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Work in Progress / BlitzTerrain

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kaedroho
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 21:36
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No, DeleteTerrain only reverses MakeTerrain.

Terrain streaming is automatic and ive finnished designing the algorithm for it and it will beable to stream terrains very smoothly.

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
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kaedroho
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 22:55
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I have just thought of a new solution for delete terrain. Ill add it in when I get back home tomorrow.

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
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Duffer
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Posted: 14th Jun 2009 10:55 Edited at: 14th Jun 2009 13:01
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@ Kaedroho,

Thought of another possible command or two for a future release.

I'm thinking of the "UT Paint Terrain Point" type command and thinking - what if the plugin could do that automatically according to height with a command?

Perhaps then with the user able to use the default palette (as assigned by you in the dll) for that or with a custom palette - with points between palette assignments being mixed accordingly and according to point heights?

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
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kaedroho
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Posted: 14th Jun 2009 14:06
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Duffer, That command will be very easy to add. All I need to do is the exact same as set point height, but just use diffuse.

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
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Duffer
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Posted: 14th Jun 2009 14:26 Edited at: 14th Jun 2009 14:27
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@ kaedroho,

Excellent - have you ever seen one of the fractal landscape type programs and how they asign colours according to height at any point on the terrain.... that's sort of what I was thinking... sort of with a default colour scheme/palette to assign colours at points according to height - but maybe with the option to load in and save out your own palette for colour at point according to height?

[edit] - hope above makes sense? it would allow you to easily create say a Martian type terrain, or desert, or traditional or garish/fantastical...

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
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The Wilderbeast
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Posted: 14th Jun 2009 15:07
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Check out the Sandbox Editor in FarCry for an example. You select several textures and assign each one a height and it generates the texture using this height data.

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Duffer
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Posted: 14th Jun 2009 18:37
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not sure whether you'd have to have seperate load and save commands for palettes for this as well as load and save commands for BlitzTerrain...

speaking of which, how go the load and save BlitzTerrain commands?

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
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kaedroho
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Posted: 14th Jun 2009 22:21 Edited at: 14th Jun 2009 22:33
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I haven't started them :S. Theyll be definitely on the list for 1.06 though.

EDIT: because of DBPros C*** Frustum Culling, ive been forced to make the following command:

UT SetFrustumCulling Terrain,Enabled

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
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Duffer
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Posted: 16th Jun 2009 15:43
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@ kaedroho,

No worries - will wait for them in next release.

How is 1.05 coming? Also do we have a realistic eta for RC of the Pro version? (my money at the ready..>

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kaedroho
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Posted: 18th Jun 2009 15:42
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Ignore my last post.

If you download update 7.4 beta 7b of DBPro the frustum culling should be fine.

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
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N3wton
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Posted: 18th Jun 2009 17:26
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Hello
I'm trying to make evolveds Cubic Shadow Mapping shader work with BlitzTerrain, I'm a little/a lot confused about how Blitzterrain works, so far I've worked out that it brakes the height map down into segments and then the segments texture (at stage 0) is the detail texture. i think

so where is the texture.jpg texture stored?

for if i apply the shader to a terrain it works and dynamic shadows are applied and i keep the detail map, but i use the texture

EXAMPLE



any help would be appreciated

yours
N3wton

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kaedroho
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Posted: 18th Jun 2009 19:52
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The texture is read then applied to the terrain using vertexdata diffuse. Its an easier way to apply textures but has disadvantages. If you have a large tilesize, the texture will become very low res. Im working on another texture mode which textures the terrain with both the detailmap and base texture so this doesnt happen.

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
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N3wton
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Posted: 18th Jun 2009 21:10
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oh ok i'll wait for that then for the time being i'll see what i can do with advanced terrain as i've get the shadow shader to work with an .x object just gotta make terrains work now

keep me posted on your work thankyou

yours
N3wton

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Duffer
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Posted: 20th Jun 2009 12:47
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@ kaedroho,

How goes it?

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kaedroho
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Posted: 20th Jun 2009 15:34
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Duffer, Still doing exams

Only one more exam next week though, so I can start to work on BlitzTerrain again this weekend!

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
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Duffer
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Posted: 20th Jun 2009 18:19
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No worries - God how I hated exams. Sympathise. Sounds like you're nearly there though.

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
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kaedroho
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Posted: 21st Jun 2009 01:26 Edited at: 21st Jun 2009 01:32
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I'm going to limit the maximum number of terrains to 1. This is because the deleting commands will be impossible to make work the same way in C++ as in DBPro. Ill remove this limitation when the plugin is fully in C++.

Deleting commands are done!

One more thing to do then 1.05 can be released!!


Updated the following link which shows a few more changes:
http://devstorm.phpbbnew.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=39&p=76#p76

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
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kaedroho
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Posted: 21st Jun 2009 03:02
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When ive done this latest feature, it will take another 1 or 2 days to release. I have alot of Help files and demos to do.

Im changing the demo system. Tidy up the code and add more info like min/max/average FPS.

