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FPS Creator X10 / Extended License cost

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AlanC
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Posted: 10th Nov 2007 02:12 Edited at: 11th Nov 2007 02:00
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Thanks a lot TGC for agreeing to this new deal.

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Uthink
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Posted: 10th Nov 2007 17:49
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Quote: "Wow I am totally heartbroken, I just got a new comp yesterday that can't run X10 because I got a 7800GT and XP all because of the license and now this"


Why can't you exchange it for another computer?

"I'm trying to find new ways to make this game more attractive." - Dennis Rodman
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Black Terror
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Posted: 10th Nov 2007 18:54
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Or sell your graphics card and buy a new one and Vista.


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Orrion Carn
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Posted: 10th Nov 2007 20:16
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Hey, quick question:

So, every time I make a title (Game) I have to buy a new License?

Like, I have 4 games, do I need to buy 4 Licenses or just one?


Click here to join my design team, EARTH PRODUCTIONS
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Black Terror
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Posted: 10th Nov 2007 20:17
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No, the license is for the FPSC X10 program and applys for all games.


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Orrion Carn
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Posted: 10th Nov 2007 20:24
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Cool. Thanks BT


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Fiberfrag
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Posted: 10th Nov 2007 21:08
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I think this is very fair...

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Orrion Carn
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Posted: 10th Nov 2007 23:49
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Where can I buy this lisence if I needed it?


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AlanC
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Posted: 11th Nov 2007 02:00
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@ Orrion Carn:

Its probly not avaible yet because the engine is not out yet.

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LeeBamber
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Posted: 11th Nov 2007 05:07
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Thanks for the feedback guys, and don't be afraid to believe you can sell thousands of units of your X10 game. There are MILLIONS of people out there right now with Vista and DX10, with almost no DX10 games to play. Pull together the right story, gameplay, graphics and sound and you're half way there! A $10 game does not have to be an epic, it just needs to have something special that you can sell to a specific group within the gaming world. And put as much effort into selling as developing too. Target a certain group of people with something they want to pay for. Use YouTube to show off videos of your game, throw screenshots all over the place, links in every game website going, demo version to all the download sites, coverdisc demos and game reviewers. Offer every kind of version of your game from a free demo, to an online sale to nipping down the post office with a freshly burned CD. Many game authors are quite content to create games simply for the fun of it. There are others of course, who want to make it mega big, and the best way to do that is to just do it. If you aim high, eventually you learn to fly Have fun and happy creating!

"Small, smart, and running around the legs of dinosaurs to find enough food to survive, bedroom programmers aren't extinct after all "
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Slayer222
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Posted: 11th Nov 2007 16:31
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Quote: "Why can't you exchange it for another computer?"
Because I bought it second hand for cash off of Used Victoria. I will upgrade eventually but I will need some cash for 2GB stick of RAM, Vista and of course an 8800GT. Lee, if you aim too high you may stall I think if you worked real hard you might be able to sell a ton of games. But slapping a game together won't work very well, I bet. This sounds like a quality product and in a year I should be able to get it
*Slayer_2

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Check it out here: http://eliteops.piczo.com/?cr=6&rfm=y
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Orrion Carn
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Posted: 12th Nov 2007 02:57
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Thanks for this Lee:

Quote: "Thanks for the feedback guys, and don't be afraid to believe you can sell thousands of units of your X10 game. There are MILLIONS of people out there right now with Vista and DX10, with almost no DX10 games to play. Pull together the right story, gameplay, graphics and sound and you're half way there! A $10 game does not have to be an epic, it just needs to have something special that you can sell to a specific group within the gaming world. And put as much effort into selling as developing too. Target a certain group of people with something they want to pay for. Use YouTube to show off videos of your game, throw screenshots all over the place, links in every game website going, demo version to all the download sites, coverdisc demos and game reviewers. Offer every kind of version of your game from a free demo, to an online sale to nipping down the post office with a freshly burned CD. Many game authors are quite content to create games simply for the fun of it. There are others of course, who want to make it mega big, and the best way to do that is to just do it. If you aim high, eventually you learn to fly Have fun and happy creating!
"


That gave me hope to sell my X10 games. Thanks.



