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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Retro Game Programming Competition

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ZomBfied
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 03:14
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Kangaroo2:

Holy Crap! I had no idea you were into making replicas like that! Neet!

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Matto
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 04:40
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I hate to mention but I was kinda hoping Patch 4 would be out in time for the Compy, some of the features it will add are ones I would like to use in the entry typical of my luck that.. the last bad luck I had with DB was when my most used commands went obsolete, I could have cried anyway I will enter with something, at least then you all have a chance not to be last because I will probably take that possition from you all.. I know, I know it's a little greedy, but if I head for last and get better I will be very happy!! oh and for a clue it's an old Acorn Electron Title beggining with "C" (and possibly other systems of that era, I'm not even going in to the year..)

have fun all

1ghz Cel,512 sdram 133,Gf2 MX 400 64,SBL 5.1,Win98
Best Upcoming MMOG - http://WWW.Atriarch.com
Project: Card Game with No Name
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 08:32
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Matto if you think about it Patch4 changes nothing really except the formats you use ... this means you can make your game in 1.03.1 then quickly switch to 1.04 when released in a few weeks as it does look likely to actually be released before the competition is out

Alrightly Kale :: takes of gauntlet and throws it at his feet :: i accept you challenge
i'll be trying my best here, but i've seen the main competition ... but personally don't think i have much of a chance. Gonna be more fun to see what results i can achieve in a month and a half

Anata aru kowagaru no watashi!
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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 10:52
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Thanks ZombB Actually I'm working on 2d and 3d engines to in theory make almost any game possible by changing variables, graphics etc. to speed up development of games

For the 2d one I'm going through all different types of games making sure they can be made to work accurately using just one core piece of code! - started off with simple pong, breakout, space invaders and pacman, then moved through slightly more complex 1s like mario, donkeykong, galaga and rtype, and now am at top levels of complexity, like Sonic (The physics are a b*tch), Lemmings and Worms (editable terrains) and 2d fighters, like Mortal Kombat and Street Fighter. The hope is that it will one day be able to cope with the v best examples of the genres - for example its all ver well making a Street Fighter 2 clone, but the same coding wouldn't touch somthing like Marvel Vs Capcom...

The 3d version is earlier in the design stages, at the mo it can only make simple FPS, 3rd person and racing games - kinda like t3dgm - yeuch! When its properly developed I'll expect all types of games to be possible - I want a Doom, Mario 64, FFVII, Daytona, Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, GTA3 and Virtua Fighter game all working b4 I'll b happy

lol anyway sorry to change the topic guys (if any1 has any question/enquiries anbout the engines I just mentionedd, best to email me or I'll start another topic - don't wanna take over this one ), this really is becoming an interesting competition already, I'll love to see what you guys (and gals) can come up with

I agree that Patch 4 would have been nice, to fix the pipeline and make really complex things possible...

Oh and Good luck Raven, don't put yourself down! Come on, show us all up, you know u want to

Coming Soon! Kangaroo2 Studio... wait and quiver with anticipation! lol
[email protected] - http://www.kangaroo2.com - If the apocalypse comes, email me
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Van B
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 11:36
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I think Patch 4 will be out in plenty time to use in the compo - thing is, .X format is the best right now for DBPro anyway, no matter what patch your using, so stick to .X and it'll all migrate nicely in a couple of weeks when P4 comes out. Myself and Simple are making a remake of the classic speccy game Jetpac - it's 20 years old this year, and was one of my favourite games growing up.

Competition is gonna be tough on this one.


Van-B
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 11:45
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Gotta agree with Van B here - use X objects and you'll have no translation issues when Patch4 hits.

"Oooh you have to release source? Argh I don't like that. People can nick it and change the graphics and pretend they did it"

No - you only release the source code to US (DBS). We do require it's released publically BUT you can haggle the terms with us (i.e. please don't release this function, etc). And we want the code ONLY - the media is all yours, so no-one can "rip" your graphics if you don't want them to.

We will NOT be awarding points for code structure, comments or anything because that's too subjective a matter.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 11:47
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ack i'm still wavering which i should go for right now and i think they're rubbing off onto Rose's game ... its only when i noticed i'd made Boltz's castle look like what i'm thinking of, i relised my minds on it a lil too much.

