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Work in Progress / ESF - New Demo with planet shaders and more

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Ermes
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Posted: 7th Dec 2010 14:32 Edited at: 7th Dec 2010 14:59
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i can't stand this:

for 3d, i'm using a 3dmax 4.0, i think it's about 2000 or 2001 release (9 years ago), i'm working on bumping my ships, i can use diffuse map with bumb mapping without problems.

ok, wow it's easy! >>exporting 3ds, but dbpro crash.

ok, why not! converting in .x! >>> it lose the bump mapping.

ok! texture in dbpro! >> using the same bump mapping with set bump mapping on etc, it's not the same way because i think this command is in dbpro just to increase the number of the effect commands, because it's useless, almost like the other set something map on, it's this the reason why we use effect .fx i think.

but ok, i know, allows user effects it's nice, but the idea dbpro has inbuilt useless effects forcing users to write their own effects or downloading from others, well, what a bad feeling.



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Morcilla
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Posted: 7th Dec 2010 17:48
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Quote: "about blue light: they are ghost fading objects, slowly flashing. not a new detail, but the old system has only fixed ghosted object,now lights are flashing as i said before.
esf has blue light, kab has red light, and so on."

Funny one week ago I incoporated position lights as well

Quote: "normal maps: well, actually i haven't any idea of what a normal map is and how to work with it. i've downloaded xnormal, i've created a normal map, but i'm sure i'm not good with this things because it's useless (the normal map)."

You can think of normal maps as those 3dmax bump mapping textures, but it is a common approach to apply normal maps when working with DirectX. You can tell it is a normal map because of its (usually) blue tone.

Quote: "...and it's really botherous to apply fx every sync to keep the fx effects working. thanks TGC... i'm sure this is a last minute cumbersome adjustment to let nvidia fx works with dbpro."

Well, I'm pretty much afraid that it is the way things are done, it is not a nvidia or TGC choice by themselves. To use the normal map, you know:

- Load the normal map effect
- Load the textures
- Load the object
- Texture the object with the needed textures per stage. Usually diffuse texture is stage 0 and normal map texture is stage 1.
- Set the effect variables values
- Apply the effect to the object
- Then feed the shader variable when needed (usually when they change, but this not neccesarily means every loop).

Quote: "... some ships are texturized with 2 or more texture file..."

Well, I don't know how your are using your textures. If you are using any of those 'set detail mapping' commands, or any stage different than 0, then the shaders usually will need to be customized to obtain the same result.
If, on the other side, all those textures are just diffuse textures that you use for different limbs, then you should have no problem by just adding the normal map texture and shader.

Quote: "ok, wow it's easy! >>exporting 3ds, but dbpro crash.

ok, why not! converting in .x! >>> it lose the bump mapping.

ok! texture in dbpro! >> using the same bump mapping with set bump mapping on etc"

I recommend to open your mind to the shader effects and forget about other in-built commands for appearance, they are not as flexible as shaders are. Forget also about 3ds materials etc.
Always try to use .dbo and .fx files

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Ermes
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Posted: 7th Dec 2010 20:20
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thanks Morcilla to reply me.

next games will be developed with shaders from the beginning, now i can't and i don't want to rewrite all the ships code and textures, but yes i will work as you writed, diffuse on stage 0, normal on stage 1, then apply the fx, and change the light direction constant if it's needed.

so, ESF ships will be without normal maps.

the number of triangle of the ships are now quadruplied, to improve the specular effect dbpro builted in.



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Clonkex
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Posted: 7th Dec 2010 21:27
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Hey Ermes,

I played the old demo. I hope you changed the English so it's more like normal English. For example, "Loading Game's Data" should be "Loading Data". Everyone already knows who's data you are loading.

Can't wait for the full version!

Clonkex

Making games is easy.....finishing them is a different matter.