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Dr Parsnips
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Posted: 12th Nov 2007 11:47 Edited at: 12th Nov 2007 18:49
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Thats great! what a company, they listen to their consumer and adjust accordingly. That is Just brilliant! now we can distribute our games how we feel and if it is good enough to make $5000 than we only have to pay $1000 dollars, and lets face facts if it makes $5000 it will probably keep on selling to make more. so really there is no big deal about the extended license cost anymore! WHOOP!

-------(edit)----------
Is this the same for the original fpsc? Come to think of it i can't remember the original Fpsc extended license agreement?

HMMMMMMM
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Storm 6000
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Posted: 13th Nov 2007 15:16
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Quote: "Is this the same for the original fpsc? Come to think of it i can't remember the original Fpsc extended license agreement? "
No there is no extended licence for the orginal you can sell as much as you like at no extra cost but you do have the mention TGC and FPS Creator, read the licence

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FredP
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Posted: 13th Nov 2007 16:13
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Are you another of those that has an issue with giving TGC some kind of credit since you are using their engine.If someone used your stuff wouldn't you want some kind of credit?

Please have mercy and use the search function.
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BULLSHOCK 2
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Posted: 13th Nov 2007 18:11
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not if they paid for it

check ECS and WCS licenses lol


but im happy with the new x10 license.

http://www.seqoiagames.com
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shadow651
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Posted: 13th Nov 2007 19:23
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Quote: "Are you another of those that has an issue with giving TGC some kind of credit since you are using their engine.If someone used your stuff wouldn't you want some kind of credit?"

i don't think he meant it like that he was just explaining it to Parsnips

Lee is right we will some of the first to develop for X10 and we'll be the first indie developers to do it
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Dr Parsnips
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Posted: 14th Nov 2007 00:39
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Yeh i think he was just explaining it, anyway thanks for clearing that up for me!

HMMMMMMM
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fallen one
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Posted: 14th Nov 2007 19:50
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Just looking at what Lee said about selling games, now does DX10 still use those lightmaps that are overlaid as a texture like in dx9, if it does you are not going to be shipping a full game over the net, those lightmap tex files make the game massive in file size, so just wondering if you binned that from dx9 or are still with it.

fpsc game KillTV update 22Oct.http://www.avantivita.com/killtv.html
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Squelchy Tom
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Posted: 14th Nov 2007 20:19
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Nice new licence. I like it very much.
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Doggy
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 22:09
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Quote: "Just looking at what Lee said about selling games, now does DX10 still use those lightmaps that are overlaid as a texture like in dx9, if it does you are not going to be shipping a full game over the net, those lightmap tex files make the game massive in file size, so just wondering if you binned that from dx9 or are still with it."

Dunno about the lightmaps ( I believe most of the shadows are rendered in realtime, I could be wrong tho'), but the size of the whole build game isn't that big of a problem anymore.

Even the Crysis demo was over 1GB (the installer only), so if the games are anywhere near those sizes, people with decent connection (1M and faster)will get the games downloaded surprisingly quickly. Still I'd recommend sharing larger games in discs.
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fallen one
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Posted: 15th Nov 2007 22:34 Edited at: 16th Nov 2007 01:56
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well it is a problem with fpsc dx 9, the file sizes and load times are massive, there is a reason the portals have games that are small in file size, even with BB I dont want to download multi GBs in file size. Thats why I ask if its been sorted in dx10. If it hasnt then you will not be selling it online.
Ive downloaded small fpsc demos, not even a full size game level, that are like 200mb at least, more if it was a proper games level size, times that by 30 levels, thats 6 gigs, you dont download 6 gigs of game from the net. Lets say 50k a sec that would be 10 hours to download it. Can you imagine your bandwidth as well. To get the money for the extended license, say the game is 10 pounds (20 USD) 100 sales makes 1000 pounds, right 100 x 6 gigs, comes at 600 gig, thats quite a number. So yes it is an issue for online downloads, though if this method brings advantages in some way, perhaps speed or visual quality then it may be worth the sacrifice in file size.

fpsc game KillTV update 22Oct.http://www.avantivita.com/killtv.html
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FPSC Scripts
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Posted: 16th Nov 2007 05:31 Edited at: 16th Nov 2007 05:42
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I think the license's are to expensive for us indie guys.
999$ is 1998 $ my country money...
If the license stays at this price i wont buy fpsc x10.

i'm the M king.
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Storm 6000
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Posted: 16th Nov 2007 10:52 Edited at: 16th Nov 2007 10:56
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Quote: "Just looking at what Lee said about selling games, now does DX10 still use those lightmaps that are overlaid as a texture like in dx9, if it does you are not going to be shipping a full game over the net, those lightmap tex files make the game massive in file size, so just wondering if you binned that from dx9 or are still with it."


