able to see all sides, at any possible angle. There is also a need for the camera to be able to move both closer and farther out, and have the cube scale appropriately. There is no doubt that it is a "3D effect", but this is cetainly not 3D.

I don't mean to put a damper of your project though, I'm just trying to straighten you out a bit. If the choice were left up to me, I'd use DB's built in 3D engine instead of trying to create your own; doing that will result in nothing but a headache of code, a less realistic result (unless you manage to create a good system, which you may or may not be able to do), and most importantly, a much lower level of performance, in comparison to using the built in 3D engine. Why try to re-invent the wheel?

Anything you are trying to re-create here can be easily done with a few DBP commands.
Insert Name Here
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2007 11:30 Edited at: 23rd Jul 2007 11:30
True but...
1.
Quote: "Why try to re-invent the wheel?"

Why do 3D commands and get bored rather than experiment with 2D-3D if you find it fun?
2.
Quote: "Anything you are trying to re-create here can be easily done with a few DBP commands. "

This is DBC not DBP. Sure darkbasic classic has 3D commands too, but...

I never tell the truth.
That ain't a paradox.
I always tell lies is though.
Your Sniping Resident
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2007 12:05
pretty cool
Libervurto
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Posted: 24th Jul 2007 00:36
@Uncle Sam
You are wrong. I am right.
If you read my code you'll see that I am using 3D co-ordinates X, Y and Z. That is 3D! All you need to create a three dimensional environment is 3 co-ordinates. What you are saying about the functionality of my program has nothing to do with whether this is 3D or not, I simply haven't figured out the mathematics to perform all those functions yet.
I AM NOT JUST DRAWING CUBES, THE COMPUTER IS DRAWING THEM BY PERFORMING CALCULATIONS ON THE CO-ORDINATES I HAVE SUPPLIED.
Please read my code and you will see that I am telling the truth.
I can't believe that you don't understand the most basic elements of how 3D graphics are displayed.

I admit my graphics are pretty shabby and I'm using the volume of the cube instead of actual vertices (I am working on this now) so all I can draw are cuboids that form out of a point in 3D space.
I am not trying to compete with DB, I wouldn't know where to begin.
My aim for this project is to be able to make any shape object I want and view it from any angle and rotate it any angle. These are all just extensions of what I have done so far.

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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 24th Jul 2007 11:34
Quote: "you need to be able to see all sides, at any possible angle. There is also a need for the camera to be able to move both closer and farther out, and have the cube scale appropriately."

With time, I'm sure he could do this.

I never tell the truth.
That ain't a paradox.
I always tell lies is though.
Dark Dragon
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Posted: 24th Jul 2007 16:37 Edited at: 24th Jul 2007 16:39
I'm Back!!!........What happened here?.... looks like A battlefeild.....
Libervurto
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Posted: 24th Jul 2007 17:31 Edited at: 24th Jul 2007 18:39
@INH
Thanks for your confidence

@DD
lol It's been a bit crazy.

@CP and Uncle Sam
I have to admit my 2D/3D is a very lazy version, and as it doesn't have vertices it probably isn't true 3D. But it was only designed to detect 3D collisions for our 2D sprites, vertices are not needed for this only the box's position and volume. The problem that I have with both your arguments is you were saying things like "That's just a bunch of lines" or "It's the same as taking a snapshot of a cube", this is not true, the cube may not be 3D but the point that it is constructed on and the calculations are.
I am however working on a fully functional 3D vector graphics object maker for the DB challenge. That will definitely be real 3D.

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Dark Dragon
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Posted: 24th Jul 2007 18:38
@Obese87
hmm.....crazy,huh? Well, I'm Trying to get the test level to scroll, and I just can't seem to get it. have you done this before?
@All
So who else is in with this project?
Libervurto
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Posted: 24th Jul 2007 18:43
@DD
I don't really know the best way to do this but...

FOR THE BACKDROP
make the image the width of the screen and so that the left side joins up with the right smoothly then make two sprites using the image and have them move along (one positioned directly behind the other) when one sprite goes off the screen put it to the back and continue.

Show me the code for what you've done.

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Dark Dragon
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Posted: 24th Jul 2007 18:53 Edited at: 24th Jul 2007 18:57
Heres the code:

Just put some image in there to test it.
this is a funny gif I found.
edit:
Heh Heh,quicker next time INH!
Insert Name Here
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Posted: 24th Jul 2007 18:53 Edited at: 24th Jul 2007 18:54
Quote: "make the image the width of the screen and so that the left side joins up with the right smoothly then make two sprites using the image and have them move along (one positioned directly behind the other) when one sprite goes off the screen put it to the back and continue."



Crude, but should work.
EDIT: DD got there first! And that gif is... charming.

I never tell the truth.
That ain't a paradox.
I always tell lies is though.
Dark Dragon
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Posted: 24th Jul 2007 20:49
@Obese87
Hmm... I like your example but I dont understand it.(Varibles,etc.). Could you plz explain it in a little more detail?
Libervurto
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Posted: 24th Jul 2007 21:44 Edited at: 24th Jul 2007 21:54
I haven't tested it but I don't understand what you're trying to do, as soon as the player X gets over 300 the level jumps back 1000 places??

INH is closer, except you need another sprite or the moving sprite will leave a blank space behind until it wraps to the other side of the screen.

[EDIT] My editing was bad there so I removed it.

You don't need to redraw the sprite after every alteration of the X variable (I changed the name to X as it is more fitting), redraw after all alterations.
Anyway, everything (including variables) are not updated until the sync command so the program wont lag.

Sorry, I've actually misread your code, you made the character wrap around the screen not the backdrop. That's not the kind of scrolling we wanted but it works .

here's an example of how SYNC can change a program.
This code won't detect the change.


This one will.


However it's usually easier to keep SYNC at the end of your loop.
Think of a DO LOOP as a strip of paper, the SYNC command is where the two ends are joined.

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Libervurto
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Posted: 24th Jul 2007 21:57
I'm thinking we should keep the player in the centre of the screen and have everything else move around him.
It depends how were going to do this; Are we going to make it a multiplayer (in which case scrolling zones would work better) or are we going to have One character you control or are we going to have three and you switch between them as you play (They could each have their own special abilities then )

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MartinS
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Posted: 24th Jul 2007 21:59 Edited at: 24th Jul 2007 22:06
Looks like this might go somewhere. Just make sure you've tidied and indented your code nicely, so other members can easily read it.

G2L

edit: typo

Coming soon...

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