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FPS Creator X10 / Extended License cost

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xgame masterx
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Posted: 26th Nov 2007 18:39
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At least TGC has better customer support than Microsoft, i heard they are giving out broken xBox360's on their Forum! Thanks TGC!
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Benjamin A
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Posted: 27th Nov 2007 10:37 Edited at: 27th Nov 2007 10:38
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Better customer support? FPSC X9 still isn't fixed after 2 years of it's release..... so TGC is still selling broken software. Doesn't sound like better at all to me.

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
GameFun4U, the ultimate funtainment. Cool Games and Resources for your own games.
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Storm 6000
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Posted: 27th Nov 2007 15:37
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Quote: "so TGC is still selling broken software. Doesn't sound like better at all to me."


Its not broken, sure they lead people to believe it works better than it does but it does do what they said it would. Yes they are slow to fix things but they have other product lines they are also tending to and while I think they do need more people working on it I also think you have to give them credit for that which they have achieved

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xplosys
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Playing: FPSC Multiplayer Games
Posted: 27th Nov 2007 17:58
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Troll alert.

I'm sorry, my answers are limited. You must ask the right question.

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FredP
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Posted: 27th Nov 2007 18:37
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Noted.Troll has been slapped.

Please have mercy and use the search function.
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IMAGE 02
21
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Posted: 28th Nov 2007 00:19
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I Personaly dont think the licence is exspensive if you think of the amount of money you would make on selling a game, then you skim the money off the top for The Game Creators, then the rest is yours, and you dont pay during development you pay when you have made enough money to pay them.

I was part of the convention this year in Leeds and honestly lee and the rest of the team were saying that it was more of a token of thank you to the developers who had worked hard to give you the engine.

I think its totally fair and priced well, But then again we are used to paying top dollar for
everything in england (petrol is now £1.02p per liter) lol

Eddie xx

IMAGE is EVERYTHING
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fallen one
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Posted: 28th Nov 2007 05:09 Edited at: 28th Nov 2007 05:11
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Quote: "Noted.Troll has been slapped."

How dare anyone criticize, should be illegal. Fas law still is going strong then

Ive noticed some people are very quick to jump on Benjamin A and his criticisms, but hey guess what, hes made a full game and sold it, he is in a select band of fpsc users, this guy has made and sold his fpsc game, his brethren are what, 3 others at most. Yet he is constantly berated for any criticism of fpsc he makes, hey hes made a commercial game, he has used the product fully, so I think his opinion carries weight myself and should get some respect for taking fpsc so far.

Evil Things Most Foulhttp://www.avantivita.com/
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FredP
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Posted: 28th Nov 2007 06:37
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Yes...he's managed to do all that with software that he says is "broken"...
If you want to bash FPSC do it elsewhere.The grown ups are posting here.
But...honestly,can I make money and then cry and moan because I made it...
Besides,if you've been around for more than a month or two you've already read most of what Ben has to say...he says it over and over and over and over...
I am extremely serious when I say try to keep this thread on topic.If you must post nonsense do it elsewhere.

Please have mercy and use the search function.
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Endless Fps Team
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Posted: 28th Nov 2007 08:31
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So if i create a game i can sell it, but only a cheap price like say 5.00 dollars or less?


http://endlessfpsteam.tripod.com/
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Storm 6000
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Posted: 28th Nov 2007 10:17 Edited at: 28th Nov 2007 10:18
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Quote: "So if i create a game i can sell it, but only a cheap price like say 5.00 dollars or less?"


You can sell it for as much as you want to but once you have made $5000 you need to use $1000 of that money to purchase a new licence for FPSC that allows you to legally keep selling and make mroe than $5000. This licences is unlimited and applies to every game your ever make and try to sell

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shadow651
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Posted: 28th Nov 2007 18:55
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Quote: "Ive noticed some people are very quick to jump on Benjamin A and his criticisms, but hey guess what, hes made a full game and sold it, he is in a select band of fpsc users, this guy has made and sold his fpsc game, his brethren are what, 3 others at most. Yet he is constantly berated for any criticism of fpsc he makes, hey hes made a commercial game, he has used the product fully, so I think his opinion carries weight myself and should get some respect for taking fpsc so far."

so really your saying anyone who sales a game is above everyone else immune from mods
thats like saying a celeb is above the law and can get away with anythng

Quote: "So if i create a game i can sell it, but only a cheap price like say 5.00 dollars or less?"

