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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Your 3 Most Annoying Bugs

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=PRoF=
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Posted: 10th Feb 2012 13:41 Edited at: 11th Feb 2012 01:27
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I'm not sure if this counts as a show stopper, and I'm fairly certain that it's a compiler issue; but as I still see a new thread pop up with it every once and a while I thought I might add it to the list of suggestions.

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=154972&b=1

The one where compilation fails and you see and error similar to this...



I know there are several work arounds available (i.e excluding your project folder from AV checks, or simply closing all the open windows before you compile your project - which is the one that works for me) but still feel this is a problem worthy of mentioning.

>Edit<

Fixed the image white space issue


Bitmap Font Creator Alpha Out Now!
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 10th Feb 2012 14:00 Edited at: 10th Feb 2012 14:01
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I get that sometimes.

Usually, but not always, the error arises as follows. Compile your project using Windowed mode - and then try to recompile without closing the running window. For example, just use Window in the project's Screen Type options and compile and run the following:



Then try to compile again without closing the window. That's easy to do when you're debugging and you want to compare the code with what's appearing on screen, then make a fix to the code and then recompile while forgetting to close the running window. I do that a lot () when working on other people's code (I don't usually use windowed mode myself).

My guess is that there might be a timing issue here - so even when you've closed the window (or a non-windowed program has terminated normally) it might be possible for you to hit the compile and run button before the previous files, etc, have been properly closed/deleted. Hard to reproduce consistently though. Tends to happen more often on my old laptop where the system periodically slows down to cool off (I guess that's what it's doing anyway ).

Quote: "but still feel this is a problem worthy of mentioning"


It is - especially since it only started happening around the time the new editor was developed if I recall correctly. However, I don't think Lee's looking at that sort of issue now.
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JackDawson
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Posted: 10th Feb 2012 14:08
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@ =PRoF=, haha, yea I remember getting those. If there was a LOCK file put on the drive while its compiling, it would fix this problem. The error occurs when your trying to compile more then one at a time. So if a "lock" file is on the drive, before it goes to compile, it would see if that file is on the drive. If not, then it would go ahead and compile. Once its done compiling, it removes the lock file. I normally use one for my servers. I name it server.lck. But in this case it could be DBP.LCK. ( HINT - Remember Windows 7 Permissions )

@ Lee, Its an easy fix.

"Life is like a box of chocolates.. eat it before it melts."
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 10th Feb 2012 15:46
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Since that may be the cause then perhaps we should add it to the list even though it's technically outside the present remit?

Quote: "@ Lee, Its an easy fix."


It would be good if that proves to be the case.
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SoftMotion3D
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Posted: 10th Feb 2012 15:52
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I think the installation for dbpro should get fixed for windows 7 compliant.... as in move the projects folders and working directories to the my docs folder so you dont need to change all the folder permissions and it would just work from installation.

the images locking is starting to bother me now as well....
If i set a camera to an image it locks the image number for access unless its being drawn on a 3d object. I was trying to stream a camera to a blue gui gadget but had to use the get image command to pull it off. would be nicer if the image was accessable by even make memblock from image.... then image another number.....but says its locked by system...

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JackDawson
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Posted: 12th Feb 2012 00:21
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@ SMD_3D, I totally agree with this. I run into this problem when I forget to run it in Admin mode and I just updated it with an extension / plugin, and it has to update the scripts and it gives me a billion windows as its trying to update the scripts. Its all about permissions. OF which you would not see this problem if the "saved" folders were in My Documents. And this includes any update scripts to be updated as well as their DLLs.

C:\Users\(USER NAME)\My Documents\DBP\

Something like that.

USER NAME = Whatever the user name is. You just have to grab the environment path for that.

"Life is like a box of chocolates.. eat it before it melts."
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Burning Feet Man
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Posted: 12th Feb 2012 06:29
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Change your editor to Indigo, as it lets you change various project directories, and even allows the user to set a library location which is relative to the project. (Which for example, means a project can be compiled on any computer, say if you were using DropBox as your .DBP & .DBA project directory, and this could change PC to PC)

I haven't gotten a permission error whilst coding via Indigo. To compliment this, you could also turn off the UAC...

