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Mobiius
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Posted: 30th Jul 2009 15:18
Quote: "Lua is a programming language"

Actually, it isn't. It's a pure scripting language.

Your signature has been erased by a mod because it is way too awesome!
thenerd
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Posted: 30th Jul 2009 15:30
Whoops. that's what I meant...sort of.
I need coffee.

Mobiius
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Posted: 30th Jul 2009 15:39
lol.

Your signature has been erased by a mod because it is way too awesome!
Monk
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Posted: 30th Jul 2009 16:16
Whats the advantage of using LUA over just writing it in DBPro?

Monk


I like work. It fascinates me. I sit and look at it for hours.
greenlig
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Posted: 30th Jul 2009 16:27
Is this actually going to be full open source?

Blender3D - CS3 - VISTA - DBPro
thenerd
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Posted: 30th Jul 2009 16:28 Edited at: 30th Jul 2009 16:29
Quote: "Whats the advantage of using LUA over just writing it in DBPro?"


You can use it to change parts of a level without changing the source code. Don't you think it is sort of messy to have to compile the code every time you make a change to a level?it just gets very confusing, and your code gets very long. Lua saves time.

Quote: "Is this actually going to be full open source?"

yup.

Monk
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Posted: 30th Jul 2009 16:32
Quote: "You can use it to change parts of a level without changing the source code. Don't you think it is sort of messy to have to compile the code every time you make a change to a level?it just gets very confusing, and your code gets very long. Lua saves time."


Gonna be a new learning curve.. =)

Monk


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tgm4l
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Posted: 30th Jul 2009 16:39
I'll be glad to model some weapons/world or contribute something to the storyline.

Is the game going to be futuristic or modern?
kaedroho
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Posted: 30th Jul 2009 16:43 Edited at: 30th Jul 2009 16:51
Quote: "I think we need to make it all LUA coded, so we write the engine, write some code, load up some code to make it easier to experiment with."


NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

Use lua ONLY for scripting entities, etc.

XML for everything else like defining objects, etc.

Engine should be made in DBPro

Ive made that mistake before, it really complicates development.

LUA is great for scripting objects though. Use it for making start, run and end scripts for entities.

Use XML for maps.

Monk
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Posted: 30th Jul 2009 16:52
Quote: "Is the game going to be futuristic or modern? "

Modern.
Thanks for the offer =)

Quote: "Use lua ONLY for scripting entities, etc.

XML for everything else like defining objects, etc.

Engine should be made in DBPro"


Huh?!? I dont really know this kinda stuff

Monk


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kaedroho
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Posted: 30th Jul 2009 16:53
Heres a nice format you should use.

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Monk
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Posted: 30th Jul 2009 16:57
.bt3map format??

I just clicked on open, and it opened in IE. View source showed



Is that LUA? And whys that a good format?

Sorry about all the questions...

Monk


I like work. It fascinates me. I sit and look at it for hours.
kaedroho
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Posted: 30th Jul 2009 16:59 Edited at: 30th Jul 2009 17:03
Thats LUA/XML

The XML structures the whole file. LUA puts code into it.

If you dont want to use that, then thats fine as long as you can find another alternative to using LUA for everything.

As long as I'm not coding a terrain module to go into an engine which relys on lua for everything, I'm fine.

Monk
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Posted: 30th Jul 2009 17:03
How come were gonna use XML, LUA and DBPro. Is it just gonna be easier?

Sounds like im gonna have to spend some time learning =(

Monk


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kaedroho
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Posted: 30th Jul 2009 17:04 Edited at: 30th Jul 2009 17:05
Well, the first and only thing im gonna say about that is.

It is alot easier than coding everything in LUA, letting DBPro to run it.


No, DBPro is separate. Just dont make a little program that only runs LUA scripts.

thenerd
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Posted: 30th Jul 2009 17:09 Edited at: 30th Jul 2009 17:10
it really is easier! using Lua for everything is a hassle, but not using it at all is worse.
For using Lua, XML, and DB combined, I've never done it, but it might work.
I've used them all before, so it wouldn't be a problem.

it might be because I am used to HTML, but I think XML is easy.

does .bt3map stand for blitz terrain 3 map?

kaedroho
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Posted: 30th Jul 2009 17:10 Edited at: 30th Jul 2009 17:14
thenerd,


Quote: "does .bt3map stand for blitz terrain 3 map?"


