Sorry your browser is not supported!

You are using an outdated browser that does not support modern web technologies, in order to use this site please update to a new browser.

Browsers supported include Chrome, FireFox, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer 10+ or Microsoft Edge.

DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Dark Basic Elite - A Question

Author
Message
Mobiius
Valued Member
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Feb 2003
Location: The Cold North
Posted: 31st Aug 2012 14:14
Link
I say ditch the Dark Basic name and put all these features into AppGameKit and make it cross platform.

Then, it'll be awesome.

I live for video games! (And beers, and football, and cars!)
See what I live for here: [url]http:\\www.TeamDefiant.co.uk[/url]
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Ranietz
AGK Gold Backer
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Sep 2004
Location: Norway
Posted: 31st Aug 2012 23:25
Link
I haven't read all the comments but I agree with thoose who wants to merge DBPro and AppGameKit into one product. AppGameKit is allready a DBPro light with multiplatform support.
One less product for TGC to develop means more time to develop the other products...
Back to top
Profile PM
Peter Parker
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 17th Apr 2009
Location:
Posted: 1st Sep 2012 12:21
Link
As I understand, AppGameKit runs in a virtual machine. DBPro is compiled into machine code and calls the necessary routines from the included DLLs. We are all suffering from speed loss with DBPro depending on the complexity of a scene. I don't want to have interpreted code, I want the fastest code possible, without having to deal with C or C++ because I´m a hobby programmer. So please Lee, don't merge DBPro into AGK. Let this be two independent programming languages.
Back to top
Profile PM
MrValentine
AGK Backer
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Dec 2010
Playing: FFVII
Posted: 1st Sep 2012 12:38
Link
Quote: "Peter Parker

As I understand, AppGameKit runs in a virtual machine. DBPro is compiled into machine code and calls the necessary routines from the included DLLs. We are all suffering from speed loss with DBPro depending on the complexity of a scene. I don't want to have interpreted code, I want the fastest code possible, without having to deal with C or C++ because I´m a hobby programmer. So please Lee, don't merge DBPro into AGK. Let this be two independent programming languages."




Back to top
Profile PM
mistsnake
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Apr 2010
Location: Inside the matrix
Posted: 1st Sep 2012 16:28
Link
apart from that, portable devices do NOT have the power to compete graphically with a pc, therefore if db was merged with agk you'd suffer a speed decrease and lesser ability, remember there are sacrifices for portability, do you want a singular portable but slow exe or the speed to produce games beyond say what a 3ds can?
Back to top
Profile PM
Dar13
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th May 2008
Location: Microsoft VisualStudio 2010 Professional
Posted: 1st Sep 2012 17:42
Link
Quote: "apart from that, portable devices do NOT have the power to compete graphically with a pc, therefore if db was merged with agk you'd suffer a speed decrease and lesser ability, remember there are sacrifices for portability, do you want a singular portable but slow exe or the speed to produce games beyond say what a 3ds can?"

That's reliant on the platform of course. AppGameKit exes scale up based on the hardware they're run just like any other executable. It's not restricted to a certain platform's performance in any way.

If OpenGL and DX11 were on equal footing, I'd say go ahead and integrate OpenGL3+ into AppGameKit and that'll be fine but they aren't. DX11 still has features that OpenGL3+ doesn't have, plus DX11 has more support and professional documentation than OpenGL does.

Follow WTLD's progress on Twitter
Git repository for WasTeLanD
Back to top
Profile PM Email
MrValentine
AGK Backer
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Dec 2010
Playing: FFVII
Posted: 1st Sep 2012 18:28
Link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenGL_vs_DirectX

This article proves OpenGL is and always has been dependent on the developer almost entirely, so the saying of OGL being faster than DX is entirely fruitless...

There are interesting links at the bottom too, I strongly advise everyone read this article and then fly off onto the linked information, especially the one on Direct3D and read up on what DirectX really is and how its built upon itself...

Here is an interesting piece on the Direct3D page...

