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FPSC Classic Product Chat / V118 Public Beta 17

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Scene Commander
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2010 23:54 Edited at: 3rd Nov 2010 00:09
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Quote: "Sparky's is a collision library, ODE is a physics engine. They are two very different things "


Sorry, maybe I misread an earlier post but I didn't see anyone saying they were the same. I was merely stating that Sparky's system is a faster collision system than the native DBP collision, switching to it could ultimately improve overall speed.

Quote: "Well if people actually bothered to make their own Dark AI scripts they would see how good the system really is."


I apologise if you think I was saying it wasn't good, merely that it could be improved upon. Also, it has to be said that interpreting scripts is a major cause of slowdown in FPSC and anything that can be done to take the major work out of that loop could only help.

I'm sure Hockeykid, that you know I am a great advicator of scripting, and would personally greatly like to see further expansion in that direction, I'd really like to work with a much more involved scripting language, ideally one with closer links to BASIC, however the more obvious mundane work that can be taken on board by the engine the better in my opinion.

But, again, this is just my opinion.
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Nbt
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2010 12:30
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Anything to improve the dire collision handling of FPSC could only be a good thing (IMHO) My "C" key is one of the most worn keys on my keyboard from testing media and maps in FPSC

rolfy pack, rolfy pack, we all need a rolfy pack
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Soviet176
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2010 12:33
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Quote: "Anything to improve the dire collision handling of FPSC could only be a good thing (IMHO) My "C" key is one of the most worn keys on my keyboard from testing media and maps in FPSC"


LOL! yea... sadly. But if they would need to take out the physics system. Not to mention putting a new one in. I think it would be worth it though. I can't tell you how many times I have jumped onto something and flew in the air like 50 thousand feet above my map.

Putting fear back into sliced bread since 4th May 2010
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Payam
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2010 22:20
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I have a very good Idea,
As everyone know for each new update we just update all of old files and new files together and after 1.18 we just download all guns,new medias and etc in a same time but we have them.

So the way is making two separate updates for FPSC,I mean media updates and data update and then we just download the new weapons once then we just update the data for our FPSC.

If FPSC want to goes to V1.99 then we have to download same weapons model for about 80 times,Why?So make it apart to 2 update packs like what I said upper.

Have our guns was a mistake!!!

I am PaYaM
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freak of nature 64
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Posted: 4th Nov 2010 05:28
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What does pressing the "c" key do?

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defiler
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Posted: 4th Nov 2010 05:41
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DarkAI lags the test game so i don't even bother using them.

Second, as marc said, using plrdistfurther to trigger different models with different LOD'S is actually a very good idea. May dive into FPI and see if i can whip something up, but i cant untill i can get money in my paypal to get fragmotion.

Limitless Box studios current project: Lost Contact

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Scene Commander
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Posted: 4th Nov 2010 09:01 Edited at: 4th Nov 2010 09:09
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Quote: "Second, as marc said, using plrdistfurther to trigger different models with different LOD'S is actually a very good idea. May dive into FPI and see if i can whip something up, but i cant untill i can get money in my paypal to get fragmotion.
"


For this to work, you would need to be able to hide entities, which, unless I've missed a new command isn't possible in FPSC. What might work, would be lower poly frames in an animation. I can't model in the slightest but would be interested in seeing if could produce any useful results.

Sadly, as this method would only work on entities it would have a limited benefit as static entites become part of the universe and cannot be changed once the map has been built. LOD Changes to the main would need to be hard coded.

In addition, the obvious, negative side effects of this method would be that because the entity would need to be dynamic it wouldn't cast shadows via the normal lightmap system. Also, if it were to be animated as well as LOD'd the model would need animation frames for each. Still, might be worth looking into.
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Nbt
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Posted: 4th Nov 2010 12:33
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Quote: "What does pressing the "c" key do?"

It makes the player crouch and is the normal way of getting unstuck, or passing strange collision errors etc.