Nope, it stands for BlitzTech3 Map. A game engine I was working on earlier this year. It now has its own team of 3 programmers. I left so I can work on a terrain engine called BlitzTerrain.

I wrote the file formats for it. I've got many ideas to improve the system now.

thenerd
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Posted: 30th Jul 2009 17:11
nice!

kaedroho
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Posted: 30th Jul 2009 17:20 Edited at: 30th Jul 2009 17:23
Oh yes, another example.

The main script file...

The prefixes change slightly because I ported UberEngine to make a module for it.

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tgm4l
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Posted: 30th Jul 2009 19:47
Tell me what guns you need and I'll model and texture them.
Tom J
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Posted: 30th Jul 2009 20:17 Edited at: 30th Jul 2009 20:36
Just suggestions for story elaboration.

Quote: "but not where it is and what its like."


Location: Pacific island perhaps, tropical is popular; but quite common. Alternatively you could have an island in between Russia and the USA that has a more tundra or forest look. Some debate needed on that one

The island would probably be a mix of complexes/bases and forest (whether it be tropical or not), as has already been stated.

The actual background of the island could be recent, it would be a very idealistic place - formed as sort of like a haven from the world as with the city in Bioshock. The island would have attempted isolation and self-sustainability, but has had to turn away from that following a national economic downturn. As a consequence it had to turn towards making threats to gain influence. It could be that a new anti-global faction has got into power during the downturn.


Quote: "Weve mentioned the elite squad but not who they are.
Just a little bit of history is needed.
"


A random group of international soldiers who have excelled in war or training, initiated into the squad through some form of "lottery". The International crisis reponse force was formed in 2001 following fears of recurring international crises after 9/11, but has not yet had the selected members called into a mission. This will be their first mission, and one in which the selected members must quickly integrate with one another.

---

Actually, as a plot turning point, what would be cool would be if the soldiers make it to the bomb by just day 3/4, but are then betrayed by one of the countries and so have to retreat to the far end of the island, to make a second assault. It makes for more interest than just one long journey to reach the bomb. I think a proper synopsis of every level and development needs to be written up, because even this isn't adequete detail for a game with a storyline.
wickedly kick it
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Posted: 30th Jul 2009 20:20
Let me give everyone an example of lua.
You tell your dbp program to load/execute all the lua scripts in the weapons folder, then it will draw out all the details of the gun, like in lua you could say
name="Pistol";
MaxAmmo=7;
Damage=120;

and then make a type/array to hold all the data for this object allowing you to simply edit the variables/some functions without even touching the dbp compiler.

thenerd
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Posted: 31st Jul 2009 00:11
Tom J - I like it!

wickedly kick it - that is probably one of the best uses for lua

kaedroho
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Posted: 31st Jul 2009 01:49 Edited at: 31st Jul 2009 02:10
wickedly kick it, I would definitely rather use XML for that job. As your using Lua for main scripting, I think setting loads of variables into it will add lots of overhead.

Its thenerds decision anyway. That method does work quite well. But there are better ways to do it. I cant stand the thought of using lua for everything.


i would rather use them both together, you can also add scripts in too.



Or, if you like making packs of different filetypes, you can put them all into 1 file.



BMacZero
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Posted: 31st Jul 2009 02:18
Anyway, we can get started on the engine without making a decision on Lua, right? We should probably do that. Besides, for any part that's just:

Quote: "name="Pistol";
MaxAmmo=7;
Damage=120;"


It would be trivial to write your own 10-line parser to put the info in an array.



