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Work in Progress / MMO War Game - Plx Test It

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zzz
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Posted: 13th Aug 2007 20:54
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Ouch, my graphics card went mad(72ºC) when the game tried to connect to the server.

WII number: 8220 5043 6939 7393
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Dark Dragon
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Posted: 13th Aug 2007 21:06 Edited at: 13th Aug 2007 21:07
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@zzz
Woah!!

well im gonna try and get my dad to take down the proxy
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GatorHex
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Posted: 13th Aug 2007 21:12 Edited at: 13th Aug 2007 21:15
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Quote: "Ouch, my graphics card went mad(72ºC) when the game tried to connect to the server."


Thats probably normal under full load, mine sits at around 72c and don't max out and start slowing down until it reaches about 130c.

Lead solder don't start melting until it reaches 200-300c

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
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dark coder
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Posted: 13th Aug 2007 22:15
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I've been trying to make an account for the past 10 mins and keep getting a 'Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at 81.174.154.100.' error, what's up with that? *unplugs Gator's life support and plugs server back in*

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GatorHex
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Posted: 13th Aug 2007 22:35 Edited at: 13th Aug 2007 23:18
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Woops, looks like Perl/Apache is down, hold on...

[It's running now]

I wrote a Delphi program to check and restart it but I wasn't running it, doh!

Now i need a program to check I've not forgotten to start the program that check if it's running

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
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GatorHex
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Posted: 14th Aug 2007 00:56 Edited at: 14th Aug 2007 00:57
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A freeky screenshot! I swear it did it on it's own and was not planned or contrived!



DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
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Diggsey
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Posted: 14th Aug 2007 01:26
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lol


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Code Dragon
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Posted: 14th Aug 2007 03:51 Edited at: 19th Jan 2009 21:45
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Cool. Think that happened to someone else before, search for "coolest program ever"

Your signature has been erased by a mod - mediafire image wasn't found
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greenlig
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Posted: 14th Aug 2007 04:25
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I didn't know this was going so well!! Damn I have some experience to start accruing!

Looks great Gator.

Greenlig

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dark coder
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Posted: 14th Aug 2007 05:14
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Well I just woke up and tried to make an account and get the same error, I demand my money back

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greenlig
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Posted: 14th Aug 2007 05:17 Edited at: 14th Aug 2007 05:50
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Hmm..same. I get "The server at 81.174.154.100 is taking too long to respond." error message.

Any tips?

Greenlig

EDIT - Working now. Watch out for the duffman! hehe

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GatorHex
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Posted: 14th Aug 2007 05:56
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Sorry I was running my stress tests on the encryted version and didn't want any interuptions.

The server is back up and running now.

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
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dark coder
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Posted: 14th Aug 2007 06:08
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Well I tried to play this :/. First off why does my username need to be different to my game name? Then trying to login was a pain i.e. it didn't work, first attempt it asked me for the 6th letter of my fact yet it was only 4 letters then logging in just spammed my screen with waiting for a response. Why do you need all that just to login? I just want to try the game

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Dr Manette
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Posted: 14th Aug 2007 06:14
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I know what you mean, darkcoder. I think that's the worst part of the game, but seeing as he's trying to go for encryption, I can understand. I still think there should be a balance between user friendly and security, however.


BioFox Games...http://www.biofoxgames.com
Life after death http://www.biofoxgames.com/comic/index.php
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dark coder
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Posted: 14th Aug 2007 10:57
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Well I finally managed to get it to run. What happened to the client simulation I talked about? even attacking the bot was most difficult, when I press up I expect my tank to move instantly, I fail to see why you have not or will not implement this as it will not compromise security in any way. Perhaps someone who lives on the other side of the planet should host a game for you to join.

Secondly, the ping/latency readout doesn't work, it merely displays the elapsed time since you last sent a packet, this is evident as I can mash keys and it says I have 0 ping, or if I hold up it keeps increasing.

Still needs lots of work before it will be playable outside of ideal(LAN) conditions.

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Diggsey
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Posted: 14th Aug 2007 12:13
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@Dark coder
It's perfectly playable, it just depends what time you log on. Most of the time, the movement (as far as you can tell) is instant Also, it says you live in Japan, and that's not going to help the lag


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GatorHex
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Posted: 14th Aug 2007 12:17 Edited at: 14th Aug 2007 12:23
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Quote: "First off why does my username need to be different to my game name?"