Help build an online DarkBASIC Professional help archive.
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JackDawson
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Posted: 12th Feb 2012 15:30 Edited at: 12th Feb 2012 15:30
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Why do people constantly say to turn off the UAC. Its the ONE thing that has saved me over and over. No thanks.. I'll leave it on and just wait this out. The UAC is a good thing. Don't let anyone fool you into turning it off.

As for changing IDEs, I like the one that comes from TGC. But thanks for the suggestion.

"Life is like a box of chocolates.. eat it before it melts."
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MrValentine
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Posted: 12th Feb 2012 17:47 Edited at: 12th Feb 2012 17:48
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Jack... to be quite honest I am yet to have any issues with UAC turned off...

I have always been thinking of having a seperate launcher app... I dont see there being any issue with it... many companies have done that in the past... and I am not talking 2005 either... I mean allllllll the way back to the last 90's [ahhh miss the good old days when stuff just sorta worked out of the box...]

EDIT

I will look back at my posts on this thread as I can now record my issues as I have my baby back home

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Santman
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Posted: 12th Feb 2012 23:09 Edited at: 13th Feb 2012 02:05
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Sorry, figured it out, ignore this post.

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 13th Feb 2012 19:21 Edited at: 14th Feb 2012 12:20
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Lee's asked me to compose a list of Zip files for all the bugs posted on this thread. I've generally used the code provided by the original poster but have made minor changes in places either to clarify things or to shorten the code and in a few cases I've provided the code. If no code is provided it's because I can't reproduce the bug and no zip was provided.

I hope I've interpreted everyone's bugs correctly. Please let me know of any errors or omissions - and if no zip is available for your favourite bug please post one soon.

Do not post exe files or unnecessarily large projects - e.g. if you can demonstrate the bug using DBPro spheres then use those instead of your favourite 4Meg animated 3D monster with sound.

Most Annoying Bugs Posted So Far (as at 13 Feb 2012)
----------------------------------------------------

(Numbering continued from my previous two posts - the first few below are from Lee's list).

11. GAMEFX COMMANDS : U77 kills the Shadow/Color feature when Fog is applied [FIXED]

12. HTTP REQUEST DATA - reportedly works on "some" sites, but have not been able to get it to do so on all the ones I've tried. Looks like it is using HTTPS protocol.
Reported by mr_d
No zip!!

13. Music playing - seems pointless and doesn't let you know when the track is finished
Reported by Santman.
No zip!!

14. System dmem available() http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=177732&b=15
Reported by =Prof=
Zip provided.
Clear bug - DBPro crashes.

15. Duplicate label error not showing up and just running..... this creates some horrible errors that you may be looking for answers else where untill you realize oops! you accidently have 2 labels the same.
Reported by SMD_3D Interactive.
Zip provided by Green Gandalf.
Comment by Green Gandalf: Clear bug.

16. Screen invalid bug
Reported by SMD_3D Interactive
No zip!!
(Might be the bug discussed here: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=185459&b=15)

17. Limb new origin problem When you create a 3D model, and move the limbs, and set the new limb origins, when you load the models into DBPro the limb origins reset back to the centre.
Reported by Pincho Paxton.
No zip!!


18. Create light maps crashes DBP : http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=192240&b=1
Reported by TheComet.
New zip provided by Green Gandalf.
Comment: this is a clear bug introduced around U7.4/U7.5 and is probably the reason the Help file example crashes (see my bug report no. 9 in an earlier post).

19. Instanced objects animations stop updating if the original source object is off screen.
Reported by Matty H.
Zip provided.
Comment by Green Gandalf: this bug (or feature ) is certainly unhelpful. Interestingly, I tried using
clone object instead - and as far as I can tell the source object keeps animating when off-screen because
it is always in step with the cloned copy (unless you've actively changed one of their frames) when it
returns. This makes the behaviour of instanced objects even odder.

