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Geek Culture / [STICKY] The Posting Competition

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TheComet
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Posted: 24th Jul 2016 18:47 Edited at: 24th Jul 2016 18:53
(I'll qualify everything I'm about to say with this: I'm exclusively referring to people who learned English as their first language, so The Slayer is off the hook)

So what you're saying, Seppuku, is that there shouldn't be a standard at all? That English should be spoken and written as people see fit? If so, then I don't understand how you could possibly say that and I ask that you clarify. If not, then I don't really see what your point is.

You have to place the lowest common denominator somewhere. You can't have humans walking around in first world countries who don't know how to do basic math and are illiterate. Everyone needs to be able to write English, and everyone should be able to apply basic rules (such as using "should have" instead of the similar sounding "should of"). Our society depends on this in order to function. The person who writes "should of" is probably someone who hasn't payed much attention in school and probably doesn't read or write much. And yes, I, along with many others, will see this as a bad trait and initially view this person in a lesser light, because these are - very generally speaking - indicators of this person's lack of intellect. Please understand that I am speaking in general terms. You can throw as many dyslexic cases and other exceptions at me as you wish, but that won't change the fact that they remain exceptions to the rule. I'm also not saying "all people who make these mistakes are dumb", only that they are one of many factors that make a person dumb.

What I'm talking about also has very little to do with dialects. There's a huge difference between using "color" vs "colour" - where both versions are grammatically correct - and using "should of" or omitting a verb (such as in the sentence: "She angry" instead of "She is angry") - which is never correct in any situation.

You have talked about dyslexic people, janitors, and green grocers. I have yet to see, say, an engineer or perhaps an architect make any of these basic grammatical mistakes. There's probably a correlation there, wouldn't you think?

Also page
"Jeb Bush is a big fat mistake" -- Donald Trump
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Ortu
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Posted: 24th Jul 2016 19:20 Edited at: 24th Jul 2016 19:22
OBese wrote: "How is this thread still alive!!??!!?? "


It did get locked at one point, but I suspect that it will eventually attain sentience and escape into the general Internet to exist for until the end of time.

Good to see you back man, how have you been?


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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 24th Jul 2016 20:43 Edited at: 24th Jul 2016 20:45
The Comet wrote: "So what you're saying, Seppuku, is that there shouldn't be a standard at all? That English should be spoken and written as people see fit? If so, then I don't understand how you could possibly say that and I ask that you clarify. If not, then I don't really see what your point is."


I would re-read my post. I've not said anywhere there shouldn't be a standard, in fact, I have said why a standard is good, I have also stated that it isn't always necessary to apply said standard or consider people to be stupid for not having as good as a grasp of the nuances of the English language. I favoured the idea that there is place for using English, but I do not believe in grammar Nazism or expecting people everybody who are native speakers to have that grasp without being accused of being dumb and lazy, as I also do not believe that it is necessary for everybody to do so or that it is a means of measuring a person's intelligence or an indicator of that person's intelligence.

The Comet wrote: "What I'm talking about also has very little to do with dialects. There's a huge difference between using "color" vs "colour" - where both versions are grammatically correct - and using "should of" or omitting a verb (such as in the sentence: "She angry" instead of "She is angry") - which is never correct in any situation."


I was talking about the history of the English language. One has to ask how does a dialect become a dialect? The concept of standard English has been in existence for probably more than 500 years, with color vs colour, it is a change when Americans tried to create a standard form of English and tried to make logical to the language, despite an attempt to standardise English in the new world you get those pesky Texans who say "howdy y'all". It is a sign that it did not work and there's a lot of language Americans still use that is still inconsistent, so I was using it as an example of where trying to make it a thing, it didn't become a thing. Dialects exist because different regions of people speak differently and do not necessarily speak or even write to standard English and a number of dialects exist /because/ people don't use always "proper English". It's how language changes too, heck, it's why our pronouns are no longer gendered, at some point we stopped using them, but they did used to exist in English. Which in one sense I approve of, because I don't thing we need gendered pronouns, but at the same time, if we had them, I'd find it easier to use genderisation in other languages better and my German might actually be less awful.

The Comet wrote: "You have talked about dyslexic people, janitors, and green grocers. I have yet to see, say, an engineer or perhaps an architect make any of these basic grammatical mistakes. There's probably a correlation there, wouldn't you think?"


