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Geek Culture / Beethoven VS Taylor Swift - What do you think?

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AdrianoJones Wannabe
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 02:10 Edited at: 10th Sep 2009 02:18
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So about a month ago I was talking to my good friend Jessie, and she repeatedly mentioned a song called "Love Story" by Beethoven. I listened and good song it was, but not close did I like it as much as the song "Love Story" by Taylor Swift.
Now I understand that "Love Story" is a popular song name, but just for a little fun, and for the sake of rubbing it into Jessie's face what do you guys think?
Does it go to Beethoven or Taylor Swift? Post your opinion here!
-Adrian

Beethoven: 14.7
Taylor Swift: 5.3

I love Taylor Swift. She's awesome.
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Herakles
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 02:25
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Who's Taylor Swift?

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Xenocythe
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 02:27
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I think it's a useless comparison of music; they are completely different times, completely different genre's, and simply... completely different.

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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 02:28
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Is this an obsession of yours?

Also, I hate Taylor Swift with a passion.

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Lucifer
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 02:29 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2009 02:30
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How can you even begin to compare this song from Taylor Swift to Bethoven?

Love story by Bethoven owns taylor swift hard in everything related to music, and i doubt most people would disagree with me ...

To me, this song from taylor swift is pure crap.

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AdrianoJones Wannabe
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 02:31 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2009 02:33
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Quote: "To me, this song from taylor swift is pure crap."


That's harsh. Am I alone here?
For those of you that say Beethoven owns Taylor Swift in every aspect of music, I would disagree with you simply because I do not enjoy listening to Beethoven's music. It is a matter of opinion.
And with that said, I'm not asking you which one is better, I am simply asking which one you like better.
-Adrian

I love Taylor Swift. She's awesome.
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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 02:33
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Yes.

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Omega gamer 89
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 02:35
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Quote: "Also, I hate Taylor Swift with a passion."

What sane person doesn't?

I have a devious mind.
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AdrianoJones Wannabe
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 02:37
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Quote: "What sane person doesn't? "


I don't.
Personally I wouldn't use the word "hate" towards people. It is quite a strong word and things can hurt much less simply if you use "dislike."
As xplosys said in some other thread, I will say it again:
You can pick your friends, and you can pick your nose, but you can never pick your friends nose.


-Adrian

I love Taylor Swift. She's awesome.
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Herakles
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 02:40 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2009 02:43
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Okay, I just looked up who she is on Wikipedia.

I don't really like listening to either genre, I'm a heavy metal guy myself. But Beethoven was a VERY skilled musician, so he gets my vote.

And I can say that I HATE a certain types of people: criminals, politicians (although, they're really one in the same), those kind of people. I am incapable of hating a musician if I have not met him/her, but I can hate his/her music. I hate Taylor Swift's music.

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Lemonade
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 02:46
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I would answer the question, but I'm afraid I have never heard of Taylor Swift..

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Grandma
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 03:01 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2009 03:19
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Quote: "So about a month ago I was talking to my good friend Jessie, and she repeatedly mentioned a song called "Love Story" by Beethoven. I listened and good song it was, but not close did I like it as much as the song "Love Story" by Taylor Swift."

Beethoven doesn't have a song called "love story"...

You may be thinking of this ripped off song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggP5ODvS81E
Not by Beethoven, Francis Lai.

Edit: Or Henry Mancini's version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJx50w3NV1k

Edit2: Or Richard Clayderman's version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44ryoWj-_Oo


This message was brought to you by Grandma industries.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 03:05
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My brother likes Taylor Swift...which is odd because the guy listens to Gogoroth, then again he went to watch Avril Lavigne live with his Gorogoth t-shirt on, so a bit bit of a contrast: songs to do with teen romance and sex, to blood, pain death and sacrficing goats to the lord of hell, satan. (The latter of course is Taylor Swift...kidding. )

So I've heard Taylor Swift, not my thing but I'm not going to be so opinionated as to say, "I hate her or her music with passion", but if I were going to complement my brother's taste in music, it would be on the Gorgoroth end of the spectrum, because that's the sort of stuff I listen to, though I do have a wide taste - for the 'romantic' sort of music, I'd find myself nearing Damien Rice.

But to compare to Beethoven? Nope, Beethoven would win by a long shot; talent, sound, genius and his influence on music are far greater. Unfortunately, she doesn't possess a great talent, nor does she offer anything really 'new', her music I don't find is all that special. But there's nothing wrong with enjoying her music, otherwise I'd have to give up some music I listen to who aren't all that talented, add nothing new and offer nothing special.

