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Geek Culture / Beethoven VS Taylor Swift - What do you think?

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Neuro Fuzzy
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Posted: 5th Sep 2009 05:47
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Wow, wannabe, let me clear up some things.

First of all - I never insulted your opinion of which artist you liked better. I never said that there was anything wrong with disliking Beethoven, and liking Taylor swift.

Where i take issue is that this whole thread belittles the musical genius of Beethoven (and i'm not saying this because i like listening to beethoven or something. I don't listen to Beethoven for fun.)

Comparing Beethoven to Taylor swift is retarded. The notion that Taylor Swift is a more talented musician than Beethoven is retarded. The notion that Taylor Swift is a better musician than Beethoven is retarded.

I actually haven't said which song I like better. Lets just say that Love story by Taylor Swift was my favorite song in the world. I would still be able to realize that Beethoven is a better musician, and that there is more to any of Beethoven's songs than Taylor Swift's.

You probably should apologize to Beethoven before his ghost comes and kills you in your sleep.

If you don't think that what you've been saying is insulting to a genre, you need to do a double take.

Also...

Quote: "I wouldn't be that rude if I were you."


Quote: "Well aren't you the rude one.
It makes more sense, and is somewhat more reasonable to compare a person's skills, teamwork, cooperation, and such to one another, but it makes no sense at all comparing a country to another.
Well how would you like it if I said, your forum name is neuro fuzzy, and that sucks for you? Wouldn't be so happy would you?"


Quote: "Hopefully I don't have to call in a mod on this one."


Quote: "Neuro Fuzzy, I definitely think you should be checked by a Mod. Your kind of behaviour here is pathetic."


Quote: "dumb ol Neuro"


Quote: "I'm trying to keep this on topic but Neuro is making it hard for us."


Alright, i'm sorry if my joke offended you that much

Yknow what we du ta ur kind 'round here boy?
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Phaelax
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Posted: 5th Sep 2009 12:31
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Quote: "Taylor Swift isn't bad, you don't like her that's all."

If you read the comment you'd know I was quoting someone else who admittedly thought she was bad but still liked her. But yea she is bad.

You made this thread asking for opinions, so quit with the bold responses because 99% of us disagree with you. I gave legitimate reasons why I don't like it and think she's bad. She has a generic sound, a sound I don't particularly care for.

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ionstream
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Posted: 5th Sep 2009 12:59 Edited at: 5th Sep 2009 13:00
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Quote: "I probably wouldn't hang that on my wall, but it's easy to realize that this is a whole different kind of picture. It's still a picture, but it's more complex, and has more depth."


This is by no stretch of the imagination an objective analysis. It is not more complex because its more abstract, or mathematically generated, or anything. It's possible that for any comparison of depth and complexity that you simply don't understand how one is complex over the other or vice versa, making it an opinion.

Quote: "not necessarily by majority opinion but by simple musical standards."


There is no such thing. These standards are opinion/majority based. And if you're referring to the mathematics behind melody and harmony, these don't necessarily constitute the art behind music.

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CoffeeGrunt
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Posted: 5th Sep 2009 13:55
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Taylor Swift is just another blonde pretty girl who can sing half well and makes money in the turd-strewn industry of pop-music...

Sure, she's meh, but I personally think they should use that song in torture chambers. She's just another Britney Spears, and has she made another song since that one, which was released...about three months ago?

I don't like classical music, but anything's better than her...

If I was ever given the opportunity to remove all the bad from the world, I wouldn't, because for there to be heroism, compassion and all that is good, there must also be all that is bad.
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Pus In Boots
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Posted: 5th Sep 2009 15:26
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Quote: "
There is no such thing. These standards are opinion/majority based. And if you're referring to the mathematics behind melody and harmony, these don't necessarily constitute the art behind music."


What I meant was that Beethoven would still be the better musician from a musical standpoint, even if the entire musical community thought he was terrible. So maybe "musical standards" wasn't the correct phrase, but you get what I'm trying to say, right? Opinion doesn't alter how good a song is, it simply alters people's perception of how good a song is. I know there is no magical document that states exactly what makes a song good, but any moron knows that Beethoven is a great musician even if they don't like his work.