I didn't refer to a janitor. I used a green grocer because I made reference to Lynne Truss and her army of sticklers in a previous post, in her book she attacked a green grocer for his misuse of the apostrophe. But as for architects and engineers, I don't know any architects, nor have I ever needed to use one. But I am glad that you mentioned engineers, my job involves working with engineers and I read engineer reports on an almost daily basis, and they're that often well written, but still tell us what we need to know. Some of them are fine, others are full of grammatical errors. Grammar isn't a pre-requisite for being a good engineer. I also work with our technical departments and even senior engineers, not all of them have a good grasp on using "proper" English.

But I am sure there is some level of correlation between intelligence and language, but not a straight line, probably a very wiggly one, however, as I am sure you are too a man of science, correlation does not necessarily mean causation.

The Comet wrote: "You have to place the lowest common denominator somewhere. You can't have humans walking around in first world countries who don't know how to do basic math and are illiterate. Everyone needs to be able to write English, and everyone should be able to apply basic rules (such as using "should have" instead of the similar sounding "should of"). Our society depends on this in order to function. The person who writes "should of" is probably someone who hasn't payed much attention in school and probably doesn't read or write much. And yes, I, along with many others, will see this as a bad trait and initially view this person in a lesser light, because these are - very generally speaking - indicators of this person's lack of intellect. Please understand that I am speaking in general terms. "


This has shifted the goal posts a bit. People can be literate but still make grammatical errors and not be completely knowledgeable on standard English. The "should of" versus "should have" to me doesn't not scream "illiteracy".

But if you are talking in very general terms, you yourself have not communicated this clearly, see below:
The Comet wrote: "Correct grammar should always be required, no matter what you're doing. I don't mispronounce words I'd otherwise pronounce correctly in a job interview, for example, because it would make me look like an idiot. The same is true in textual communication. If I'm talking to someone and they use the wrong their/they're, your/you're, then/than - or the one that really rustles me: Should of instead of should have - then my prejudgement of that person will be that they are an imbecilic moron. Especially if their native language is English. You should be ashamed of yourself if you fail at basic rules like that and you are a native speaker. There is no excuse other than you're lazy and stupid."


Correct grammar should always be required, no matter what you're doing.

The key word is "always", it is making your statement absolute, not a generalisation.

then my prejudgement of that person will be that they are an imbecilic moron. Especially if their native language is English.

You are now saying people who don't speak English natively are off the hook, yet the above statement strongly implies this is not the case. In fairness it suggests you give some allowance and you might not judge them as harshly. If you left them off the hook your statement would have been different "that person will be that they are an imbecilic morning, at least if their native language is English", the "especially" says it applies more to people who speak English as a native language, but still applies to those who don't. "I don't want anybody touching my cookies, especially you Carl".

You should be ashamed of yourself if you fail at basic rules like that and you are a native speaker. There is no excuse other than you're lazy and stupid.

This is absolute again. There is no excuse other than you're lazy and stupid. You weren't allowing any exceptions to the rule with your statement at all. No dyslexics, nobody with learning difficulties, nobody whose education was poor (that don't make them stupid), somebody who has focused their attention more on studies that are more useful to them or other mitigating circumstances. All those engineers I work with, lazy and stupid, my senior agent, lazy and stupid, myself, lazy and stupid, many friends of mine, lazy and stupid, family members of mine, lazy and stupid, some members of this forum, lazy and stupid. We should all be ashamed of ourselves.
Ortu
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Posted: 24th Jul 2016 21:37
I feel I make a reasonable effort towards grammar and spelling, but ultimately the content of what I'm saying is far more important than the formatting of every single apostrophe, comma, semi colon etc. I feel no need to keep a text book next to me to proof everything I write. If that is lazy then so be it, but my time is worth something as well. As long as my point gets across is good enough for common / casual usage.


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Posted: 24th Jul 2016 21:51
Quote: "Also page"

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Posted: 26th Jul 2016 02:58
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Unreal Engine rocks!! \m/



I'm also looking into integrating this:



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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 26th Jul 2016 10:21 Edited at: 26th Jul 2016 10:27
Comet, I enjoy your presence as a forum member, but your outspoken and potentially offensive behavior on minor matters like this disappoints me.

Quote: "then my prejudgement of that person will be that they are an imbecilic moron."
I'll admit , when people do things like , for example , putting spaces before all punctuation mark's , it make's me have the same prejudgment toward them . But then , after that , I realize my prejudgment is completely irrational .

