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FPSC Classic Product Chat / FPS Creator Version 2

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KeithC
Senior Moderator
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Location: Michigan
Posted: 21st Sep 2012 21:21
A game like the top-down shooter Outbreak would be quite nice on a portable device.

-Keith

Omegamer
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Location: There
Posted: 21st Sep 2012 22:54 Edited at: 21st Sep 2012 22:55
If we'd have some awesome more features and FPSC 23 would still be as simple or a little be more complex than the first one... 50-100$ I would pay up to 500$ but I'm short on money.

My feature wishlist (I think most of them wouldn't be included but my perfect FPSC would look like that)

- DirectX11 support (DX9 too of course)
- Better Dark AI
- Dynamic Shadows
- Physix (is it even possible on DB? dunno)
- Terrain Editor
- Things like built in very basic inventories to do RPG-Shooters or stuff like that
- Coop
- FPI language with a huge amount of new commands
- Dual Wield in Vanilla?
- More accurate object placement
- Better MP ( Kill Cam, Ranks, Create-a-Class)

Thats what I'd love, even if I know its much to much but well dreams

EDIT: I would even try to spend more if donators would get somethign like a beta acces
Captain Coder
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
14
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Playing: Elite: Dangerous
Posted: 21st Sep 2012 22:57
Having not played with FPSC or been on the forum for several months, just the idea of getting into a big serious project with 1.19 (created a small mini-game with that for a B'day gift :p ) is tantalizing. FPSC-2 I think would be fantastic. While I did press "yes" for support, I only offered $10. Why? Well, originally it was because I'm pretty much broke right now. But, now that calmer heads have prevailed, it's because they haven't promised everything.

If they're just copying and pasting the code from one version of DBP to another, then no, I won't support it. If they plan to rewrite from the ground up, taking a completely fresh look at it without peeking over at the old code for cheats on how to code things, and integrate new things (namely those named above - I like what I read and I won't repeat them here), then I will support it and would be willing to pay for up to $120 if it comes with the above suggestions, and, in essence, better graphics. I've shown ideas to my friends and they all poke fun at the graphics. If we want to distribute our games, they need to look better. Not because graphics are everything, but because many game players think they are everything. I would really appreciate better shaders and all that good stuff. Without better GFX, my pay-price drops to about $80, because I expect a modern engine to be able to output such.


Quote: "I would love to contribute, but only if you guys stop sticking on Direct X9. What I mean is that you guys are great game engine developers, and it would be a shame if you guys didn't use the advantage of the newer direct X versions. There would be so many new possibilities.


I still have nightmares on how you guys gave up on direct X10 and continued with direct X9. I think that FPSC X10 could have been so bad-ass.


I might be just a boy, young and reckless. But my message to TGC is that if you guys are going to built an new FPSC, make sure to built it for the future and not just for today.


The gamecreators gave me the basics of game making with there awesome products like fpsc and dark basic. And I thank them for that. And I would always continue to buy stuff from them and be a member of this great forum."


This is one of the things I was talking about up above


Quote: "Do you think they may have their heads in the cloud? He He."


Was that a joke? Because I got it

Glad to be back,
Captain Coder

As a believer in Jesus Christ, I am trying to use my passion for game creation for His glory.
rolfy
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Posted: 21st Sep 2012 23:09 Edited at: 21st Sep 2012 23:12
I would definitely back this. Particularly as the current version has shown whats required and needs re-written from the ground up, its a great foundation for creating something truly awesome.

I can also see the user base expanding and the forum returning to being busy and active as it used to be, so you got my support.

You only have one life ... Abuse it well.
Grooovy!
17
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Location: Delray Beach, FL USA
Posted: 21st Sep 2012 23:31
Although I don't post here often, I bought my first TGC product back in 2004.

I had been a user of 3DGS and I have also used Unity and C4. However, for rapid prototyping, FPSC beats out everything.
The recent progress of the 1.20 beta has encouraged me to get back into FPSC, and I've been happy with my results so far, regardless of the "dated" feel of the engine (this point may be inconsequential if you make games that are actually fun to play...!)

I would back this project (even after buying X10) with $100 if the feature set is agreeable (others have stated their wishes elsewhere in this post, so I won't re-iterate).

If interest is high enough, I guess that TGC would produce a preliminary timeline so as devs would know how to schedule their own current and up-coming projects.

Regardless, I wish TGC the best of luck!
unfamillia
15
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Location: Preston, Lancashire
Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 00:27
As an old X10 user, i am sitting on the fence currently. I have given my support by clicking yes and selecting the the amount of money that i would pledge. But, as others have mentioned already, if this is going to happen, it needs to be serious and needs to be monitored. Otherwise they are wasting everyone's time and money again.