I'll probably be using a Memblock loader whatever format i go for, i generally do so doesn't matter i'll probably just adapt when patch4 trial is released (unless Amazon finally get my order right, so far i have 3copies of Terry Pratchets Hogfather ... would be all well and good but i order'd Jingo as its the only one i don't have)

my first choice right now is the game i grew up on - which is 21 this June and really the birth game of 3D (ya'll know what i'm talking about )

second choice is probably going to be Mario something nice and unimaginative (hehee)
with originality on the idea being high, i think it would be cool to remake something which can stand on its own two feet as a game of its own.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 11:52
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Rich - "We will NOT be awarding points for code structure, comments or anything because that's too subjective a matter"

yeah didn't think you would mark on the code, its more a curtosy to start how you mean to go on.
The code should preferably be in some sort of neat order with some vauge pointers to what does what ... else you guys will sit there for day commenting and cleaning it for newbies to check it out

and some peoples code around here, including my own at times isn't the most inteligable

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Van B
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 11:55
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I'm reading Jingo right now - Pratchett rocks! (Guards, Guards - is a must read) - Jingo is quite a weird book to read right now - it's about a war with Klatchians, who are erm... sorta middle eastern .


Van-B
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Simple
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 12:19
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quote:
well, i do have a feeling if raven goes "all out" on this competition he "could" be walking away with first prize!
END quote:

NO chance !!

And Kangaroo2 >> you've obviously been reading the wrong veggie posts then. I also think that your discription of veggie is WAY OFF !!

Quote:
He knows his stuff and is an excellent 3d artist, good 2d artist and certainly highly competant programmer
END quote:

I don't think so some how.

Kale is 100% correct .... he has never really produced anything, apart from what he wants people to think he produced.

Spec - AMD Athlon 1000mhz - 256mb DDR - Gforce2mx 400 TV out - 60gb HD - 19" Compaq - DVD rom - CDRW - AND SOON TO BE GFORCE4 !!
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Benjamin
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 14:12
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we are all good programmers. Its the IDEAS and then the hard work that counts. Anything can be done if you put your mind to it

xxxpetratxxx
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Dr OcCuLt
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 15:19
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i do not think eney one has the prize yet it all come down to the iders we have. we can all do a sonic clone and may be raven will do the best sonic clone.but then a nood wins be cos he did a SINCITY clone and we all did sonic clone!

i just have fun make my game i do`t i goto win but you have to try.

--Dr 0--
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xtom
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 15:33
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Cool compo, it's certainly generating a buzz. I think I'll enter but I don't know what game to base it on yet.
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TheCyborg
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 16:00
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Same problem here... I'll try to add an entry, but I have no idea of what to do or base it on.

Happy coding everyone!

TheCyborg Development.
http://TheCyborg.Amok.dk
The Ultimate Source To DarkBASIC Programming.
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Benjamin
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 16:09
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Im doing multiple games...all in one...

xxxpetratxxx
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Benjamin
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 16:11
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did I say that out loud?...

xxxpetratxxx
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hexGEAR
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 16:46
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i've got just 2 weeks to do mine! but watch out everyone, it's sure as hell gonna be addictive!

your birth was a blessing, sent to live and die on earth as a lesson, we each have a star all you have to do is find it, once you do, everyone who sees it will be blinded - DMX
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brittd
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 17:46
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Ok Kangaroo2,

Guess I am from a different erra but those are not Retro grames. None of those are hardly more then 10 years old. I think Mortal Combat came out around 93. Retro games to me are Pong, Astroids, Pac-man, Centipied, breakout, Robotron. The old Atari stuff. I guess before most of you here where even watching TV or some of you born. ;p
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Arrow
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 17:59
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I think some people around here are green with jealousy(pun intended).
If all you guys really think Raven Vegeta is just fluff, then prove it!!! Quit whinning like a noob trying to make a random number, and start coding. Here's your chance, use it!

Am I a butterfly dreaming I'm a man?
Or a bowling ball dreaming I'm a plate of samishi?
Never assume that what you see or feel is real.
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HukedOnPhonics
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 18:07
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[Quote]Retro games to me are Pong, Astroids, Pac-man, Centipied, breakout, Robotron. The old Atari stuff.[/Quote]

Lol.. dont forget yar's revenge or the old arcade game Scramble. Brittd you're aging some of us

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Van B
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 18:29
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Arrow,
Some would say this was Vegeta's chance to prove it - He's gotta finish a project sometime . Ohh, and Vegeta - BACKUP REGULARILY!!!.

Jetpac's the game for me - it's such rapid easy gameplay, makes it fun to work on, and it's 20 years old, so it can safely be called retro . The minute I heard about the compo, I thought Speccy - probably because it's where most of us (older users at least) started.


Van-B
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Raven Vegeta
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 18:40
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Vegeta cannot and will not win for many reasons:

- He's just talk ( cheap talk btw );
- If he is saying the truth about working at E.A ( which is not ) and win ( which is not probable either ) DB team will make a bad job cuz:
- Most peoples here are not professional
- Raven is uncapable to do something alone.. he would ask help to someone at E.A.
- He cannot win either, cuz probaly he will lose all his data or somes of his hard drives gonna get burned ( his cheap excuse for everything ).