if you did sell it at that price then it would take a while to get to a 5000 unless your games amazing but if do reach it your still making a huge profit and in saying that profits aren't going to suddenly stop at 5000,X10 has good graphics so i would recommand you sale at around 10 or more instead, 10 would be the max for me tho as i make games just for fun
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DJ Professor K
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Posted: 29th Nov 2007 10:23
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Quote: "thats like saying a celeb is above the law and can get away with anythng"


*cough* they are already (look at the news!?)
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protoborg
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Posted: 29th Nov 2007 13:03
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We Americans complain about the silliest things. "Oh, gas is too expensive for my car that only gets 5 miles to the gallon! Oh, woe is me!" This is the cheapest engine in the world. With the updated license, I think the price tag is very cheap. Most AAA developers make billions a year on their games. They spend $50,000 USD on a license. That seems reasonable. We buy a $50.00 game engine. If one of us is able to make $50,000 from the game we make we have spent $1,050 to develop that game. That seems like a reasonable cost to me.

You know your code sucks when it does what you want before you know what you want.
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Storm 6000
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Posted: 29th Nov 2007 14:48
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Quote: "$1,050"
thats assuming you dont use any custom media at all...

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darimc
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Posted: 29th Nov 2007 20:08
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If you used no custom media then the price to make the game would be about... $69.99 (about the price of fpsc x10).
Quote: "thats assuming you dont use any custom media at all..."


join the x games forum: http://www.fps-x-games.com

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Storm 6000
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Posted: 29th Nov 2007 21:29
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Not if you want to make more than $5000

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darimc
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Posted: 30th Nov 2007 00:54
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If you made an awesome game with absolutely NO custom stuff and you got it published by a big publisher then you would likely make more than $500 and it would only cost $69.99.
Quote: "Not if you want to make more than $5000 "


join the x games forum: http://www.fps-x-games.com

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Storm 6000
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Posted: 30th Nov 2007 14:28 Edited at: 30th Nov 2007 14:29
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Quote: "If you made an awesome game with absolutely NO custom stuff and you got it published by a big publisher then you would likely make more than $500 and it would only cost $69.99"
BINGO no it wouldn't, that is what this entire thread is about... if you make a game and make $5000 income you have to buy the extended licence for $1000 in order to legally continue selling above this limit. What you suggested above is breaking the law and cheating TGC out of a fair reward for their part in making your game.

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Black Terror
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Posted: 30th Nov 2007 21:35
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Storm: How is that breaking the license?


Custom graphics, textures, and segments
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darimc
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Posted: 1st Dec 2007 18:55
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No it wouldn't, because the license is NOT part of the development cost. You only have to pay $1000 one time for only one game and that is after you have already made five times that much. It is no big deal.
Quote: "BINGO no it wouldn't, that is what this entire thread is about... if you make a game and make $5000 income you have to buy the extended licence for $1000 in order to legally continue selling above this limit. What you suggested above is breaking the law and cheating TGC out of a fair reward for their part in making your game."


join the x games forum: http://www.fps-x-games.com

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Slayer222
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2007 22:18
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Please, stop this whining! I got a much cheaper computer than I would have because of this license, but as a result I can't run FPSC X10. I will upgrade my computer as soon as I get 500 bucks or so and then the first thing I will do is get FPSC X10. The engine looks great and most of the problems from FPSC seem fixed and the new features allow thousands of new game designing possibility's. The least you could do after making a great game that manages to sell over a hundred copies is give TGC some rewards for helping you get there. Its a very sad day when you have to force people to credit your work, especially when its this size. Lee went as far to say write the credit in dark grey on a black background if you want, although that is pretty sad if you do. As for paying up $1000 after making $5000, I don't see a problem. Lets be realistic here please, who is actually going to make more than 1000 bucks with and FPSC game, especially if it has such high system requirements? If you DO make $5000 dollars then you should consider yourself the most lucky luckster ever and you shouldn't whine about losing $1000 dollars, which is one FIFTH of your sales so far. If I ever make a commercial game with FPSC X10, TGC can have a copy of my game free, a clear space in the credits for my game, their X10 decal thing on the back of the CD case and credits there as well.
*Slayer_2

EOT
[img][/img]
Check it out here: http://eliteops.piczo.com/?cr=6&rfm=y
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fallen one
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Posted: 3rd Dec 2007 23:02
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Quote: "most of the problems from FPSC seem fixed."