I have just installed a new SSD in my gaming rig; did i install X10? No......i installed X9. Only because of how well it is supported!

Don't let us down guys! there is a large helpful, willful and friendly community here all relying on TGC to stick to their word.

In a nut shell, I am interested, i would pledge money to help and i would buy a final copy.

Unfamillia

PS. if you could make it cross platform (as Mr Valentine states from a Facebook update) that would be ace; i have been looking for a way to make games for Android!

[url=www.touchoffear.webs.com][/url]
The Nerevar
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 00:47
Now what I'm look for is animated/non animated bullet tracers/ flak that if fully customizable.

Fulfilling the Nerevarine Prophecy, one trial at a time, because I... Am... The Nerevar!
bond1
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 02:47 Edited at: 22nd Sep 2012 02:56
Yes, I would support this with both my time and money.

I've used FPSC pretty much daily for like, seven years. Pretty rare for a piece of software. So how could I NOT support a new version!

SPECS: Intel Corei7 3770k, Nvidia GTX680, 16GB RAM, Win7 Pro
That Guy John
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 02:57
FPSC v2.. no.

Another re-branded product based on the core functionalities learned from developing FPSC. YES

And Here Is A Penguin:
FPSC OneSource [DeskTop App] - Bringing everything together into one.
Captain Coder
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
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Playing: Elite: Dangerous
Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 03:21
Bullet tracers is anothing thing I would love, particularly for sci-fi.

While I was doing the dishes earlier, a few thoughts occured to me:

1) In light of what happened to X10, if TGC is going to it's user base for money to fund the project, do they really have confidence in the idea of an FPSC 2?

After a few minutes, I then came to a second conclusion:

2) TGC's asking for money can pull both ways:

a) By people donating money, TGC has a greater obligation to do the job right the first time. If TGC earns money through sales, they can do as they please with it. They earn it. It's theres to use or waste. But if people give money, then they owe it to the donors to make it worth their donation.

b) The old saying goes something like "Put your money where your mouth is." By the community donating, they are making a commitment to keep tabs with the project and to provide support. They show that they truly want another FPSC, and aren't afraid to put money into such an idea before they even get their hands on a product. This might also be a handy way to keep the user community from rejecting it outright. We payed money just for them to develop this, so people might be more willing to buy it if one or two features they hoped for aren't there. I'm not saying they're trying to manipulate us, just that they might be trying to protect themselves.

That's my .02.

Happy developing,
Captain Coder

As a believer in Jesus Christ, I am trying to use my passion for game creation for His glory.
Akanto10
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Location: Earth
Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 05:24
Personally, I'd like to see the following:

DirectX 9, 10, and 11 support
Mulit-core support
More GPU dependent
Optimized RAM usage
Dynamic shadows
New shader system
New integrated physics system (specifically focusing on collision)
Animation blending and bone-specific animation support

If all of these are implemented somehow, I'd be willing to invest even up to $1000, provided that it's going to be actively supported by TGC.

Thanks,
Akanto

| Windows 7 Home Premium 64 - Bit | AMD Athlon II X4 630 @ 2.8GHz | Nvidia GeForce GTX 460 1GB | 6GB DDR3 RAM | 1TB HDD |
michael x
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Location: Cybertron
Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 05:29 Edited at: 22nd Sep 2012 10:33
this is very smart to do. a wise way to see who all will support fpscv2. I just hope its going to be 64bit software. I would most likely support it if so. another 32bit software is pointless. that is what fpsc is for.

I dont think they have there heads in the clouds.if anyone have notice fpscx9 has been drop as well. notice that lee is not the one doing the official updates.Hockeykid and Scene Commander took over after 116 which is the last version Lee did.

if budokaiman would have went to Lee about a official fpscx10 instead of doing the Mystic-Mod there would have been official updates for fpscx10 as well. fpsc is a old outdated software Lee has move on to bigger better things. so this fpscv2 could be one of them.


Im interested to see how that would work out. fpsc x10 was not a waste or bad in anyway. it open the minds of fpsc developers.weather its fpscx10 or x9. it was the same engine running under two different types of windows directX. fpscx10 down was vista. if fpscx10 was to be fpscv2 instead and use DX9 with the same features that fpscx10 had it would have got more attention.people are not made of money so they cant just upgrade and change OS like that.

but fpsc is not about what DX is use its about how the engine is created with it features. if anything I hope the new version of fpscv2 will become a 64 bit software. I know that most people still run there 32bit xp. but it time for a change 32bit is at it end. memory caps is become a pain for those who want to create levels with so much detail. windows 7 is at it best at being stable. 64bit software runs faster better than ever. dual core pc are cheap better graphic cards are cheap as well.

