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FPSC Classic Product Chat / FPS Creator Version 2

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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 26th Sep 2012 23:19
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Here are the important things required for FPSC 2

- Importing entities must all be handled in the editor. No more editing .fpe files and recompiling. You must be able to scale and do everything you need to with them in the editor/

- Iterative lightmapping. Having to wait hours to see how your level will look with decent lighting kills development time. You must be able to select specific parts of a map and lightmap them for previewing before lightmapping the entire scene.

- Dark AI properties need to be added into the editor so you can set all of their values and enemy or friendly AI without amending .fpi files.

- Post processing effects must be integrated like in X10 so you can edit their values in the editor and preview them.

- FPSC isn't a bad engine but its too time consuming making anything good. The tools are there but they are not user friendly which is what the engine is supposed to be about.

- If you want the engine to grow you also need to make it so people can develop plugins or addons to the editor easily rather than waiting months for TGC or a couple of people to integrate new things.

- FPSC must have real time dynamic lighting and shadows going forward. Only having static lightmapping just doesn't cut it anymore.

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michael x
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Posted: 27th Sep 2012 00:10
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Quote: " Importing entities must all be handled in the editor. No more editing .fpe files and recompiling. You must be able to scale and do everything you need to with them in the editor"


agree like shader or noshader.

Quote: " Post processing effects must be integrated like in X10 so you can edit their values in the editor and preview them"


agree. best thing about fpscx10 it was like having a realtime editor.

Quote: " If you want the engine to grow you also need to make it so people can develop plugins or addons to the editor easily rather than waiting months for TGC or a couple of people to integrate new things"


long term thinking.

Quote: " FPSC must have real time dynamic lighting and shadows going forward. Only having static lightmapping just doesn't cut it anymore"


lightmapping should be taking out. it can read multiple diffuse textures like dynamic. which limited the use of models.

Quote: " Dark AI properties need to be added into the editor so you can set all of their values and enemy or friendly AI without amending .fpi files"


smart ai is a must.

more than what meets the eye

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TriSpefear Studios
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Posted: 27th Sep 2012 15:11
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Smart A.I. Is key

"Everyone may doubt me, but your just giving me more of a reason to continue on..."
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TZap
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Posted: 28th Sep 2012 22:57
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I'd be happy if the new version could have more than a handful of characters active at any one time without problems.
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CorrosionMedia
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Posted: 29th Sep 2012 02:30
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How about if it's just called FPSC2?
It would seem more professional as "Creator" always makes me think of a basic version of something.
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Meows
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Posted: 29th Sep 2012 05:26
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I love the idea.
I support the idea.

However have question.
Dark Game Studio
FPS Creator
AGK Community Edition
The 3D Gamemaker
DarkBASIC Electronic
App Game Kit
The shoot 'em up kit
Freedom Engine
The Game Creators Ltd AppGameKit is our new cross platform tech moving forward. Freedom is part of that

So will FPSC2 be another in a list of almost or the one we all dream of?



Life is a short trip to another world
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XGames
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Posted: 29th Sep 2012 10:50
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I find the title FPSCreator 2 or FPSC2 very lame in the sence that it's to obvious and simple after all I considered FPSCX10 to be the second version of FPS Creator X9.
Yeah keep the Fps Creator and FPSC names so people can still relate to the software.

Brainstorm

FPSC PRO
FPS Creative
FPSC Advance
FPSC Kit
FPSC X2 or X11
FPSC Indie
FPSC Dev
FPSC plus


Had to get of my chest been buging me

FPSxGames BLOG; http://www.fps-x-games.com/
Minecraft BLOG; http://www.minecraftblog.me/
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DarthBasicVader
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Posted: 29th Sep 2012 16:43
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Compatibility with all (and i repeat ALL) the model packs we have bought so far it's a must for me (and a show stopper if this feature will not be there).

Riccardo
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Dar13
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Posted: 29th Sep 2012 17:03
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Quote: "Compatibility with all (and i repeat ALL) the model packs we have bought so far it's a must for me (and a show stopper if this feature will not be there)."

What if they released a utility to update all the relevant files to be FPSC2-compliant? I see what you mean, but I'd rather TGC not worry about backwards-compatibility too much.

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TriSpefear Studios
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Posted: 29th Sep 2012 18:09
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Quote: "What if they released a utility to update all the relevant files to be FPSC2-compliant? I see what you mean, but I'd rather TGC not worry about backwards-compatibility too much.
"


Close enough and would take off strain for TGC

"Everyone may doubt me, but your just giving me more of a reason to continue on..."
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KeithC
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Posted: 29th Sep 2012 19:04
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I don't want to see backwards compatibility compromise the stability or the new core of FPSC2. I would rather they not worry about it (as far as media goes; they'd be foolish not to have a pipeline in place for it, there's just too much money in it). If you have a project in FPSC 1.x; then finish it in 1.x, otherwise start fresh in 2.x.