You can pay and download games like FEAR so I seriously doubt its a problem yes you do cut out a small audience but you think, generally, someone who has DX10 hardware has a rubbish internet connection? besides you can sell them boxed now if you wish.

Quote: "I think the license's are to expensive for us indie guys.
999$ is 1998 $ my country money...
If the license stays at this price i wont buy fpsc x10."


Firstly its not expensive and secondly if you read the thread you will see lee stated that you can sell your games however you like up to a total revenue of US $5000 and then you have to buy the licence and thus you would have the money to buy the new licence... not to mention the licence is for every game you ever maike and sell not just one... here have a penguin

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fallen one
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Posted: 16th Nov 2007 16:51 Edited at: 17th Nov 2007 13:53
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Quote: "not to mention the licence is for every game you ever maike and sell not just one."

So the license is then clear for any game you make, not per title?

Quote: "You can pay and download games like FEAR so I seriously doubt its a problem yes you do cut out a small audience but you think, generally, someone who has DX10 hardware has a rubbish internet connection? besides you can sell them boxed now if you wish."


Games like Fear do not count on online sales, I dont care if you can download it, thats a AAA quality game with a big publisher and big retail distribution, its got nothing to do with an indie selling games online.

Let me think about this, you would need an web site provider to give you unlimited or very high downloads for the file size, just checking my BB, 1.1 mb per sec. 1hour 30 secs for 6 gigs, hmm thats not too bad, yep its do able, guess Im just a HD miser.

fpsc game KillTV update 22Oct.http://www.avantivita.com/killtv.html
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Black Terror
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Posted: 17th Nov 2007 06:25
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Fallen One:
Yes, that is what the quote says right?

1.1 mm per sec?


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creator of zombies
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Posted: 17th Nov 2007 22:19 Edited at: 17th Nov 2007 22:20
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Before this thread turns into a 'lets Bash X10,TGC etc' thread, lets just think methodicly for a second. Most people who make games with FPSC/ or will be X10, only really release their games on this forum (maybe give a copy to a few of thier mates if they feel lucky). Now, as far as I know, it doesn't cost you a penny to release your games on this forum, or post a DL link on your own site, and this is what 95% of people do. Then you get the other 5% of people who like to push the boat out, and try and go commercial. But to do this, you would have to go through the trouble of finding a publisher who will accept your game etc... Then, by the time you have paid the publishing costs, been forced into a unfair 70/30 split with the publisher, you might as well pay the extra cash to go commercial, because you have already you have already been through the trouble and bothered to pay and create disk cases labels etc.. So it's not really a big issue if you look at it like this. I do think they should drop the price slightly lower though

creator of Zombies



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fallen one
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Posted: 18th Nov 2007 00:03 Edited at: 18th Nov 2007 00:08
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Quote: "Then you get the other 5% of people who like to push the boat out, and try and go commercial. "


Less than 5%, way way less.

Quote: "But to do this, you would have to go through the trouble of finding a publisher who will accept your game etc... Then, by the time you have paid the publishing costs,"


You don't pay publishing costs, the publisher does.

Quote: "been forced into a unfair 70/30 split with the publisher, "


Flip that figure around, if they ain't funding it, you dont hand out massive cuts, you took the risk not them, you don't give them 70% for that, also distributor would be a better term, pubs, fund market and distribute, fund, you wont get that, market, doubtful they will market much if any, only big pubs have marketing budgets, and distribute, right then, they are a distributor, also no money advance up front on your done game, from them for this, then no deal as well, it ain't a charity.

fpsc game KillTV update 22Oct.http://www.avantivita.com/killtv.html
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creator of zombies
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Posted: 18th Nov 2007 21:26
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fallen one: Good point. Maybe I overlooked a few things in my post. I still think they should drop the proce a little though.



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Black Terror
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Posted: 18th Nov 2007 23:23
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I think it is all good. If your making 5000 dollars, and loose 1000, at least it is still a profit.


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Inspire
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Posted: 19th Nov 2007 01:41
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Awesome news!

I'm hoping to win X10 in the Phoenix compo, and if I do, I'm buying Vista. If not, I'll get this as soon as possible. I hope that shaders are easier to implement.