Quote: "You should be ashamed of yourself if you fail at basic rules like that and you are a native speaker. There is no excuse other than you're lazy and stupid."
Again, I internally agree with this statement (the second sentence in particular), but it's not something I would ever say to someone's face, because I realize this sort of expectation is irrational. Why? See, "lazy and stupid" and "you should be ashamed of yourself" are detrimental descriptions to give to a person, and incredibly strongly so. When you tie failing at basic rules with those descriptions, you establish an expectation, just as strong as those descriptions, that the person be able to apply the basic rules. Is failure to follow the basic rules a bad thing? I think yes, but to not nearly as great of a degree as telling a person to eliminate all self esteem.

Quote: "and everyone should be able to apply basic rules (such as using "should have" instead of the similar sounding "should of")"
I agree, but why are you so hell bent on this mistake in particular? Is it because it's so commonly made? While I don't personally make this mistake, I can understand how someone absolutely could. Spoken, the contraction "could've" sounds identical to "could of". Indeed, one should realize that what they are hearing is a contraction and not two separate words, but the brain often doesn't pay attention to these minor details. When writing, most peoples' brains don't minutely scrutinize every word to check for proper following of all rules. The brain strives to work efficiently, so when conjuring up words to write to indicate the meaning of the "could have" phrase, the brain remembers back to what it's heard spoken many times, and it makes a hasty decision to structure its output based on that recollection. Take into account also the factor that many of these poor writing habits (yes, I agree they are poor) are developed out of habit at a young age, when someone very well may not know the rule yet. Shouldn't the person correct their habit later in life? Sure, of course. But many don't. This may make them lazy, but it certainly doesn't make them unintelligent.

I think you should also take into account the idea that an individual's intelligence goes beyond "book smarts", if you will, and extends to other areas such as those pertaining to problem solving in daily life, social situations, etc. I myself seem to be a scientifically/mathematically intelligent and highly analytical person, but that's about it... Give me a chemistry textbook, I'll be entertained for hours. Drop me into a group of strangers, I have no freaking clue what to do. Say hi? Tell a joke? Sheesh I don't know. I can also be stupidly inefficient going about day to day tasks, such as getting ready for bed, preparing meals, etc. Heck, my decision to enter this debate demonstrates my personal lack of social intelligence.

I know people who have less than steller grammar and spelling, yet are socially very sophisticated and quite practical in day to day life.

I will concede, however, that I too tend to prejudge a person as being unintelligent if I see them using poor grammar. I do my best to realize that it's an irrational prejudgment though. There are limits to that though; if i was hiring a employee , and , they had writen thier resume like this , i would not do a hire to them. for example;
TheComet
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Posted: 26th Jul 2016 12:45 Edited at: 26th Jul 2016 12:57
Quote: "Comet, I enjoy your presence as a forum member, but your outspoken and potentially offensive behavior on minor matters like this disappoints me."


Oh come on, this kind of thing is fantastic. The best way to get a response on the internet is to insult people. As you can see it's working Besides, this discussion is more than name calling. I have my reasons for saying the things I've said and I am trying to explain them.

@Seppuku Arts
Quote: "I made reference to Lynne Truss and her army of sticklers in a previous post, in her book she attacked a green grocer for his misuse of the apostrophe"


Nice reference, well played.

In response to the whole dialect and language history discussion and this quote:
Quote: "But I am sure there is some level of correlation between intelligence and language, but not a straight line, probably a very wiggly one, however, as I am sure you are too a man of science, correlation does not necessarily mean causation."


I mostly agree with what you're saying, but I don't think it's too relevant to my original objection to these blatantly false grammatical errors. And I'm not even complaining about the more complicated errors, what I'm complaining about is basic elementary school grammar. I don't care if you can't spell onomatopoeia correctly, but failing at correctly using "your" or "you're" is like failing at walking. It's unacceptable and it blows my mind how common these mistakes are. The line gets squiggly when the grammatical errors are more advanced. I see a very clear line when a person makes basic errors.

(Please read the very last response I wrote to DJD64 at the end of this post.)

Quote: "But I am glad that you mentioned engineers, my job involves working with engineers and I read engineer reports on an almost daily basis, and they're that often well written, but still tell us what we need to know. Some of them are fine, others are full of grammatical errors. Grammar isn't a pre-requisite for being a good engineer. I also work with our technical departments and even senior engineers, not all of them have a good grasp on using "proper" English. "


If a person of higher education makes basic grammatical mistakes, something is very wrong with either that person or their education. I don't know much about the reports you read and where they come from, but the papers we write at university and the reports we write for our projects are nearly free of grammatical errors. The same is true for the reports I've read from the R&D department I work at.