Spewing crap since 2005!
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Phaelax
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Posted: 5th Sep 2009 16:15
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Here's another thought. Would any of you turn down her contract and money even if you knew you sucked? I sure wouldn't, so go Taylor! (tayler swift sounds like a porn name)

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Grandma
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Posted: 5th Sep 2009 17:23
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Quote: "(tayler swift sounds like a porn name)"

If there was any possible way to drag her into the mud any more, I didn't have any doubts you people would find a way.

This message was brought to you by Grandma industries.

Making yesterdays games, today!
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Sid Sinister
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Posted: 5th Sep 2009 19:58
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I vote Taylor Swift.

"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Isaac Newton
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AdrianoJones Wannabe
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Posted: 5th Sep 2009 23:43
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Quote: "You probably should apologize to Beethoven before his ghost comes and kills you in your sleep."


First of all, I wasn't insulting a genre. I absolutely do not need to do a double take.
I was just saying, I like Taylor Swift better than Beethoven simply because I like her music better. Not because I think she is more talented, or better than Beethoven.
I am not insulting a genre nor am I insulting Beethoven. I'm just saying, I prefer Taylor Swift, and it's all opinion.
-Adrian

I love Taylor Swift. She's awesome.
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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 5th Sep 2009 23:45
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Has anyone seen that fruit shoot advert with the girl skipping? If anyone is destined to be a porn star.

... Sorry, I got a bit distracted. Um, so yeah, hippy music!

Don't worry, be happy...

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ionstream
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Posted: 5th Sep 2009 23:56
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Quote: "Opinion doesn't alter how good a song is"


There is no globally good or bad song, it is entirely up to people's opinions. There is no right or wrong stance on any piece of music. People like Beethoven because they appreciate the sheer amount of work that went into making each piece, how brilliant his melodies were, and how he used different instruments to create a mood - I get that. It doesn't make his songs universally good.

Quote: "but any moron knows that Beethoven is a great musician even if they don't like his work."


See, statements like that are going to make people get defensive, as you're stating that anyone who doesn't agree with your/the mass opinion is a moron.

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Mahoney
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Posted: 6th Sep 2009 00:07
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Quote: "(tayler swift sounds like a porn name)"


Quote: "I vote Taylor Swift."


Quote: "Has anyone seen that fruit shoot advert with the girl skipping? If anyone is destined to be a porn star.

... Sorry, I got a bit distracted. Um, so yeah, hippy music!

Don't worry, be happy..."




Yeah, it's become that bad in here. . .

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Insert Name Here
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Posted: 6th Sep 2009 00:55
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Explain why the 4chan seal of epic failure features a Guy Fawkes mask?

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Mahoney
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Posted: 6th Sep 2009 03:15
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Quote: "Explain why the 4chan seal of epic failure features a Guy Fawkes mask?"


There's a meme called "Epic Fail Guy" (EFG) who wears that mask, hence the above use.

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AdrianoJones Wannabe
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Posted: 6th Sep 2009 06:19
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How good or bad a song, or artist is is entirely based on opinion. That's why to be there is no "good song" or "bad song", just the ones I like and the ones I don't.
For example, the song "Boom Boom Pow" by the Black Eyed Peas. It is favourited by a lot of people, but personally I don't like it, simply because I don't.
So yes, I believe opinion alters how good or bad a song is.
-Adrian

I love Taylor Swift. She's awesome.
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greenlig
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Posted: 6th Sep 2009 08:21
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But, opinion definitely isn't the deciding factor in whether a song is good or bad. Sure, subjectively, it's everything. Objectively, however, it equates to only a small part of everything that defines whether a song is good. Opinion rates very low when you look at a piece objectively. Sure, it can help identify which songs are more socially accepted, but it won't give you a metre of how good they are.

Look at some of the great, unappreciated works of our time, even in our own industry - games. System Shock 2, Grim Fandango, Psychonauts, the list goes on. These are GOOD games, that, if you go by sales, aren't socially accepted. Still, we would term them, objectively, "good games". I do not like WoW at all, but it is a good game. I do not like GoW 1/2 AT ALL, but they are well produced (read - pieces of crap) games.

Taylor Swift, in no way, comes close to Beethoven (even though as Grandma pointed out...he never wrote "Love song"). That is, objectively.