Intel Core 2 Duo 2.8Ghz, Nvidia GeForce 9400 GT 512mb, 1gb ram.
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Ermes
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Posted: 8th Dec 2010 00:30 Edited at: 8th Dec 2010 00:42
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Clonkex, if you have any other english help, you're welcome.

i can say for sure italian version is perfect.

it lacks on english.



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Morcilla
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Posted: 8th Dec 2010 10:15
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Quote: "i don't want to rewrite all the ships code and textures"

I agree. In my opinion, it is better to see the job finished. Then you can update it in the future, if you want. First version of the MPL3D project only had 1 shader around.

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Ermes
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Posted: 8th Dec 2010 11:31 Edited at: 8th Dec 2010 11:35
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well, with specular effect of dbpro, it isn't so bad.

please,i'm asking HELP, english teacher i spoked before is no more on this project, so, this is the file to correct in a normal english, i know it is a long work, the one who take care of this will be in the main titlescreen as "english translator",this is the best i can offer.

let me know is someone is available.

note: the format is all with data statment, for a better reading when i edit mission or recontrol all the missions sequence, in the game italian version is in the same "case" selection of the english version. the line rem with the "*" is the max length of the line, and n$ is the name of the player. don't change this if you can.

please, help me. i can't release the game with this horrible english.



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thenerd
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Posted: 8th Dec 2010 20:37
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I can look through it, and at least translate a section. If I have time I'll try to do it all.


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Ermes
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Posted: 8th Dec 2010 20:58
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well, i have an idea, every user can take a small part on this, and tell us what they are translating,example,

thenerd = mission 1 to 4
clonkex = mission 10 to 15
morcilla = tutorial page 1

(users name are used as example )

so, it can be avoided only one user do this hard work.

really, i'm in a big pain for this!



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thenerd
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Posted: 8th Dec 2010 21:01
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Don't worry, the translations shouldn't take that long at all... just looking over it, the english is pretty good, some of it I would reword, but mostly it gets the point across. I've already done the training mission.


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Ermes
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Posted: 8th Dec 2010 21:15
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thanks! i'm very happy of this, i can't find words to show you my gratitude.



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Ermes
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Posted: 9th Dec 2010 00:10
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no way to have a shader working on one limb making it ghosted or working on alpha channel.

i used GG alpha and one called limbalpha, but they didn't work good.

any advice???



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Morcilla
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Posted: 9th Dec 2010 12:08 Edited at: 9th Dec 2010 12:09
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Quote: "no way to have a shader working on one limb making it ghosted or working on alpha channel."

Does your diffuse texture has something on its alpha channel?
As you know, the textures store 0-255 (r,g,b,a) values. If the alpha ('a') channel is unset it can be full white or black.

Green Gandalf's normal map shader (ggbump05.fx) seems to use the alpha of the diffuse texture.
Also notice that this shader uses 3 textures: diffuse, normal and specular. If you do not feed the specular map, the result can go wrong (it can be as easy as a black texture = no specularity).

You can also try to force the alpha value in the shader itself, like this (just check the last line where the comment appears, the rest is the same):



If you need help beyond this point, maybe you'll need to post some simple code to see what you are doing. If the error persist, maybe you could ask for help directly in the DBPro forum.
By the way, weren't you closing the project before getting dirty again? Don't worry, I understand

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Ermes
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Posted: 9th Dec 2010 13:08
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ok, get the point, i was feeding the shader with only one texture and without alpha.

later i will try with adding those textures!!!! i think i can make it.

yes the game is finished, but i want to make it a bit more better.

simply adding some limb to be setted to transparent, and not for all the ships.

i'll try this evening.