How would you feel as a reader if the majority of research papers were full of elementary school level grammatical mistakes? It's downright unprofessional, not to mention it would impact the institute and the people who wrote it negatively.

If anyone is to be judged harshly on their grammar, it should be those with a higher education, because those people are the ones who should know better. That is why I mentioned engineers or architects.

Quote: "The "should of" versus "should have" to me doesn't not scream "illiteracy"."


Given that it is blatantly false, it sure does highlight a certain lack of literacy. Perhaps this is the fault of the education system (or lack thereof) this person went through, or perhaps this is also the fault of the person themselves. Either way, such mistakes really shouldn't be made, and if someone makes them, I will regard it negatively. As previously mentioned, there are obviously other qualities a person can have to redeem themselves in my eyes.

And finally, in regard to native speakers vs non-native speakers: I think there can be no exceptions with native speakers. If a non-native speaker is learning the language, then I will cut them some slack, but it also depends on how long they've been using the language, i.e. the longer they've been writing English the higher I will hold my grammatical expectations.

@Dark Java Dude 64
Quote: "I internally agree with this statement (the second sentence in particular), but it's not something I would ever say to someone's face, because I realize this sort of expectation is irrational. Why? See, "lazy and stupid" and "you should be ashamed of yourself" are detrimental descriptions to give to a person, and incredibly strongly so. When you tie failing at basic rules with those descriptions, you establish an expectation, just as strong as those descriptions, that the person be able to apply the basic rules. Is failure to follow the basic rules a bad thing? I think yes, but to not nearly as great of a degree as telling a person to eliminate all self esteem."


The response to such statements as "you should be ashamed of yourself" is entirely subjective. Some will regard it as motivation to better themselves. Others will take it very personally, get offended, and probably cry. I personally think it's important to be upfront about things, so yes, I am someone who will say these things to your face because I usually don't care for political correctness. Political correctness just gets in the way of everything.

Quote: "why are you so hell bent on this mistake in particular?"


This might sound incredibly pretentious, but bear with me, because this whole discussion leads into a bigger issue.

I'm hell-bent on all basic elementary school level grammatical mistakes because it's degrading. Not just to ourselves, but to all humans and to everything we represent. We are a fairly advanced species focused on improving ourselves. We improve ourselves by creating standards, teaching those standards to everyone, and slowly raising those standards over time. When a lot of people start failing at fulfilling basic human functions, it means the standard has been lowered and we as a species have taken a step backwards. Something somewhere has gone wrong.

If your attitude towards these basic mistakes is: "Meh, I don't really care because I can get the point across anyway at the expense of the reader having to do some more legwork to interpret my mess" then you are part of the problem. That's like burning spaghetti and saying: "Meh, it doesn't really matter because my stomach doesn't care about what the food looks like. I don't want to put in the effort to learn how to cook better." This attitude is destructive and disgraceful. It demonstrates that you have no pride in yourself or in your species, you probably have a very low self-esteem, and worst of all, it's contagious. Other people in your immediate surrounding might pick up on this attitude of yours and start behaving the same way. You are literally the reason why we as a species have taken a step backwards.

If someone then comes up to you and tells you off for not being able to cook spaghetti, and you get all pissed off about it, then perhaps you should reflect on your attitude towards cooking spaghetti rather than making up excuses and denying that you can't fulfil a basic human function.

Leading back into the original issue: The use of "they're/their", "should of", "its/it's" etc. is a basic human function. If you fail at this, you have contributed to lowering the standard on written English.
"Jeb Bush is a big fat mistake" -- Donald Trump
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The Slayer
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Posted: 26th Jul 2016 13:23
Quote: "but it also depends on how long they've been using the language, i.e. the longer they've been writing English the higher I will hold my grammatical expectations.
"

Hmm, I have to disagree on this. It's not because you write English longer than another that you're (becoming) better at it. You could be making the same mistakes during all those years, without even knowing you made them, because no one told you so.

For being a non-English person, plus I never had any English teaching at school, I think I do pretty good, actually. In fact, I had a score of 85 on an English language test, and 82 on French, which was a bit strange considering the fact that I did have French lessons at school, and I even dated a French speaking girl, plus my brother in law also speaks French.

Quote: "We are a fairly advanced species focused on improving ourselves."

True, but we aren't perfect at everything. You can be an expert in languages or math, but you might fail at doing art or sports (because it doesn't interest you, or you're not that good at it, or you don't have the time for it, etc...).
That doesn't make you dumb, lazy or a lesser species. It makes you human with flaws. Which is what we all are.