Subjectively, think what you like. Opinions are like a**holes, everybody has one.

Greenlig

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Benjamin
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Posted: 6th Sep 2009 08:25
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Quote: "Opinions are like a**holes"


Opinions create food?
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greenlig
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Posted: 6th Sep 2009 08:40
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I meant airholes, I think...

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draknir_
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Posted: 6th Sep 2009 13:17
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Quote: "opinion definitely isn't the deciding factor in whether a song is good or bad"


There is NO deciding factor in whether a song is good or bad. You can analyze it endlessly to determine what factors you believe makes that song good or bad. The same goes for the games you mentioned.

Objectively you could construct any number of systems to analyze music and assign a definition of 'good' or 'bad', but really that's a load of rubbish because you are assigning subjective terms to what is supposed to be objective analysis.

Don't get me wrong, I would definitely pick Beethoven over Taylor Swift any day, but that doesn't give me or anyone else the right to say that Beethoven is unequivocally 'better' music.
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Phaelax
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Posted: 6th Sep 2009 18:43
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Quote: "but that doesn't give me or anyone else the right to say that Beethoven is unequivocally 'better' music."


Actually, America gives me the right to say it. I don't know how free speech works in your country.

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draknir_
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Posted: 6th Sep 2009 23:52
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Alright how about in a 'polite discussion' in which we pretend not to think we are always better than other people and decide to respect one another's opinions. Maybe thats something you don't have over in Ohio?
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bond1
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Posted: 7th Sep 2009 01:59 Edited at: 7th Sep 2009 02:00
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One hundred years from years from now, people will still know who Beethoven was.

Ten years from now, no one will remember who Taylor Swift was.

----------------------------------------
"bond1 - You see this name, you think dirty."
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Mahoney
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Posted: 7th Sep 2009 05:04 Edited at: 7th Sep 2009 05:05
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Quote: "but that doesn't give me or anyone else the right to say that Beethoven is unequivocally 'better' music."


We have plenty of right to say it. How others will respond, however, is another thing (for more info, read above posts).

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RedneckRambo
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Posted: 9th Sep 2009 02:22
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Taylor Swift is awesome. She opened for a Toby Keith concert I went to a while back.

Quote: "Ten years from now, no one will remember who Taylor Swift was."

I'm gonna disagree. She's only like 18 or 19 years old. Her career is at its early stages and she's one of the most favored country artists right now. And right now country is the most profitable genre of music (whether people will accept it or not it actually is). Taylor Swift will be remembered for quite a while. Though she will not be remember like Beethoven, I agree with that.

Signature's are stupid.
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AdrianoJones Wannabe
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Posted: 9th Sep 2009 22:46
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I completely agree with Jenkins, in our opinion she is oh so awesome. She's only 19 (shes turning 20 on December the 13th), and I have a feeling she will be remembered for quite a while. And you guys cannot say that she's not talented, she definitely is. Comparing to Beethoven, however, is different.
A question for you guys - if Beethoven started his career in 2008 - would you guys still think he'll be remembered? Just asking.
-Adrian

I love Taylor Swift. She's awesome.
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n008
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Posted: 9th Sep 2009 22:49
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Taylor Swift is a skid mark on the underpants of Music. That's all I have to say.

"I have faith, that I shall win the race, even though I have no legs, and am tied to a tree." ~Mark75
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AndrewT
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Posted: 9th Sep 2009 23:33 Edited at: 9th Sep 2009 23:33
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Quote: "And you guys cannot say that she's not talented, she definitely is."


That's just your opinion. Talent is subjective. In my opinion Taylor Swift sucks, and I'd rather cut off my ear and eat it whole than listen to her for more than 5 minutes.

i like orange
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 10th Sep 2009 00:06
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Hmm...for some reason I'm thinking of A Clockwork Orange - the part where Alex is subjected to Beethoven and finding it torture, except of course, it's AndrewT locked in that room listening to Taylor Swift. Fancy that.

On a technical level she's not talented, but there's absolutely wrong with liking it. I get the feeling everybody is going around in circles:

-I like Taylor Swift.
-Taylor Swift is horrible, I want to tear my liver out. She's just awful
-In your opinion, yes, but I like her
-Yes and in your opinion she's good
-Taylor Swift is terrible. I'd rather shoot myself
-She's not terrible...just because you don't like her music...
-But that is our opinion
-Yes, and it's my opinion
-Oh God, no, not Taylor Swift
-Taylor Swift is definitely talented...