Quote: "
The Direct3D 11 runtime is able to run on Direct3D 9 and 10.x-class hardware and drivers,[15] expanding the ​D3D10_FEATURE_LEVEL1​ functionality first introduced in Direct3D 10.1 runtime.[14] Feature levels 9_1, 9_2 and 9_3 encapsulate various features of popular Direct3D 9 cards, and feature levels 10_0 and 10_1 refer to Direct3D 10 and 10.1 respectively; each upper level is a strict superset of a lower level[18]. Feature levels allow developers to unify the rendering pipeline under Direct3D 11 API and make use of API improvements such as better resource management and multithreading even on entry-level cards, though advanced features such as new shader models and rendering stages will only be exposed on up-level hardware.
"


Back to top
Profile PM
sovr
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 2nd Jan 2010
Location: USA
Posted: 1st Sep 2012 18:54
Link
isn't there some form of directx in agk? One time I tried running agk on a old computer and it said something about directx type. It has been a long time, so I don't really remember.

sov the game creator!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Dar13
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th May 2008
Location: Microsoft VisualStudio 2010 Professional
Posted: 2nd Sep 2012 00:15
Link
Quote: "isn't there some form of directx in agk? One time I tried running agk on a old computer and it said something about directx type. It has been a long time, so I don't really remember."

No. AppGameKit uses OpenGL as the rendering API.

Follow WTLD's progress on Twitter
Git repository for WasTeLanD
Back to top
Profile PM Email
PeteyM5
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Feb 2009
Location: Buffalo NY USA
Posted: 3rd Sep 2012 07:16
Link
I have been rethinking about some of my earlier comments. After experimenting with Irrlicht. Make a version of Dark Basic that is multi-platform where it would not be limited to Windows. However I am still going to maintain saying simplify Dark Basic by phasing out some of the older/obsolete commands and make it possible to write programs with less code.

I am still going to say ELSEIF is something many programmers want to see. There are certain advantages with a IF:ELSEIF:ELSE:ENDIF structure over SELECT:CASE is that you can have conjuctions with AND, OR, NOT, (even XOR).



VB.NET has AndAlso and OrElse, which does not check the second condition if the first one fails. Sometimes you might have a null object or something that produces an error for the second condition. To me, if the first condition is false with an AND why should the programming language check the second condition? Not sure exactly how OrElse works, but I don't think I ever used it.
Back to top
Profile PM
mistsnake
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Apr 2010
Location: Inside the matrix
Posted: 3rd Sep 2012 12:52
Link
you're performing a check or rather the program is on whether the first is true or not to continue on - i don't see any benefit of that over your code manually doing the bitwise op to say whether it continues or not
Back to top
Profile PM
Dar13
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th May 2008
Location: Microsoft VisualStudio 2010 Professional
Posted: 4th Sep 2012 00:22
Link
Quote: "Make a version of Dark Basic that is multi-platform where it would not be limited to Windows."

That would be AGK.

Quote: "I am still going to say ELSEIF is something many programmers want to see. There are certain advantages with a IF:ELSEIF:ELSE:ENDIF structure over SELECT:CASE is that you can have conjuctions with AND, OR, NOT, (even XOR)."

Are you saying that you would want to get rid of SELECT:CASE in favor of IF:ESLEIF? Or keep both? I'd actually rather SELECT:CASE be more like a C SWITCH statement where you can 'fall' through the cases if you want a range(unless that's possible now, I don't remember).

Follow WTLD's progress on Twitter
Git repository for WasTeLanD
Back to top
Profile PM Email
PeteyM5
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Feb 2009
Location: Buffalo NY USA
Posted: 4th Sep 2012 17:24 Edited at: 4th Sep 2012 17:26
Link
Keep both Select Case and IF:ELSEIF:ELSE:ENDIF. Just about every other version of basic has a similar structure. The IF structure can evaluate complex calculations and conjunctions where Select Case usually just checks values of one variable. Not sure if the Dark Basic version supports ranges, no mention of it in the help files. Should have stuff like n1 to n2, [is] <, [is] <=, [is] >, [is] =>. Can be slightly different from the VB structure where DB version is:

Select X
Case 0
Case 1 to 3
Case >= 4
EndSelect

Use the IF structure for more complicated logic that requires multiple variables, arithmetic with conditions, and use with (AND, OR, NOT, XOR)