I can agree that people with higher degrees should be better at certain things, especially the things they use for their job. For example, i once read a letter from a notary office, and it had at least 7 gigantic language errors in it, things even a secondary school kid would've known. That's beyond my comprehension as well.







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TheComet
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Posted: 26th Jul 2016 13:33
Quote: "True, but we aren't perfect at everything. You can be an expert in languages or math, but you might fail at doing art or sports (because it doesn't interest you, or you're not that good at it, or you don't have the time for it, etc...).
That doesn't make you dumb, lazy or a lesser species. It makes you human with flaws. Which is what we all are."


Agreed, but that's not my point. I'm talking about the lowest common denominator. Things that everyone should be able to do. I'm talking about the lowest expected standard.
"Jeb Bush is a big fat mistake" -- Donald Trump
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The Slayer
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Posted: 26th Jul 2016 13:43
Quote: "Agreed, but that's not my point. I'm talking about the lowest common denominator. Things that everyone should be able to do. I'm talking about the lowest expected standard."

Yeah, I know. Don't worry.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 26th Jul 2016 19:42
The Comet wrote: "Oh come on, this kind of thing is fantastic. The best way to get a response on the internet is to insult people. As you can see it's working Besides, this discussion is more than name calling. I have my reasons for saying the things I've said and I am trying to explain them."


In which case, consider me out of this discussion. I do not believe insulting people is a part of a healthy discourse and I am strongly against people being put down, particularly for things such as use of grammar and in the manner in which you have chosen. Bear in mind also, this is not the space or place to insult people, it is possible another mod will stumble upon this and go "no Comet, you are not allowed to insult and you should know better" and do what they've done before, but as I entered this discourse as a member and not as a moderator, I would not think it fair for me to speak as a moderator on this.

But I will say that it is my opinion that this is snobbery, is nothing constructive and not an argument based on reason, this much is made clear in that you have shifted goal posts and feel it necessary to insult and when contradicted, perhaps it is irony, you change your phrasing, I'll leave on an example of this: "it sure does highlight a certain lack of literacy." and prior to my counter point you were calling people illiterate. "A certain lack of literacy" and "illiteracy" are do not have the same meaning, based on the implied meanings. Though I do believe your intention was to insult by calling them illiterate as a means demeaning them as opposed to genuinely meaning they're illiterate, which has me mistrust any comments you make about helping people learn from their mistakes.

As a result, I do not find it worth my time and effort continuing this, I don't have the time for a debate that I do not feel is a fair one. Had you not chosen to insult to get a response and had not shifted any goal posts, then maybe I'd continue to engage. But I have been here before and have found it wastes a lot of time and generally ends up in circles.
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Posted: 26th Jul 2016 19:53
I'm sorry you feel that way. While I certainly did not directly insulted anyone in any of my posts, I can understand why people might find my rather extreme stance on the subject offensive. I stand by what I said.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 26th Jul 2016 20:33 Edited at: 26th Jul 2016 20:33
In honesty, I have grown tired and weary of people who like to put others down and look down upon others.
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Posted: 26th Jul 2016 20:55 Edited at: 26th Jul 2016 21:00
You're misinterpreting my intentions. I'm not trying to put down anyone nor have I put down anyone specific, and I've definitely not used "putting down people" as an argumentative tool in this debate. Re-read my posts if you have to. I was always referring to people in general terms.

If there's something in particular I said which you think crosses the line, please point it out.
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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 26th Jul 2016 21:19 Edited at: 26th Jul 2016 21:30
(I'll reply to your previous post a bit later when I have more time)

I think I'm beginning to understand where you're coming from with these types of posts. Indeed, your posts certainly look like you are trying to put down others, but now it seems that's not your intention. This I find quite intriguing! I actually quite appreciate your willingness to intelligently debate these types of topics, sadly it just seems that the manner in which you do it comes off in very much the wrong way.

Quote: "While I certainly did not directly insulted anyone"

Quote: "did not directly insulted"

Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 26th Jul 2016 21:26
I have read your posts over and over. Your first is very absolute and scathing and putting people down whose grammar is not up to scratch. It is after your viewpoint was challenged that it got "general". Before that, you were not being "generalised", not that it matters either, 'generally' insulting people isn't that much better. "You should be ashamed of yourself if you fail at basic rules like that and you are a native speaker. There is no excuse other than you're lazy and stupid." or "Either you know how to properly formulate sentences and you can write proper grammar everywhere, or you don't know how to properly formulate sentences and you will be the guy who seeks help from other people when you actually need to apply proper grammar (CVs, e-mails, etc.) but are too stupid to be able to do it yourself." From your first post.