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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 03:32
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Beethoven's music has a whole different breed of complexities and tones in it than pop/country. It's supposed to be admired on a much deeper scale. Any of Beethoven's songs are better than any of taylor swift's songs, and that's hardly an opinion.

I don't listen to classical music, but even though i listen to bands like Jet, Cake, Cold war kids, and stuff like that, i know that - in terms of complexity and depth - Beethoven's music is better than all of them.

I'd call people who listen to classical music "Professional" listeners.
So... i'm definitely voting for love story by Beethoven.
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AdrianoJones Wannabe
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 03:48
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Quote: "Beethoven's music has a whole different breed of complexities and tones in it than pop/country. It's supposed to be admired on a much deeper scale. Any of Beethoven's songs are better than any of taylor swift's songs, and that's hardly an opinion."


Let's not start an argument here, it is a lot of an opinion, personally I would argue on Taylor Swift's end of the spectrum.

Quote: "My brother likes Taylor Swift...which is odd because the guy listens to Gogoroth, then again he went to watch Avril Lavigne live with his Gorogoth t-shirt on, so a bit bit of a contrast: songs to do with teen romance and sex, to blood, pain death and sacrficing goats to the lord of hell, satan. (The latter of course is Taylor Swift...kidding. )

So I've heard Taylor Swift, not my thing but I'm not going to be so opinionated as to say, "I hate her or her music with passion", but if I were going to complement my brother's taste in music, it would be on the Gorgoroth end of the spectrum, because that's the sort of stuff I listen to, though I do have a wide taste - for the 'romantic' sort of music, I'd find myself nearing Damien Rice.

But to compare to Beethoven? Nope, Beethoven would win by a long shot; talent, sound, genius and his influence on music are far greater. Unfortunately, she doesn't possess a great talent, nor does she offer anything really 'new', her music I don't find is all that special. But there's nothing wrong with enjoying her music, otherwise I'd have to give up some music I listen to who aren't all that talented, add nothing new and offer nothing special. "


That's ought to be the most professional post so far.
Beethoven to many people, may have a greater talent but I don't like him simply because I dislike his music. Your opinions of course, must be respected.
-Adrian

I love Taylor Swift. She's awesome.
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zeroSlave
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 03:59
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I prefer Andy Williams' version.

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AndrewT
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 04:01 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2009 04:04
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Beethoven wins by far, because Beethoven is music, and Taylor Swift is generic American country pop.

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Herakles
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 04:03 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2009 04:04
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No it's NOT a matter of opinion when it comes to complexity. It's only a matter of opinion when it comes to whether you like the way it sounds. But complexity (intricate and dynamic harmonies and tempo changes, different instruments playing off of each other and adding to each other, etc), is something that is not a subjective thing.

For example: I like the bands Testament and Vio-lence. Vio-lence has really kick-ass riffs and blazing speed, and that all sounds really cool to me. But Testament has complex song structures, interesting melodies, and it all makes you think. While Testament doesn't have the same level of intesity as Vio-lence (which makes their sound more appealing to me, personally) but they do have complexity, and therefore you don't have to like metal in order to appreciate their music.

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BMacZero
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 04:05
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Vote: Beethoven

Insert Flame Here.



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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 04:06 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2009 04:08
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To add;
Of course, you can claim Beethoven wins when it comes to technical ability, his influence to the music world and how renowned his work is, unfortunately, such things are very difficult to live up to, unless of course you're a musical genius. The rest of course is up to taste.

Except Paris Hilton, but I have long mocked her on these forums, so I'm bound to say that.

I listen to some bands that aren't all that talented.

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puppyofkosh
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 04:12
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Beethoven's music is no doubt more complex than Taylor Swift's, but I don't know if you can really say one song is better than another one. Its all based on taste.
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Herakles
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 04:15
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Nobody can argue with you if you say that you like the way a particular kind of music sounds, because that's a subjective thing. Personally, I don't understand how anyone could like the way pop music sounds, because I hate it that much. But most people don't understand how anyone could like metal music, and I love it.

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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 04:23 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2009 04:29
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Quote: "Let's not start an argument here, it is a lot of an opinion, personally I would argue on Taylor Swift's end of the spectrum."