I had a chance to look up what "ORELSE" does in VB.NET. If the first condition is true, it skips directly after the "THEN". Useful if your doing somthing that will cause an error in the 2nd condition like [ IF N=0 ORELSE X/N < 3 THEN ] [ IF N > 0 ANDALSO X/N < 5 ] where N being at 0 will cause a divide by zero error. VB.NET checks both conditions with AND/OR/XOR. Not sure how Dark Basic handles these things, but if the first condition trips, just skip over past the "OR" 2nd condition.
Back to top
Profile PM
Duffer
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Feb 2003
Location: chair
Posted: 8th Sep 2012 13:42 Edited at: 8th Sep 2012 13:55
Link
@ Lee, TGC,

So, in light of the Freedom Engine (will use, count on it) and AppGameKit (bought) soon at 1.08,:-

DBPro -

Will you now 'cap it' off with a final upgrade / bug fix???

Dark Basic Elite - An Answer -

So what is it? Is it a 'Yes', a 'No' or a 'Will have to wait'?

Perhaps a "Dark Basic Elite - The Answer" thread...

Rehashing / summarising a lot of what has been said, it would have to be a serious step up from 'basic' DBPro with a superb IDE ('Balid' esque) and all the essential 'add on' plugins (or their functionality) within the DBElite. I put core elements down before, and on reading the thread above:-

- Core and System Commands
- Multi Core
- Also compression and optimising code
- DirectX and OpenGL??? when compiled
- Compile to CDec etc dll plugins - usable by DBElite and DBPro? - maybe identifying a particular type of Procedure(s) as flagged to compile to dll? Creation of basic supporting ini/help files for dlls created from DB Elite?
- All the trimmings with things like Arrays and Types including the loading and saving of multi dimensional / multi type arrays and arrays within types
- V flexible Linked List commands, saving and loading thereof
- V flexible sorting commands for arrays, linked lists
- Memory Bank / Memblock Commands
- Enhanced / extended Input commands covering all the latest
- Enhanced / extended Maths commands
- Enhanced / extended String commands including Field and Token commands, comprehensive (this is what I'd mean by enhanced/extended) including things like RTrim$, Insert$, Encrypt$
- Enhanced / extended File i/o etc commands including file encryption and zip stuff
- Enhanced / extended Database and INI, XML and NodeTree commands
- Enhanced / extended LUA commands
- Enhanced / extended 2D commands (inc things like Fill, and ImageKit type commands)
- Enhanced / extended font commands covering also shadow, underline,emboss, etc
- Full Windows GUI, Table and Dialog selections commands
- Enhanced / extended bitmap font commands
- Custom HiGraphics GUI commands - rather like TopGUI
- Direct 3D draw commands or equivalent (if OpenGL)
- Sounds and 3D Sound commands, Music commands - compatability with things like OGG etc
- Voice Sync / DarkVoice easque
- Fast Sprite and Animated Sprite commands, general and pixel collision / support for spriter style commands etc
- 2D Physics
- 2D/3D AI Commands
- Simplified but also then extended internet / multiplayer command set
- Multi Camera and Lighting Commands
- Shaders - and simplified commands for effective common style shaders inc water, sky etc
- Advanced Terrain commands including real time modification, paint, spherical, streaming, application of shaders and physics etc
- Enhanced / extended texture / materials commands /TextureMAX style commands too
- Enhanced / extended 3d Object commands, limb commands, 3dmaths
- Environmental / Sky (A DarkCLOUDS series of commands but integrated with the rest) / World type commands
- Enhanced 3d Object animation
- 3d Physics commands, inc cloth, smoke, fluid, ragdoll etc etc
- Enhanced / fast 3d Object collision / limb collision and raytracing commands inc pick of object, limb, vertices
- Simplified / easy 3d object / limb/ poly modification/vert paint commands
- With 3d, occlusion, imposters, etc etc optimisations as standard
- I've probably missed loads!

Looking at the above, it's potentially a HUGE undertaking ???

What say you Lee / TGC? Tenable?

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Xeridox
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 19th May 2003
Playing: Scrap Mechanic
Posted: 11th Sep 2012 02:44
Link
DBElite! Yes!

I'm almost 34 and still love DBPro. My yahoo is dbprocoder even...guess I'll have to change it to dbelitecoder lol

Yes, $99 is a fair price, especially if all dbpro's commands work without having to rewrite my current code. That was kind of a pain migrating from db classic to pro back in the day...