20. Fix object pivot collision problem If you comment the line with the fix object pivot command the collision box will be also rotated (same problem when you use set object collision to polygons) and collision will work. If you uncomment the line with the fix object pivot the object will get rotated but not the collision box.
Reported by 1beginner1.
Zip file provided by Green Gandalf.

21. Compiler slowdown
Reported by Santman.
No zip!!

22. Set alpha mapping on bug
Reported by Santman.
No zip!!

23. Turn camera angle problems
Reported by: Chris Tate.
Zip provided by Green Gandalf using Chris Tate's code.

24. Set shadow shading broken when shader flag used
Reported by Mistrel.
Zip provided by Green Gandalf.
Comment: the attached zip uses code originally posted by Spooky and used to work perfectly. However, the shader option no longer works. It seems to be broken somewhere between U7.4 and U7.7RC7.

Mistrel may be referring to additional problems on this thread:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=187876&b=15

25. Deleting cloned objects bug
Reported by Mistrel.
Zip added by Green Gandalf.
Comment by Green Gandalf: the symptoms of this bug seem to have changed - see zip file.

26. Create memblock from image bug
Reported by Mage and SMD_3D Interactive.
Zip provided.
Comment: the zip file shows the problem plus a messy workaround from me. Surely the workaround
shouldn't be necessary?

27. Texture backdrop problem with fog
Reported by Kezzla.
Zip provided.
Comment: looks like a clear inconsistency with fog handling between texture backdrop and color backdrop.
Edit: I've just realised that "texture backdrop" is obsolete according to the Help file so I doubt Lee will even look at this.

28. AddPCKToEXE compiler problem
Reported by CumQuat, =Prof= and many others.
Zip provided by Green Gandalf.
Comment: not really within the present remit but is a VERY annoying/baffling issue for many users.

To date I have 21 zipped bug reports with one probably duplicated and two others which may in fact be more than one bug, so we already have 20 bugs for Lee's "ace programmer".


Your bugs will probably be ignored if you do not post a simple demo project plus explanation.

[Edited a couple of silly typos. ]

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Santman
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Posted: 13th Feb 2012 20:29
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@Green Gandalf

Ok, here is a simple rar that I threw together that shows the music playing command. It shows two issues:

1) If the code is not syncing it's own loops (for example, using the set sync rate command) then the music ending ISN'T picked up on.
2) Even if you sync to get the end, simply playing the track again doesn't actually start it again unless you first stop the music playing to begin with (not a bug I know, but confusing for new people).

I never bother with the zip before because I found a post that said to do fastsync with the non screen update flag to get it, but this isn't documented anywhere. TBH, updating the documentation is probably sufficient.

If I get a chance, I'll strip my project down to show the alpha mapping, though for now I'm experimenting to ensure the models themselves aren;t at fault (though I can't see how if you read my post history).

The editor problem - well that'll be ignored anyway. I finally fixed it, with a tip from someone else. I had to restore to a previous backup, but first I had to open DBPro and close the project, then delete the project folder. Then close DBPro and open it again so it started a new project, then use the menu to open the backup and hey presto, it appears to be fine again. No idea why or how.

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 13th Feb 2012 21:55
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Thanks. That's a good example of what we need for a zipped demo.

I've just tried it. I'm not convinced you've correctly interpreted what your code is doing.

What's happening in the second loop in your demo is that without the "stop music" command the loop has to be executed once before things get updated by the sync command. So, as soon as the appropriate updating has taken place DBPro knows the music has stopped and then waits for you to restart it. This code demonstrates what I mean (look at the second counter):



Quote: "Even if you sync to get the end, simply playing the track again doesn't actually start it again unless you first stop the music playing to begin with (not a bug I know, but confusing for new people)."


Not quite true. It will if you get your logic right. Your code needs to detect whether or not it's the first time through the second loop. Try this:



Quote: "TBH, updating the documentation is probably sufficient."