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Ermes
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Posted: 9th Dec 2010 19:06 Edited at: 9th Dec 2010 23:10
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still not work as it should. and it's the time to write a good F*CK SHADERS! F*CK NVIDIA!

there is something wrong with this. yes i have a lot of alpha, it change the color on the object inside the canopy, but i can't see the canopy.

undergoing intensive testing.

edit: still believing a simple inbuilt DBPRO command to ghost limbs can be a nice idea.

no way, no way and no way.
i've downloaded snippets, still the same problems, the canopy isn't transparent, i can see things inside the canopy, but the canopy hide all the objects outside the canopy. incredible.
i'm not so dumb, there is something wrong with my object i think, so, anyone has an example of a ghosted limb? just to cotrol where is my fault.

example of my problems: alpha ghosting called "limbalpha"



using morcilla example:


alpha channel, no alpha, specularity, i changed all, no way.

i never give up usually, i will get it soon or later.





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swissolo
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Posted: 9th Dec 2010 23:00
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Sorry, I can't really tell what's wrong . Were you talking about set object transparency obj, 6 and set alpha mapping on obj, %*100 ? Is the texture on it missing?

BTW when you use stars, be sure to remove a letter.

swis
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Ermes
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Posted: 9th Dec 2010 23:12 Edited at: 10th Dec 2010 08:06
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ops letter removed.

i don't know channel 6 and alpha you're talking about, i am totally black on shaders.

usually i download a snippet, change what i've to change, and use it.

for night/day planet cycle worked ok.

edit: find what is wrong on my model:

my limb to ghost is the limb number 2.

so.... limb number 1 is visible but 3,4,5 and so on aren't visible from the canopy.... the canopy must be the last limb to have this shader works!!!!

about morcilla's example, well, i think is the best but canopy still hided.

well, i'm botherous i know but
i need a complete example of this shader usage. this is my files, object, maps, limb is number 2 of the object.

BTW, it is possible to become MAD to ghost an object limb????? yes, if you're using DBPRO and you are totally lost on shaders.



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Morcilla
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Posted: 10th Dec 2010 11:01 Edited at: 10th Dec 2010 11:02
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Quote: " the canopy must be the last limb to have this shader works!!!!"

I'm afraid you have confirmed this behaviour. I thought it wasn't really required but it seems it is.

You can try three things:

-Make sure that you load a separate texture for the transparent limb, and with a higher texture id than the rest of the ship. This happens because of texture z-order default rendering.

or, as you said,

-Make the transparent limb the last limb in the model. To do so, you can change it with the 3d editor, but also you can add the last limb with some code, using Make Object From Limb/Add Limb and hiding the original limb.

or,

As I see that you are not having a very good time with shaders, I recall that there is other 'workless' way, but Texture Object cannot be used.
It relies on 3ds materials, as you want, but I do not recommend it because its lack of flexibility:
Define the limb as a transparent material in 3dsmax.
Load the object and let it auto-load the texture (it will because it is specified in the .x file, just leave it in the same folder), do not use Texture Object neither any shader file, because it will destroy 3dsmax materials. Transparent limb should be transparent.

By the way, I'm watching the .x file but the 'canopy' is upside down, out of place and single-sided uh:



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Ermes
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Posted: 10th Dec 2010 11:43 Edited at: 10th Dec 2010 23:03
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ah yes, it is upside down because i was trying to understand why that strange cull mode. it is ok, the model is like this.

can't understand why is so hard to ghost a limb.

usually i use two objects and glue the ghosted one to the other, but i've two objects to manage. with shaders i can use one object.

but this is only theory.

now i've a week to fix ships poly number to optimize the reflection system. low poly=bad reflections, hipoly=good reflexctions but lower FPS. i'm balancing that.



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Indicium
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Posted: 11th Dec 2010 19:53
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Ermes, I'm wondering if you've included any close up stars in this game, and if you did, how did you achieve the effect?

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Ermes
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Posted: 11th Dec 2010 20:25
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what are close up stars? suns? please explain!



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Ermes
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Posted: 13th Dec 2010 17:17 Edited at: 13th Dec 2010 17:20
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optimized polynumbers of ships. changed the sunshine effect, removed sprite alpha (very slow and demanding) and used a ghosted + faded plane ahead of the cam. >>>> great. fast. nice.

planned to insert bonus short campaigns (3 missions or so) with some other alien races, so more ships , alien portraits and planets to add.

i hope i can have the english corrected version of the missions.



please....