Billboarding would be one answer to polygon reduction. Many engines convert distant objects to billboards and back again when the player gets closer on the fly. Mainly used for tree's etc.

rolfy pack, rolfy pack, we all need a rolfy pack
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pfpl001
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Posted: 4th Nov 2010 16:30
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Hi:

I tried to run the 1.18 beta on my work machine, but got the following errors:

Runtile Error 7003 - Mesh does not exist at line 47562.
LOAD MESH 'editors\gfx\7.x,200'

I have this installed in the following folder:
C:\Program Files\The Game Creators\FPSC

My PC details are attached.

Thanks.
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uzi idiot
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Posted: 4th Nov 2010 17:45
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pfpl001, have you ran fpsc cleaner? if not, run it, it is advised. this will delete all bin and dbo files, which go invalid after an upgrade/downgrade.
hope that helped

good frame rates matter...
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pfpl001
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Posted: 4th Nov 2010 19:04
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Thanks for that, I tried to run FPSC cleaner but it, comes up with the message:

"Program can only be run from the FPS Creator folder!"
"Press Any Key To Exit"

This happens if I try to run this after the install or if I run this from a console, even in the same folder as FPSC is installed in.

I presume it expects FPSC to be installed into a specific folder or something, do you happen to know what the default folder should be?
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pfpl001
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Posted: 4th Nov 2010 19:39
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Hi:

I got the creator cleaner to run but it made no diference

(It likes to run from ....\FPS Creator\) I guess that what the message means duh!

Program still has the same problem
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uman
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Posted: 5th Nov 2010 04:55
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Quote: "For this to work, you would need to be able to hide entities, which, unless I've missed a new command isn't possible in FPSC"


You can load and unload them as per my old scripts and I am sure someone could get to grips with including that kind of system - namely tgc as these things should be part of the engine proper. Thats just one of some of the numerous things mentioned in this thread that could possibly be used to good effect in speeding up the gameplay which is for many still a major issue.

If I was using FPSC then I might have a go myself at the unloading and unloading business but FPSC is still not efficient or stable enough in the core throughout for me to pick it up and use it.



250 seamless textures : http://www.umedia.co.uk
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Pain
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Posted: 5th Nov 2010 08:04
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Im waiting for the next beta, Does anyone have an Idea of when it will be relesed?

I would love to get my hands on that fix for the bloom and lighting. though I do know about bond1's shader I cant get it to work.

thanks,
Pain

Me = noob

and i love The TGC : )
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Scene Commander
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Posted: 5th Nov 2010 20:11
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Quote: "You can load and unload them as per my old scripts and I am sure someone could get to grips with including that kind of system - namely tgc as these things should be part of the engine proper. Thats just one of some of the numerous things mentioned in this thread that could possibly be used to good effect in speeding up the gameplay which is for many still a major issue. "


I'd forgotten about your thread.. I'll re-read it.
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Northern
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Posted: 5th Nov 2010 23:34
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Hi, all!

I'm writing some remarks concernig the water effect in FPSC release 1.18.003


a. After throw something like a barrel, for example, after falling in the water, it sticks like in the mud and not

into the water, because no floating happens, the object sunk in the water and remains frozen. In the water if you try

pushing the object, no linear movement happens, it just spinning around.


b. If you shoot into the water, does not happen also, any reaction such as ripple effect or water gush in the impact point of the bullet.



c. You see a reflection of water on the horizon like silver sparking, sometimes black sparking, even without any lighting on the scene. Please, check it out the pictures in attachments.


Now some comments concerning weapons in FPSC release 1.18.003

a. First of all, I apologize if I'm making some mistake, but a think some weapons are showing a recoil effect a bit exaggerated or too much realistic, eg UZI, Tommy gun, MP40, Vickers. I don't know if there are other with this feature.Also UZI fire rate are very slow

Congratulations for the this great hands art work, where you can see the finger pushing the trigger when you shoot something in game, very nice!


I hope the remarks above be helpful to improve further this great software.

All the best.