I agree. This is an example where the Help file is quite deficient. I'll add this when I update my previous post (I'll wait a bit in case anyone else wants to add/change anything).
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Santman
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Posted: 13th Feb 2012 22:50
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@Green Gandalf

Hmmmm....there may be something more serious under the hood with this issue then; I copied both your code examples from above into my DBPro and neither of them resulted in the first loop detecting the music ending (which it wouldn't - perhaps this needs included into whatever system controlled sync operation is performed by auto sync?), but also neither version played any music at all the second loop around either. I did however notice an anomally - on the second code listing, if you press space BEFORE loop one of the sound is done, then when it ends the screen says "music stopped etc etc" and the count2 value of 4128 (logical as the sound is a 4 second clip). However if you wait for the first loop to finish then you do not get that text. And neither plays any music the second loop with the stop music command ommited.

So - documentation is def poor for this one. And, it would appear that - for my setup at least - the track will not play again regardless unless you manually stop it. For the record, I have a clean install, upgrade 6.5 (from the homepage) and no unofficial plug ins.

If you change:

In the second loop to something like

Then this shows that the second couter is incrementing, thus the code loop is cycling and the sync IS updating....but still no music for me.
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 13th Feb 2012 23:04
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Quote: "Hmmmm....there may be something more serious under the hood with this issue then"


I doubt it. I might have made an error myself. I'll double check later.

Quote: "upgrade 6.5"


That's very old now. We're using U7.7RC7 on this thread.

I'll check my snippets again on my other machine as well. The second one worked fine on the PC - or so I thought .
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Santman
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Posted: 13th Feb 2012 23:08
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Ah - I meant 7.5, the one from the homepage (not the beta). Lol. I never use the beta update yet as it kills the shadow shader (and I'm really not skilled enough to get evolved's working!!!).

I also just tried the alpha blending issue with new models, and it appears to have gone, so for whatever random and intermitent reason, I'll blame the models. They were flat plane objects done in AC3D, however I subdived them and this prevented, amoungst other things, texturing working also - so I guess it messed the models up somehow.

Anyhoo....you can (hopefuly) withdraw the alpha blending issue now.
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 13th Feb 2012 23:59
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OK, will do.
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 14th Feb 2012 00:26
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Santman

Just checked my snippets and your code with U75.

Your problem is that you're using an old update. The difficulties you mention have been solved with U77RC7. That is, after all, the point of this thread. From Lee's first post:

Quote: "I invite you to list your top three DBP bugs in this thread (from U77 release candidate)"


There's no point resurrecting old fixed bugs.
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Santman
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Posted: 14th Feb 2012 00:55
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Gandalf,

In that case you can accept my apologies, but as I said I took the latest beta off as soon as I fired it up and the shadow shader stopped working - in the modern age no type of game (3d at least) can look decent without good shadows.

Still....at least at SOME POINT it was a bug!! Lol.
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 14th Feb 2012 12:14
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Quote: "but as I said I took the latest beta off as soon as I fired it up and the shadow shader stopped working"


Yes, I hope that gets fixed this time around. It's a very annoying bug.

Quote: "Still....at least at SOME POINT it was a bug!!"


It certainly was.
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tiresius
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Posted: 15th Feb 2012 05:10 Edited at: 15th Feb 2012 05:11
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Green Gandalf, you have more than earned your trumpet and banner. Very nice, and much thanks to you for helping grease the wheels on the effort!


A 3D marble platformer using Newton physics.
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 15th Feb 2012 15:07
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Thank you.
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Mage
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Posted: 18th Feb 2012 03:44 Edited at: 18th Feb 2012 03:45
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They are not asking for feature requests at this time.

If they do someone please ask them to add Error Trapping.
Hands down has to be the most important thing they could add.

I will probably miss the post if they start asking for requests.


Even something simple that can prevent full application failure.

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MrValentine
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Posted: 18th Feb 2012 05:49
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Mage... you mean like the one STYX has?