Give the programmer more control over how to handle transparent objects...I should be able to put all kinds of transparent faces and be able to see all of them through any of them, even if they are part of the same object, limb, or whatever. Please??

Phenom - MP FPS WIP - With bot support, even online!
Official Website -> http://xeridox.com
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
PeteyM5
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Feb 2009
Location: Buffalo NY USA
Posted: 12th Sep 2012 16:13
Link
Something else I noticed missing from the DBPro core are optional parameters on functions...

Function MyFunction(A, B, C, D)
Endfuction returnvalue

MyFunction will always have 4 parameters throughout the program.

could either be
Function MyFunction(A, B, C, Opt D)
Function MyFunction(A, B, C, Optional D)
Function MyFunction(A, B, C) Optional (D,E,F)

This would make it a lot easier on creating custom functions inside our programs.

Not sure if Lee Bamber is trying to make Darkbasic different from VB6 and VB.NET. But my last suggestion is certainly different. Personally believe VB.NET may be getting way over bloated. Going from VB6 to VB.NET required more code to do the same thing. If The Game Creators keep to where someone can make applications with less time coding, they can attract even professional programmers.
Back to top
Profile PM
Phaelax
DBPro Master
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Apr 2003
Location: Metropia
Posted: 12th Sep 2012 18:47
Link
That's called function overloading, and I agree that would be nice to have.

The main thing I'd like is to have arrays contained within my UDTs.

"You're not going crazy. You're going sane in a crazy world!" ~Tick
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
DigitalFury
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 30th Jul 2010
Location: United States
Posted: 12th Sep 2012 22:07
Link
I'd buy that as soon as it released. I've been waiting for a DirectX update for a very long time. It is much needed. I was planning on porting to a new updated engine for the lack of DBP being updated to the most current directx. Now that you guys are actually going to release this I'll stick with DBP cuz it is being updated.

Now there have been people who have switched to another language because of the lack of DirectX update. It was something like unity and maybe with this release you can bring them all back.

Dark Basic Pro is prob the best in terms of providing extras. I would like to see an update using Nav Meshes because it has become the latest standard for games. Physics was fixed and updated to what it should be which is great.

If the plugins could be included standard with DBP that would make it more appealing like something like unity but considering TGC worked out a deal with every individual plugin's creator I don't see that happening.

Just a few thoughts. I support this!

DigitalFury


Facebook
Cheap Plugins
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Kezzla
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 21st Aug 2008
Location: Where beer does flow and men chunder
Posted: 13th Sep 2012 08:34
Link
I would also like support for more compressed video formats.

at the moment the only small video files that work are .mov and they require the user to install quicktime.

.wmv and .mp4 would be nice formats to support.

Back to top
Profile PM
gbison
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 15th Dec 2010
Location: USA
Posted: 13th Sep 2012 08:50 Edited at: 13th Sep 2012 08:53
Link
Hello all,

I haven't been on here in quite sometime. I got my start in game development with Dark Basic years back. I will be the first to admit, I love the TGC community, would love to come back to the community. When I seen this thread I knew I had to write something. I left a long time back for the use of another engine that was faster and gave me more power in both tools and rendering. I did that as a business decision as I run a small Indie studio which produces casual games. We chose Torque2D as our weapon of choice for these ventures, but only because DBP lacked the tools, utility and structure we needed.

Many engine makers are going to royalty based(UDK, Unity) or even free open source model(Torque3D). You have a dedicated community here, so getting folks that are current to jump on board probably won't be to hard. That being said, trying to pull folks in from other places may prove to be a bit more difficult with the price tag.

Personally, I will pay it. Why? Because I have been in a lot of communities in the game world and always find myself coming back to TGC and checking up on things in hopes of something that can spark a new fire that will allow me to return to Dark Basic. Your interaction, dedication and performance within the community is what makes it as great as it is, other vendors should learn from your example. I think if done properly though, DBPE maybe the answer to that for many.