I'm concerned that some people may be just wishing for the stars, and expecting it all. If FPSC 2 is being built from the ground up; backwards compatibility shouldn't impede it at all, in my opinion.

-Keith

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The Nerevar
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Posted: 29th Sep 2012 19:16
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^^ except for model packs at least. I still think .x files should also be used for this FPSC as well.

Fulfilling the Nerevarine Prophecy, one trial at a time, because I... Am... The Nerevar!
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BlackFox
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Posted: 29th Sep 2012 19:41 Edited at: 29th Sep 2012 19:56
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Quote: "I don't want to see backwards compatibility compromise the stability or the new core of FPSC2. I would rather they not worry about it (as far as media goes; they'd be foolish not to have a pipeline in place for it, there's just too much money in it). If you have a project in FPSC 1.x; then finish it in 1.x, otherwise start fresh in 2.x."


A valid point. Currently, there is no proper compatibility between the v1.x releases. In other words, if you work on a level in 1.17 and jump to v1.19 you may face issues. You have a greater chance of issues if you open that v1.17 map in v1.19, save it and decide to revert back. Those of us that know the source know why that is.

A few things that stand out to me after the developments we have released currently. One is the memory usage- here is an example. I can build a mini 6x6 level using ground floor or segment room, put half a dozen crates in it, a couple of characters, and it uses around 680 MB memory. I can build a full outdoor level using 37x37, populated with buildings, trees, static/dynamic crates, some characters (most are spawned via trigger) and that level uses 1200 MB memory. It always astonished me why a simple test mini level always seems to use memory in the range of 640-700 MB.

A second issue is markers used in the editor. I'm going to take a conversation I had with Rolfy about light markers. We've always had issues getting the lighting just right. Rolfy explained to us that the light marker source is the screw-in part, not the bulb of the light. My wife and I had never known this, and since learning this our lighting process is much easier. Same with some decals- some use the cross, others use what looks like a cyclone. I know that we can change them (we have done so ourselves to line up multiple decals easier), but could you not use a marker that is actually useful? I'm afraid an upside down light bulb just does not help.

Another item that we had discovered is how some media during a build game process does not copy to the build, requiring manual intervention. For example, we have an Egyptian game development currently being worked on. I have two skyboxes, one called DE1 and one called DE2. DE1 is a desert box with blue sky; DE2 is the same desert box but grey sky. These never copy in a build. I've been told that it could be the skybox file label has a number in it. The DBO is there, but not the textures- as soon as textures are copied, everything is fine. We've seen the same with entities where the mesh is white in a build game until we copy the actual texture file in place. These entities also have numerals in the name (ex: wall1, wall2, etc). The Dark Egypt pack is a great example of this issue. I have personally conversed with Ross over our findings (some folders had the "&" in the folder name) and never copy in a build.

Little things like these addressed would be nice to see in the next version.


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MintMarkus
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Posted: 29th Sep 2012 19:50
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What about, when you compile a game, it compiles all the files in a file called "Files.<insert packaged filetype here>" ? It would certainly secure the game...
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uman
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Posted: 29th Sep 2012 22:10
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Unfortunately backwards compatibility is an issue that should not be allowed to have an adverse affect on FPSC2.

Media content may be a different matter to compatibility of maps versions.

Yes we would all like to see backwards compatibility if possible however it may not be possible if you dont want to end up with the same or similar situation as you have now in which case the whole project would be pointless. In that case you might as well continue with the current software until it comes to the end of its natural or otherwise life.

The halfway house cannot provide for your needs - thats much what you have now. Neither here nor there and only half the tool you and others need to take you forward into the future.

FPSC2 I presume will be a new animal completely or it wont deliver whats required in the long term which will arrive and be here and now by the time its done which could be some considerable long way off if ever.

FPSC2 so it seems will be vital for TGC to get right this time around. Not sure another attempt would ever be possible if it is not. FPSC2 will be an important product for TGC. The future of the product and these forums may depend upon it.

Yes TGC will need to take current users along with them on the long road to FPSC2 by asking for your support in making the difficult decisions they will have to make and perhaps explaining them to you along the way to get it.

It seems to me too that TGC and FPSC2 will ideally need to also appeal to and encourage many new users to the product and to these forums and so appeal to wider range of users than it currently does.

There are a lot of potential new FPSC2 users out there and more on constant stream which need convincing that they should join us here and help ensure that the product and these forums grow well into the future and to the benefit all concerned. The alternative is not what we want to contemplate.

There are simply not enough of us currently and we need more people using FPSC2 than we have now. To do that the product has to meet the needs of many more indie developers given that they don't even know it as such at the moment.