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Saleh Yassin
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Posted: 19th Feb 2012 23:06
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Lost Device should be fixed. Then the engine will be perfect.
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James H
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Posted: 26th Feb 2012 00:18 Edited at: 26th Feb 2012 01:14
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This is in relation to this report http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=152591&b=15

I have carried these tests out under clean vista and win7 installations(sp1) with latest hardware drivers and latest direct x along with windows updates
All the cards Ive had access to are nvidia cards - 8800gt, 8800gtx, 9600gt
****The test are carried out while having the "override any application" setting for anti alias with 4x samples set****

In the report linked above the dbp upgrades mentioned did not require any additional control of the vsync command(ie I didnt have to use the flag option for vsync) to be set except for U7.5
Having carried out the tests under U7.5 I have then installed U7.7RC7 and tested them again

test 1 - no issues(vsync on)


test2 - black screen(vsync off)


test 3 - no issues(vsync off - dbp controlled 4x samples)


test 4 - black screen(vsync off - dbp controlled 0x samples)


I feel the tests show the issue clearly while in fullscreen mode, windowed mode is not affected by the above tests
EDIT PLEASE DISREGARD THE POST PROCESS RESULTS AND TAKE A LOOK AT THE SECOND POST I MADE IMMEDIATLY AFTER THIS POST - have not deleted the false results so noone thinks they have been imagining what I typed if they happened to bbe reading/looking into this while I was editing.
However in my projects folder there is a snippets folder - this is not the darksource snippets folder as I have not installed it - one snippet/project "PostProcessCommands" - this runs in window mode, when adding "set display mode 1024,768,32,0" as the first command in that project the application crashes rather than getting a black screen or even an error message from dbp I get "Post Process Shaders has stopped working - A problem caused the program to stop working correctly. Windows will close the program and notify you if a solution available" - same results when I switch the vsync flag to "1" - same result if I dont add the flag at all!!
If I add "set display mode 1024,768,32,0,4,0" instead I get the "Tried to read a surface that has no read permissions!" message
If I add "set display mode 1024,768,32,0,0,0" the application crashes again with same message from windows ie Post Process Shaders has stopped working etc

Maybe there is something wrong with the way I have put the code together or the test itself? I dont think so but thats something that has cropped up in the past when I emailed lee years ago about multiple camera views and sync masking, in which case I apologise for wasting anyones time, however the more I look at this the more Im convinced its a bug, hardware specific or not
I hope others will test my findings, as the report I posted some years ago now got very little attention from the community(perhaps because I ramble on so much!!) and I would really, really like to get this resolved as I do not wish to add a readme document telling end users to ensure they dont overide AA settings at 4x if they get nothing but a black screen when they run the software

Many thanks for your time

James
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James H
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Posted: 26th Feb 2012 01:09
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Apologies for the double post - please disregard the results on the post proccess shaders, I forgot to set the AA settings
As I forgot to use Reload display pointer command after setting the display mode the results always came back as a fail..

Having done the test correctly this time;

does not fail

this fails - "Tried to read a surface that has no read permissions!" change the sample value to anything >0 and the same message is thrown back

@GG hope I have done this correctly, apologies once again for over complicating the issue :/
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 26th Feb 2012 13:02
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I've just done a quick test of your 4 snippets on my machine (nVidia GTX285) and get the same symptoms as you: i.e. no problems when the control panel setting is 8x but the two black screens when I change to the 4x setting.

Do you know whether this is confined to nVidia GFX cards?
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James H
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Posted: 26th Feb 2012 22:43
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I never got to testing with the ati card I had(older generation card), I had a living situation issue at the time I posted the bug report which is why I never got to do so, I no longer have that card or know anyone who has one so I had hoped others would be able to test it here, then I forgot I even made that report until I saw a post here on the dbp board which reminded me as Ive been reading up on everything Ive missed out on while I wasnt able to code, so no idea if its nvidia specific or not Im afraid
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SoftMotion3D
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Posted: 27th Feb 2012 00:54 Edited at: 27th Feb 2012 01:19
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Quote: "6. Screen invalid bug
Reported by SMD_3D Interactive
[No zip!!]
(Might be the bug discussed here: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=185459&b=15)"


No thats not it... Im much over the matrix being unrecoverable.....

An example would be my music application actualy.
I can ctrl+alt+del that thing to hell on xp and vista and it will not crash but will crash everytime on windows 7. Its always the dbpcameradebug dll that says it hangs on.

I'll see if i can put an example together to send ya lee.

edit:

Actualy dont worry about this one... I suspect its just that mabey there is some misconception on how the command is used and how it doesnt catch everything.