It's not opinion. By better, i don't mean "more enjoyable by the general public", I mean more professional, with more depth, and with more meaning. I don't listen to Beethoven for fun, and i enjoy loads of other bands more, but Beethoven's music has more depth than taylor swift's, and that really makes Beethoven's music better than taylor swift's in most senses of the word.

Take this picture for example:



It's a nice picture. I would probably hang that picture on my wall if i had it, and enjoy looking at it. Now, lets compare this to the mandelbrot set.



I probably wouldn't hang that on my wall, but it's easy to realize that this is a whole different kind of picture. It's still a picture, but it's more complex, and has more depth.

I don't have a problem with you liking the toucan more (I like the toucan more!) but the mandelbrot set is definitely "Better" (again, better in complexity, depth, etc.)

[edit]
i guess "better" was a bad word to use, but let me just clear up 100% that when i say better, i mean in complexity, depth, meaning, and the like, not in terms of enjoyment.
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Herakles
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 04:33
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> Neuro Fuzzy

That's exactly right.

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AndrewT
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 04:47 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2009 04:51
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Quote: "i mean in complexity, depth, meaning, and the like, not in terms of enjoyment."



Depth and meaning--"meaning" especially--are very subjective as well. The Mandelbrot set has very little meaning to many people, as it's nothing more than a graphical representation of mathematical equations, whereas the Toucan is a result of an artist conveying his/her emotions through painting. Many would consider this to be much deeper and more meaningful than the fractal.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 04:47
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Show me something mathematically generated that has the depth and complexity of something in nature, and I'll be impressed.

I don't think it's possible to call something like this 'better' considering there are many aspects to be considered, some of which are subjective.
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Herakles
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 05:29 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2009 05:29
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Take these "songs" as examples. | represents one note, - represents another, and / represents yet another.

1: |||| //// ----
2: /|// -|/- -/||
3: |/- |/- -/| -/|

1 is very simplistic and 2 is a bunch of random nonsense, but 3 actually follows a pattern and has a certain symmetry to it. Even if 1 or 2 appeals to one person's musical tastes more than 3, he can still analyze 3 and appreciate the organization of the song structure.

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Mahoney
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1. Beethoven was (and, in legacy, continues to be) amazing. +1 to Beethoven.

2. Neuro Fuzzy has a very valid point, but Benjamin has an even pointier one: nature has beauty and complexity that not even mathematics can match (though mathematics is really just as much a part of nature as a tucan ).

3. American pop is terribly unoriginal and repetitive.

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Herakles
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Mathematics/Nature doesn't really apply, because neither orchestral nor pop music is found in nature.

But mathematics is just one method that human beings use to understand nature, not something seperate from it.

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zeroSlave
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 06:27 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2009 06:29
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Whales sing orchestral music and birds sing pop music.

Also, humans are a part of nature, and thus, mathematics and the music that we have created is as well. The associative property has shown me this. (Human Nature)Music = Human(Nature Music) Or I maybe the transitive property. Nature made Humans. Humans made Music. Therefore Nature made Music. I dunno. Too complex for me.

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Neuro Fuzzy
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Forget the math aspect of it. The fractal is an image with a huge amount of depth (because it never simplifies). If you want to get technical, the fractal never simplifies, and so it's infinitely detailed, but obviously Beethoven's music isn't. And while i agree that the word "meaning" is subjective, "depth" isn't (at least in the way i meant it ). Depth being how far you can analyze a piece of music.

Anyways, the metaphor was focusing on the images in relation to music. One looked great, the other had many layers to be appreciated.


[offtopic below!]

also @ benjamin
Quote: "Show me something mathematically generated that has the depth and complexity of something in nature, and I'll be impressed."


Well...


But anyways, expanding on herakles's point, math is just another way of analyzing nature. I would also say that the human brain is just another way of analyzing nature.
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Phaelax
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 07:59
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Quote: "That's harsh. Am I alone here?"

yes, taylor swift is just another pop singer who will be shortly forgotten cause her music is generic garbage. Beethoven will be known forever and is in a musical league of its own.

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Pus In Boots
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Let's have a similar poll. Who is the real king of pop: Michael Jackson or the Jonas brothers?

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Butter fingers
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I think beethoven would be glad to be deaf if you tried to play him taylor swift.

scratch that. I think Beethoven would be glad he was dead before he had to listen to taylor swift.