If "Bob" who you fight has "Bob" as his username, if you want to stop him playing and getting future exp you try to hack his account and get it locked after 3 attempts. Now Bob is denied service by an account lock!


Quote: "balance between user friendly and security"


This is a project about security and the two factor authentication system is borrowed from banking. There are many examples of stolen virtual data and this is one way to address this.


Quote: "I expect my tank to move instantly, I fail to see why you have not or will not implement this as it will not compromise security in any way."


The terminal-server mode is an attempt to solve the the problem that Warrock has with clients lieing. One of the biggest complaints is that user X is using a lag cheat or special abilities due to a cheat tool. As your lag is reflected back at you this makes the Async cheat un-usable. As you do't have any effect over the game it makes cheats un-usable. It is a long way between USA-UK and even if I play a commercial USA server I suffer lag. Wifia and 56k are also a big no-no for gaming. I can solve the jerkyness by killing stale packets and smoothing but it's not a security issue so i don't have time for it right now.


Quote: "Secondly, the ping/latency readout doesn't work"


It's kinda got broken over the versions and wasn't an important fix. I'll see what i can do with it.

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
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dark coder
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Posted: 14th Aug 2007 12:18
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Quote: "Also, it says you live in Japan, and that's not going to help the lag"


This is true, however I can quite happily play a scrim in CS:S on a UK server (270-300ping) because the game uses client simulation / dead reckoning and many other things that make ping less relevant. If CS:S didn't use any of these things then it would be very annoying to play on anything over 50-100ping.

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GatorHex
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Posted: 14th Aug 2007 12:29 Edited at: 14th Aug 2007 14:26
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OMG Counter Strike is full of cheats just as bad as Warrock.

Also I'm not sure it's client-tcp-server with 100s of players, isn't it peer-udp-peer which limits the number of players to about 16 per world? A peer to peer could be sending you packets fro anywhere in the world even if their lobby is in the UK.

It's like compairing buses to cars and saying cars are faster. They don't do the same job. CS is not a MMO

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
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MadrMan
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Posted: 14th Aug 2007 12:53
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But i can connect to CS and not to your tank game. it just hangs at the connecting screen. tried it 8 times.
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dark coder
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Posted: 14th Aug 2007 12:58 Edited at: 14th Aug 2007 13:00
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Quote: "OMG Counter Strike is full of cheats just as bad as Warrock. "


Have you even played it?

Plus it sounds like you have no idea what client simulation is, and no it will not affect security in any way. Basically what I'm saying is in ADDITION to your current method of sending all keystrokes to the server, and the server currently simulates every client based on these inputs which is fine. However why do the clients themselves not simulate their movements? If I hold F1 I expect my turret to turn around instantly, heck I'm sure I could even edit the rotational value to do this, but as you know the server does not think your turret is at this rotation so it does not become a problem. What I'm saying is that when I press a movement key I SHOULD see movement no matter what my ping is, or even if I'm connected to the server, if the server thinks I'm cheating then it can send the client correctional packets like it does now. I fail to see how you could think this allows people to hack.

Not to mention no DECENT online game in the universe(yes eve isn't decent) uses this type of system, at least in the form of a realtime combat game.

The reason why games like war rock and these other games suck is because the server does not simulate the player's movement and input thus it has little to no way of checking if their movements are legit, this is NOT what I am saying.

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GatorHex
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Posted: 14th Aug 2007 14:30 Edited at: 14th Aug 2007 14:49
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Quote: "Have you even played it?"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq3xT4J-omo&mode=related&search=

At least speed hack don't work with my system In my report it will say latency is doubled and laggers don't like seeing their own lag

Seriously dude you're compairing a non-MMO, million $ game, made by a team of 100s with something a single student did in a couple of months, Chill it's an experiment!

Quote: "But i can connect to CS and not to your tank game. it just hangs at the connecting screen. tried it 8 times. "


Other people have connected to it, try opening port 3999 and letting the game outside your computer.

Code Dragon is in the USA and diggsey is in the UK but they still manage to own me at the game

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
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dark coder
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Posted: 14th Aug 2007 14:44
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The difference between that video and your game is that FPS games require a twitch / mouse based movement system so aimbots are very easy to make, even with your system you can make an aimbot, obviously not that elaborate but one that's very accurate and auto tracks targets.