If you work to include and fix many of the things that seem to make it fall short, you will have a beast on your hands. Enhanced rendering, better shaders, HDR, SSAO, MUCH BETTER NETWORKING, Database access, Improved 2D functions and handling, OOP(at least UDT's that can hold a function, class/method style), ALL the matrix1 utilities as well as more functions to help Indies and hobbiest alike perform tasks that are repetitive at will, a true API if I may. Even as far as a tool-set for the future. This however maybe more than you wish to get into but many folks have given fine examples of whats needed. If you touch on even a fair amount of these items I think you will turn out a stellar product possibly retiring the old. Just my 2cents! Anyway, I'll be anxious to see the end result, good luck!

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled, was to convince the world he didn't exist."
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Mobiius
Valued Member
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Feb 2003
Location: The Cold North
Posted: 13th Sep 2012 13:15
Link
I want them to finish one project before moving onto another.
DBP was never *finished* then they went off and made AGK.
AGK was never *finished* then they went off and made FE.
DBElite will just leave AppGameKit and FE *unfinished* and will be yet another half arsed language full of bugs which the community will have to fix themselves.

Don't get me wrong, I love TGCs products, I just with they'd finish one before moving onto something else. (Finish meaning no bugs, ALL advertised features working or removed, etc)

I live for video games! (And beers, and football, and cars!)
See what I live for here: [url]http:\\www.TeamDefiant.co.uk[/url]
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Seppuku Arts
Moderator
20
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Aug 2004
Location: Cambridgeshire, England
Posted: 13th Sep 2012 13:24
Link
What would be an interesting direction is to just add these features to AppGameKit, the language is close enough to DBP that any DBP user won't find it hard to adapt. In fact, I'm finding it really easy. As I think you make a fair point Mobiius.

However, FE is AppGameKit and from what I understand to add anything new to FE they need to do it in AppGameKit first. Unless I misunderstood.

Back to top
Profile PM Website
Mobiius
Valued Member
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Feb 2003
Location: The Cold North
Posted: 13th Sep 2012 19:26
Link
Quote: "However, FE is AppGameKit and from what I understand to add anything new to FE they need to do it in AppGameKit first. Unless I misunderstood."

This may be true, but time spent developing the html5 part of the website takes time away from delivering on promises made before AppGameKit was released.

I live for video games! (And beers, and football, and cars!)
See what I live for here: [url]http:\\www.TeamDefiant.co.uk[/url]
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Mage
Valued Member
18
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Feb 2007
Location:
Posted: 14th Sep 2012 20:00
Link
I would buy it.

Back to top
Profile PM
W h i t e y
12
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Sep 2012
Location:
Posted: 18th Sep 2012 16:27
Link
LEE, I have been a fan of DB for about a decade now and I am sure I remember you back in the days of Amiga Amos. Might be wrong.

ONLY ONE MAJOR THING WRONG WITH DB? BECAUSE YOU CANT CHANGE THE ICONS PROPERLY PEOPLE ALWAYS KNOW YOU'VE USED IT, HOW CAN YOU GET A GAME PUBLISHED COMMERCIALLY WHEN THIS IS THE CASE?

Whitey
Back to top
Profile PM
MrValentine
AGK Backer
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Dec 2010
Playing: FFVII
Posted: 18th Sep 2012 19:10
Link
Quote: "W h i t e y "


Erm, DBC or DBP? in DBP I have no issue changing the icon, did you look in the application settings and load in an .ico or .bmp file? and then compiled and move the exe out of the project folder?



Back to top
Profile PM
Mobiius
Valued Member
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Feb 2003
Location: The Cold North
Posted: 18th Sep 2012 19:11
Link
Quote: "ONLY ONE MAJOR THING WRONG WITH DB? BECAUSE YOU CANT CHANGE THE ICONS PROPERLY PEOPLE ALWAYS KNOW YOU'VE USED IT, HOW CAN YOU GET A GAME PUBLISHED COMMERCIALLY WHEN THIS IS THE CASE?"

Use third party icon editor software. I use IcoFX for my icons.

(And lay off the caps! lol)

I live for video games! (And beers, and football, and cars!)
See what I live for here: [url]http:\\www.TeamDefiant.co.uk[/url]
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Daniel wright 2311
User Banned
Posted: 18th Sep 2012 20:03
Link
He still has not said if this will be done or not, no answer form him at all in all of this thread, would like to know if he made his mind up on it or not.

my signature keeps being erased by a mod So this is my new signature.
Back to top
Profile
Duffer
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Feb 2003
Location: chair
Posted: 18th Sep 2012 22:00
Link
All we can do is hope....