You may not be directing your insults at specific people, but you have picked a criteria by which you are insulting people and the insult is to all those who fit the criteria, regardless of whether you've chosen to shift goal posts later into the argument. If you chose a particular social group, you'd be accused of bigotry. "If you are a Mexican, then you are lazy and stupid", you may not be attacking anybody specific and I am sure if somebody said "I am a Mexican and I have a PHD in Forensic Science" and you might say, "I am talking about Mexicans in general, not you", should they still be insulted? Not that I consider you a racist or am saying it is the same as racism, but I do find it to still be bigoted.

It may not be your intention, but it is how you have communicated yourself through your intention to insult people.
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Posted: 26th Jul 2016 21:27 Edited at: 26th Jul 2016 21:29
[EDIT] (Seppuku ninja posted)

@DJD64 Damn, talk about irony! You just won the entire debate with that
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Posted: 27th Jul 2016 01:40
I'm just going to add my two cents (£0.00001 at the current exchange rate):

1) Native speakers should make the effort to write proper English for the sake of everyone else, but if they just naturally fail at languages then it's forgiven. There are many non-native speakers here, and it only adds to their confusion if they see natives using poor English.

2) It's fine to point out when someone makes a mistake, as long as you're not a dick about it. If that person is known to have trouble with grammar or spelling not because of lack of effort but because of the way their brain works, don't bother pointing it out over and over again because it's pointless and it'll make you look like a dick.

3) you're gramer seuck's
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The Slayer
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Posted: 27th Jul 2016 02:30
And I'm just going to add more points, lol! Oh, and also...Unreal Engine totally rocks!! Bye bye Unity! \m/
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budokaiman
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Quote: "Bye bye Unity! \m/"

The one good thing that comes from Unity Engine is that they regularly contribute to Uncrustify.
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Dark Java Dude 64
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PAGAN_old
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Oh hey, i recovered my old account! Havent been on for a while and boy did things happen to me
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The Slayer
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Posted: 31st Jul 2016 23:46 Edited at: 31st Jul 2016 23:48
Quote: "Oh hey, i recovered my old account! Havent been on for a while and boy did things happen to me "

Welcome back, I'd say! Care to tell what happened?
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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 1st Aug 2016 08:36 Edited at: 1st Aug 2016 08:38
Quote: "Welcome back, I'd say! Care to tell what happened? "

Do you want the short version or the ?...... you want the short version... (ill keep it PG13 )
Apartment rennovation, Built my own furniture SD card got damaged and all my pics of the process were eraced but ill upload some of the unfinished pics later. Now the reason i didnt finish my furniture (just need to paint it) Anyway, got into a huge debt over the rennovation, and it was stressing me out so i decided to acquire some.... substances. I began to have a very fun day untill some cops saw me and decided that i was acting suspicious. They searched me and found my... substances.... in one of my pockets. Thats when my fun day of fun came to an end

Fun Fact: The name of brand of handcuffs used by the Russian police roughly translates to English as "Delicate Touch"

Long story of happiness and misery, short, the so called "substances" (dont ask i dont even know what i was buying) was experimental and highly illegal, the possession of which in quantities as small as a fraction of a gram is punishable by 4-10 years in prison and a fine of $10000 (american)
Signed a document that will keep me out of jail duiring the investigation but allows me to walk/work without leaving the city untill the court date.
Got a job, payed $300 and 2 weeks for job training, didnt last a month before getting fired (i know i know, i didnt live up to company standards but in this case, the company was run by crooks because they screwed me out of my paycheck as well.) Anyway, i am still pissed off about it because i invested a lot of effort time and money to get this job and all i got out of it after a month was $50 and a certificate... (screw computer IT jobs, i think i am going to go into realestate business)...
Lucky for me, the court still considered me employed and because it was my first offense and because i am a decent person, and because i am not addicted to any substances, and because i showed that i am putting in even more effort to dig myself out of the situation and because i am a privileged white male, all i got was a 4 year parole. Not even a fine...

And thats how i dodged a giant metaphorical bullet.

Now for the furniture...


Google sketchup pics of what its supposed to be


One of the pics of work in progress which i managed to save.


And thats how it looks right now.

The idea was to make use of the extrea space thats being wasted because of the high ceilings (2.6m) So i got around 6 M. sq extra room in my apartment now.

It was in the making for a whole year. Work was done by me, Some days, i worked all day, but most of the days, i didnt do jack crap which is why the project lasted a whole year.