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baxslash
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Posted: 13th Dec 2010 17:35 Edited at: 13th Dec 2010 17:36
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I did the tutorials for you attached. I can do some missions too if you like? Just post which ones and I'll do them...

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baxslash
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Posted: 13th Dec 2010 18:05
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Here are mission 35 up.

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Indicium
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Posted: 13th Dec 2010 21:39
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Quote: "what are close up stars? suns? please explain!"


Sorry for not making myself clear.



At any point in your game do you come this close to a star? or sun?

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Ermes
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Posted: 13th Dec 2010 23:08 Edited at: 13th Dec 2010 23:49
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thanks baxslash, every help is very useful!!!

Quote: "Sorry for not making myself clear. "

oh well, it's my fault i'm not so good with english language.
about stars... no, in my game they are just small spheres with a blended plain around... sorry!!!!

edit. readed the corrected mission of baxslash! well done, i'm happy users will understand a bit more the missions from 35 and up, and the tutorials are more clean, thanks again!!! i'm placing your name in the credits.
what name i have to use? "baxslash" is ok? mail? www? something else??



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Ermes
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Posted: 14th Dec 2010 13:04
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ok, i've mission 35 to 45, 81 to 88 and tutorials, now, asked with humility and courtesy, can someone else take care of some missions 1 to 35??? thanks!!!



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baxslash
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Posted: 14th Dec 2010 13:18 Edited at: 14th Dec 2010 14:53
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I'll start working my way backwards from 35

1->35 covered!

EDIT: Here's some more...
EDIT 2: Added from 19 to 25...
EDIT 3: Added from 8 to 18... edited "rendezvous"
EDIT 4: DONE!!


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baxslash
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Posted: 14th Dec 2010 14:13
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Sorry for double posting but I just noticed you spelled "rendezvous" wrong too. I'm just correcting it for the above post which will on edit 3 contain the corrected version.



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Ermes
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Posted: 14th Dec 2010 17:09 Edited at: 14th Dec 2010 19:43
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incredible!!!! Baxslash clean up ALL the mess in my missions!!!!!

GREAT!!! what i've to do to reciprocate?? (reciprocate=google translation)

i'm very happy of this, i haven't words. (and if i have some, as you know baxslash, they can be writed wrong too... )

edit:

ok all missions are now in an excellent english thanks to Baxslash.

idem for tutorials. thanks.



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thenerd
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Posted: 14th Dec 2010 21:59
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I'm sorry I didn't have time to translate for you like I said, I was busy with school work... thanks baxslash for doing an excellent job!


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Ermes
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Posted: 14th Dec 2010 22:49 Edited at: 14th Dec 2010 23:28
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oh yes,thanks baxslash for the work, and thanks also thenerd, at least he was with his mind about helping me.

thanks mates!



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baxslash
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Posted: 15th Dec 2010 10:14
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Quote: "what i've to do to reciprocate??"

Just finish the game. I hope I did it justice.

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Ermes
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Posted: 15th Dec 2010 11:12
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game is already finished. just cleaning up code to gain some fps, adding some effect and some extra missions + extra ships.



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baxslash
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Posted: 15th Dec 2010 11:32
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Quote: "and some extra missions"

Just Email me any new text and I'll check it for you

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Ermes
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Posted: 15th Dec 2010 13:11
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for sure! thanks, it's about 3 new missions, not too much to do.



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Ermes
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Posted: 15th Dec 2010 14:43
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then.. more difficult:

i would like to know how to use a fullscreen shader like "bloom.fx",

any good tutorials? i've readed the help file coming with dark shader, hey man, that things are writted just to say "hey you dumb,what are you complaining, there are instructions!".
as ever, lacking of tutorials is one of the reasons TGC products look less professionals than the others.