Diggsey: I have a spine and memory, but one memorable guy says he hates me. What am I?
AndrewT
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Posted: 31st Jul 2009 02:27 Edited at: 31st Jul 2009 02:27
I'm not part of this project, so my opinion might not matter, but I agree with kaedroho here about LUA and XML. XML is a data formatting language, and thus should be used for entity properties, level data, weapon data, etc. LUA is a scripting language and should be used for entity scripts (OnCreate, OnUpdate, OnDestroy). And IMO you guys should take advantage of both XML and LUA as much as possible.

i like orange
wickedly kick it
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Posted: 31st Jul 2009 08:02
I think lua is good for both, and mixing both just makes it more complex when lua can do just fine.

kuljot
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Posted: 31st Jul 2009 08:45
LOl this suff is getting complicated. Maybe i should stay away from programming.

Gateway GT5628 Quad Core Desktop Intel Core 2 Q6600 2.4GHz Quad Core 3072MB RAM / 500GB 7200 SATA II Hard drive DVD RW 18X multi dual NVIDIA GeForce 8500GT ....
Monk
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Posted: 31st Jul 2009 09:30






Im gonna do a bit of googling......

Monk


I like work. It fascinates me. I sit and look at it for hours.
kaedroho
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Posted: 31st Jul 2009 13:27 Edited at: 31st Jul 2009 13:30
Ive done it both ways before. XML/LUA is easier than just LUA!

XML/LUA allows you to have multiple scripts per file. If you dont think this, then try making loads of lua files with the same function names, then loading them. ALl the functions will overwrite each other.

XML gives you the name of the script and the code separately. So you can quickly sneak a little prefix in for that file preventing any overwrites.

thenerd
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Posted: 31st Jul 2009 14:06 Edited at: 31st Jul 2009 14:07
Quote: "LOl this suff is getting complicated. Maybe i should stay away from programming."
Just a little reminder, XML and Lua will not magically combine to create a game engine with shooting, collision, and physics. we should focus on more important things. when it comes time for that, then we can argue over it.

Bmaczero, the cornershot is looking great! keep it up!

kaedroho
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Posted: 31st Jul 2009 14:54 Edited at: 31st Jul 2009 14:55
If you want me to, ill code all the file formats. Just tell me which functions I need to call to load something (in the engine), and it shall be done.

thenerd
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Posted: 31st Jul 2009 15:22 Edited at: 31st Jul 2009 15:24
just a question: can dbpro parce zip files?
because I just had an idea: a file, for example a character file, would simply be a zip file with a different extension, so you would be able to open it in winzip or similar.
in the zip, there would be different files, depending on the type of data. for example, a character file might have four files:
stats.txt
model.dbo
tex.png
file_list.txt
the file list would list the names of the files and what they represent. the file could be encrypted, compressed, and voila! new file format.


also, in cartography shop there is an entity system. how would one go about loading that data into db?

kaedroho
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Posted: 31st Jul 2009 15:59 Edited at: 31st Jul 2009 16:06
You would need the Enhancements expansion pack for it though. But I believe this feature is in the Free version too. FPSC uses it.

UberEngine used that. See attached example.

As you can see inside, there is a lua file. I think this points out the pointlessness of using lua.


Quote: "also, in cartography shop there is an entity system. how would one go about loading that data into db?"


Cartography shop is like 3DWS. There is a .dbo importer for files exported with 3D World Studio in the inca pro demo.

There is also a .3dws importer, but I don't think CS can export to that format.


Another great problem with lua is that you MUST fill in every variable. If you don't, it will return the variable set from the last loaded file. XML will return a 0.

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AndrewT
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Posted: 31st Jul 2009 16:15
Quote: "I think lua is good for both, and mixing both just makes it more complex when lua can do just fine."


If you think LUA is good for both you've probably never used it in a big project before. As kaedroho pointed out, in LUA you have to give a value for every single variable. What if you have 30 total weapon properties, and only 3 of them are actually required and the rest are optional? Then you end up having to set 27 extra properties to 0 just so that you don't get a "value is nil" error. Also, you should never avoid a better option just because it makes your project more complex, especially in a project this big.

i like orange
thenerd
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Posted: 31st Jul 2009 16:21 Edited at: 31st Jul 2009 16:22
Quote: "Cartography shop is like 3DWS. There is a .dbo importer for files exported with 3D World Studio in the inca pro demo.