Design, create, develop, compile, deploy. The more difficult that is the less users it will have.

Make the pipeline smooth and easy ( a massive consideration in planning ) currently not nearly as helpful as it should be all round from start to finish in every aspect. No indie developer on the planet needs problems so the less of them you have the better. Anything at all relating to the current software that is a cause of users pulling their hair out and theres a lot of that should not be included in FPSC2 at all or even considered despite what we might think.

TGC have to think about what they can leave behind in favour of what can be better and so do we even if at our own expense. It is selfish only to think of oneself and more importantly the product and its success and the future of game making with it into the future is over riding.

I have like everyone else here a long investment in FPSC. Many have a greater investment in it than I and I can appreciate that.

The difficulty now is how does one make FPSC2 and what do you make it become.

I may be completely wrong here but I personally cant see how you could possibly make or turn the current FPSC into what FPSC2 needs to become without substantially changing some parts of the current product if not starting from scratch completely.

I may be way wrong there, the point being that anything that in any way gets in the way of a successful game making product that average indie developers can use to bring their games to fruition in a "relatively" short time should be dropped like a stone. Of course that does not mean that what you may refer to as advanced features and functions should not be available. Simply that they should be credible and benefit and not detract.

Anyway I think all will become clear sooner or later if FPSC2 gets off the ground will eventually have something for all that they like even if not everything. Thats likely to be the case for us all.

I too hope that perhaps one day I may be able to complete some of the game levels I started with FPSC EA version. Yes I still have a copy on CD

Who Knows?

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Clonkex
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Posted: 30th Sep 2012 03:02
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TGC, TAKE NOTE:

I haven't read this full thread yet, but I want to say this: TGC, for several months now I've been planning the creation of FPSC Pro. I have already started work. I've thought very carefully about what the engine needed to support and have, after a GREAT deal of consideration, decided to use the OGRE rendering engine. It supports all the graphical fanciness that is expected of modern games, runs on almost any platform, and supports DX9, DX11 and OpenGL. I will happily be the sole worker on this project if it means I get some of the money from the result.

On another note, why wait for Kickstarter to be allowed in the UK? Why not just use the far less restrictive IndieGoGo?



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Clonkex
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Posted: 30th Sep 2012 04:30
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After reading a bit more, I noticed several of you believe TGC to be "spread too thin" across their huge range of products. Well, if they decide to let me do it, I'll be the creator of FPSC Professional/2, so I'll be able to devote my entire time to the project.

I also noticed several of you suggesting features and then going on to say that it's not really worth mentioning those features because they it would require so much work and TGC doesn't have the time. Well, I was already planning on doing 99% of the features you suggested.

For those of you who want a more professional BSP-style editing system (much like 3DWS and CS4 and even Valve's Hammer), I am planning on allowing the use of segments AND BSP-style editing. Segment editing will be the priority to begin with, and then after the initial release I'll get to work on the BSP-style editing.

And I was planning on calling it FPS Creator Professional for a reason: it will be just as reliable, professional and feature-rich as Unity or UDK.

Clonkex



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Flatlander
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Posted: 30th Sep 2012 06:01 Edited at: 30th Sep 2012 06:02
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@Clonkex

Lee doesn't read the forum posts, although, Rick probably reads this particular thread. However, I believe that direct contact by email would be the most professional way of pursuing. Just a suggestion.

The past has a lot of memories to hold onto; but, today is chock full of new adventures, and, the future shouts out, "The best is yet to come!" -- TerryC
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Dar13
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Posted: 30th Sep 2012 08:06
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Quote: "I haven't read this full thread yet, but I want to say this: TGC, for several months now I've been planning the creation of FPSC Pro. I have already started work. I've thought very carefully about what the engine needed to support and have, after a GREAT deal of consideration, decided to use the OGRE rendering engine. It supports all the graphical fanciness that is expected of modern games, runs on almost any platform, and supports DX9, DX11 and OpenGL. I will happily be the sole worker on this project if it means I get some of the money from the result."

I assume that you've actually used Ogre in a project of a non-trivial scope before deciding on using it for your FPSC Pro? OGRE is not a trivial engine to use, and it's particularly in a very fluid state as it's going through a period of refactoring and performance enhancement.

I'd recommend trying to make a smallish 3D game using OGRE and some other C++ libraries before committing to making a product that would compete with UDK and Unity.

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Clonkex
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Posted: 30th Sep 2012 11:43
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@F l a t l a n d e r:

Yes, I thought of that, and I've already sent an email to Rick

@Dar13:

I've used Ogre before, yes. I've already learned that it's not all that easy to use (it's nothing like DBPro). Either way, you underestimate me I have no job (I live with my parents) and I'm homeschooled so the schoolwork only takes 2-3 hours, so I can devote a great deal of time to learning a new engine and I'm very good at learning a new engine as I go. But since I've already learned how to use most of it, I don't have to

Clonkex



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uman
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Posted: 30th Sep 2012 13:26
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No one is stopping any user going off and making their own FPS engine.