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baxslash
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Posted: 15th Dec 2010 14:57 Edited at: 15th Dec 2010 14:58
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Quote: "any good tutorials? i've readed the help file coming with dark shader, hey man, that things are writted just to say "hey you dumb,what are you complaining, there are instructions!".
as ever, lacking of tutorials is one of the reasons TGC products look less professionals than the others."

There's a simple method using Sven B's Image Kit (V2) and IanM's Matrix Utility commands (latest version) using this code:


EDIT: Put your HUD code in where I indicated...

...using the addaptive post-bloom effect by bond1 here:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=177210&b=24

...but I haven't really tried the code on this effect yet...

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Ermes
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Posted: 15th Dec 2010 15:25 Edited at: 15th Dec 2010 15:26
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to study at.

i know you worked hard for me baxslash, i've something else to control, ships info (7 text line each, 117 ships) ,intro (dark coder corrected but i modified that, so it is to control) and final text. i'm very and i don't want to bother you but you are my best man for this.


sorry sorry



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baxslash
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Posted: 15th Dec 2010 15:59
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No problem

Stop being so apologetic, I want to see this project finished, I really admire the work you're putting in!

I'll get them done ASAP...

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Ermes
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Posted: 15th Dec 2010 19:37
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ok, i will apoligize no more! thanks.

i'm not in hurry, release date is 15 jan 2012, so As Soon As Possible but take your time!



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Ermes
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Posted: 15th Dec 2010 23:10 Edited at: 16th Dec 2010 09:54
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fullscreen bloom:

managed to do it with dark shader example, but only with a res of 640 x 480. i don't know how to set the quad.fx for other res.



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Dr Tank
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Posted: 16th Dec 2010 11:15 Edited at: 16th Dec 2010 11:24
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Without seeing the code, in my experience with shaders, the .fx file does not have resolution in. IIRC, with "bloom", you render to another camera, and this image is used by the shader. Look for the DBP command "set camera to image" and change the image dimensions there. Alternatively post in the shader thread here and someone who knows what they're talking about might help you out: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=91453&b=1&p=49

BTW this project is impressive! You have a fairly distinctive and solid aesthetic too.
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Ermes
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Posted: 16th Dec 2010 11:24 Edited at: 16th Dec 2010 11:25
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i'll do.

BTW, the example set the constant "ViewPort" of the effect quad.fx to a vector 640,480 ... it's clear this is the res. and if i change that, it crash.

i will upload a demo of this soon.

edit: thanks!



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Morcilla
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Posted: 16th Dec 2010 16:47
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Quote: "the example set the constant "ViewPort" of the effect quad.fx to a vector 640,480 ... it's clear this is the res. and if i change that, it crash."

Use Screen Width() and Screen Height(), so it can adapt to any resolution...

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Ermes
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Posted: 17th Dec 2010 23:30 Edited at: 18th Dec 2010 06:51
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a new race, the "STRUNZ" (TBA) with their BioShip.



enemy, of course.

in the final version (already done) there are about 20 small tentacles animated under the belly of the ships.



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Ermes
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Posted: 19th Dec 2010 03:57
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i've uploaded on youtube a nice video of this game, in LQ and HQ, 10 mb and 35 mb.
youtube is still stucked in processing video, 5 hours.... and nothing.
maybe we will see something in a day or two. what a mess.



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Ermes
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Posted: 19th Dec 2010 10:55 Edited at: 19th Dec 2010 20:37
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ok. only HQ video. best if you right click and "watch on youtube"





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Starbuzzzz
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Posted: 19th Dec 2010 23:45
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Very impressive ! Whow :S
Excellent work my friend I didn't know that italian people could fly, and fly in the space ! ))

Starbuzzzz
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Ermes
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Joined: 27th May 2003
Location: ITALIA
Posted: 20th Dec 2010 00:01
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ah ah, BTW you aren't ATM aware of what french can do in my game.



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