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
Back to top
Profile PM Email
nonZero
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 10th Jul 2011
Location: Dark Empire HQ, Otherworld, Silent Hill
Posted: 18th Sep 2012 23:32 Edited at: 18th Sep 2012 23:34
Link
Okay, this thread is waaay too long to read through and I'm lazy so excuse me if this has been said before but:

Return the variable's memory address with &.
Arrays in UDTS.
Support for more model formats.
Support for all major tracker formats (audio)
Fix the #INCLUDE bug - Please!!!
Better help files as some of them really are a mess tbh (I'd even be willing volunteer help where I could with examples, editing, formatting, code highlighting, etc. with the docs).
Optimization for small, non-graphical apps would be great.

I would pay $99 USD for DBElite but it would really have to perform well and work smoothly and it would have to really offer me more than DBPro, not just in terms of pretty functions, but in terms of giving me absolute control over memory management, better performance and easier integration with Windows dlls. In other words "Under the hood" is the biggest thing. I want to see DBElite's properties and go "Holy crap! I'm gonna sell my phone so I can buy this!" and for that, I think DBElite would have to have a whole new compiler, new core dlls and a nonZero-friendly editor like this:

Hahaha, just nostalgia kicking in, don't mind me.

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
MrValentine
AGK Backer
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Dec 2010
Playing: FFVII
Posted: 19th Sep 2012 03:01
Link
That IDE is fantastic...

I hope now that FDE is launched we can maybe get some light onto DBE at some point...



Back to top
Profile PM
Mobiius
Valued Member
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Feb 2003
Location: The Cold North
Posted: 19th Sep 2012 14:46
Link
I remember QBasic. I used QB7.1 which had a compiler for proper applications and svga support for resolutions greater than 640x480, and colour depths greater than 16bit..

Sweet nostalgia.

I live for video games! (And beers, and football, and cars!)
See what I live for here: [url]http:\\www.TeamDefiant.co.uk[/url]
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
mistsnake
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Apr 2010
Location: Inside the matrix
Posted: 19th Sep 2012 15:01
Link
qbasic was the cut down free interpreter, quickbasic was the 'enhanced' compiler version
Back to top
Profile PM
Mobiius
Valued Member
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 27th Feb 2003
Location: The Cold North
Posted: 19th Sep 2012 18:40
Link
Well there you go.

I live for video games! (And beers, and football, and cars!)
See what I live for here: [url]http:\\www.TeamDefiant.co.uk[/url]
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
PeteyM5
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Feb 2009
Location: Buffalo NY USA
Posted: 19th Sep 2012 18:42
Link
Isn't FreeBasic and XBasic based upon QBasic/QuickBasic with some extended commands that take advantage of higher resolutions, maybe sound cards? However believe they are DOS Based programming languages. Visual Basic 1-6 are the next products released by Microsoft, but is not backward compatible with QBasic/QuickBasic. Visual Basic.NET versions are not 100% backward compatible with older versions. Makes it a real pain in the ass if you want to port your programs to run over.

I hope Dark Basic Elite maintains backward compatibility over most of the commands. Only remove those commands that may be redundant, seldom used, or obsolete. Could also add a conversion tool to translate anything that is different.
Back to top
Profile PM
peterJBE
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 11th Mar 2008
Location: Belgium
Posted: 19th Sep 2012 19:35
Link
I would buy dark basic elite.
Back to top
Profile PM Email
WLGfx
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Nov 2007
Location: NW United Kingdom
Posted: 19th Sep 2012 19:39
Link
Thumbs up to nonZero...