Seem is a good word isnt it, well lets hope so, if they are not, it will hit TGC very hard indeed, I dare say bury them, a lot is riding on dx10 and their future reputation and business.

Evil Things Most Foulhttp://www.avantivita.com/
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Airslide
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Posted: 4th Dec 2007 05:07
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The additional license, which you only have to pay for if you go over the limit (as has been said countless times) isn't much different from buying the commercial license for Torque - it's essentially a "thank you" and it does get you around royalties which would probably cost you more. And complaining about it now is absurd anyways - if your going to complain about it, wait until you've sold a game that requires it.


Vote today and play the games!
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Fps guy
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Posted: 4th Dec 2007 06:32
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whats the big deal is just a simple license not like its going to kill ya.

boom headshot!!!
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fallen one
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Posted: 4th Dec 2007 11:05
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Quote: " if your going to complain about it, wait until you've sold a game that requires it."


good idea, shut the door after the horse has bolted, thats like saying marry a girl, then see if she is trash after you are wed, not before you start dating, hell no, you check up first before you waste any time. Why on earth would you ever make a game before you check out the license.

Evil Things Most Foulhttp://www.avantivita.com/
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107295
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Posted: 4th Dec 2007 14:43
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So, we can sell them, but if we sell them by a third party seller, we need commercial license?

So a Shepard said to his flock; "Thou shalt be confuseth!" and so they were.
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FredP
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Posted: 4th Dec 2007 14:46
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Maybe you should read the revised license...

Please have mercy and use the search function.
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Satchmo
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Posted: 4th Dec 2007 19:30
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Just lock it Fred, before anymore fights start.

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FredP
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Posted: 4th Dec 2007 21:50
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Any foolishness will not be tolerated.At the moment everybody is acting fine.Any problems will be dealt with swiftly so let's not get x10 going on the wrong foot.

Please have mercy and use the search function.
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keithml
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Posted: 5th Dec 2007 19:32
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IS SELLING THROUGH SHAREWARE SALES COMPANIES 3RD PARTY? (such as Digital River or RegNow)

Sorry to chime in, I tried reading through the forum entries and it was ... long. So if I missed the answer (and it was through an official channel), feel free to enlighten me.

I too am confused by the "third party" designation. Is selling my product through one of the online shareware sales companies like Digital River or RegNow considered a "third party"? For that matter any company that handles the sales on an internet site instead of you directly processing the card. It is a "third party" by most legal definitions, but I doubt it is the type of "publisher" TGC means in their definition. It would be nice to clarify this in some way. Officially, would really be nice.

Thanks,
I look forward to FPSC X10
Keith
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xplosys
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Posted: 5th Dec 2007 20:06
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The license has been simplified to the following:

Quote: "In a nutshell, you can sell anything you make with FPS Creator X10 using any method you like, royalty free. If you then find after selling your X10 based games you earn more than $5000 (US Dollars) in total (after sales tax) you must buy the extended license to continue selling your X10 based games. No per product, per platform nonsense, just purchase the license once and you can freely earn anything over $5000 for the life of your titles.
"


Best.

fpsFREE.com - for FREE FPSC Content
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keithml
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Posted: 5th Dec 2007 21:01 Edited at: 5th Dec 2007 21:02
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I'm cool with that.

If someone could append the first post in this thread to reflect the $5000 amount and the change away from the per title clause for the extended license I think fewer people (like myself) will be confused. Especially since it is a sticky.
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fallen one
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Posted: 5th Dec 2007 23:46
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if it aint you selling it, then its a third party, thats it.

Evil Things Most Foulhttp://www.avantivita.com/
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xplosys
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Posted: 5th Dec 2007 23:52
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Quote: "if it aint you selling it, then its a third party, thats it."


Third party is no longer relevant since the "you can sell anything you make with FPS Creator X10 using any method you like" clause was put in. You can sell it with or without a publisher now, and you only have to worry about the $5,000.00 rule.

Best.

fpsFREE.com - for FREE FPSC Content
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fallen one
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Posted: 6th Dec 2007 00:16
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so 5k sales at retail and 1k license.
that right, simple enough.