There should be a better way to detect the problem. but i do need to know this info....

Does it only crash when a sync command is called? Or do i need to test every chunk of code proir to make sure it exists at all times?

eg..

Do i always need to test media like this

if object exist(x)=1 then position object x,x1,y1,z1
if texture exist(x)=1 and object exist(blah)=1 then texture object blah,x


Is it nessesary to code like this is what i need to know... Cause if it is shouldnt dbp just do the testing for us? and do nothing if it doesnt exist?

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 27th Feb 2012 19:11
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Quote: "so no idea if its nvidia specific or not Im afraid"


Just checked my old laptop (ATI card) and I can't reproduce the problem. Not sure what to make of this one. I'll pass it on anyway in case Lee has some idea. Of course it could be an nVidia problem.
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James H
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Posted: 27th Feb 2012 19:56
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ok thanks, much appreciated
I have googled the issue and AA does throw up a lot of issues with lots of software but havent found anything similar to the specifics this issue appears bound by, hopefully the genious that is Lee will have a better idea about this
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2012 11:58
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I've looked at your other problem - the reload display pointer issue - but can't reproduce your symptoms. Do your snippets rely on particular GFX card or DBPro project settings?

I'll be passing the AA one to Lee today. It looks suspiciously like an nVidia problem to me though.
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James H
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2012 16:45
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Quote: "Do your snippets rely on particular GFX card or DBPro project settings?"

It occured on the 8800gt, 8800gtx and 9600gt
The DBPro settings were always windowed mode 640,480,32 as fullscreen mode always alters my desktop icon positions when I use set display mode command on a lower resolution than the desktop when a DBP program crashes. I use 1024,768 as I think thats probably the lowest resolution a game in DBP should support.
Strangely, I can no longer reproduce the same results anymore. I installed indigo ide and am now having issues with project files and compiling; I have changed file associations twice - once to use the editornew exe that is the synergy editor for dbp instead of the standard ide, then changed them again to use indigo. When i compile projects shipped with dbp no issues with indigo but synergy and orig ide cant add pck to exe and no exe is created, when I compile saved projects from past indigo cant load dba even though it show in ide, once resaved and compiled in indigo they work fine but instead of getting the "Tried to read a surface that has no read permissions!" I get the black screen in fullscreen mode but runs fine in window mode. Already too many factors in play and I havent got the time right now to start fresh testbeds as Im moving house between now and monday. Think its best to just present lee with snippets that do reproduce the issue, when I get more time I will have another go at it but it could be a short while before I can do that as my net connection may take time to get changed over to new place. And yeah, does look suspicous, hope it can be resolved though, not sure however how acceptable people would find not being able to use 4x with nvid cards being a significant issue.
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Pincho Paxton
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2012 19:39
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My limb problem seems to be related to my modelling package. I didn't think it was due to somebody writing a dll to fix limb positions. Now I'm not sure what the dll does fix.

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 4th Mar 2012 00:26
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@James H

OK. Sounds like the bugs are the least of your worries at the moment. I'll send the 4xAA thing to Lee to see what he says. At least that bug does seem consistently reproducible.
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SamKM
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Posted: 6th Mar 2012 11:48
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I think one thing it would be good to work on, if it's possible to fix them, are the 'perform csg' commands, since they can only be used with boxes at the moment, and are even then rather glitchy.
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 6th Mar 2012 20:52
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Could you be more specific? Code plus zip file, etc?

None of us have the time to guess what's in your mind.
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SamKM
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Posted: 6th Mar 2012 23:48
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Well, I'm not really talking about one specific example of code.
I'll think up one example now. Say you want to create a sphere with a large semi-circular hole in one side. You think you'll do this by performing a csg operation on two spheres, the larger one being the one you want to keep. You would type code similar to this:

make object sphere 1, 100
make object sphere 2, 75
position object 2, 40, 0, 0
perform csg intersection 1, 2
do
control camera using arrowkeys 0, 0.1, 0.1
loop