Also no you're the one who compared it to Warrock/CS. If your game used a mouse based control system then making hacks would be much easier. You essentially cannot stop Aimbots / Wallhacks in these types of games, you can only make it harder to use them.

However things like running faster than you're supposed to or flying into the sky is impossible with the source engine as it uses a very similar to method than your game(if you read the networking docs) they just have much more features that make the game more playable.

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GatorHex
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Posted: 14th Aug 2007 15:31
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Mouse shooting was one of the first things i threw out the window. Like let me point to any position in 3D space almost instantly and then tell the name of the player my cursor is over so know i have a target LOL.

DBP games have a serious problem because there are internal lists of objects values like locations, collision and sizes. It makes it very hard to protect, even if i encrypt my own values DBPs are clear to see!

I took the idea of running the game at the server end from online gambling as it's the only way to guarantee somone cannot subvert the game.

There are pros and cons with every system, I wanted the pro of no cheating but the con is double the latancy.

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
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greenlig
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Posted: 15th Aug 2007 03:23
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I would agree that client simulation would be a nice touch. Some instant feedback would be good for the controls. THAT said, my net connection has been shaped back, and that could play a very large role in my latency issues! On the 19th I will test again at full speed!!

greenlig

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MadrMan
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Posted: 15th Aug 2007 12:44
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you broke it with that update?

If i run it now it says no updates are required and then says it modiefied WarClient.exe and quits. Just keeps repeating that.
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GatorHex
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Posted: 15th Aug 2007 13:25 Edited at: 15th Aug 2007 14:43
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Damn found a bug, dont download or play im doing another update upload :/

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
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MadrMan
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Posted: 15th Aug 2007 14:42
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It tries to connect now but i still have the same problem.
it just spams my screen full with "Trying to get a response from game server" in half a second and stays there.
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GatorHex
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Posted: 15th Aug 2007 14:46 Edited at: 15th Aug 2007 15:00
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You should be able to connect, i just did, but i've found a bug in the shooting and im fixing that now :/

This security thing is a realy bind, it takes me ages to do an update and if I forget to do one thing it stops it working -.-

[Update finish should work good now... i hope!]

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
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GatorHex
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Posted: 15th Aug 2007 18:45
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I've made an update that sends out a new login packet every 10 seconds until it get a response from the server.

see if you can login better with that, im wondering if there are too many hops between the client and the server and the packet is dropped by a router somewhere along the way :/

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
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GatorHex
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Posted: 15th Aug 2007 22:01 Edited at: 17th Aug 2007 05:27
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[Updated Client]

Tests if you have a shader 2.0 graphics card!

Tests is you have Windows Firewall and pokes hole in it!

Will pester the server to login every 10 seconds if it's still waiting.

Two Factor authentication don't ask for a character beyond the size of your favorite fact.

Fixed destroyed tank positioning problem.

Hopefully more people will be able to log on with all of the above

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
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Dr Manette
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 04:56
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Gator, could you reveal what you use for this game (aka dlls, server type). I've been fooling with a similar idea but am not sure which method and dlls would work best.


BioFox Games...http://www.biofoxgames.com
Life after death http://www.biofoxgames.com/comic/index.php
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GatorHex
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Posted: 20th Aug 2007 05:19 Edited at: 20th Aug 2007 05:28
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multisync DLL for network (i run it as terminal server though to stop cheating)
Cattle Rustlers DLL for the MySQL database (player files)
Unity LUA DLL for world objects (so i can change them without recompiling)
my own DarkFish DLL for encryption (so packets cannot be read)

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
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Spyke
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Posted: 21st Aug 2007 09:44
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Nice Game Eddy!<thumbs up>

Ace
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Virtual Nomad
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Posted: 28th Aug 2007 04:27 Edited at: 28th Aug 2007 04:31
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gatorhex - downloaded today. first connect stalled at favorite authorization. reconnected fine on 2nd attempt (ended prog and reloaded). i hear ping is not accurate so won't report. my shots were accurate enough; enemy/bot shot wasn't as i took damage from what i saw as obvious misses; expecting lag issue since i'm west coast U.S.. also, no collision on buildings or debris, right? cause i went right through those, or is that lag also?