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AlanC
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Posted: 19th Nov 2007 02:37
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I was wondering,

How is TGC gonna keep track of how much a game earns?

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Inspire
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Posted: 19th Nov 2007 03:36
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Good point.

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Storm 6000
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Posted: 19th Nov 2007 14:56
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It will be obvious because a game that earns that much will most likely be in a shop and with a community such as ours someone will notice.

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Kronos
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Posted: 19th Nov 2007 18:36
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And if someone notise it....?
What will happen then`?

The Earth is full, go home!
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Inspire
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Posted: 20th Nov 2007 00:03
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You will disappear. TGC will become a major crime organization. One must fight back.

^ Someone make a game about that.

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Uthink
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Posted: 20th Nov 2007 00:32
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What do people consider profit? If you put 780 hours into building a game. Which is 15hrs a week. And your time is worth $50/hr. That's $39,000 expense. Not counting expense for software tools and hardware.

Seems like you're a long ways away from profit?

Of course these numbers are made up. I'd love to see real figures if anyone has them?

"I'm trying to find new ways to make this game more attractive." - Dennis Rodman
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xplosys
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Posted: 20th Nov 2007 00:47
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Quote: "Seems like you're a long ways away from profit?
"


Your numbers may or may not be reasonable, I don't know about that, but if you're game making time is worth $50.00 an hour, perhaps you should consider something better than a $50.00 engine.

I know you're just throwing it out there, but for a part time hobby, $5000.00 seems like a profit to me. LOL

Best.

I'm sorry, my answers are limited. You must ask the right question.

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Storm 6000
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Posted: 20th Nov 2007 10:44
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Quote: "I know you're just throwing it out there, but for a part time hobby, $5000.00 seems like a profit to me. LOL"


Have to agree there

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Uthink
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Posted: 20th Nov 2007 14:24
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Quote: "I know you're just throwing it out there, but for a part time hobby, $5000.00 seems like a profit to me. LOL"


Still, what is profit? Are you just considering any money coming in as profit? Because if we consider "time" disposable, then I've got a bunch of tasks I'd love to have done. j/k LOL

"I'm trying to find new ways to make this game more attractive." - Dennis Rodman
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xplosys
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Posted: 20th Nov 2007 15:30
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Quote: "then I've got a bunch of tasks I'd love to have done. j/k LOL"


Yeah, me too! LOL

My time spent with FPSC is no different than time spent watching a movie or playing ball with the kids.... it's just for fun and relaxation. Having never considered the commercial viability of the engine, I can't comment on that end of it. But for $50.00, I've had more fun with this than any game I ever bought. It's been nearly two years, and I'm still playing with it!

If the engine is capable of creating a viable, commercial title, that's just a big plus. And if I get around to doing something like that, I'm sure it would still be "on the side" as opposed to my main job and I wouldn't consider the time spent against any profits.

Best.

I'm sorry, my answers are limited. You must ask the right question.

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Kronos
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Posted: 20th Nov 2007 18:34
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Quote: "You will disappear. TGC will become a major crime organization. One must fight back.

^ Someone make a game about that.
"

-Yeah, that would be a good game!

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rolfy
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Posted: 20th Nov 2007 19:04 Edited at: 20th Nov 2007 19:12
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Quote: ""Just looking at what Lee said about selling games, now does DX10 still use those lightmaps that are overlaid as a texture like in dx9, if it does you are not going to be shipping a full game over the net, those lightmap tex files make the game massive in file size, so just wondering if you binned that from dx9 or are still with it.""

I know this is a little off topic,but are folks aware that the lightmaps are unpacked the first time you run a built game,you can delete the testlevel folder in the levelbank which contains these before uploading to the web and they will be unpacked when the user runs the game (dont delete the zip files).
I have no problem with any of the liceensing issues here,I've said it before users couldn't care less what the game was created in only developers are anal about these things.
As for giving TGC credit,its ok by me.

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fallen one
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Posted: 20th Nov 2007 19:12
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So you are saying the lightmaps are zipped when the game is made, once the person plays the game for the first time they are unpacked and stay that way.

fpsc game KillTV update 22Oct.http://www.avantivita.com/killtv.html
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rolfy
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Posted: 20th Nov 2007 19:15 Edited at: 20th Nov 2007 19:23
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Yes they are unpacked into a testlevel folder in the levelbank when the game is run,it looks like only one folder is created and this may be overwritten as each level progresses, I do know you can delete this folder.