I would like to see the next version of fpsc to become a success.but I cant see that happen no time soon.as well as TGC. that why fpscv2 is still a maybe project. you cant sell a product that no one cant use. you would not make money from that. to put all that time into a new re written fpsc the work must pay off.TGC is about making useful software that we can use to develop video games.

in this case time will tell.but the way I look at it is fpscv2 should be for user with high end pc but with feature control so that even if a mid end user use the engine they can lower the engine to there level of pc.fpscv2 could be a $100 engine that way more advance then the fpscv120. there is so much that can be done here with a new fpsc engine. but it all have to be done right.

some added new feature can be.

DX control being able to choose which DX line you want to use.9,10,11.

fpscx10 slider method
instantly change

bloom effect
skybox
water effects
bloom on or off
change music volume
ambience
fog

other features

dual wielding
music change trigger
air mod stuff
4gb memory cap
larger map grid for outside levels

more than what meets the eye

Welcome to SciFi Summer
TheK
19
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Location: Germany
Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 10:58
Hello there,

I thought a little bit about what I have wrote and what others have and I would like to "update" my list of wishes.
Still I'd like Lee, Rick, or anyone else also to post TGC's first ideas about how the new game creating system would be like, or better, what features it would have. Even if it's not all the ideas (well, they still have to hold some back for Kickstarter), I just would like to see your attitude towards this new engine. And I think, I'm not the only one who wants that.

By the way, I thought about FPSC v2 being 64-bit only. This would be a bad step. You just have to manage the memory better. Look at the new Borderlands 2. It is a 32-bit program, but it handles really huge outdoor scenes without any problems.

OK, now on to the list.
- 32-bit program
- Real memory management
- Streaming of as many of the level files as possible (would make memory management easier)
- Multi-Core processor support (not only for developers)
- New physics and collision system (probably even licensing good modules for that)
- Dynamic lighting with dynamic shadows and lightmapped shadows
- Live game view in editor
- Baking of lightmaps right in the editor (something like the system in Unity)
- Dynamic scaling of level, shader and shadow detail (a settings menu)
- No more "universe model" system when building a level
- Integrated Occlusion Culling
- Better object shader integration (for example, refractions and real time reflections)
- Source code access

Well, that's pretty much my list of all my wishes that would make me pay a lot of money for FPSC v2.

Greetings,
Jan

Skype name: thek491
pdidy
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 12:03
Quote:

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by "back" the project, but I would consider investing as well if that is an option.


i would be interested in this option.
but i would also pledge $500.00
Ched80
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Location: Peterborough, UK
Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 12:59
I love how this forum gets so enthusiastic about FPSC 2, even when there are next to no details about what it will include, or when the first version is likely to be available!

I ticked yes to this, but clearly there is a difference between this short poll and actually pledging cash.

I'd like to know what support from the community TGC will be wanting.

I'm also assuming the source code will be available to those who purchase the product, like it was for x9 and x10. Allowing the community to modify the code is one of the things that makes FPSC great!

Marc Steene
FPSC Master
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 14:12
Quote: "I love how this forum gets so enthusiastic about FPSC 2, even when there are next to no details about what it will include, or when the first version is likely to be available!"


They had me at "based on AppGameKit technology" and "multi-platform"

But seriously, this has been a long time coming. An engine with the ease of use of FPSC with the power of a modern day engine will definitely sell well, especially with the amount of support the current FPSC version has. There will easily be a few thousand dollars pledged towards this. I will be pledging $100.

Features I'd be looking for are:
-AA and AF support (a basic for any game engine nowadays)
-A decent physics system
-Multi-core processor support
-No 2GB memory limit
-No limit to dynamic lights/decals
-Much larger map size
-Dynamic shadows
-Media protection as standard
-MUCH better multiplayer support (dynamic entities and scripts)


Slenderman's Shadow - Sanatorium
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=199408&b=35
Thraxas
Retired Moderator
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Location: The Avenging Axe, Turai
Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 15:25
I would happily back FPSC V2 and with quite a significant amount of money.

From a personal standpoint, I wouldn't want it to have support for maps from the original version. I'd like to think that none of the aspects of the original make it into the new version's code. As much as I love FPSC if a new version is coming out I want a completely new version with none of the problems associated with the original. (I don't count the 2GB memory cap as a problem with FPSC as it's not the fault of FPSC that it's in place).

I'd also like MP to not be included. I honestly think the time could be better invested in SP game aspects. Let's be honest people are not going to want to play our indie MP FPS games anyway.

Wolf
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 15:41
Depending on what the projects extent I might even pump in a couple hundred.



-Wolf

"This thread has been locked for the following reason: Too much EPIC" - Thraxas
TheK
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Location: Germany
Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 15:47
I'd spend a few hundred euros for it, too, if the features are what I need.

I'm excited to see whether this gets a chance on Kickstarter or not.