3 thoughts:

1) seems when people are trying to log in when you're testing/server is down, you could have "server status" displayed easy enough either in-client or on the home page @ login.

2) i know you're striving for strong security with this project so i'll suggest re-entry of password or favorite character randomly (but not often enough to be annoying) during game play. i suppose that could be hacked if it was a simple prompt so maybe, to re-spawn, you offer 3 targets with one displaying the correct "favorite character" that must be shot as confirmation a bot isn't being run on client end.

3) did i miss it or do you plan on offering host versions so regional play (and lan) can occur?

nice work. good to see functional MP action being developed in DBPro!

edit:

i should mention i don't have 2.0 shader gfx card and it ran fine. i know it checks, but does it disable if not found? and, maintained 30+ fps.

system specs:
amd xp1800 (1.6ghz) w/ 1.5 gb ram
radeon 8700le 128mb
cable internet

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Squelchy Tom
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Posted: 30th Aug 2007 17:20
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In the future will we be able to use alternative weapons such as machine guns mounted on the tanks? Will we be able to use vehicles like those on the title banner, such as the humvee model ?

Looking great so far, cant wait to see finished thingy, downloading the demo now.
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GatorHex
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Posted: 30th Aug 2007 21:39
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It's just a test game to prove my theories on protecting online games from cheats. I have no plans to take this further as my Uni will probably turn around and say they own it

So to avoid all that I'll start a new game.

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
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Accoun
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Posted: 30th Aug 2007 22:32
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Quote: ".pl"
GatorHex, what file format is it??? Never seen this one.

Make games, not war.

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GatorHex
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Posted: 31st Aug 2007 00:08 Edited at: 31st Aug 2007 01:14
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Poland... er um.. Perl, much nicer than PHP and ASP in my opinion

back in the day when I learned server side scripting PHP was full of security holes and ASP only ran on Windows boxes. Both problem are probably solved by now though.

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
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jason p sage
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Posted: 5th Sep 2007 22:59
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Wow - Perl Web - DECENT! I made true executable CGI in Freepascal - and my own web server from scratch so I don't have to worry about any attacks that would try to run my exe's or anything. Works faster than IIS, Apache, ASP, and naturally all the .Net Stuff.

I wonder if I should make a MMOG "Web Server" just to host the games - no front end - just straight Server Actions - logging people in - and routing packets. Hmmm....

Who is UNI by the way and why can you game become theirs? that stinks! I know you said you're moving on - but you started quite the app here - Also - you mentioned if I wanted to make mine multi-player I should start it with that from the beginning. SO.... I've decided to rewrite Iron Infantry totally in C++ to bring up FPS is possible - Quite the "jump" and a risk if its not the code that is slow - and just my video card ... but I'll take the risk

So you really think I should work out the multi-player first before getting the game stuff cranking?

Thanx in advance!


http://www.jasonpetersage.com/?PAGE=jpsmain&SECTION=IRONINFANTRY
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jason p sage
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Posted: 5th Sep 2007 23:17
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Oh - and with regards to your debate about aim bots, lag, hackers, etc.

How come you can't make something where #1 - packets are encrypted and #2 - the server sends "Average" Ping occassionally and compares it to a Client Side "Average" Ping. If they don't jive - then maybe a cheat is going on where positions of others are getting to client, but client is withholding.

Disguise this system in normal gameplay packets so they aren't filtered (maybe...maybe not necessary) somehow... and then if the client "game" finds to many Ping Average inconsistances - it turns "Gamer" status from "Squeaky Clean" to "Possible LAN issues" to "Possibly Corrupt Dude" to "Cheater" or "Bot" next to their username hovering over tank or whatever.


http://www.jasonpetersage.com/?PAGE=jpsmain&SECTION=IRONINFANTRY
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GatorHex
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Posted: 5th Sep 2007 23:18 Edited at: 5th Sep 2007 23:21
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Having a server that just relays is the easiest and fastest but that kind of system does struggle to stop cheating.

I thought about going the C+= route but after testing that Star Wars game i didn't realy thing it was noticably faster and worth the effort.

Here the law if if you work for some they own the invention. However i pay the university so I guess they work for me. So i don't think it would stand up in court. However just to be on the safe side I made something quick, simple and disploable. I realy want to take on Google in the search engine field, I've got some nice ideas in that area, and I might stop game making for a while.