Quote: "Let's have a similar poll. Who is the real king of pop: Michael Jackson or the Jonas brothers?"


well. Considering that the Jonas brothers have been around all of 2 minutes, and that they're hardly known outside of the west (I seriously doubt that they get much coverage in strictly non-christian countries), I'd have to say Jacko. Which is ironic really because I think Jacko was up there with Jesus as one of the most globally renouned figures.

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Van B
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 16:49
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What a waste of a thread, Taylor Swift vs Beethoven? - sorry is this a 5th grade music lesson!

I'd rather compare Sabbath's War Pigs to Faith No More's cover. Or Thin Lizzy's Whiskey in the Jar to Metallica's cover.

Comparing Taylor Swift-Lavigne to Beethoven is like comparing Apples and Orangutans.

There's lots of good discussion to be had about music, when we start throwing Taylor bloomin Swift into the mix, well most people here would rather gouge out their ear drums with a hot spoon than listen to anything she has ever done, will do, or has done by accident.


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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 17:18
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Quote: "
Insert Flame Here."

You called?

I guess I'm very opinionated.

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bobbel
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 18:01
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I think i like taylor swifts version more

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AdrianoJones Wannabe
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 18:01
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To be honest, it's hard to believe all the insults of Taylor Swift around here.

Quote: "yes, taylor swift is just another pop singer who will be shortly forgotten cause her music is generic garbage. Beethoven will be known forever and is in a musical league of its own."


In no aspect, is anyone's work a piece of garbage. Taking the time to actually write a song and publish it etc, is far better than those that just listen to it and shout insults.
I am not here to start an argument, just a little asking of which you like better, and I'm simply not asking to bring the point of who is better.
Taylor Swift in my point of view is amazing in every aspect, and I know this is gonna cause a serious problem so keep it back, that's just me.
Talking about complexity, that's one of the reasons I don't like Beethoven, probably because I haven't come to like it yet.
I can see this is becoming very offtopic, it's just a bit of an inside joke competition with my friend and just wanting to see your opinion.
-Adrian

I love Taylor Swift. She's awesome.
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David R
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 18:08 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2009 18:10
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Quote: "In no aspect, is anyone's work a piece of garbage. Taking the time to actually write a song and publish it etc, is far better than those that just listen to it and shout insults."


There is a 99% chance Taylor Swift did not write or even conceive the idea behind her lyrics/song/video etc.

Your move

(She is stated as the writer, but I doubt she is)

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AndrewT
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 18:27
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Can I vote again? I'd like to place another vote for Beethoven.

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lazerus
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 18:44 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2009 18:49
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People seem to dance around the idea, so ill jump on the fire.

Quote: "Taylor Swift in my point of view is amazing"


Therein the problem lies...

It’s obvious that the most accepted view here is that she is 'unsavoury' -insults can’t get you anywhere without reasoning so,

She’s a Hannah Montanna clone, and so i have to hate her with a wicked vengeance, the poor ill written songs she spews that massacre the very language its written in and burns me to the very hard sole. Its the ill-contemplated riff to breth my ears, that causes me to convulse from shock and pure respite of the thing she calls entertainment...

I think i hit the nail?

THATS MY opinion...

Edit - spellchecked

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Pus In Boots
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 18:53
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Quote: "
In no aspect, is anyone's work a piece of garbage. Taking the time to actually write a song and publish it etc, is far better than those that just listen to it and shout insults.
"


Someone could spend their whole life creating a song and getting it published and the song could still suck, not necessarily by majority opinion but by simple musical standards. Meanwhile, someone else could spend 5 minutes making a song and it could be a riveting masterpiece.

Quote: "I am not here to start an argument, just a little asking of which you like better, and I'm simply not asking to bring the point of who is better."


In asking people who they like better, you're begging them to state who THEY BELIEVE is better as a musician. For example, I like Muse more than I like Biffy Clyro, so naturally I believe that Muse is the better band. This is derived from my opinion, so by unbiased musical standards, Biffy Clyro could potentially be lightyears better. Having said that, by musical standards, Beethoven is probably the winner here, of course I couldn't say for sure because that statement is somewhat based on opinion.