Northern


My PC configuration:

Operational system: Windows Vista Home Premium
Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad CPU 8300 2.50 GHz
RAM Memory: 4 GB
Video Board: NVidia GeForce 9600 GT
Direct X installed: Version 10
Monitor Samsung SyncMaster P2270
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A dude
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Posted: 6th Nov 2010 01:39 Edited at: 6th Nov 2010 01:40
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Quote: "c. You see a reflection of water on the horizon like silver sparking, sometimes black sparking, even without any lighting on the scene. Please, check it out the pictures in attachments."



It's because the water does not reflect the skybox and it should.
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GreenDixy
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Posted: 6th Nov 2010 02:01
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@Northern the water in beta 3 is in still very early stages and will probably take another beta or 2 before it works the way it should

======================================

GreenDixy Productions http://GreenDixy.Com
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tant
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Posted: 6th Nov 2010 02:44
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ragdoll in this? how to use it?
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GreenDixy
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Posted: 6th Nov 2010 04:38 Edited at: 6th Nov 2010 04:39
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@tant

use the following code on your char's






======================================

GreenDixy Productions http://GreenDixy.Com
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tant
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Posted: 6th Nov 2010 09:27
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thankyou
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rolfy
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Posted: 6th Nov 2010 09:32 Edited at: 6th Nov 2010 09:37
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Quote: "It's because the water does not reflect the skybox and it should. "

Quote: "the water in beta 3 is in still very early stages and will probably take another beta or 2 before it works the way it should"

The water reflects the skybox fine, any issues such as offset with reflections is fixed by tweaking the shader and replacing the normal map. We cant really expect this to work straight out of the box as is.
The screenshot below is mostly skybox with a few floor segments and barrels and demonstrates how effectively the water actually works if you take the time to adjust settings, its as good as anything I have seen from x10.


I reckon any changes to make it 'work as it should' will merely be slider control in test level.
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Michael Thompson
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Posted: 6th Nov 2010 09:57
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Does anybody know when beta 4 is due?
Please?

Windows 7 ultimate x64, Intel i7, 4 GB RAM, NVIDIA GEFORCE 330m 1GB
Flash Star Game Creations
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Northern
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Posted: 6th Nov 2010 15:07
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Many thanks to the A Dude, GreenDixy, Rolfy for his comments about the noise and reflections that show up in the water. I know nothing about shaders programming but I believe that a skilled programmer will be able to solve this problem, because if not, a game like Far Cry could never exist.

But what about the entities Physics in the water, too much needs to be improved or you will have to put invisible fences to prevent the player throw something into the water, but that does not make sense!

I think another important issue to fix is concerning to the some weapons recoil and fire rate, after all this is a fps game engine!

I want to believe that shortly all of these issues will be resolved by the TGC team and the FPSC X9 will be much better.

Thank you guys!

All the best.
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Cyborg ART
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Posted: 6th Nov 2010 15:15
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Quote: "a. First of all, I apologize if I'm making some mistake, but a think some weapons are showing a recoil effect a bit exaggerated or too much realistic, eg UZI, Tommy gun, MP40, Vickers. I don't know if there are other with this feature.Also UZI fire rate are very slow

"


Will take a closer look at this soon. Tell me if you find anything more. And if you want you could post this in the bug thread for the weapons (click my signature) so they are gathered at on place.

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Johnski
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Posted: 6th Nov 2010 16:45
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Hey Guys its me syko! I was wondering how do you turn bloom down because my eyes turned to jelly when i looked at it. Lol. And 1 more thing how do i edit the hight of the water! Thanks guys





"WHO WANTS CHOWDER!"

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Bigsnake
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Posted: 6th Nov 2010 17:11
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Quote: "We cant really expect this to work straight out of the box as is."


Which is what everyone doesn't understand

This is a beta, not a version that Lee has a checklist of things he needs to do.