When the code has to explain how to use BlitzTerrain, I just think that its now got to a point that it cant do its job very well. So a rewrite is needed.

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
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kaedroho
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Posted: 21st Jun 2009 15:51 Edited at: 21st Jun 2009 15:52
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I'm posting my progress on the new demo system on the following thread:

http://devstorm.phpbbnew.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=66

Please follow it if your interested. Ill be posting some betas on there if you wish to try. You can also post new features to be added if you want.

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
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kaedroho
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Posted: 21st Jun 2009 23:41
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Ive just solved the pinholes bug!!!

I removed a bit of code which made the sectors 0.01% larger than they should be.

Ill have BlitzTerrain 1.05 Binary done by tonight hopefully!

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
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BMacZero
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Posted: 21st Jun 2009 23:49
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Hah! That's excellent news.



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kaedroho
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2009 00:09 Edited at: 22nd Jun 2009 00:09
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And even more! the normals bug is fixed!!! Which means that i have now finnished v1.05!!!!!

Screenshot:



New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.

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jeffhuys
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2009 00:11
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Hooray!! Much better! Release date possible?



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kaedroho
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2009 00:20 Edited at: 22nd Jun 2009 00:22
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Sometime in the next 2 - 3 days. I have a lot more to do on the help files and demo's yet. I would like to release that all in 1 go.

I will also put this into RC stage to iron out any more bugs if you find any.

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
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kaedroho
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2009 01:22
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Alright, I added another feature, Texture mode 1.

Basically, its designed to work like Advanced terrain and put the base texture one texture stage 0 and the detailmap on texture stage 1. This might solve the bug the n3wton reported. And it defintely solves the "texture errors" that people have been complaining about.

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
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kaedroho
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2009 01:29
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Well thats version 1.05 finnished!

Here is the full changelist:




I will release details on the following thread as soon as version 1.05 is available.

http://devstorm.phpbbnew.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=38

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
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N3wton
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2009 01:44
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Awsome!!!!

Well i finished my last exam last week, so i can fully work on getting shadows to look sweet with blitz terrain which is a life saver cos at the moment im using a .x object as my terrrain which is 100,000 + polygons, which halves my fps

thanks

N3wton

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kaedroho
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2009 01:50 Edited at: 22nd Jun 2009 01:52
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Ahh thats cool, let me know if you have any issues with BlitzTerrain and ill be more than glad to help out.


Were hopefully going to sell this through Xenmedia store. I dont think TGC will be interested after releasing about 1000 products in 1 month. Also, Xenmedia are an official partner of Blitzwerks (the team I work for).

Heres a link to their website for those who haven't seen: http://www.xenmedia.org

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
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James H
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2009 14:15
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Great, will look at when I next can, be sure not to neglect your revision though
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kaedroho
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2009 15:48 Edited at: 22nd Jun 2009 15:54
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Yeah, ok.

Well the .dll is fully converted!


2 problems

RTMS commands always give division by 0 error

Accidently broke texture mode 0 which is luckily, the really horrible looking one. So ive set the default texturemode to 1. But you if you dont like detailmaps for some reason, you can always change it to texturemode 0 which temporarily, doesnt add detailmaps.


I will be releasing version 1.5a very soon to get rid of these problems.

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
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kaedroho
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Posted: 22nd Jun 2009 17:37 Edited at: 22nd Jun 2009 17:40
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I have now Duplicated the String table. So you can access all of the functions with either UT or BT prefixes.


Release Date for Version 1.05: Friday 26th June

The Beta is now available! Please email me if you want to test it.

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
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Duffer
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2009 09:36
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@ Kaedroho,

Excellent. Will check up on Friday and test the release version 1.05.

Now you've moved websites, where are the help files now? Sorry found link to old ones but cant now find a link to new address for help files... did promise to look at that for you.

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kaedroho
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2009 15:20
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Heres the help files:

http://technology.blitzwerks.co.uk/BlitzTerrain/Help

Thanks for testing them

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
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kklouzal
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2009 23:43
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Hmm, maybe its just me, or maybe you forgot to include it in the download, but the only link i see on your site to download this does not include the files for Dark GDK.. =/

Come Check Out My W.I.P Post: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=151415&b=8
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kaedroho
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2009 23:45 Edited at: 23rd Jun 2009 23:46
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Dark GDK will need some porting first. Ill have to do some research.

Im guessing that its just like any other C++ application, all I have to do is include DarkGDK.h and I can use all the functions?

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
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kklouzal
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Posted: 23rd Jun 2009 23:47
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Ah....alright....I thought I saw somewhere in this thread that it was for dark gdk aswell.. Does this only work for terrain created with height maps? Or could it be applied to a large 3d model of say a planet that I created?

Come Check Out My W.I.P Post: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=151415&b=8
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kaedroho
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Posted: 24th Jun 2009 00:12
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Only heightmaps are supported. And yes, later on ill release a Dark GDK Version.

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
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kaedroho
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Posted: 24th Jun 2009 00:33
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With the new texturemode, LOD has less visual impact. So now I can make the LOD levels much lower. Meaning that the polys go lower.