Greetings,
Jan

Skype name: thek491
Hamburger
16
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Location: Grand Rapids MI
Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 16:12
Quote: "Stock Asset Variety: Earlier, EAI made a post that should cause immediate elation to anyone who reads it. If this project were to become a reality, he would donate assets to the stock media. Original, quality assets that come with the engine would make everyone happy, as I can personally guarantee that EAI's media would see pristine support, expertise, and design. If I were a TGC developer, I wouldn't hesitate to take him up on his offer"


I personally would love to see much more next-gen stock scifi and ww2 assets in the library. If this is supposed to be a brand new fps creator, it should at least have assets that keep up with the times, like MUCH better scifi weapons and such, and make them doom-3 like (my favorite scifi style! ).

I would also like to see some much greater shader capabilitiees like rendering ambient occlusion on textures and the scene, and being able to utilize parralax mapping on objects.

I bet if they did stick to newer versions of DX that this would all be very possible!

One more thing I might also add is to maybe make the interface more "sleek", per say, like having grey toolbars and shiny buttons and such, to make the program more sophisticed!

Im not gonna lie Im so excited rightnnow that I can't even tyrpe straight!

Who knows how long it will take do develop this, but for all we know they could have already started a while ago when we werent looking...

I hope that this blows fpsx9 out of the water! Cheers to the TGC team!

[/href]

++New Products Being Uploaded++
That Guy John
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 19:47
Since some people seem to be throwing their 2cents in for feature requests and such:

I would really like to see the core functionality and features of the engine itself to be left well alone and a redesign of the Development IDE \ Map editor to be put on the top of the priority list.

An IDE \ Map editor that's nearly a clone of the Unity IDE \ Map editor would be fantastic. In order to bring a better work flow to the asset pipeline.

For number 2 on the priority list, I would like to see the ability to create much larger maps.

Just my 2cents [ If it's even worth that much ]

And Here Is A Penguin:
FPSC OneSource [DeskTop App] - Bringing everything together into one.
uman
Retired Moderator
21
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Location: UK
Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 20:38
First off as we are at this stage in FPSC development I would like to take the opportunity to thank TGC and all users and supporters of FPSC both past and present for the time, money, help and hard work they have given to it.

My comments here are personal opinions and generalisations not aimed specifically at any individual and could be applied with relevance to any game engine and do.

As a long term supporter of the concept of FPSC since the early days of its original conception I would like to make comment for what its worth.

I will try and keep this brief, something I am not well known for and leave the details of what FPSC2 should contain in the main as many valuable points have been already been made by other users and many more I am sure will follow. I will instead make reference not to what it should contain, but what it should deliver....

Whats good for indie developers will always be good for and of benefit for the indie game engine developers because their are millions of us and a never ending stream of would be indie game makers always available. All you have to do to achieve success is you have to give them what they want and need which currently is not the case. FPSC itself has not, does not and can not deliver that. Its not an easy task and thats accepted.......

Indie developers in the main generally speaking have quite limited resources in terms of manpower and finances. Given that they are not short of finding creativity, effort and hard work, what they need and have always needed is the right tools to do the job.......

....A Rapid Application Development environment for obvious reasons.

....A complete and stable product that is supported by the developers ongoing.

....potential for backwards compatibility for obvious reasons.

....A bug and issue free environment so they can concentrate on their job and create games instead of spending most of their time fighting with it.

....A method to successfully compile their games.

....A method to successfully distribute their completed games to the widest possible audience.


Thats it. In essence a product that can achieve the objective given that the user has the will to make use of it to that end by themselves making the considerable efforts that will still be needed in order to do so. What they dont need is to waste time working with tools that cant deliver to the end of their project/product life cycle and get their games to market if thats the objective. Bells and whistles wont do whats needed alone but far from it and they will get in the way unless the base product is credible otherwise 10 years down the road they will be starting again.

As to the question of support. These communities have always supported TGC the products and I am sure they will continue to do so even given that FPSC to date has not sadly been able to live up to users expectations and or quite met with the products original concept objectives.

Currently we are asked to support something we know nothing at all about and it would be helpful if users were to be enlightened with information as to what it is that FPSC is envisaged to become as FPSC2 and what it is likely to deliver in some detail of realistic objectives that can be achieved. It would be helpful that we know that FPSC will be further developed fully to reach a successful conclusion to those objectives and not left in limbo half way along the journey.

The detail.....

....FPSC2 should be an indie engine designed with indie developers in mind.

....it should take account of where we are and where game making is today.

....It should provide for compile and delivery to more than one platform. At least local and web browser gameplay.

....It would be advantageous and of benefit to all without doubt if it had credible and stable multiplayer support.

....It is vital that the core engine be stable and extensible and be able to support realistic objectives and deliver indie developers projects successfully and that it can successfully be built upon maintaining that stability.