Windows 7, Amd Athlon 7750 Black Editon (64 bit,3ghz + Dual Core), ATI Readon HD 4870 1gb Edition, 4gb Ram.
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uman
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Posted: 7th Nov 2010 01:03 Edited at: 7th Nov 2010 15:37
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I would agree that the weapons have far too much recoil. Even given that it might be realistic in real life it makes gameplay in FPSC difficult especially when you often have enemies which kinda dance and hop around quite a lot.



250 seamless textures : http://www.umedia.co.uk
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Cyborg ART
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Posted: 7th Nov 2010 10:44
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Is it the animation or the AirMod recoil? The later would be easy to change yourself to your likning.

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FredP
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Posted: 7th Nov 2010 15:04
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Quote: "I would agree that the weapons have far too much recoil."

I agree too.
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Cyborg ART
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Posted: 7th Nov 2010 15:07
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Quote: "Quote: "I would agree that the weapons have far too much recoil."
I agree too. "


Again, is it the animation or the AirMod recoil?

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Arseny
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Posted: 7th Nov 2010 15:43
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I like the recoil, it's good feature.It so because my favorite game is ''Operation Flashpoint'' maybe?
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uman
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Posted: 7th Nov 2010 16:06 Edited at: 7th Nov 2010 16:08
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Quote: "Again, is it the animation or the AirMod recoil?"


Excuse my ignorance, but how would we know which it is?

All I know is that the weapon kick upwards is too great and does not restore back to its original position quickly enough by which time an enemy has often hopped around to another position, making it difficult to keep the weapon on target. One has to re align onto the target after each bullet is fired if you like and with a weapon that has rapid fire then one is constantly off target. As said that might be quite realistic in real life but in FPSC we as humans have no way of applying force to a weapon to compensate for the kick upwards (recoil if you like) as we would have in real life where we can apply the weight and force needed to hold and manage a weapon and keep it on target by skill, knowledge and experience of weapon handling. Those things are removed so the computer has absolute control. On fire it does what it does and the enemy does what it does. We have little or no control over those things other than play catch up with the weapon and enemy.

Thankfully they dont have much that resembles intelligence. FPSC enemies and gameplay is nothing like real life so the weapons need to match that and have less activity.

A little non exagerated weapon movement when the player walks and a little weapon movement to simulated gunfire when fired would suffice. There are many instances in games where player weapon sway and movement in shooting action is way over the top seemingly just for the sake of it and not tailored with the human player in mind. Of course every persons computer is different and there may be differences there in what users experience in feedback.

When at idle a players movement can be often be forgotten when there should still be a little sway with sound to simulate breathing. In this instance in FPSC as a FPS that means the weapon of course.

I dare say all of this could be done by end users if they have the desire which many wont, but if you have defaults at all on stock items out of the box they might as well be sensible.



250 seamless textures : http://www.umedia.co.uk
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Cyborg ART
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Posted: 7th Nov 2010 16:53
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Quote: "Quote: "Again, is it the animation or the AirMod recoil?"

Excuse my ignorance, but how would we know which it is?

"


Wasn't meant to sound hard. But its easier to fix if people try to explain instead of just mention a bug.

AirMod controls how much recoil there is etc. So if the screen(crosshair) moves too much then its easy to fix via gunspec. Take a look yourself and see if you can find a good value, then I could send the updated gunspecs to Lee to integrate into the next beta.

If its just the gun that moves all over the place, not the screen, then I need to fix the animations.

Thanks for pointing out this error.

I couldn't figure out if you were talking about the stock weapons or weapons overall in the rest of your post. But if it is, I can see if there is anything I can do.



And for everyone:
Please, if you find a bug or just something annoying with the new stock weapons. Post in the stock weapons bug thread (click my signature)

Thanks!

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uman
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Posted: 7th Nov 2010 16:56
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V1.08 Beta 3

I get error messages when trying to open levels when FPSC crashes. See attached.

Error message attached say Levels might be too large - I already cut them in half from V.1.0 sizes.



250 seamless textures : http://www.umedia.co.uk
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uman
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Posted: 7th Nov 2010 17:00 Edited at: 7th Nov 2010 17:01
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Cyborg ART,

Its the actual weapon I meant - the crosshair I dont get time to see.