I got a 130 000 poly mesh down to just 26 000 and it looked the exact same!.

Will a little playing around with the options, I can get it to go even lower than that. They were just random values I typed in.

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CuCuMBeR
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Posted: 24th Jun 2009 11:49
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I just downloaded the current version which i believe is 1.4.

In the "Demo4", all was good, i travelled around and then i pressed F1 to see whats going on. It gave an error as "object number not found" something like that.

"Environment" demo doesnt work at all, it says "memblock position out of range at line 60"

In the "exclusion" demo, excluded polys are "excluded" in the highest lod level, but when you go further those polys appear to be "included"

Fyi.

There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.
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kaedroho
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Posted: 24th Jun 2009 12:00
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Quote: "In the "Demo4", all was good, I travelled around and then I pressed F1 to see whats going on. It gave an error as "object number not found" something like that."


Ill find whats causing this. Did you change any code? if so, could you please post the changes you made?

Quote: ""Environment" demo doesnt work at all, it says "memblock position out of range at line 60""


I do remember a problem with Environment mapping. I know its fixed now.


Quote: "In the "exclusion" demo, excluded polys are "excluded" in the highest lod level, but when you go further those polys appear to be "included""


On lower LOD levels, the tiles take up more pixels on the exclusion map as they are bigger. All of the pixels under that tile must be excluded for the tile to be excluded. This prevents areas from being excluded when they don't need to be.



Just finnished my last exam! YAY!!!!!

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kaedroho
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Posted: 24th Jun 2009 13:10 Edited at: 24th Jun 2009 13:16
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Well, just added a large terrain into the demo system and it looks really amazing. I ran it without LOD and got 22 FPS. With LOD it got 100 FPS (using my old PC). It seems the bigger the terrain, the more the FPS increase. Ive also discovered that BlitzTerrain without LOD is faster than Advanced Terrain.

My suggestion is set your LOD distances really low, have a nice hi res texture and normal map all the low detail terrain to bring back the depth. It will look amazing! Ill even make it generate the normal map for you soon.

Ill throw an Advanced Terrain demo in too.

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
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CuCuMBeR
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Posted: 24th Jun 2009 13:41
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i didnt change the code. Its the original one.
Ran it second time but i couldnt reproduce the error.

There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.
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kaedroho
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Posted: 24th Jun 2009 13:56
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I know that I didnt put an object exist check before it sets its wireframe. I only added a sector exists check because exclusion mapping stops sectors from being made in the first place if the whole sector is excluded.

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
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draknir_
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Posted: 24th Jun 2009 14:27
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Hey does this work with DarkGDK? Or only DBP?
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kaedroho
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Only DBP right now. A GDK port is planned. I will port when I've got rid of all the bugs.

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
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kaedroho
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Posted: 25th Jun 2009 21:18 Edited at: 25th Jun 2009 23:47
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Me and the beta testers have found a whole nest of bugs. I do not recommend updating to the latest version!

If you wish to help out in the bug hunt, Download attached.

Sorry for any inconvenience.



Current known bugs:

pinholes are back!
occasionally getting a seam pop through
Texture mode 0 doesn't work at all
Crash when any other LOD level but 4 is used (so basically, you must run 4 LOD Levels)
VRAM usage higher than DBPro version. (Caused by conversion errors, I had to make it work )

I just came to the conclusion that there is too many bugs to let you guys use this in your games. So if you are working on a project which uses BlitzTerrain, DONT UPDATE!!! Please update if you wish to help me squash all these bugs. All help will be greatly appreciated.


On the upside...

This is the fastest version of BlitzTerrain yet! As the new texture mode minimises the visual impact of low detail terrains, you can have detail levels closer to you. This can give a decrease of up to 60% of polygons used for terrain rendering.

Deleting commands have been added. This did make me limit the terrains to 1 though... But they work perfectly without a leak.

BlitzTerrain WITHOUT LOD is faster than Advanced Terrain! This means that not only LOD increases the FPS, but the internal coding and the way the objects are made increases it too! RAM tests show that BlitzTerrain uses the exact same RAM usage as Advanced terrain. (I can make it much less though )

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.

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BMacZero
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Posted: 25th Jun 2009 23:17
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Aww...well thanks for the warning, I can wait!



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kaedroho
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Posted: 25th Jun 2009 23:50
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Thanks, I could probably fix most of those bugs very quickly though. VS is reporting a tonne of warnings which look like they could be causing all this. There are 60 of them.

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
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Zotoaster
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This is awesome. Shame there's no Dark GDK version yet. I'm interested in what algorithm you use. Could you give a quick explanation, or a link to one? Thanks
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kaedroho
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Posted: 26th Jun 2009 18:05 Edited at: 26th Jun 2009 18:13
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I didnt use the internet to find this algorithm. Just about 6 months of programming and I finally got it.

I basically took the whole idea from Advanced Terrain, the way it splits the parts of the terrain up. So I made a system that generates multiple levels of detail for each of these sectors and just make it display the right one.

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
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