I don't think you will ever see TGC hand the responsibility for the development of FPSC2 to anyone outside own of their plan for it. I don't think that will ever happen.

Still anyone that wants to have a go at building what indie fps game developers want so we can have another alternative can start their own engine development and if its any good I am sure we will all find it somewhere out there on the web.

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Dar13
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Posted: 30th Sep 2012 17:33
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Quote: "I've used Ogre before, yes. I've already learned that it's not all that easy to use (it's nothing like DBPro). Either way, you underestimate me I have no job (I live with my parents) and I'm homeschooled so the schoolwork only takes 2-3 hours, so I can devote a great deal of time to learning a new engine and I'm very good at learning a new engine as I go. But since I've already learned how to use most of it, I don't have to"

I'm not underestimating you, I'm just wary of someone that says they're going to make a game development product that's similar in quality to UDK/Unity by themselves.

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BlackFox
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Posted: 30th Sep 2012 17:56 Edited at: 30th Sep 2012 18:25
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Quote: "I don't think you will ever see TGC hand the responsibility for the development of FPSC2 to anyone outside own of their plan for it. I don't think that will ever happen.
"


That would be like me handing the truck keys to my three year old son.

Quote: "It seems to me too that TGC and FPSC2 will ideally need to also appeal to and encourage many new users to the product and to these forums and so appeal to wider range of users than it currently does. "


Something to add to your comment is the need for proper documentation or a more user friendly manual/tutorial, particularly geared for the new user. It would not be a bad thing to have an organized and concise manual starting in order the basics and moving to more advanced techniques. Currently, you either have to sift through forum posts or 2 pdf manuals where information is scattered about. It is a bit overwhelming to a beginner and they can get discouraged easily enough.

There have been many threads where new users are asking things like "how to place a door" or "put an item on a table" (to name a few) and are told to "search" or "this has been answered before". If you truly want to draw in a larger user base, then the time invested in creating said concise documentation will pay off ten fold. Not just cut and paste information, but sometimes a nice step-by-step (with screenshots) are a big help and will ease the new user into the software.


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TriSpefear Studios
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Posted: 30th Sep 2012 18:18
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Quote: "proper documentation"


This is what killed me when i started FPSC.. There is no good Proper Documentation

"Everyone may doubt me, but your just giving me more of a reason to continue on..."
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uman
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Posted: 30th Sep 2012 19:07
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BlackFox

Help links, manual, demos, tutorials should be available from inside the editor.

Everything else possible should be available from inside the editor. e.g. Script editing. A much extended set of configurations and parameters for all world objects available inside editor or an objects properties dialogue box or inbuilt mini editors or plugins if you like :

Material sounds and their volume, range and so on, reflection/colour intensity, shader qualities, enemy behaviours and so on available as variable flexible choices providing for options to be set and the changes made to be updated and seen as feedback in the editor without need to compile constantly for every tweak needed to be adjusted. Something akin perhaps to some of the X10 qualities as sliders, drop down boxes, mutlitple range boxes. For example minimum and maximum fog ranges, fog colour and so on. As many things as possible should be catered for internally to the editor and engine without the need to resort to leave it including as said scripting requirements for those that need to extend their Games project capabilities. In the main the users should be able to put together a playable game with basic and standard gameplay features without the need to leave the editor or script anything at all though such potential clearly needs to be available for the more advanced users. FPSC2 should be intuitive and helpful in all things wherever possible.

Its been mentioned and yes some kind of ability to replicate the segment system or RAD approach to world building should be available internally even if its built on the use of editable primitives or single sided planes. Editing, scaling, texturing and so on of world objects internally would be of great benefit to all.

This and more that everyone would like to see I am sure is all a great deal of work and easy to say but not so easy to achieve of course so likely none of this is very likely perhaps to become a reality.

Still now is the time to daydream before the reality, whatever that may be in fact sets in.

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BlackFox
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Posted: 30th Sep 2012 19:45
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Uman,

Quote: "Help links, manual, demos, tutorials should be available from inside the editor."


Agreed. Even if in PDF/CHM form, they can still be launched from the editor. Does not matter, as long as the documentation is in proper order and is "user friendly". Meaning (if needed) split the documents so one is help, one contains example scripts, one may demonstrate how to build, etc. We have already a comprehensive document started ourselves where we first covered the basics (how to configure FPSC, how to setup game folder), then moved on to beginner basics (place a door, run a test, adjust an entity), then onto other topics. With screenshots, it becomes very detailed and that is what new users need. The manual we put together for our usage contains videos, screenshots, example scripts, tips & techniques, and wrapped in a VB application we wrote so all we have to do is open the app and select the topic. The key again is that in order to draw in new people and keep them interested in the software is to spend the time on the documentation, not just the bells and whistles. This way they have a detailed set of documents that will not only help them, but should answer most questions that are commonly asked on a weekly basis.