All in all a lot to ask and expect but thats the nature the beast I guess. Either it will provide users with a tool that can deliver or not. Half a solution is no solution.

Bells and whistles you can do without unless the FPSC2 core engine has stability, extensibility and the base features and functions required by indie developers to support them in the development and deployment of their games successfully currently and ongoing.

Anyway enough of that. Personally I will continue to support FPSC as and when I am able as many will surely do. Everyone is well aware that FPSC has somewhat stagnated in recent times and that is largely due to its own failure to deliver whats been referred to above for many reasons perhaps some of which we are all aware of and some not.

Clearly if FPSC2 is to be any different to FPSC9 and FPSCX10 then it has to deliver in practical terms the indie game makers objectives of successful development and deployment in the real world of today and into the future in the environment of game making and game playing.

I may not live to see it unless its soon - however I wish FPSC2 and all concerned with it much success and your game making.


That Guy John
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 21:07
Well said Uman!

I think the biggest thing that bothers me about the current state of developing with FPSC ( I use the term "developing" very lightly from my point of view, I understand what FPSC is and how dumbed down it is for people like me) is the lack of "Official" utilities to assist in importing assets. There are numerous utilities created by others in the community, which I am extremely grateful for, the people and the little apps, but I would really like to see Official Utilities developed and supported by TGC itself.

For now, I am happy to create my own little apps. It's been a great learning experience for me.

Over all though, I can honestly say that if I hadn't somehow ran into FPSC, the idea of creating a game would just be some idea I had and never pursued even as a hobby.

And Here Is A Penguin:
FPSC OneSource [DeskTop App] - Bringing everything together into one.
Flatlander
FPSC Tool Maker
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 21:34
AGK, Freedom Engine -- Heads in the cloud.

Mobile apps -- easy compile to just about any platform. I wonder how FPSC is going to translate? To me -- very exciting time and possibilities.

"A programmer is just a tool which converts caffeine into code . . . reminds me….. if I had one more brain cell, I could have a synapse! woo hoo, Sparky!

~I'm the Terry of the Flatlands.
unfamillia
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 21:46
I hope this does come to fruition. I have been looking for an engine similar to this in order to produce games for Android devices. (I know i can use Unity, but, i like the was FPSC works and nothing comes close to the speed you can create games with it.

Unfamillia

[url=www.touchoffear.webs.com][/url]
uman
Retired Moderator
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 22:03
Delivering anything like current FPSC worlds and all they may contain in a similar way to AppGameKit, and Freedom Engine may do, which may be an eniviable objective, seems like a whole different ball game and not very realistic in contemplating. Not sure how TGC could ever achieve that but what do I know.

Not sure it would be easy to compile and deploy an FPSC world to those kinds of platforms. Cant even deploy it at all to any platform easily at the moment. Likely that either you would not be able to use the kind of FPSC content you do now or find some way of managing a lot of data efficiently. Does not seem possible to me.

FPSC now could never do it so you would need a new engine developed that could do that from the ground up.

There is 2D and 3D and there are games and there are games which could potentially vary considerably in the volume of data and file sizes. Limitations perhaps are inevitable.

Current FPSC 3D worlds are frighteningly large. Any kind of real time delivery of the large data streams required is somewhat difficult to achieve currently with many engines though I guess it could be years before FPSC2 becomes a reality if ever and the technologies will certainly have moved on a long way by then.

I think we will have to wait until TGC say what its likely to be developing and what its likely to be aimed at doing.

I'm outta here now said my bit I will leave it to you guys.

That Guy John
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 22:04
Terry,
Very good points, I hadn't really put 2 and 2 together til you spoke..
Could be extremely interesting and fruitful!

And Here Is A Penguin:
FPSC OneSource [DeskTop App] - Bringing everything together into one.
Lightning Bolt Studios
FPSC Reloaded Backer
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Posted: 22nd Sep 2012 23:26
I would also Back this with a donation and pay for the final release!
Ertlov
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2012 00:01
I have thought LONG before answering here. Yes, I would back the project, if business goes well the next months perhaps even with some 1000s. But only under very strict "rules of engagement":

- Do not sacrify the USP of FPSC, the extremely fast prototyping. If we end up with a engine that looks like UDK but takes the same time to prototype a basic idea, I`m outta here.

- Model, Media & Script compatibility is a MUST have. Locking out the work done in those areas during the last 6 years would be suicide on start. If the new FPSC would be compatible, it would have the biggest assets library imaginable right from the Beginning.