There is also a .3dws importer, but I don't think CS can export to that format."
does that mean to do that I would need 3dws?
If it does, I'll have to figure out another way. I don't really like Cs anyway. It's the exact same as map-scape, only it loads faster.

kaedroho
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Posted: 31st Jul 2009 16:22
It might work if you use the code from the inca pro demo and export to .dbo.

AndrewT, Thanks!

thenerd
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Posted: 31st Jul 2009 16:24 Edited at: 31st Jul 2009 16:25
we might as well make our own level editor, because it looks like everyone has different tools on hand.
Sasuke was making one, right?

kaedroho
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Posted: 31st Jul 2009 16:26 Edited at: 31st Jul 2009 16:30
Could I code all the file formats? I've used LUA, XML and Zips god knows how many times now, and I think it will take it off everyone's shoulders if I just code it.


Have we got anyone working on the Shell? I think its important to make a Shell as well.

thenerd
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Posted: 31st Jul 2009 16:35
oh, sorry, of course you can. you seem the most knowledgeable about it.

I made a nice gui for my other game, I could neaten up the code and we could use it. I will post a youtube vid in a few minutes.

thenerd
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Posted: 31st Jul 2009 16:46 Edited at: 31st Jul 2009 16:47
here it is!
sorry for the low quality, it's all I had time for. Its also my first youtube vid.

kaedroho
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Posted: 31st Jul 2009 16:54 Edited at: 31st Jul 2009 16:56
Excellent looking GUI there, heres a little draft of the file formats. Its based on Uber2.0 but with a few changes.

I think we should use a file structure like:




Then all Media files should be encrypted, compressed zips with a different extension. And have the following files in it.

.shell - loaded by the shell, this just saves it from having to load all the data at the beginning.
.engine - the actual file

The two above files must be in XML/LUA format.


Example of a world file:

File structure:


.shell


.engine


thenerd
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Posted: 31st Jul 2009 16:57 Edited at: 31st Jul 2009 17:00
I love the structure! simple and easy to understand, yet powerful.

Quote: "<position>100:200:40</position>"
and you could make a level editor that when you placed something automatically generated that code!

kaedroho
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Posted: 31st Jul 2009 17:00
Missed something out:



thenerd
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Posted: 31st Jul 2009 17:01
ah, the version! very important!


Quote: "SetupPlayer()
enemy=GetHandle(ACTOR,"actor1">
KillActor(enemy)"

lol! wouldn't that just kill the enemy whenever you loaded it?
loading...
loading...
loading...
you win!
(back to menu)
!

kaedroho
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Posted: 31st Jul 2009 17:03
Yep, but i didnt script it to detect when all the actors are dead, did I?

thenerd
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Posted: 31st Jul 2009 19:15
wouldn't that not be level-specific code, thus part of the engine?

mitch793
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Posted: 31st Jul 2009 21:27 Edited at: 31st Jul 2009 22:10
Hi.
Im good at texturing and modeling, see my work at http://www.youtube.com/mitchr793 and http://mitch793.deviantart.com
EDIT
Sorry if im a bit late coming in...

If you can't find it, code it yourself!
kaedroho
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Posted: 31st Jul 2009 23:12 Edited at: 31st Jul 2009 23:13
Quote: "wouldn't that not be level-specific code, thus part of the engine?"


Depends on the engine. In most cases the level decides when its finished. Because sometimes you have to do more than kill all the baddies.

thenerd
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Posted: 31st Jul 2009 23:17 Edited at: 31st Jul 2009 23:20
very true.

Quote: "Hi.
Im good at texturing and modeling, see my work at http://www.youtube.com/mitchr793 and http://mitch793.deviantart.com
EDIT
Sorry if im a bit late coming in..."
Not at all... judging by your work, you are great at animation...maybe you could do cutscenes, ex something at the beginning that explains the story.
If you are really good at modelling, you could make some characters....

"Looking Over The Earth" reminds me of heroes...

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