That's it

Watashi wa Eletronic Arts de shigoto o shimasu!
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haggisman
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 21:58
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Shadow Robert cannot and will not win for one reason:

- He spends all his time on this forum talking about vegeta

nuff said

Specs:- 1GHZ athlon, Radeon8500, 192mb ram, winxp
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Raven Vegeta
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 22:02
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soooooooo funny . Nice to see Raven has a load of a*** lickers around . Besides, I never said I would compete, and to end up... It's Raven who stays in the forum putting his huge nose on everything... now, it's "nuff said "

Watashi wa Eletronic Arts de shigoto o shimasu!
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Van B
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 22:21
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In the immortal words of Nelson Munch:
"Stop hitting yourself!"


Van-B
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Benjamin
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 22:35
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Lets stop being jealous (or knowing Raven) and ACTUALY talk about the competition!

xxxpetratxxx
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Benjamin
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 22:38
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My 3D pac man is almost finished! Soon I will do some more games...

xxxpetratxxx
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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 23:00
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Simple: "He knows his stuff and is an excellent 3d artist, good 2d artist and certainly highly competant programmer"
- I stand by that statement simply because I know I am a good programmer - I have been doing it for around 15 years and can make some nice games - but if I ever get stuck (usually on something quite complex) I can IM Raven and he can either tell me the answer, or give an educated guess which is usually 90% spot on. Just speaking from experience. I'm not saying hes better than any1 else here cos I've not read their code or asked them questions

Petrat: "Im doing multiple games...all in one..."
ME TOO! Nice 1 Good luck m8

Britd: "Ok Kangaroo2, Guess I am from a different erra but those are not Retro grames. None of those are hardly more then 10 years old. I think Mortal Combat came out around 93. Retro games to me are Pong, Astroids, Pac-man, Centipied, breakout, Robotron. The old Atari stuff."
-Lol Man you think I don't remember those games? I own a 2600 and around 40 games, and an original PacMan Arcade machine!!! When I was 7 years old I used to program pacman and space invader clones on a 48k speccy However, Rich stated that for this competition, Rich stated that Retro meant ANYTHING Pre-PSX - He even said a Mario64 remake would count Newer games from the 16 biut era are arguably a lot more difficult to reproduce, let alone improve on. I saw the games I singled out as being more of a challenge

Coming Soon! Kangaroo2 Studio... wait and quiver with anticipation! lol
[email protected] - http://www.kangaroo2.com - If the apocalypse comes, email me
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Rob K
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 23:12
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@Rich

Can I ask you two questions:

1) I presume the format is irrelevant, as long as the game is pre-1995ish.

2) Sometimes some games such as Bomberman (NO - I am not making a BM clone!) have commercial releases after the cut-off period for retro. Can we still make games based on that format?

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
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Rob K
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 23:14
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^^ (my game is a 1993 one) - You really should add an edit button to these forums

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 23:17
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(^_^) retro is in the perception of who is making it really...

Retro for most of us is the CPC464, ZX-80, Eletron, etc...
whereas others would count NES & Master System as such...
I mean if you think about it Rich himself has mentioned the ST which is around as old as the SNES which is alot newer.

Right now i think the Rules are games Pre-Playstation (before 1994) and N64
As most N64 games are actually on the SNES, i mean isn't that much of a leap.

If you look at it the classic games have basis on the console before in the Retro games...

Mario64 -> Mario 1 & 3 (on nes and snes)
Zelda64 -> Zelda III (on the snes)
Lylat Wars -> Starwing (snes)
etc...

as the idea is to take a Retro game and add upon the base giving it an original aspect, this means if i based my game on say Mario ... then the natural evolution would be Mario64. However not quite original - is an interesting choice.

Right now i'm leaning towards an Elité remake, cause in my own eyes that was THE classic Retro game - right up there with Pong, PacMan and Space Invaders.

And really if you wanted to make the ULTIMATE Retro game, Space Wars was the first Computer Game ever.

2 Ships in Space, you turn on the spot and can move forward and fire. The idea to destory the other ship.
Kinda funny how many people think that pong was the first, when it was simply the first home console/game

Got bored and started a mario64 clone just to see about the movement being possible quickly ... be interesting to find out

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Rob K
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 23:35
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Yes... but those games (Space Wars) and so on have been done to the death.

The game I want to recreate / enhance was only a small shareware title but it was very addictive in the original format.