- I would need a proof from TGC that they are not only willing, but also capable of doing the job they promise. X10 was a horrific experience, but I won`t take it into account. I take a look at AppGameKit and there we have also the situation that there is a obvious difference between what was announced and what is working perfectly. I know that TGC has some of the best support I have ever seen, and for sure the best community, but it doesn`t iron out the glitches the sold products had and have. A proven statement like "4 Full-time coders, 8 full-time artists, two project leads and 20 freelancer will be working on this project only" would be a start.

Don`t get me wrong, but I have invested more than 120.000 Euros (including salaries of employed people, including backoffice during FPSC based developement e.t.c.) in FPSC Projects since 2006, and most of that money came out of my pocket, earned with producing and community work for publishers. And all the time I was depending on the work from community members like EAI, Rolfy, Wolf, Scene Commander, bond, Zombie killer (since 2011), Cosmic e.t.c. to get my work done and therefore my investement secured. Yes, I`m talking about code upgrades AND models right now, that is not entirely fair.
But even when we brake it down to the code upgrades only, I wouldn`t be able to deliver my products without the work of the Community members (although I praise Lee for what he has done).

So when I back FPSC 2, I don`t expect a perfect software from start (that`s impossible as we all know), but I for sure expect a piece of software empowering me to create a game with all the features promised in videos, marketing texts and box descriptions without "workarounds" or "fake features".

Come to where the madness is:http://www.homegrowngames.at
Airslide
21
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Location: California
Posted: 23rd Sep 2012 00:26
There's a lot of posts here so forgive me if it was already mentioned, but I feel that FPSC 2 could greatly benefit from not trying to stuff all sorts of 'features' in the core engine (ragdolls, cooperative multiplayer, etc) and instead providing a solid base that would allow these things to be readily added with either a plugin architecture or a vastly improved scripting language.
That Guy John
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2012 00:29
Airslide - *Returns from MIA status*

And I agree, modular plugin system would be great.

And Here Is A Penguin:
FPSC OneSource [DeskTop App] - Bringing everything together into one.
uman
Retired Moderator
21
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Location: UK
Posted: 23rd Sep 2012 00:58
The problem with plugins or add-ons that "will or may follow later" is that they often do not as we know full well and or they may be open to sources of external developers to TGC to either develop or not.

It is vital that TGC take responsibility for the initial quality of the product and any plugins or add-ons or future development of it and if such responsibility was to be given to others other than TGC itself then such developments should need to meet with stringent quality control and testing before being released or built in to the core product which we expect to be stable. What you dont need is a stable core with plugins or add ons which dont meet with the same standards as the core itself and may not integrate without causing issue and disabling the efficiency or stability of that core.
That Guy John
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2012 01:06
Uman
I agree completely.
Maybe if Lee or one of the other primary TGC employees (Rick, I believe) were to get with the primary developers of Blender and have a session together to discuss how they operate their process of opening up to a plugin system and how they decide what gets added to the core of their software and what not..
I am not fluent in the matter of project management, so obviously I could be talking out of my you know what... but maybe I could be making sense?

And Here Is A Penguin:
FPSC OneSource [DeskTop App] - Bringing everything together into one.
Captain Coder
FPSC Reloaded TGC Backer
14
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Playing: Elite: Dangerous
Posted: 23rd Sep 2012 05:14
I've read a lot of posts with wishlists, and most ask for better use of the hardware, etc. While I like the idea of a plugin system (allows for fewer chances of the computer messing up in the code), I don't like the idea of paying money for a really "dumb" engine but can be stuffed full of plugins. Additionally, there's more margin for error when passing information to and from the plugin (I don't know how plugins work entirely - I'm not the coder I wish I was ), and I would think there's potential for extra lag if you use a lot of plugins, especially on older/lower spec machines.

Also, who's to say you won't be spending money into infinity on plugins? I'd really rather see it all done in the main engine and buy it all at one time as opposed to getting the bare bones editor that comes with a bottomless pit for cash for plugins.

I do, of course, leave it to the more intelligent than me

Quote: "AGK, Freedom Engine -- Heads in the cloud."


I knew it was a joke - and for once, I actually got it

Hoping for the best,
Captain Coder

As a believer in Jesus Christ, I am trying to use my passion for game creation for His glory.
Dar13
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Location: Microsoft VisualStudio 2010 Professional
Posted: 23rd Sep 2012 05:58
Quote: "Additionally, there's more margin for error when passing information to and from the plugin (I don't know how plugins work entirely - I'm not the coder I wish I was ), and I would think there's potential for extra lag if you use a lot of plugins, especially on older/lower spec machines. "

It's actually more maintainable(a plus for something as big as FPSC) and also more debuggable than grouping all the different features together.

The best way to implement plugins would be to standardize how the plugin and FPSC share data(through some version of a required function that returns specifically formatted data) and require that the plugin adhere to that standard. If done properly, the performance penalty is minimal and saves you the massive maintainability headache created by the monstrous combination of all the different groups of features.