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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 20th Nov 2007 19:30 Edited at: 20th Nov 2007 19:43
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Quote: "I think the license's are to expensive for us indie guys.
999$ is 1998 $ my country money...
If the license stays at this price i wont buy fpsc x10."

Dude, you can use it to make up to $5,000.
Then, you pay the Extended License Fee of $1,000 to sell more than $5,000.
So, the $1,000 is out of your profits, not up front out of your pocket .
That is perfect for indie developers!

Don't forget to visit Conjured Entertainment

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FredP
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Posted: 20th Nov 2007 19:33
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As long as we are (or were,a few posts ago) on the subject I do this for fun.If I did it for a living it would be a real job and then it would suck.I am doing this for the love of it and,frankly,because I figure why should I spend all that money buying video games when I can make my own?I still buy the occassional game but most of my spare change (if I can sneak my wallet back from my girlfriend) goes into game development.

******************************
I am saying something nice about TGC
******************************

Especially since this thread started on a kind of negative note I would like to point out that TGC did change the license to reflect the needs and wishes of its customers...wow.Good job to the folks at TGC.
It's a shame that TGC has to make it part of its licensing agreement that we give them credit.It should be automatic.Everyone deserves recognition for what they did to make my games and I will do everything to see that they get it.
@rolfy,
Thanks for the uber tip.I sure didn't know that.It is going to come in handy.

Please have mercy and use the search function.
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Inspire
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Posted: 20th Nov 2007 23:55
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Quote: "Yeah, me too! LOL

My time spent with FPSC is no different than time spent watching a movie or playing ball with the kids.... it's just for fun and relaxation. Having never considered the commercial viability of the engine, I can't comment on that end of it. But for $50.00, I've had more fun with this than any game I ever bought. It's been nearly two years, and I'm still playing with it!

If the engine is capable of creating a viable, commercial title, that's just a big plus. And if I get around to doing something like that, I'm sure it would still be "on the side" as opposed to my main job and I wouldn't consider the time spent against any profits.

Best."


Same here, xplosys. I use FPSC for the fun of it.

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bond1
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Posted: 21st Nov 2007 01:07
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Quote: " But for $50.00, I've had more fun with this than any game I ever bought. It's been nearly two years, and I'm still playing with it!"


Wow I couldn't have put that any better. It's hands down the most fun I've gotten out of $50.

I bought Bioshock when it came out, and I usually play a bit here and there once a week or so. On the other hand, I'll create and play little level in FPSC pretty much every single day. That's saying something.

----------------------------------------
"Your mom goes to college."
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Benjamin A
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Joined: 31st Oct 2005
Location: The Netherlands
Posted: 25th Nov 2007 02:17 Edited at: 25th Nov 2007 02:19
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Quote: "Yea, I haven't met anyone yet who has made $1000.00 selling an FPSC game and other than some nicer graphics I expect the same of X-10. Don't get me wrong, I love the software and the company, but I am just being realistic. (maybe there has, if you have let me know)"


Guess you haven't met me..... pleased to meet you also I've just bought myself a nice new pc out my profits. Yes, almost everything runs very smoothly now (expect for FPSC X9), I'm just waiting for the extra 2Gb Ram I've ordered and things should even soar more. If you like, you're welcome to play on my new pc, while I enjoy the playing on the Wii I've purchased from what was left.


As for the license, I really don't get this, I'm suprised, very suprised. For those of you who have been around long enough, you know this whole deal happened before with FPSC X9. It had a license for selling games on it also. In the end, after a lot of hassle, it was dropped.

I've been seriously considering X10 lately, I even got the machine to run it now, but...... There were 2 things stopping me..... I'm still not convinced about Vista and FPSC X9 is still not working after 2 years of release, that has crumbles my faith in TGC a lot. TGC has just added a third reason to it, so I guess 3 strikes means you're out TGC (yep I like baseball).

If you want TGC to drop the license, do one simple thing..... don't buy FPSC X10 and if you've pre-ordered, cancel the order.

Quote: "Although, when you consider than most commercial engines cost between $250,000 to $500,000 or more, FPSC X10's $1000 is a bargain."


You're kidding, aren't you? Comparing FPSC X10 to those engines is absurd, compared it to it's peers please.

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