Quote: "Everything else possible should be available from inside the editor. e.g. Script editing."


This would be particularly useful. Either configure options for editing scripts by allowing the developer to specify the script editor (example: TextPad is what I use most times; perhaps allowing to link to an external script editor like FPI EditPad would be good) or the editor has its own built-in script editor.

Quote: "Something akin perhaps to some of the X10 qualities as sliders, drop down boxes, mutlitple range boxes. For example minimum and maximum fog ranges, fog colour and so on."


Sliders and such would be helpful. Added to your minimum/maximum fog ranges, I wonder if the same concept to be applied to lights, where you not just specify a "light range", but a minimum and maximum range.

Quote: "Still now is the time to daydream before the reality, whatever that may be in fact sets in."


Always good to daydream


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A dude
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Posted: 30th Sep 2012 21:53
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A good feature FPSC v2 should have is the ability to make map sketches.
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AngelTheKiller
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Posted: 1st Oct 2012 01:57
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I'll like to see a better multiplayer engine in FPSCV2 and dynamic this in multiplayer too. Dynamic shadows are a must to have a nice looking level. Also for there too be a settings options for graphics like the resolution, shaders, Shadows, Etc. I'll then buy FPSCv2 but also fix the weird crashes :S

Hello.
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Teabone
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Posted: 1st Oct 2012 02:12 Edited at: 1st Oct 2012 02:14
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I absolutely love to make models for FPSC. I like to script as well though FPSC has some issues i come across on occations when I try to push it.

Would love to still be able to make models for the new version as well. Though I'm assume that would just require a different export type if we no longer are using the directx types?

I'm not too big on the multiplayer feature thats already in FPSC. So if that's something that doesn't continue in FPSC 2 I won't be too affected by it personally.

One of the biggest main issues i have with FPSC is the memory cap. I'm always hitting it... even with small maps. ( I do understand there are some work arounds )

http://teabone.awardspace.com
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Clonkex
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Posted: 1st Oct 2012 02:56
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Hey all,

Just want to say I'm reading all your posts and almost everything you say you want, I can do. So just wait a bit and you'll get your excellent help files, automatic map sketches, awesome multiplayer and easy modelmaking and importing, just to name a few

Quote: "I'm not underestimating you, I'm just wary of someone that says they're going to make a game development product that's similar in quality to UDK/Unity by themselves."


Yeah I know what you mean. It does sound rather like a distant dream, doesn't it? But I fully believe I can do it, so we'll see.

Quote: "That would be like me handing the truck keys to my three year old son."


lol maybe I should tell them that they can do FPSC2 if they want, but I'm still going to make FPSCPro

Quote: "if its any good I am sure we will all find it somewhere out there on the web."


HA!! If it's any good, I'll be promoting it EVERYWHERE! If I get it done before TGC finishes their FPSC2 I'll be selling it on TGC's own website! Don't worry, you'll have no trouble finding it

Clonkex



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TriSpefear Studios
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Posted: 1st Oct 2012 03:15 Edited at: 1st Oct 2012 14:13
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Quote: "HA!! If it's any good, I'll be promoting it EVERYWHERE! If I get it done before TGC finishes their FPSC2 I'll be selling it on TGC's own website! Don't worry, you'll have no trouble finding it"


You're over-confidence will be your downfall... Oh how I love fortune cookies...

-Edit: Typo

"Everyone may doubt me, but your just giving me more of a reason to continue on..."
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Hamburger
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Posted: 1st Oct 2012 05:43 Edited at: 1st Oct 2012 05:50
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Quote: "You're over coincidence will be your downfall"


I agree with TriSpefear here. Not to be disrespectful by any means, but I would MUCH rather to have TGC develop this as a company, rather than some random guy do it.

Because TGC probably knows what they are doing and know how to manage development of a program better, I'll be blatantly honest about my opinion. It sounds too good to be true what you are saying right now. Especially due to the fact that you are still learning how to use Ogre or whatever it was called, and also as mentioned your overconfidence is rather apparent.

I'll be blown away if you turn out to be right but as of this moment I am doubting that your abilities are beyond that of a team of highly experienced programmers and directors. I'm not deliberatly trying to underestimate you but this is basically what I am feeling.

another good point from uman to back up my statement:

Quote: "I don't think you will ever see TGC hand the responsibility for the development of FPSC2 to anyone outside own of their plan for it. I don't think that will ever happen.
"


Again, no disrespect here but just giving my honest opinion.