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Herakles
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Posted: 10th Sep 2009 00:46
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I was going to say something, but then I realized I already said it. Maybe everybody else should realize that they've already said whatever they plan on saying and let all this repetitive bickering finally end.

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Happy Cheesecake
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Posted: 10th Sep 2009 00:57
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But Herakles, that would be the sensible way to do things!? I mean, you must be joking, because this is TGC! A place where the sensible things aren't sensible!

Sometimes reading posts from Zeus or I will bring gut-wrenching laughter, drenched pants, and a full load of underwear.

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Herakles
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Posted: 10th Sep 2009 01:10
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I cannot use Newspeak, I will not allow myself to. But if I did allow myself to, I believe the word I would use is "lol".

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AdrianoJones Wannabe
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Posted: 10th Sep 2009 01:51
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Quote: "That's just your opinion. Talent is subjective. In my opinion Taylor Swift sucks, and I'd rather cut off my ear and eat it whole than listen to her for more than 5 minutes."


You're just exagerating there now. I bet in real life if someone asked you that question, you would rather listen to Taylor Swift. The thing is, you guys might not like her, and why don't you just say that, instead of saying some rude insults about her and exxagerating.
-Adrian

I love Taylor Swift. She's awesome.
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Happy Cheesecake
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Posted: 10th Sep 2009 01:58
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If you realize they are majorly exaggerating, then what's the point of telling you otherwise? I mean, you get the point that they don't like her, so that's basically what they were trying to get across.

By exaggerating, you are trying to stress whatever you are saying. That's all they're doing. No biggy.

Cheers!

By the way, my vote goes to Beethoven.

Sometimes reading posts from Zeus or I will bring gut-wrenching laughter, drenched pants, and a full load of underwear.

READ AT YOUR OWN RISK!
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Herakles
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Posted: 10th Sep 2009 01:59
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If you like listening to her music, that's fine because that's a subjective thing. I don't like listening to her music (in fact I hate it), but that's just my subjective opinion. But, objectively speaking, it's no where near as deep and complex and Beethoven's music.

I am officially done posting in this thread, because I'm just saying the same things over and over and over again.

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AdrianoJones Wannabe
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Posted: 10th Sep 2009 02:01
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Quote: "If you like listening to her music, that's fine because that's a subjective thing. I don't like listening to her music (in fact I hate it), but that's just my subjective opinion. But, objectively speaking, it's no where near as deep and complex and Beethoven's music.

I am officially done posting in this thread, because I'm just saying the same things over and over and over again."


I understand everything you say, and with you saying things over and over again so am I. The point is, if you don't like her, say so, no need to be rude.
-Adrian

I love Taylor Swift. She's awesome.
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Mahoney
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Posted: 10th Sep 2009 02:29
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Quote: "Hmm...for some reason I'm thinking of A Clockwork Orange - the part where Alex is subjected to Beethoven and finding it torture, except of course, it's AndrewT locked in that room listening to Taylor Swift. Fancy that. "


Ah, great movie that. And a silly image you have given me. . .

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greenlig
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Posted: 10th Sep 2009 02:34
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Taylor Swift has a beard. That's the real problem here.


That's the real problem.

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Herakles
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WHAT?[center][/center]

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AdrianoJones Wannabe
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Posted: 10th Sep 2009 02:57
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What the heck, no she doesn't, and that is absolutely not the real problem.
-Adrian

I love Taylor Swift. She's awesome.
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Happy Cheesecake
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Posted: 10th Sep 2009 03:01
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Now I believe this thread should die, just because of that utterly obvious misconception. Meh.

Sometimes reading posts from Zeus or I will bring gut-wrenching laughter, drenched pants, and a full load of underwear.

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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 10th Sep 2009 03:05
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Quote: "Taylor Swift has a beard. That's the real problem here."


I'm sure that's just prejudice. Taylor Swift can't help it.


Quote: "no need to be rude."


Perhaps that should be the point stopper? Have opinions, tastes and points of view, but don't disrespect other people's?