Mental arithmetic? Me? (That's for computers) I can't subtract a fart from a plate of beans!
Warning! May contain Nuts!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
aerostudios
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th May 2009
Location: Oklahoma City OK (USA)
Posted: 19th Sep 2012 21:28
Link
Lee, I think it is a great idea. I personally do not believe in OOP. I really do not like writing anything using any .NET language because of the whole object oriented paradigm. I believe Microsoft jumped on the OOP train to beat out any future competition thinking that OOPS was the going to dominate the world. And so far, I guess with MS help, that has become a reality.
That it is why I use DBPro currently and will continue to do so. I love the language because it is preserving the BASIC language in the way it was intended. And $99 is very affordable for a langauge product such as DB. The only suggestion I would make is that the IDE be improved upon, as well as the debugger. Those 2 components leave a little to be desired. Mostly debugging is difficult, at least for me. I do however like the immediate mode of the Visual Studio IDEs. VB6 is really my forte and if MS hadn't tossed it aside in lieu of OOP, I would still be developing with that language in addition to DB. But the ability to set a breakpoint and then examine variables is of the utmost importance to me for debugging.
I am a fan and will definitely buy and promote any language product you devise. So, keep me in the loop to purchase!
Be sure and check my latest DB effort with TOWER CAB! ( www.towercab.com )
Back to top
Profile PM Website
jlahtinen
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 26th Oct 2009
Location: Finland
Posted: 20th Sep 2012 15:26
Link
Around £99/99€/99$ anytime.

Count me in, i've been waiting for this!
Back to top
Profile PM
Michael P
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Mar 2006
Location: London (UK)
Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 04:48 Edited at: 22nd Sep 2012 04:50
Link
Interesting idea.

But why do you need AppGameKit and DBPRO? Could you not just beef up AppGameKit so that it is as capable as DBPRO? It seems to me like you would have a fair amount of code duplication between the two projects.

But from my perspective, what DBPRO really lacks is object orientated programming. I imagine this isn't on the agenda though!

[edit]Skimming previous posts I see OOP was already mentioned. I love it so am obviously bias, but still you could make OOP optional to please both sides.

DarkNet - multiplayer plugin
Back to top
Profile PM Email
MrValentine
AGK Backer
14
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 5th Dec 2010
Playing: FFVII
Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 11:15
Link
I am wondering if there is any way we can help contribute to DBElite?

Be it;
Code
GUI
Assetts / Sample Media
Logo
Web-Site
Documentation

Should my abilities increase I would be more than happy to contribute where and whenever possible...

I have one thing for now to mention and that is, I refuse to use any Google services so that gdocs is out of the question...

Hope this helps us jump out of the When When What What loophole I imagine this thread is headed down...

If we show we want it and also show that we are willing to help... heck it might become a reality...

And as a contribution we contributors could be handed a cheap licence fee for the end product...

Win Win situation say ye not?

And I can see a handful of talented peeps in here that can easily contribute heavily to the reality...

I hope this sparks interest in that idea...

Back to top
Profile PM
Juggernaut
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Mar 2012
Location:
Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 11:55
Link
I guess they won't be coming up with this Elite thing until end of next year or so. He did not get much response from the community I guess.
Back to top
Profile PM
Duffer
22
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 9th Feb 2003
Location: chair
Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 12:25 Edited at: 22nd Sep 2012 12:26
Link
Quote: "He did not get much response from the community I guess. "


Surely Lee and TGC got enough.

I think it is, quite understandably, a matter of what pays when with 3+ developers.

You can see that in the email many got asking whether they would vote for FPS Creator 2 or not. I suspect there may actually be more long term money in a next gen FPS Creator than in a next gen basic programming language - I hope I'm wrong, but I suspect...

I suppose if we could only get the nod and an indication of likely timescales we could instead focus all our attention on development of and use of the AGK/FreedomEngine platform (with 3D).

'Bout time Lee/TGC came back and posted on this thread IMHO,,,,

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
Back to top
Profile PM Email
WLGfx
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 1st Nov 2007
Location: NW United Kingdom
Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 13:26
Link
@Duffer & MrValentine - Although it's unlikely that we'll get a response from TGC on this thread with regards to Dark Basic Elite but at least create a new thread with a list of the possibilities pointed out by the responses from this thread.

As well as the recent AppGameKit, Shoot Em Up Construction Kit, and the FE thingy (which I've not looked at yet), Dark Basic Elite is likely to be a very large project if re-started from scratch and not as some people expect, which is to expand on the original. I think MrValentine has probably the best idea at getting this off the ground and that's with the contributions based DBE. If DBE could be made closed source (invite only) to a group of coders then the project can start taking shape. Heck, if that was the case, I'd be more than very interested in jumping on board, even with my meager skills.