Anyway, this story has a lot of hilarious details which resulted in my new nickname "Scarface" but i will leave them out because .... pg 13.... Also because if i include everything, it will be a short book...
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Happy Cheesecake
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2016 06:56 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2016 07:01
I think I should of popped back in some other day.

[edit] The above is a joke by the way, haha.

How's it going dudes? I'm turning 21 coming soon, so here's to some good times coming!
Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2016 08:00 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2016 08:01
Oh you're turning 21? I thought you were 22! No idea why, but I did think that...

It's going! I have commandeered the reign won the election of forum president, so that's fun! I still have yet to do anything interesting or significant, other than a miserably failed inauguration speech.

What's new with yourself? Why have you not been on the forums lately? Mmmm? Tell us. We demand an answer.

Just kidding, of course... tehe....
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KeithC
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2016 15:24 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2016 15:26
On the grammar debate:

- We should ALL endeavor to treat one anther with respect.
- We are ALL flawed.
- None of us are perfect.

This forum has been, and is still, provided as a means to communicate with like-minded people from all over the World. I would assume that grammatical errors abound in other languages, in all parts of the World. Putting anyone down, for their lack of grammatical cohesion, isn't "OK" here.

Seppuku has correctly pointed out that he started this dialogue as a Member this time. He has also correctly pointed out that another Moderator may take issue with this. Just because I/we don't post too often here...doesn't mean we aren't watching. Keep it in check Ladies and Gents.

By the way....NICE desk/bed, Pagan!
-Keith
Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2016 17:14 Edited at: 2nd Aug 2016 17:16
Quote: "By the way....NICE desk/bed, Pagan!"
Tsk! You come on here and compliment other peoples' beds/desks and don't say anything about my bed and desk?!?!?! What kind of madness is this! I have the best bed and desk of anyone here.

Just kidding, my bed and desk are quite lame in fact. Pagan's setup is pretty epic, there was a time when I would have killed for something like it!

Also, Pagan, do you mean for you name to come across as "PAGAN_old"? If not, we should figure out how to get that fixed.
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The Slayer
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2016 17:48
More points for me! \m/
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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2016 18:22
Quote: "Tsk! You come on here and compliment other peoples' beds/desks and don't say anything about my bed and desk?!?!?! What kind of madness is this! I have the best bed and desk of anyone here.

Just kidding, my bed and desk are quite lame in fact. Pagan's setup is pretty epic, there was a time when I would have killed for something like it!

Also, Pagan, do you mean for you name to come across as "PAGAN_old"? If not, we should figure out how to get that fixed. "


Still wanna see your desk/bed idea because i havent actually seen it so i cant compliment it.

As for Pagan_old it was a bad attempt at recovering my forum account which i havent used in about a year because i was rennovating, building my desk/bed and having criminal charges being pressed against me, and my old hotmail account was highjacked and couldnt recover the password because of that, but then MS recovered my hotmail email account so i was able to recover my password, but the point is, the forum support here renamed this one Pagan-Old and my other account is now just Pagan (which i dont use) and thats that


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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 2nd Aug 2016 19:08
Quote: "Still wanna see your desk/bed idea because i havent actually seen it so i cant compliment it."
Haha no, I was joking to KeithC. I like what you created, it's very nice!!

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KeithC
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2016 04:20
To recompense for the slander of claiming a better bed than Pagan....I hereby grant Pagan a full 2 points. Use them well.
-Keith
PAGAN_old
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2016 04:42
Quote: "To recompense for the slander of claiming a better bed than Pagan....I hereby grant Pagan a full 2 points. Use them well.
-Keith"


Neat! ... what do i do with them?
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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2016 04:43
Quote: "To recompense for the slander of claiming a better bed than Pagan....I hereby grant Pagan a full 2 points. Use them well.
-Keith"


Neat! ... what do i do with them?
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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2016 09:09 Edited at: 3rd Aug 2016 09:14
Mmm, get rid of half of them? (hint hint: double posting)

Hey, @Randomness128, can we get a point update?

Random Edit:

Today I began working on a hot wire cutter! It's not yet complete but very close. It has a PVC frame and uses a combination of an adjustable dimmer outlet and an AC to AC wall-wart transformer adapter thing. The wire itself (which, oddly enough, is the part I'm still working on getting) shall be one fiber of a stupid, stupid 13 strand braided () hanger cable. After 20 minutes of work I managed to unbraid about 2.5 inches... Anyway, it shall hopefully work! On a little test run with a very short piece of the wire, it threw sparks but successfully cut about a millimeter into foam board. The wall-wart should be able to supply up to 14 volts, so hopefully I can manage to get the wire hot enough to cut through stuff like craft plywood and such. Pics coming soon, most likely!
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The Slayer
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2016 14:08
Quote: "I think I should of popped back in some other day. "

Hahahaaa! For some reason I read pooped !