TriSpefear Studios
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Location: Dallas, Texas, USA
Posted: 23rd Sep 2012 06:24
Fpsc V2 will be ultimately awesome!

"Everyone may doubt me, but your just giving me more of a reason to continue on..."
ozziedave
20
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Location: Australia
Posted: 23rd Sep 2012 08:58
Love this software. Best idea to create an FPS available on the net.

Could not understand the short sighted approach in stopping
development at DirectX 9. I purchased FPSC 10 with the hope that it would work with my new laptop ASUS G74S, Win 7 DX 11, it did not work and I wasted my money.

I know that the company advised that it would not, but some users
recon'd it would, so I took the gamble and lost.

This is an excellent product, WHY stop at DirectX 9 ?????.

The problem is that there are to many Irons in the Game Creators FIRE.
Flatlander
FPSC Tool Maker
19
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Location: The Flatlands
Posted: 23rd Sep 2012 10:21
Quote: " I purchased FPSC 10 . . . with my new laptop ASUS G74S, Win 7 DX 11, it did not work . . ."


I don't know if this would work but did you try installing DX 10 onto your Win 7 machine? If it will install then FPSC 10 would work I should think. DX9 works on Win 7.

Quote: "Love this software. Best idea to create an FPS available on the net"


Don't blink but I think that's the plan.

"A programmer is just a tool which converts caffeine into code . . . reminds me….. if I had one more brain cell, I could have a synapse! woo hoo, Sparky!

~I'm the Terry of the Flatlands.
Wicked Blood Gaming
16
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Location: Colorado
Posted: 23rd Sep 2012 18:33
I would pay...sooo much. But this is my thing, I would hope you would integrate simeple FPS things such as...a built it, working, options menu. Also the ability to configure a difficulty setting. And....be able to take basically my whole files folder and bring it over to the new one and keep my own models that I made also ones from fpsc-files, offical model packs, etc...
RickV
TGC Development Director
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 23rd Sep 2012 18:59
Phew! What a lot of awesome feedback! We've had over 900 people register interest in funding this idea so far.

There's still a lot to consider and debate. We can't do all these ideas and we will have to get some votes on what you all think is important in a new FPSC2 product.

I personally feel that the segment system will have to go and be replaced by a terrain world with some form of easy building creation system. Keeping the scripting system and media support is a no-brainer really, we want you to re-use what you have already invested in.

I must apologise for the X10 situation. It was sad to have to drop it but we could not support all these engines and do a decent job and I'm aware this has been a big issue for people. I really want to see the business focus on AppGameKit and FPSC2 going forward and no other game making systems.

FPSC2 will take a lot of time and money to develop. The only way to get it started will be by your support and the support of many other backers. I do feel that we can make an awesome product if we raise what we need to ensure a full development cycle. We have leant lots of things along the way and know what not to do!

I will prepare a new feeback form soon which will ask about your interest in certain features. It's best we make what you want and not what we think you want.

Rick

PS FPSC1 was my idea way back in the early years of the Millennium, it's so cool to hear so many of your still willing to back our idea to make a version 2.

Financial Director
TGC Team
TriSpefear Studios
14
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Location: Dallas, Texas, USA
Posted: 23rd Sep 2012 19:37
Quote: "I personally feel that the segment system will have to go and be replaced by a terrain world with some form of easy building creation system"


+1

"Everyone may doubt me, but your just giving me more of a reason to continue on..."
uzi idiot
Valued Member
16
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Posted: 23rd Sep 2012 20:28 Edited at: 23rd Sep 2012 20:30
I think it'd be better if the segment system could stay but we also had other options for making the maps, like a map editor similar to most other engines or compatibility with other map tools.

I think backwards compatibility should be possible with the assets and maps so that transitioning to it won't be as much of a hassle. But compatibility with a more formats would be very welcome in my opinion because I think the directX model format is somewhat restrictive.

If something compiles on the first try. Something is terribly wrong.
skaterdude
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Location: Turn Around. :D
Posted: 23rd Sep 2012 20:55
As far as the segment/terrain editor is concerned, I feel that it would be best to have a system similar to the Gamebryo Engine (Fallout 3/Elder Scrolls IV/V). This would consist of having Navmeshes for each level, much like the enormous "world terrain" found in COD engines. (Like when you're out of the map, the on-going land you walk on that eventually falls through is the mesh I'm speaking of.) One terrain for the whole level can be created, and buildings, rocks, overlays, and other geometry can be added. In indoor levels, the Navmesh is rarely used, so it would be paramount that a "segment" system still be used, but I agree that it be completely different form the previous system in FPSCx9.