Evil Things Most Foulhttp://www.avantivita.com/
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vertex storm
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Posted: 6th Dec 2007 04:30
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Hey,

I think the issue here is about goals-- customers and GC:

Goals of FPSC Customers:
Folks want to learn more about making/make games.
and...by more advanced users a goal could be:
Profit. FPS Creator x10 is more robust, and so the chances of making a commercial quality game is more likely than with past versions. Some users could utilize it to make a pretty good casual shoot'm up game.

Goal 1 of FPSC creators:
Folks at GC want to utilize high tech minds/mad skills to provide cool game tech to creative customers.
and also
Profit-- goes without saying.

It seems to me the profit motive would be better served by both groups-- GC and it's more advanced game creating customers-- with Game Creators acting as the optional publisher of FPSC games. The hardest part of selling a good game online is marketing. I think GC is better positioned for this than your average indie group. GC could require the second $1k of gross profits of any Game Creator's/FPSC published game and a percentage of sells for as long as the game is sold via GC-- could even divide/distribute gross income among developers (i.e. artists/coders)-- all having access to sales data-- GC acting as a trustee of profits. $1k is not much at all considering a team could use FPSC to build valuable IP.

I don't know-- just an idea.
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CGPlanet
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Posted: 7th Dec 2007 03:39
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If you get a 3rd party publisher to take your game. You will not have to worry about the 999.00 because they will pay for it themselves if they see it as gold. What I would pay closer attention to (after you create the game) is how the 3rd party publisher tries to negotiate the deal with you. I would be saying "show me the money" upfront. If they can't afford a serious down payment for a game then do it your self over the www. Another very importent thing is investors. If you try to sell your game before you start you can possibly get some investor to front the cash to pay you to develop it (could also lose the rights to your game if you don't pay attention) in this scenerio. As always make sure you understand what you are getting yourself into. I actually appreciate the fact that TGC has allowed us to use software to the extent that it does. FPSX10 is a good price.

CGPlanet
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Endless Fps Team
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Posted: 7th Dec 2007 05:35
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Hey i have an idea...Or a question...

So what is selling a game at a nearby store? Is it illegal without the license or just i can do that to earn money to buy the license? So if i make a game i dont have to have ppl download even if they live near me...selling it at a nearby store is better for sales...I mean if i make a game and say it is 5 gigs, ppl have to download it? or if they live near me and i sell it at a store they can by it there if i tell them i sell it over there?


http://endlessfpsteam.tripod.com/
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Gemstone Games
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Posted: 7th Dec 2007 07:12 Edited at: 7th Dec 2007 07:16
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Here's an idea.

If and when I get FCX (my comp's far from able to run it so far), I'm planning on hitting that license within the first $2000 in sales. The way it sounds is like once you get $5K of ALL sales, which means more than one game, and it's a one-time fee. I'd be glad to pay a one-time fee for the ability to make games without limitation. And think of it this way; by paying that $1000, we also help Lee get it set up for other countries, AND we could also be paying for development of the X10 version of DBP.

I for one am glad to support the businesses that make it possible for the average guy to make something as good as the big companies.
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xplosys
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Posted: 7th Dec 2007 15:00
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Quote: "So what is selling a game at a nearby store? Is it illegal without the license or just i can do that to earn money to buy the license? "


Quote: "Third party is no longer relevant since the "you can sell anything you make with FPS Creator X10 using any method you like" clause was put in. You can sell it with or without a publisher now, and you only have to worry about the $5,000.00 rule."


Quote: "you can sell anything you make with FPS Creator X10 using any method you like"


fpsFREE.com - for FREE FPSC Content
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CGPlanet
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Posted: 7th Dec 2007 15:24
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When someone exceeds $5K in sales of their game please post it on the tgc forum.

CGPlanet
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fallen one
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Posted: 7th Dec 2007 23:52 Edited at: 8th Dec 2007 02:52
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Quote: "with Game Creators acting as the optional publisher of FPSC games. The hardest part of selling a good game online is marketing. I think GC is better positioned for this than your average indie group."


I sure as [mod edit] dont think TGC is better positioned for that. TGC should concentrate on making an engine, not trying to market games, thats a publishers job.
It is possible for them to have a store for user games, Torque do that, Id sooner TGC didnt, I dont want to see scores of games made with dx10 cluttering up the place with bad quality, Id sooner see games made for fun, put in the showcase, then a couple of games from indies made from the engine, like a couple, not half its hobbiests with their 'creations'.