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AdrianoJones Wannabe
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 19:24
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I respect all of your opinions here, and Pus In Boots, I totally agree - Taylor Swift probably isn't up to Beethoven by musical standards.
The thing is, a lot of the posts here aren't really explaining anything, they're just paragraphs of detailed insults of saying why Taylor Swift sucks compared to Beethoven by musical standards, and not just giving a simple answer by just listening to a song, and liking it or not, instead of going deep down into musical standards and complexity to compare the two. Different they are, but all I'm asking is which one you enjoyed listening to more, and I'm not asking for a detailed explanation of saying why Taylor sucks through musical standards.
I may have said it before, but think about it. Just listen to the songs and careless through musical standards or complexity, or any of the crap in that matter, and just tell me which one was more pleasant to listen to?
-Adrian

I love Taylor Swift. She's awesome.
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David R
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 19:36 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2009 19:38
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Part of the problem is that no such piece of music by Beethoven actually exists under that name

EDIT: As Grandma pointed out already, in fact

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Pus In Boots
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 19:39
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Very well Adriano, I prefered the "Beethoven" song. WAY prefered it.

Spewing crap since 2005!
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Van B
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 19:45
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Well that Taylor Swift song you are talking about was playing on the radio on my way home from work for about a month straight. For most of that time I thought it was Avril Lavigne, then I heard it was Taylor, and had to think why on earth we need Taylor Swift.

It's not like she's breaking barriers in music or acting or hotness or anything. She's bland, and the worst thing about her is that so many better artists don't get a look in just because they don't have that same look and sound and attitude.

All we ever do is raise people up, then laugh at them as they fall, just so long as they don't contract any diseases on the way down. How many years will it be before Taylor Swift dries up, marries some unshaven dousche, and becomes one of these attention hungry no-marks?. In 20 years time she won't even feature in a VH1 nobodies special - in 20 years time Beethoven will be as popular as he is now, or has ever been since he died.

I think the negative ^ ^ ^ posts like mine are from older, more jaded folk who really don't care 1 ounce of spit about Taylor Swift, or whoever comes next. Now if you'll excuse me I'm gonna listen to some grunge from 20 years ago .


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Grandma
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 19:47 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2009 19:48
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I was totally ignored, David. I feel so left out. They carried on like I never posted. I think I may need a hug.

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Cong
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 19:53 Edited at: 3rd Sep 2009 19:59
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Tayloy swift's is one good looking person with nice legs.So il buy all her records and one day she may knock on my door and make babys with me.......i may be a stalker but im good looking stalker and what girl wouldnt wanna be stalked by me im not your average fat deformed faced stalker here
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AdrianoJones Wannabe
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 20:03
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Quote: "Tayloy swift's is one good looking person with nice legs.So il buy all her records and one day she may knock on my door and make babys with me.......i may be a stalker but im good looking stalker and what girl wouldnt wanna be stalked by me im not you average fat deformed faced stalker here "


Haha that post made me laugh. Does that mean you vote for Taylor then?
Taylor Swift's looks are quite attractive and seemingly on the inside she's very nice as well. I'm not making any definite statements here.
She's very pretty, with a good voice, although now she sounds like she has a bit of a sore throat. Anyways I'm not a stalker, good luck with that Cong.

Quote: "Well that Taylor Swift song you are talking about was playing on the radio on my way home from work for about a month straight. For most of that time I thought it was Avril Lavigne, then I heard it was Taylor, and had to think why on earth we need Taylor Swift.

It's not like she's breaking barriers in music or acting or hotness or anything. She's bland, and the worst thing about her is that so many better artists don't get a look in just because they don't have that same look and sound and attitude.

All we ever do is raise people up, then laugh at them as they fall, just so long as they don't contract any diseases on the way down. How many years will it be before Taylor Swift dries up, marries some unshaven dousche, and becomes one of these attention hungry no-marks?. In 20 years time she won't even feature in a VH1 nobodies special - in 20 years time Beethoven will be as popular as he is now, or has ever been since he died.

I think the negative ^ ^ ^ posts like mine are from older, more jaded folk who really don't care 1 ounce of spit about Taylor Swift, or whoever comes next. Now if you'll excuse me I'm gonna listen to some grunge from 20 years ago ."


Very well then. Although somewhat harshly said, I should respect your opinion.

Quote: "I was totally ignored, David. I feel so left out. They carried on like I never posted. I think I may need a hug."


Sorry about that, I didn't notice your post. My bad, I may need to search up somethings then.
-Adrian

I love Taylor Swift. She's awesome.
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Mahoney
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Posted: 3rd Sep 2009 20:11
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Quote: "I was totally ignored, David. I feel so left out. They carried on like I never posted. I think I may need a hug."


Don't worry. I noticed.

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