The new updated stock weapons I meant - weapon pack ones I use seem to be the same as they always have been.

I am sure some people will like them anyway. I just found them a bit much and would not be able to use the stock ones as I could not shoot anything - well not without some luck.

Hope that helps.

Kind Regards



250 seamless textures : http://www.umedia.co.uk
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Scene Commander
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Posted: 7th Nov 2010 17:01
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@Uman

That's interesting, because although I haven't experienced that on BETA 3, but as I mentioned I have when compiling the source. However, this suggests that this is a global problem with Beta 3.

http://jimjamsgames.yolasite.com
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Cyborg ART
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Posted: 7th Nov 2010 18:31
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Quote: "Its the actual weapon I meant - the crosshair I dont get time to see.
"


I am sorry but I can't figure out what you mean

Take a look at this part of the gunspec from the mossberg


This is the part which defines how the recoil should act. Try setting recoilyreturn to something like 98 or maybe even 100.
Maybe lower the recoily, or even uncomment it.

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uman
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Posted: 7th Nov 2010 19:26
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Cyborg ART,

At the moment I cant open levels with V.1.08 Beta 3 so I will have to wait for an update. Nothing I can do at the moment.

FPSC is dead



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Hockeykid
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Posted: 7th Nov 2010 19:33
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Quote: "At the moment I cant open levels with V.1.08 Beta 3 so I will have to wait for an update. Nothing I can do at the moment."


If any of your levels use stock media send it over so I can give it a test and try and weed out this bug.

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BlackFox
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Posted: 7th Nov 2010 19:54
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Quote: "If any of your levels use stock media send it over so I can give it a test and try and weed out this bug."


Speaking of this sending of levels with stock media...

We had this discussion in the migration thread a while back. As I recall, we were discussing how we could not build past the five level mark. One of the things we have noticed since FPSC v1.17 is the fact we can save a level, but can't load that saved level. We also have the same issue in FPSC v1.18 beta whichever...

For example, we have our WW2 game development. We had the first game in the series completed but could not build past the fifth level. So we scrapped a two year project and started it from scratch using FPSC v1.17. Using both stock WW2 media and custom media, we still have this same issue of being able to save but not load.

Now, since we have many developments rolling, we tried the same on our SciFi series. We discovered that the SciFi had no issues at all- we can save, and load a saved game. Everything works as it should in both v1.17 and v1.18. The SciFi also uses both custom media as well as the stock SciFi. The WW2 game series has us stumped. We've even had to create mini-level "save points" in between levels just so the player can be able to load a saved game.

Now we realize that we are in a minority (developers using this product for our commercial endeavors), but it would be great if someone in the development section might be able to explain why this would be.

- BlackFox

RPG Mod- Create a world full of adventure
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Pirate Myke
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Posted: 7th Nov 2010 20:16 Edited at: 7th Nov 2010 20:17
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Has anybody else noticed this in the map editor.

Bring in an animated dynamic entity. ( mine has is character set.)
Take off the effect.
left click on the entity and you can see the animation in the map editor.

I like this new feature.

Nothing but coffee in my veins
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Brunopark09
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Posted: 7th Nov 2010 21:01
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Quote: "Has anybody else noticed this in the map editor.

Bring in an animated dynamic entity. ( mine has is character set.)
Take off the effect.
left click on the entity and you can see the animation in the map editor.

I like this new feature."


I noticed that and liked too

SCI FI MEDIA IS NEVER ENOUGH!
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FredP
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Posted: 7th Nov 2010 21:47
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I commented out the airmod settings you said and the gun animations were right on so I would say the recoil issue is due to the airmod settings.I've been playing around with the colt .45 if that helps any.
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defiler
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Posted: 7th Nov 2010 22:40
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Just realized the particles thing has the ability to make it play the animation or not. Thank You!