Evil Things Most Foulhttp://www.avantivita.com/
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FredP
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Posted: 8th Dec 2007 03:01
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Quote: "I sure as [mod edit] dont think TGC is better positioned for that. TGC should concentrate on making an engine, not trying to market games, thats a publishers job.
It is possible for them to have a store for user games, Torque do that, Id sooner TGC didnt, I dont want to see scores of games made with dx10 cluttering up the place with bad quality, Id sooner see games made for fun, put in the showcase, then a couple of games from indies made from the engine, like a couple, not half its hobbiests with their 'creations'."


You said what?
Noob slap for the swearing and whatever your attitude problem is at the moment...now let me address a few things here...
A TGC marketplace of some sort will become a reality soon...It is a chance for third party developers to sell their wares.
Then TGC has some kind of quality control and we as moderators will have less of that to deal with (and I like that).
I don't want to see a bunch of garbage either.
This is a engine designed for hobbiests not the high and mighty.If you are all that go work for EA or someplace and play with the big boys' engines...we obviously don't deserve your talent and wisdom.
That's a good idea.Don't let the people who paid for the engine and are members of this forum post in it because you find it distateful.Please think about that...it hurts my head.
These forums are for forum members and while I don't want to see crap any more than the next developer if they want to post crap they can as long as they play by the rules.
For the record I either want some kind of approval system for the x10 Showcase board or have a BOTB board for it so we can do away with some of the problems.
This is just my personal wish and has no real bearing on anything.
We shoudl all be a little nicer when we post...

Please have mercy and use the search function.
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Casper007
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Posted: 9th Dec 2007 04:58
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This Extended License cost really bugs me. Like most people I'am sure I won't ever sell any games but what if I wanted to. If I had a publisher who wanted to sell one of my games for lets say 50.00 per copy and the publisher kept 35.00 per game for packageing and disturbution cost and the cost to print up manuals so customers would know how to play the game. That would leave me with a 15.00 profit and then I have to pay TGC 1000.00 for each copy sold. That sounds like a rip off to me. I think giving the credit in a License
agreement would make them happy enough. And what about those hard working people who's media I use are they not entitled to a cut of the pay as well. If I had know about this "Extended License", I would have not already Paid TGC for the work they have done and the Product I have bought from.

Casper007
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xplosys
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Posted: 9th Dec 2007 05:02
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Quote: "and then I have to pay TGC 1000.00 for each copy sold."


ROFL

fpsFREE.com - for FREE FPSC Content
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Casper007
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Posted: 9th Dec 2007 05:17
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Please Excuse my last Post. I did not see Lee's Post about The New Revised Extended License cost. It sounds much more fair and resonable.

Casper007
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KeithC
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Posted: 10th Dec 2007 04:36
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Quote: "then I have to pay TGC 1000.00 for each copy sold"

That wouldn't even make sense before Lee's revision.

Unless you're feeling incredibly optimistic; many games have their manual in .pdf format now...thereby saving the cost of printing it.

Quote: "And what about those hard working people who's media I use are they not entitled to a cut of the pay as well."

Only if it's in their license and you agree to it.

-Keith



Ozark Games
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Gemstone Games
18
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Joined: 5th Jul 2006
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Posted: 10th Dec 2007 05:48
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That's the point though, Casper. If you're doing this the pro way, by the time all is said and done, you're lucky if you get maybe 5 bucks in profit. That would theoretically mean you'd have to sell a thousand copies of one game in order to even make that quota. Now, a thousand copies of a game is totally doable, but it takes some gumption.

Now, two hundred copies of FIVE games, however, that's a little more realistic and a lot more sense, especially given how few people have 8800s in their comps at this point in time. In a year or two, yeah, a thousand copies on one game is gonna be good deal, but right now, you'd have to be a force in marketing to accomplish that goal given the ratio of Vista users to XP users.

Long story short, it's probably going to be a while before we even HAVE to worry about this license. Until then, learn the program, enjoy it, and get to planning that next Quake or Halo.
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Kronos
17
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Joined: 21st Mar 2007
Location: Chernobyl
Posted: 17th Dec 2007 19:23 Edited at: 17th Dec 2007 19:24
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If you dont have the "license" and build a game.
Will your game have a "watermark" for example: <Build with FPSx10> and so on...

Will it?

The Earth is full, go home!
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Chris Ganuza
16
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Joined: 18th Dec 2007
Location: EU
Posted: 22nd Dec 2007 00:24
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Hmmm. What if i wanted to freely post games on my myspace? Is that okay?

CG
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