The system was thoroughly buggy, and highly difficult to code occlusion culling for. Here's a list of problems with the old system that should not be CORRECTED, but instead, AVOIDED:

-Dynamic Segments could not be lightmapped, thereby making them have a brighter appearance in-game then every other static segment. So, in essence, a dynamic door at the end of a completely dark hallway would appear bright as day.

-Making adjacent rooms with different wall segments was a complex, headache-inducing process. Walls just has issues with being different on each side, often affecting the corresponding floor segments as well.

-AI pathfinding...need I say more? Imagine writing a script for an AI character to navigate from the Navmesh terrain to a building made of segments, and vice versa. Nightmares!

-Non-destructible segments. Dummy (unbreakable) windows/doors.

-Collision detection. AI and dynamic objects just fall through the floor. Walking into a static object can incur damage. If the player stands on stairs, he/she will slowly slide down without moving.

System: Windows 7, 2.5 Ghz Quad-Core, 1 TB HDD, 8 GB RAM, ATI Radeon HD 4650 | My Superheroes: bond1 and Errant AI

Dar13
18
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Location: Microsoft VisualStudio 2010 Professional
Posted: 23rd Sep 2012 21:59
Quote: "This would consist of having Navmeshes for each level, much like the enormous "world terrain" found in COD engines. (Like when you're out of the map, the on-going land you walk on that eventually falls through is the mesh I'm speaking of.) One terrain for the whole level can be created, and buildings, rocks, overlays, and other geometry can be added. In indoor levels, the Navmesh is rarely used, so it would be paramount that a "segment" system still be used, but I agree that it be completely different form the previous system in FPSCx9."

The mesh you're referring to is called a collision mesh, navigation meshes are used for AI path finding.

Quote: "Here's a list of problems with the old system that should not be CORRECTED, but instead, AVOIDED:"

That doesn't really make much sense especially when you reference collision detection, AI pathfinding, and static indestructible segments(do you know how much work it is to have destructible environment?).

I agree that all of those things need to be fixed, and most of them need to completely redone, but avoiding those issues is impossible. AI path finding needs a major update, possibly using navigation meshes and a suitable library for path finding on navigation meshes(Recast/Detour are good libraries for this).

Collision detection should be purely left up to the physics engine, and ODE shouldn't be used this time around. Bullet Physics or a proper PhysX implementation would be best(Havok would be awesome, but a bit overboard I think).

Dynamic segments just need to have a default shader attached to them that uses per-pixel lighting or other lighting/shading techniques to help simulate the lightmapping of the static segments nearby.

A dude
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Location: The Solar System
Posted: 23rd Sep 2012 22:36
Quote: "I think it'd be better if the segment system could stay but we also had other options for making the maps, like a map editor similar to most other engines or compatibility with other map tools."

+1
Daniel wright 2311
User Banned
Posted: 23rd Sep 2012 23:19
Quote: " We can't do all these ideas and we will have to get some votes on what you all think is important in a new FPSC2 product.
"



Third person would be simple to implicate into the code of the engine, cough, cough.

my signature keeps being erased by a mod So this is my new signature.
RickV
TGC Development Director
26
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Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 24th Sep 2012 00:25
Quick question folks. What would you think if the name of the project was "Game Creator". It would still be FPSC (with 3rd person). Do you think that would be a negative move or could you live with the idea?

Rick

Financial Director
TGC Team
TheK
19
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Location: Germany
Posted: 24th Sep 2012 00:41
Hey there,

I think "Game Creator" sounds too easy. Since we are talking about a serious game creating system (I hope we do), if I was in your place, I'd think a little bit more and give it a name like Unity has. A name with a deeper meaning than the obvious one that you see when reading the name.

I would find it OK if the system had 3rd person capabilities, the focus should be on first-person, though.

Greetings,
Jan

Skype name: thek491
skaterdude
16
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Joined: 23rd Apr 2010
Location: Turn Around. :D
Posted: 24th Sep 2012 01:25
Yeah, not digging "Game Creator," unfortunately.

FPSC is too great of an acronym.

It would be a first person engine, but with the ability to view your character in third person. Like...dare I say, Minecraft!

System: Windows 7, 2.5 Ghz Quad-Core, 1 TB HDD, 8 GB RAM, ATI Radeon HD 4650 | My Superheroes: bond1 and Errant AI

That Guy John
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Location: United States
Posted: 24th Sep 2012 01:30
RickV
I think re-branding is an excellent idea, but I also think if you are going to re-name it you might as well move away from "Creator" all together.

Why not go all the way. "SDK - Shooter Development Kit".
Before someone tries to explain to me what SDK really stands, I am well aware.
I am just trying to make a suggestion to go with a name that is not so.. "Generic product On the store-shelf".. you know what I mean.

And Here Is A Penguin:
FPSC OneSource [DeskTop App] - Bringing everything together into one.

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