I am also thinking of including the original game in the download as it is pretty small and works on XP (although the directory / path must conform to 8.3) - Do you want me to do this Rich?

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
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PiratSS
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Hmmm, this is very interesting!

But here is a suggestion to all compedetors:

Make your code neat, edit few things you don't need, add comments.

why? well, people say it's not necessary, but imagine if you win and then you have toshow you spaggeti to everyone?

Especially all the noobs, what are they going to think?

You don't have to, but I will, just for the sake of it.

Cheers.

Specs: Dual Amd Athlon 2Ghz(1Ghz x 2), 40GB 15000 Rpm SCSI Hard Drive, 640 Mb 266Mhz DDR, 12x8x32 CDRW, ATI Rage Fury Pro 32Mb SD Video, 17' Monitor
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The admiral
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 23:38
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Hey i was wondering is doom1 classed as a retro game cause it really is old as.

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hexGEAR
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Posted: 5th Feb 2003 23:44
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yep, definately sure it is!

your birth was a blessing, sent to live and die on earth as a lesson, we each have a star all you have to do is find it, once you do, everyone who sees it will be blinded - DMX
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Benjamin
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Posted: 6th Feb 2003 00:02
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Space Wars? I think i remember that from the Atari ST in 1993...

xxxpetratxxx
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Kangaroo2
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I was thinking about making a doom remake - but If we can't use ripped graphics, that just means an fps game where you shoot mosters... Hmm retro DOOM is retro, and I love it - its just the actual FPS genre hasn't had a serious leap other than graphically since it (Please don't argue with me and mention Half life or Deus Ex ) so a graphically improved doom game won't feel retro... But hey, still do it, I'd love to see the results

"Mario64 -> Mario 1 & 3 (on nes and snes)"
Umm I'm sorry I know its pinickity but Super Mario Bros 1 and 3 were both NES based (unless you count the SNES or GB remakes) - the first SNES game was Super Mario World, essentially what people would prolly call Mario 4
Although I KNOW you knew that, I just had to point it out cause I'm a*a*y retentive lol

Coming Soon! Kangaroo2 Studio... wait and quiver with anticipation! lol
[email protected] - http://www.kangaroo2.com - If the apocalypse comes, email me
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 6th Feb 2003 00:24
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"I presume the format is irrelevant, as long as the game is pre-1995ish."

Yup

"Sometimes some games such as Bomberman have commercial releases after the cut-off period for retro. Can we still make games based on that format?"

Yup!

I'll stick with my pre-PSX policy for now. Let's face it, you've only got just under 2 months anyway - no-one is going to remake pretty much any N46+ onwards game in that space of time no matter how good they are. You want something small, playable and quick to get up and running - so you've time to refine it. Visit some emulation sites, look at some screen shots, play some classics on Java/Flash applets - it won't take more than an hour or two on the 'net to find some good examples you can base your game on.

As for it being based on some obscure old Shareware title - that's fine! As long as you can show us the original game so we can compare them, we'll be happy.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
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solo
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Posted: 6th Feb 2003 01:03
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I have 2 questions:

1. The Archived game should be less than 10 MB.
Does it mean zipped(src,media) or zipped exe?

2. I assume we may use DLLs (3rd party commands):
should we send their src too?

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Richard Davey
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Posted: 6th Feb 2003 01:15
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1 - Yes it means zipped. If it unzips to a hundred meg we don't care (well, we don't mind much! we'd just be impressed with your compression rate )

2 - Yes if you include the source, otherwise we have no way of telling how much of the game you're handing over to another process to deal with.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
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hexGEAR
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Posted: 6th Feb 2003 01:33
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hmm, i think that was a little too many clues, well, if i've got the time, i'm sure gonna pull it off!

your birth was a blessing, sent to live and die on earth as a lesson, we each have a star all you have to do is find it, once you do, everyone who sees it will be blinded - DMX
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Rob K
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Thanks Rich.

About the source code - given the time limit I may not have time to set up a full level editing system and so on as planned so I will hard-code it (possibly - depending on time). If we send you an app can we improve the code and modify it before release (eg two weeks or so)

NOBODY has a forum name as stupid as Darth Shader. I do.
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Matto
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Posted: 6th Feb 2003 02:11
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raven V: "Matto if you think about it Patch4 changes nothing really except the formats you use ... this means you can make your game in 1.03.1 then quickly switch to 1.04 when released in a few weeks as it does look likely to actually be released before the competition is out"

Yes I agree with you there, but I caught wind of there being object to limb collision and stuff on it too, aswell as the change in object formats, thats what I am after.. this would save me years of writting crap collision code , in the mean time I will use DB V1 as I have a terrible time with objects in DBP(probably my fault..) and I am not too well off for time to deal with that at the mo.