This is not meant to start a flame war in this thread.

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Clonkex
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Posted: 1st Oct 2012 10:25
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Quote: "You're over coincidence will be your downfall..."


Meant to be "Your over-confidence"?

Quote: "I agree with TriSpefear here. Not to be disrespectful by any means, but I would MUCH rather to have TGC develop this as a company, rather than some random guy do it."


I totally see your point, and I think TGC is still intending to do it themselves, but that's actually a good thing for me because if I don't have to report to TGC then I'll be under far less pressure.

Quote: "Because TGC probably knows what they are doing and know how to manage development of a program better, I'll be blatantly honest about my opinion. It sounds too good to be true what you are saying right now. Especially due to the fact that you are still learning how to use Ogre or whatever it was called, and also as mentioned your overconfidence is rather apparent."


Ah well you're welcome to think that if you like. As far as I can tell, I would be able to finish FPSCPro faaar quicker than TGC. Don't ask me why I think that (I can't actually think of a reason why one random guy would be quicker), I just do.

Quote: "I'll be blown away if you turn out to be right but as of this moment I am doubting that your abilities are beyond that of a team of highly experienced programmers and directors. I'm not deliberatly trying to underestimate you but this is basically what I am feeling."


That comment immediately made me want even more to get going with serious development of FPSCPro! Prepare to be blown away! ...sometime in the next 2 months, I should think. Maybe only 1 month

Quote: "Again, no disrespect here but just giving my honest opinion.

This is not meant to start a flame war in this thread."


That's absolutely fine. I am, by nature, a very un-offendable guy. Your doubts are very reasonable. I am, after all, just one guy, who says he can do better AND quicker than a team of trained professionals with years of experience.

Also, I never allow myself to became entangled in a flame war, so you have nothing to worry about

Have fun doubting me while I spend many sleepless nights learning Ogre as I go and creating the best FPSC ever

Clonkex



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HarryWever
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Posted: 1st Oct 2012 12:06
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Voted! And would gladly contribute.
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SpaceWurm
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Posted: 1st Oct 2012 12:39
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@Clonkex,

What kind of experience do you have in development? Ogre is actually a pretty good rendering engine for game development. Actually it's amazing!

Take a look at NeoAxis. That uses Ogre and I've switched over to NeoAxis because of the capabilities of Ogre. On top of that it's allowed to learn C#.

Hey, if you are very keen to take on something like "FPSC Pro" then why not. What's stopping you? Heck, I'm a UI designer. I'd be happy to help out and dedicate a good portion of time to it.

I mean, what's stopping you from doing "FPSC Pro" while TGC works on FPSC2.

I presume FPSC2 will be written from scratch. This means tons of dev time has to be put into writing a new engine from scratch. So we won't see the likes of FPSC2 for at least another year.

Artrift.com - Digital Art Community | MyPixelbox.net - My Creative Blog
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Clonkex
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Posted: 1st Oct 2012 13:24 Edited at: 1st Oct 2012 13:28
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Quote: "What kind of experience do you have in development?"


Quite a lot. As a quick example, take a look the link in my signature. I've been programming with DBPro since May 2010, but before that I had a tiny bit of experience learning with Liberty Basic; I was pathetic back then. Even though 2 years doesn't sound like a lot, I've learned fast and I now know DBPro like the back of my hand, C++ nearly as well as DBPro (I'm still learning things like templates) and, to a far lesser extent, Python and JavaScript (I learned Python while trying to make a game using Blender Game Engine and JavaScript for Unity).

Quote: "Ogre is actually a pretty good rendering engine for game development. Actually it's amazing!"


Hence my choice to use it I made a spreadsheet listing all the requirements I had for FPSCPro, stuck in four engines (Ogre, Irrlicht, DBPro and Unity) and after putting "Yes" and "No" in the boxes I came out without a doubt that Ogre was what I needed.

Quote: "Take a look at NeoAxis. That uses Ogre and I've switched over to NeoAxis because of the capabilities of Ogre. On top of that it's allowed to learn C#."


I've played with pretty much every 3D game engine available, so I've already tried NeoAxis. I found it interesting, but I dislike C# so I didn't end up using it for anything.

Quote: "Hey, if you are very keen to take on something like "FPSC Pro" then why not. What's stopping you?"


THANKYOU! I'm glad you can see it from my point of view There's nothing stopping me at all, now that I've finally worked out how to get OIS to stop taking exclusive control of the mouse

Quote: "Heck, I'm a UI designer. I'd be happy to help out and dedicate a good portion of time to it."