DBP is ideal for a lot of coders old and new, and even does what it says on the tin, "Creates Games!"

I for one wouldn't mind if there was no support for old plugins, they are written for Dark Basic Pro, nothing else. There are many out there already that would be able to re-code their old plugins to run with Dark Basic Elite easy enough. I'm aware that some of those plugin coders are not around anymore, that's unfortunate, but someone will be able to take up the task.

As for the list of features in the new Dark Basic Elite, then this thread and all the feedback will be a good place to start.

It already looks like a 50/50 split on both cross-platform and Object Orientated design. And that's just two out of the list.

If I had the time at the moment I'd sift through and make a complete list of requested and recommended features for the new Dark Basic Elite.

Good luck with this monstrous task TGC and Lee...

Mental arithmetic? Me? (That's for computers) I can't subtract a fart from a plate of beans!
Warning! May contain Nuts!
Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
science boy
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 3rd Oct 2008
Location:
Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 17:04 Edited at: 22nd Sep 2012 17:12
Link
as i am getting more frustrated with fpsc x10, but stick with it due to faster and looks nicer ( note my screen shot been no1 for ages ) I WOULD ALWAYS WELCOME CHANGE, I WOULD LIKE IT IF YOU USED DDS NORMAL AND SPEC MAPPING, and the sheders work properly, my entire media is x10 and i cant even make a game due to flaws in the textures and fx. so i will not want to go backwards, if you could do fpsc x11 i would pay 150 pounds for it, thats a sure thing. so hurry

A BIG GO ON LEE DO IT

P.S. this is a thread to ask a yes or no, not a debate to a few, which is blocking up the list of people. stop it

an unquenchable thirst for knowledge of game creation!!!
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Chris Tate
DBPro Master
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Aug 2008
Location: London, England
Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 17:28
Link
I personally (like many) have invested alot into DBPRO, and would appreciate support for old plugins; in a similar way I like my Windows upgrades to work with older software, and Visual Studio upgrades to work with older frameworks.

Flexibility would be appeciated.

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Dar13
17
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th May 2008
Location: Microsoft VisualStudio 2010 Professional
Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 21:59
Link
Quote: "Flexibility would be appeciated."

There also comes a point where backwards-compatibility actually detracts from the further development of the product. Of course, this is better decided from the developer's point of view, as they know the exact performance cost of the backwards compatibility in the new system/language.

Follow WTLD's progress on Twitter
Git repository for WasTeLanD
Back to top
Profile PM Email
Juggernaut
13
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 12th Mar 2012
Location:
Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 22:59
Link
Lee has got only 3 developers in his team and they are fighting on different fronts ? AppGameKit , U77 etc. ? Then there is very little hope of something elite will be worked upon .......
Back to top
Profile PM
Chris Tate
DBPro Master
16
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 29th Aug 2008
Location: London, England
Posted: 23rd Sep 2012 17:57
Link
Quote: "There also comes a point where backwards-compatibility actually detracts from the further development of the product. Of course, this is better decided from the developer's point of view, as they know the exact performance cost of the backwards compatibility in the new system/language."


True! The developer knows the exact performance cost of compatibility.

As I customer, I would have to ask myself 'Would it be more beneficial for me to buy DBPRO elite and adapt my source code to work with it; or am I better off sticking with what I already purchased, and continue working on my project with my plugins without having to spend more money'.

For others it will be a different question.

Ultimately I think what would be helpful; as Lee requested; is to have polls created to form a summarized outlook of what we generally want, for them to more easily establish a concensus, rather than a long list of wordy personal requests.

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
basjak
15
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 16th Apr 2010
Location: feel like signing up for mars
Posted: 23rd Sep 2012 18:00
Link
I only used dB pro for engineering project and it handled it very well. I think I made a reliable switch to agk regarding games making but dx11 is ready pltform where apps can be created and handled much better than agk. For game makers you can compare agk to dB pro but agk too is too little and wrong to compare with the graphics capability of dx9 and dx11.

Back to top
Profile PM Email Website
Back to top

Login to post a reply

Server time is: 2025-08-08 10:13:52
Your offset time is: 2025-08-08 10:13:52