I like PERL it can be run interprited or compiled run on linux or MS and it does everything even working at the packet level.

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 6th Sep 2007 06:11
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No offense GatorHex, but You Vs. Google is Ant Vs. Black Hole. Money wise, it's more like (Assuming you have this much to spend) $1,000 Vs. $1,000,000,000. Plus most people use Google because of it's name. Try to think of a simple to remember, easy to recite name. Something simple, and that's one word. www.search.com is taken too, I believe.


Cheers,

-naota

DBP, $80. DBP's plugins, $320. Watching DBP Crash, Priceless.
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GatorHex
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Posted: 6th Sep 2007 07:36 Edited at: 6th Sep 2007 08:07
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Europe needs a decent search engine not under the thumb of USA.

It is my mission, it is my dream, it will be done

I just added http://www.nuclearglory.com to kumkie.com, try entering "damn t-shirt" or "Nuclear Glory" in my search engine

LOL nice keywords. "3D Game Creation" might get more hits though.

I just saw a yahoo bot "Yahoo! Slurp" on Aex.Uni still working on my auto search bot.

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
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Aaron Miller
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Posted: 6th Sep 2007 08:55 Edited at: 6th Sep 2007 08:58
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heh heh.

Glad you like my site, and nuclear glory. Well, a new search engine would be nice, I don't like google's new format! I mean, the Web, Image, etc, stuff at the top is really annoying!

Good luck.


Edit
I just tried it. It's pretty cool. Good luck with the auto search bot, then you'll get more websites in. btw, you should add my website.


Cheers,

-naota

DBP, $80. DBP's plugins, $320. Watching DBP Crash, Priceless.
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GatorHex
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Location: Gunchester, UK
Posted: 6th Sep 2007 09:16
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I tried to add Aex.Uni but it wouldn't read your forum just gave an error.

I'll have to figure out why later

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
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Aaron Miller
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Playing: osu!
Posted: 6th Sep 2007 11:22
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Okay.

Cheers,

-naota

DBP, $80. DBP's plugins, $320. Watching DBP Crash, Priceless.
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jason p sage
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Posted: 6th Sep 2007 13:44
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@GatorHex - what language was the star wars game written in?

Also - don't lose your dream bro!

And that thing you said about "over here" who you work for and all that? That is lame if you do it at home - should count!

That could make one not be motivated to ever do anything above and beyond

Well - you're a great programmer anyway bro - off to a greaT start - so keep at it!

And - speaking for myself anyways - I'm all for you making games!
Jason


http://www.jasonpetersage.com/?PAGE=jpsmain&SECTION=IRONINFANTRY
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GatorHex
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Posted: 7th Sep 2007 02:37 Edited at: 7th Sep 2007 02:39
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I was talking about the Starwrs game on these forums written in C++/DGDK.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&b=8&t=107303&p=0

I dunno what the polycount is on the screen, but it didn't seemt to run any faster than a DBP project to me.

I'm just happy programming. It don't matter what it is. I'd like to write an online game but I can't see how I'll be able to afford the bandwidth for it.

I'm not gona give up on programming. I been testing some of the DBP competitors, and i think BB may be a little faster, check out this little tank game I found http://www.alsbonsai.com/john/BattleTanksII.zip I'm sure you'll like it

DinoHunter (still no nVidia compo voucher!), CPU/GPU Benchmark, DarkFish Encryption DLL, War MMOG (WIP), 3D Model Viewer
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jason p sage
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Posted: 7th Sep 2007 03:31
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@GatorHex - You ARE CORRECT! Thanx for that - that was a VERY fun tank game indeed!!!!!

Also, - the Star wars speed thing - I'm doing all kinds of terrain tests (in vb) to get an idea how to best use T.Ed3 - and then I plan to move on to C++. I'm thinknig a video card does what it can but the code inbetween I can speed up.

So things that are obviously video - like I shrink landscape and frame rates go up - but only to a point. then I lower the number of AI and stuff going one - and it goes up more. THAT second part I may be able to fix with C++ I HOPE... and the first part - I will try to keep manageable by "Settings" for poor and quality cards. Will I get there soon? No... I must love programming also!


cheers Bro!


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