Well...I'll think about it, but I'm fairly sure I want to design the UI myself. I've been using FPSCx9 for a long time and I know what needs to be done to make it better. But I'll definitely think about it, thanks

Quote: "I presume FPSC2 will be written from scratch. This means tons of dev time has to be put into writing a new engine from scratch. So we won't see the likes of FPSC2 for at least another year."


Ah, yes, I KNEW I'd thought of a reason that I could probably get FPSCPro done sooner than TGC Yes, and I've done many experiments using DBPro along the lines of FPSCPro (DBPro just lacked the speed and graphical capabilities necessary), so I already have a lot of the code design finished.

Thanks for the encouragement

Clonkex



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maho76
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Posted: 1st Oct 2012 14:20 Edited at: 1st Oct 2012 14:22
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i want to mention again SOUND-options, as keith said. as everyone is writing about gfx,gfx, its not half as important for atmosphere and connect game with player than SOUND is. the sound-handling in fpsc is a shame, as simple stereosound with direction is (nearly) not possible to do, not to think of 5.1 or other sfx.
fadable sound (scripting), directional sound depending on entity-to-cam-position, different sound-settings (scriptable) as echo, hallway, room, outdoor etc. is absolutely neccessary even before dynamic shadows and other gimmicks.

another thing is HD-Huds, placed (as it is) in percentage values so changing screen resolution is possible (via game-setup for the PLAYER, not only via editing the levelsetup.ini). its so lame to play a fpsc-game in full-hd/AA while huds are stretched up from 1024x768. totally ruins the optics.
and thinking of screen resolution the game´s GUI has needs an upgrade (defining keys, sound, gamma, brightness, mouse sensivity etcetc.)

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TriSpefear Studios
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Posted: 1st Oct 2012 14:20 Edited at: 1st Oct 2012 14:28
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@clonkex

I'm wasn't trying to sound like a jerk but i've only been on these forums for 11 months and i've seen countless people like you who says they can either make a new game engine or make a AAA game like Call of Duty. It's pretty hard to believe somebody without literal proof you have tremendous amounts of experience. Have you ever finished coding a video game by its self yet?

It's like what I learned months ago. Don't advertise if you have no prior experince or proof. This will make you sound less of a jerk when people learn that they were chasing smoke and mirrors

"Everyone may doubt me, but your just giving me more of a reason to continue on..."
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Clonkex
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Posted: 1st Oct 2012 14:37 Edited at: 2nd Oct 2012 09:36
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@TriSpefear Studios:

Quote: "I'm wasn't trying to sound like a jerk"


I'm always open to criticism, be it constructive or otherwise (so far it's all been constructive), and you didn't come across at all jerky to me

Quote: "i've only been on these forums for 11 months and i've seen countless people like you who says they can either make a new game engine or make a AAA game like Call of Duty. It's pretty hard to believe somebody without literal proof you have tremendous amounts of experience. Have you ever finished coding a video game by its self yet?"


I understand completely. I've said this before, but I can totally see how what I'm saying here seems like a distant fairy-land dream

I don't have tremendous amounts of experience; I have a fair amount, but I usually learn as I go. Placement Editor Professional, for example, was created while I learnt how to use AppGameKit and it turned out fine.

Either way, I'm not asking anyone to make any kind of donation or give me money, so none of you have anything to lose if I try to create this program.

It just occurred to me that many of you might be worried that I'll stop TGC from making FPSC2 by convincing them I can do it and then I'll fail and none of you will end up with anything. Well don't worry. As Lee said in an email, "FPSC2 is still a twinkle in Rick's eye at the moment", so even if TGC decide to go ahead with FPSC2 it won't be any time soon, and I've changed my mind about doing it for TGC; I'll just do it, and if I finish, I'll sell it. Simple.

Ok, time to get to work, people...

Clonkex



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uman
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Posted: 1st Oct 2012 15:56
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"it won't any time soon"

"time to get to work"

That seems to be about as accurate an assessment as you can get and not much more to be said.
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TIMON
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Posted: 1st Oct 2012 21:02
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Please can I know when we could expect a release date of fpsc2?
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uman
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Posted: 1st Oct 2012 21:30
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I doubt that will be possible for quite some time as there is nothing to quantify.

Updated FPSC, new FPSC, Alpha, Beta, EA, Full versions.

Nothing even to consider as a guess except what we know of various game engine developments on past experience.

Likely to be some years at least if there is anything to go on at all which there is not.

1-3, 3-5, 5-10 years. Take your pick. It may not even happen at all.

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unfamillia
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Posted: 1st Oct 2012 22:09
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@Clonkex

I say, go for it mate. If you are confident that you can achieve your goal, then i wish you well. I for one would be very interested and from the sounds of it, probably your first customer. I have had a quick play with NeoAxis and i like what i saw.