Quote: "Quote: "Hmm...for some reason I'm thinking of A Clockwork Orange - the part where Alex is subjected to Beethoven and finding it torture, except of course, it's AndrewT locked in that room listening to Taylor Swift. Fancy that. "

Ah, great movie that. And a silly image you have given me. . ."


Sorry, I hope the image hasn't ruined the movie/book? Because I can't remember of Taylor's songs, I've replaced the image in my head with Avril Lavinge's, for some reason it makes the film version seem even more eerie.

Still, if it helps:



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AdrianoJones Wannabe
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Posted: 10th Sep 2009 03:37
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Quote: "Now I believe this thread should die, just because of that utterly obvious misconception. Meh. "

I was thinking the same thing, but it's interesting seeing how rude people are, and maybe we can teach a lesson or two here.
-Adrian

I love Taylor Swift. She's awesome.
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Mahoney
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Posted: 10th Sep 2009 03:49
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Quote: "Sorry, I hope the image hasn't ruined the movie/book?"


Not in the slightest. And I like the image.

Quote: "What the heck, no she doesn't, and that is absolutely not the real problem."


That sounds like back-paddling (i.e., covering up really quickly; "Is that a cigarrette, young Jimmy?" "No, no! Of course not!"). I'm joking with you, of course. I have to get some fun out of this senseless thread.

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AdrianoJones Wannabe
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Posted: 10th Sep 2009 03:58
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Quote: "That sounds like back-paddling (i.e., covering up really quickly; "Is that a cigarrette, young Jimmy?" "No, no! Of course not!"). I'm joking with you, of course. I have to get some fun out of this senseless thread."


Lol, yeah we should start loosening up.
It's hard with all the rude people around though. But I try to be friendly.
-Adrian

I love Taylor Swift. She's awesome.
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Seppuku Arts
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Posted: 10th Sep 2009 04:53 Edited at: 10th Sep 2009 04:53
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Ah, if somebody's rude, then let it be beneath ye, don't worry so much about other people's opinions, unless of course, you've purposefully gone around winding people up, as they might be illustrating a point, but you haven't, so let yourself chill. Hakuna Matata, no worries, right? (No, I didn't watch the Lion King this afternoon...well, I suppose I kind of did)

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Mahoney
17
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Joined: 14th Apr 2008
Location: The Interwebs
Posted: 10th Sep 2009 06:06
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Quote: "No, I didn't watch the Lion King this afternoon...well, I suppose I kind of did"


No shame in that. It's a classic.

Windows 7 Home Premium Intel Pentium Dual-Core 1.6 Ghz 2GB DDR2 RAM GeForce 8600GT Twin Turbo
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greenlig
21
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Joined: 30th Aug 2003
Location: Melbourne
Posted: 10th Sep 2009 09:27
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So no beard? I could have sworn it was a beard I saw. Could have just been five o'clock shadow. My mistake

Blender3D - CS3 - VISTA - DBPro
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Cong
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Joined: 25th Apr 2008
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Posted: 10th Sep 2009 21:22
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Quote: "Ten years from now, no one will remember who Taylor Swift was."


i sure willSeeing as she's going to be having my 32 babys
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AndrewT
18
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Joined: 11th Feb 2007
Location: MI, USA
Posted: 11th Sep 2009 01:09 Edited at: 11th Sep 2009 01:10
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Quote: "You're just exagerating there now. I bet in real life if someone asked you that question, you would rather listen to Taylor Swift. The thing is, you guys might not like her, and why don't you just say that, instead of saying some rude insults about her and exxagerating.
-Adrian"


No I wasn't exaggerating. In fact I was being rather humble about my opinion. To be honest I think I would rather cut off BOTH my ears, freeze them, then sharpen the tips until they were sharp enough to cut off my legs, which I would then use to strangle myself, right after lighting myself on fire. All while watching the Hannah Montana movie and High School Musical 3, side-by-side, with Backstreet Boys playing the background.

i like orange
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Seppuku Arts
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20
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Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 11th Sep 2009 01:16
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Wow, AndrewT, you have some real issues, still be glad none of your closest friends visit this site, because if I were one of them, I'd be so chasing you with a ghetto blaster playing Taylor Swift.

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