Nice piece of 'furniture' indeed, Pagan! Just noticed a couple of things that look odd, though. Firstly, you've forgotten to erase the pensil marks , and secondly, it looks like you put the front pieces of the drawers upside down. I say this because, if I remember correctly, in school we had to put the side that has the groove (I hope this is the correct word) in it at the bottom, not the top. The way it is now (with the groove on top), you'll be gathering dust . Other than that, it's a nice piece of furniture, though. Nice work!



Quote: "To recompense for the slander of claiming a better bed than Pagan....I hereby grant Pagan a full 2 points. Use them well."

Only two ? What do we have to accomplish to get like say 100 points then ?

Quote: "Mmm, get rid of half of them? (hint hint: double posting)"

Hahahaaa, yeah...something must have gone wrong when he posted.

Quote: "Today I began working on a hot wire cutter!"

Quote: "Pics coming soon, most likely!"

Sounds cool! I do hope you're being careful now, though.


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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 3rd Aug 2016 22:19
Quote: "Nice piece of 'furniture' indeed, Pagan! Just noticed a couple of things that look odd, though. Firstly, you've forgotten to erase the pensil marks , and secondly, it looks like you put the front pieces of the drawers upside down. I say this because, if I remember correctly, in school we had to put the side that has the groove (I hope this is the correct word) in it at the bottom, not the top. The way it is now (with the groove on top), you'll be gathering dust . Other than that, it's a nice piece of furniture, though. Nice work!"

Well i worked with what i had and the groves are actually useful for small things like pencils and stuff,

See i never had experience in carpentry on such scale before and i pretty much winged the whole thing from the start, didnt have a clear plan in mind other than the general idea of what its supposed to be, and it turned out crooked, full of small mistakes, inconsistencies here and there, but, i thought it turned out better than it could have been.

Oh and sorry for the double post, that was an accident
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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 4th Aug 2016 09:27
Quote: "Sounds cool! I do hope you're being careful now, though."
Heh, I already stupidly passed a very noticeable current through myself. Couldn't have been more than 5 volts, but it was AC and my hands were sweaty, so it was unpleasant. I didn't before know this, but apparently, in very poor circumstances, a mere 12 volts DC can kill a person (and already has in voluntary experiments). Guess I should be careful. Granted, when I get this thing working, I won't be touching the multi-hundred degree wire anyway.
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The Slayer
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Posted: 4th Aug 2016 12:24
Quote: "Heh, I already stupidly passed a very noticeable current through myself."

No vids of that, I assume ?

But yeah, keep in mind to be careful, mate!
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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 4th Aug 2016 13:19
The sacrifices we make for science
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The Slayer
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Posted: 4th Aug 2016 13:23
Quote: "The sacrifices we make for science "

Quote: "Couldn't have been more than 5 volts, but it was AC"

Sounds more like he's starting up a rock band, lol! (AC/DC)
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budokaiman
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Posted: 5th Aug 2016 23:07
What happened to the comet?
"Giraffe is soft, Gorilla is hard." - Phaelax
The Slayer
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Posted: 5th Aug 2016 23:25
Quote: "What happened to the comet?"

Yeah, I wonder too .
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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 6th Aug 2016 00:41
They banned him too?
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The Slayer
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Posted: 6th Aug 2016 00:52
It looks like it. I wonder why, though.
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PAGAN_old
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Posted: 6th Aug 2016 06:45 Edited at: 6th Aug 2016 06:54
Quote: "It looks like it. I wonder why, though. "


yeah why?
Seems like people are getting banned left and right these days. I gotta be careful
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The Slayer
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Posted: 7th Aug 2016 13:14
SLLAAAAAYERR awaits today! They are coming to see me! \m/
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Dark Java Dude 64
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Posted: 7th Aug 2016 19:40
Quote: "Seems like people are getting banned left and right these days."
Yeah, I was going to say just this. Two long time (over 9 years), constructive, active forum members perma-banned over around a 2 week period.
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Seditious
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Posted: 7th Aug 2016 23:17
No worries, I'm still here.
My cat got worms and leaked his smelly butt all over my house.

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