Why don't you make a thread about your progress, as you go along, showing improvements, proving everyone wrong! Plus, if TGC see 'one random guy' moving along with his project, showing them up, it might speed them up and actually get them working on FPSC2. You never know, they might even like what they see and ask you to join them!

Anyway, crack on and keep us updated.

Unfamillia


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TriSpefear Studios
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Posted: 1st Oct 2012 23:28 Edited at: 2nd Oct 2012 02:30
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Quote: "I don't have tremendous amounts of experience; I have a fair amount, but I usually learn as I go. Placement Editor Professional, for example, was created while I learnt how to use AppGameKit and it turned out fine."


make a twitter so you can post updates and other things. I would like to follow your progress

"Everyone may doubt me, but your just giving me more of a reason to continue on..."
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Dar13
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2012 00:22
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@Clonkex
Please please please use a source code versioning system like Git or SVN, so that you don't magically lose all the source code right before beta release(which happens a lot more often than you would think to FPSC WIPs).

Follow WTLD's progress on Twitter
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uman
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2012 01:45
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NeoAxis is OK as far as it goes and of course Torque is now free and open source I believe though none of these and others currently existing are quite the practical solution they seem for small indie developers.

Certainly they may well have some impact on the indie market, how it works and the distribution of users, though how indie games such as they are and how and with what tools they are made and deployed is perhaps in a greater state of flux now than ever before. More of that is to come I guess and hopefully users here can be a part of that if that is to be or not as the case may prove to be.

There is still a niche to be filled and someone will get there one day soon perhaps. Now is as good a time as ever with changes taking place. Opportunity knocks.

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CorrosionMedia
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2012 09:05
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@Clonkex

I'm sure TGS would dislike you calling the engine FPSCPro or anything derivative.
If you wished to call it this, I would very much recommend contacting TGC first.
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Clonkex
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2012 09:26
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@unfamillia:

Quote: "I say, go for it mate. If you are confident that you can achieve your goal, then i wish you well. I for one would be very interested and from the sounds of it, probably your first customer."


Thanks, I will

Quote: "I have had a quick play with NeoAxis and i like what i saw."


I'm using Ogre, not NeoAxis. NeoAxis might be a good example of what Ogre can do, but it's not what I'm using.

Quote: "Why don't you make a thread about your progress, as you go along, showing improvements, proving everyone wrong! Plus, if TGC see 'one random guy' moving along with his project, showing them up, it might speed them up and actually get them working on FPSC2. You never know, they might even like what they see and ask you to join them!"


lol yes I won't make thread until I have something useful to show, because otherwise everyone will get annoyed if I go slowly.

Quote: "Anyway, crack on and keep us updated."


Will do!

@TriSpefear Studios:

Quote: "make a twitter so you can post updates and other things. I would like to follow your progress"


I already have a twitter account, but I don't have internet on my computer (my parents won't let me) so I can't update anything as I'm typing. I'd rather just wait until it's worth looking at then show everyone in a WIP thread.

@Dar13:

Quote: "Please please please use a source code versioning system like Git or SVN, so that you don't magically lose all the source code right before beta release(which happens a lot more often than you would think to FPSC WIPs)."


You mean from HDD failure? Well, since I use a laptop as my dev PC, I tend to back it up more often, but I intend to use a cloud storage backup anyway I can't use SVN programs because I don't have internet on my computer.

@CorrosionMedia:

Quote: "I'm sure TGS would dislike you calling the engine FPSCPro or anything derivative.
If you wished to call it this, I would very much recommend contacting TGC first."


I think you'd be surprised. I almost guarantee that if my program is anything like FPSCx9 but better, they won't care if I use FPSCPro as the name. I have evidence to back it up, too (from an email from Lee himself):

Quote: "Even if we do FPSC2, there is nothing preventing you from making FPSCPro and showing us when it's done."


And anyway, if they don't like the name, I can always change it AFTER it's finished (I always allow for that to be done easily in my code).

But, as I often do, I'm wasting time here in the TGC Forums when I should be programming FPSCPro or riding dirt bikes.

Clonkex



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The Zombie Killer
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2012 10:23
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@Clonkex
I'll be looking forward to something like that, what physics engine are you planning to implement into FPSCPro?

@TGC
Voted, I'd definitely back an FPSC2! Just a question, will it have easy modding capabilities? So we won't have to buy another program with addons to make mods? This isn't a request, merely a suggestion.

-TZK


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Clonkex
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2012 11:56 Edited at: 2nd Oct 2012 12:04
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I'll be using either Bullet or PhysX, not the ultra-crappy ODE used in FPSCx9

Oh, and if I finish FPSCPro, it will be using only free products (VS C++ 2008 Express, Ogre, perhaps some free Ogre addons, etc.) so mod-making won't cost money

Clonkex



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