Limitless Box studios current project: Lost Contact

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uman
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Posted: 7th Nov 2010 23:15
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hockeykid,

After much ado I got FPSC opening my levels. Took a reinstall + multiple attempts at opening levels and restarting FPSC and eventually Crashed my computer. After another reboot I got it working. Seems to be quite unstable anyway and very agressive on the system. My fps is down around minus 15fps - minus 30fps. I have average of about 23fps or less now.




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Hockeykid
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Posted: 8th Nov 2010 01:34
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Quote: "hockeykid,

After much ado I got FPSC opening my levels. Took a reinstall + multiple attempts at opening levels and restarting FPSC and eventually Crashed my computer. After another reboot I got it working. Seems to be quite unstable anyway and very agressive on the system. My fps is down around minus 15fps - minus 30fps. I have average of about 23fps or less now."


Hi Uman, did you have higher FPS with the previous betas?

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uman
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Posted: 8th Nov 2010 17:28
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Seems to be a marked decrease in fps in this one in particular Beta 3. Consistent to all levels. Something in the order of minus 15 to 20 fps.

As said my average speeds are around 23fps perhaps a little more, fluctuating.

I am measuring at level start here. I had previous speeds of around 50fps in some previous levels.

The fps is now rather more constant and fixed near the lower speed and never goes much higher AI enemies Alive or dead. Roughly speaking the mean average is just lower in this version.

Thats the best I can remember about the earlier versions sorry. But this one is certainly slower by quite a bit at least for me.

Trouble is FPSC seems to be constantly fluctuating between vesrions and always has. Some kind of stability would be good with a stable, consistent fps so developers know what they have to work with. 23 fps or 50 at least one can then have benchmark to work with. Better still 30fps consistent fps is all thats needed 50 is a waste and fluctuations up and down uneeded. I know "its easier said than done". I am well aware of that and how difficult what you do is but it would be nice to have.

I would not worry about it from my point of view if others are not reporting speed issues as I might even be something my end affecting this version who knows? I have however been testing versions long enough since EA version to see the trends in the same levels that I have that have existed since then with no major changes to them. Well I broke some up in half but thats about it.

I was just reporting how I found it. I would not worry about it just based on my findings and I would not want to hold you up from the important work you are doing. Who knows V118 Beta 4 may just be better again unless you suspect differently. I would not know from one to the next until I try them. If you are not getting reports from others of lower fps in Beta 3 I would just move on and I will test the next one.



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Scene Commander
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Posted: 8th Nov 2010 17:49 Edited at: 8th Nov 2010 17:58
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I know I do go on a bit about performance, but I've noticed a general drop in speed of around 10-25fps since V1.17 and I don't think I'm alone, I can only speak from my point of view, but I think a lot of people who say they are getting good FPS are running on top end machines.

FPSC could, just about produce a game the quality of say, medal of honour allied assault, a game from 2002 as it stands, although it would be pressed for some of the outdoor scenes and the AI (Numbers of rather than intelligence). But unlike MOHAA FPSC would require much better hardware, certainly circa 2008 and for shadows, possibly newer. So, yes, performance is a major issue. If I were to pick up a game case and read the required specs for it to run and then find I was playing most FPSC games I've seen (and this isn't aimed at peoples work, just what is actually achievable) I'd be pretty disappointed.

Sorry to go on about this, but I feel very strongly about it.

http://jimjamsgames.yolasite.com
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Cyborg ART
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Joined: 14th Jan 2007
Location: Sweden - Sthlm
Posted: 8th Nov 2010 18:42
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Quote: "I commented out the airmod settings you said and the gun animations were right on so I would say the recoil issue is due to the airmod settings.I've been playing around with the colt .45 if that helps any. "


Thanks for testing!
The current AirMod was added just for the sake of it (or how you say it), mostly to show that the stock weapons actually has ironsights etc.
But as for all assets its all up to the enduser (the creator of the game) how just their weapons sould act.

I will try to tone down the recoil on all weapons a little. If someone has made a goodlooking change of the recoil (or anything else with the weapon) I would love to take a look

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