On another note, something tells me there will be a good few entrants.. damn I am going to have to work hard on this.. still writting the concept out for mine.. I can't help feeling I am lagging somewhat!

1ghz Cel,512 sdram 133,Gf2 MX 400 64,SBL 5.1,Win98
Best Upcoming MMOG - http://WWW.Atriarch.com
Project: Card Game with No Name
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Shadow Robert
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Posted: 6th Feb 2003 03:59
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Collision i've noticed is alot easier when you realise how it is being achieved...
it is all well and good to use the built in collision - but when you import a model format of your own, then you have at your diposal the entire setup of the model, from the Mesh's downto the Vertex and Skin Vertex which allows you to check for collision in any means you feel like and however you like

it save alot of time when you simple array the vertex positional information and then check to see if the vertex position is there or not ... rather than wondering why the box collision need to be slide into place so it never stops

The simplest route is often the best one, though you may think that something like Vis would be difficult and time consuming, its quite simple to make a rountine that exports a worlds Vertex into Visual Groups, then you simply use that array to rebuild the world in a memblock and show based on your position ... easi as pie

spending around 3-4days doing that with something to compile standard X formats into it, will means you can make bigger and brighter worlds quicker rather than doing some half-assed attempt. Plus on the position of collision you get as much flexability as you would from a model which is arrayed

knowing roughly howto spend the time without a veiw to the quickest visible results is a good strategy at times.
Alot of people appear to be to impatient though and sit there debugging code for days on end cause of it

Atleast i'll be starting completely fresh here from a brand new OS installation with a clean HDD so anything i'm creating will be within the next month and a half ... no relying on old projects to speed up my development time.

I'm gonna love seeing what happens, however as for the DLLs will be interesting to have them as open source too
10Mb Zipped is quite a large amount of stuff we can have so this should be alot of fun.

Tsu'va Oni Ni Jyuuko Fiori Sei Tau!
One block follows the suit ... the whole suit of blocks is the path ... what have you found?
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Van B
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Posted: 6th Feb 2003 11:44
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Can we use .rar archives? - I mean we could make a self extracting WinRAR executable, but put it in a zip.

The reason I ask is that DBPro executables seem to compress much smaller with WinRAR than WinZip (In some cases as much as double the compression).


Van-B
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denki
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Posted: 6th Feb 2003 12:01
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Something V.important - Does it have to be a FULL game, say I do an old RPG, could I cut it off, like a long demo or something?

denki
Kousen DPB RPG latest - Working on editors!
http://dblow.co.uk
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 6th Feb 2003 12:53
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RAR? Certainly. To be honest I don't care if you cat, tar and gunzip it - so long as it's under 10megs somehow

denki - no, it doesn't have to be a full game. But I would urge you to use your common sense when planning it. We're not going to award 1st prize to a small sprite that walks around a map and can enter one or two buildings - there has to be something in there, it has to show some potential of becoming a full game or at least offer a complete subquest.

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
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Benjamin
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Posted: 6th Feb 2003 13:57
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This competition is fun...but I have a little problem with my 3D pac man...the AI and the collision. Dont worry about it though! Ive got some other GREAT ideas upmy sleve(s).

This was a great one:
Centepide / Millipide - Atari games...

xxxpetratxxx
B. R. W
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Richard Davey
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Posted: 6th Feb 2003 14:05
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Just to get you started you can use this AI concept for the ghosts (I did this on my first pacman game back on the ST) - make it so that 2 of the ghosts when they hit a junction they always turn left and make the other 2 always turn right. If there is no left/right turn then inverse this. They won't be "chasing" pacman in this sense but they'll cover the whole maze in a very short period of time and it gets you some mild intelligence up and running to begin testing with.

The next move on would be to segment the maze into zones and detect for pacmans presense in each zone. If he's in the top left for example (say zone 1) then the ghosts just need to know to turn left/right in order to get to that zone quickest. Once they're within a certain distance from him they need to follow his movements (just like the real game). But that's another matter

Cheers,

Rich

"Gentlemen, we are about to short-circuit the Universe!"
DB Team / Atari ST / DarkForge / Retro Gaming
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Kangaroo2
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Posted: 6th Feb 2003 14:33
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Hey Rich you read my mind thats how I did it My Pacman only has 1 level and its very simple, its just one of many of the playable things... This is coming on quite well Worried about the 10 meg thing, but I'll try

Coming Soon! Kangaroo2 Studio... wait and quiver with anticipation! lol
[email protected] - http://www.kangaroo2.com - If the apocalypse comes, email me
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