In this particular example (which I tested in DBPro after thinking up), the brush object simply vanishes, leaving the target object unchanged. On other tests I've done in other projects (long lost I'm afraid, so I can't give you the code), I've got even stranger results, such as odd spikes of leftover primitive hanging where the two used to be. CSG operations (Unions, Intersections, Differences) very rarely obtain reliable results when used on anything other than cubes. As well as finding this out for myself, I have also read it in Hands on DBPro Volume 2. Maybe CSG format can't hold anything but cubes, but if they can, I think it would be a useful bug fix to expand the possibilities of the statements a little.
I hope this has made my meaning clearer.
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Brendy boy
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Posted: 7th Mar 2012 00:12
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CSG commads were made for use in FPSC editor for carving holes in walls where doors should go. In dbpro source code is a comment by Lee which says that sphere object uses different triangle structure than other objects and because of that is ignored when used as a brush with csg commands. If you want to use a sphere you'll have to make it in a modelling program and import it in dbpro. The same thing applys to cylinder.

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 7th Mar 2012 12:09 Edited at: 7th Mar 2012 12:21
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I wonder what the key difference is?

Actually I've never been able to get the CSG commands to work in any consistent way. However that may be because I didn't really understand what they were supposed to be doing so it was hard to tell whether the commands were working or not. Also, the Help file examples were so long and complicated it was difficult to see what the crucial steps were.

I'm sure they are useful but they've defeated my occasional efforts to do simple things with them.

Is there a simple tutorial somewhere?

Edit Strange how the passage of time can make things clearer. This works much as I might expect. Perhaps I need to get some more practice.

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Brendy boy
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Posted: 7th Mar 2012 20:49
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Quote: "I wonder what the key difference is?"

CSG commands work on objects that are made of vertices only or triangle lists. Cylinder is made of triangle strip and sphere probably too

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 8th Mar 2012 01:44
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Hmm? Not immediately obvious why such differences should matter.

Something for me to look into.
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Brendy boy
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Posted: 8th Mar 2012 03:24
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Quote: "Hmm? Not immediately obvious why such differences should matter."

Well, it doesn't. All that csg functions need is a list of object triangles. The one who wrote csg functions (Lee, I suppose) was to lazy to wrote a few lines of code which would produce triangle list out of triangle strips/fans (what sphere and cylinder are made of). But the same individual did write that same piece of code for object picking functions. That's why picking works on cylinders/spheres

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 8th Mar 2012 12:26 Edited at: 8th Mar 2012 12:34
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Interesting. I wonder if they work with my own spheres (which are essentially the same as DBPro spheres but without the redundant vertices and polys). Will check.

Edit Well, what a surprise. They do work with my spheres. Weird.

Here's my sample code using a low poly sphere:



DBO file attached.

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Brendy boy
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Posted: 8th Mar 2012 19:14
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Quote: "Weird."

Why? You created a sphere in external program and imported it or did you constructed it manualy in dbpro? In both cases sphere would be made of triangle list or vertices only. Unless you made it out of triangle strips? (in that case it shouldn't work)

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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 8th Mar 2012 19:22
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"Weird" for the simple reason that one would expect DBPro spheres to be constructed in a way that is consistent with other DBPro commands. Mine, on the other hand, constructed using DBPro commands, works fine even though it wasn't designed with that purpose in mind.

Simple really.

Definitely "weird" or, more appropriately perhaps, "inexcusable".
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Brendy boy
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Posted: 8th Mar 2012 19:50
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Quote: " that one would expect DBPro spheres to be constructed in a way that is consistent with other DBPro commands."

Well, i think that dbpro primitives are made just for use as placeholders or dummies. Constructing them using triangle strips makes them faster to render. They shouldn't be used for anything else, especialy not for modeling such as csg. Of course, if Lee made a function for creating a triangle list out of an object and then use that whenever triangle list is needed we wouldn't have that problems. That's just an inconsistency in Lee's coding. At one place he does convert the object to triangle list, at the other he just decides to do nothing if object isn't made out of triangle lists.

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Santman
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Posted: 8th Mar 2012 19:56
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No offence guys, but DBPro is a BASIC language, and Lee is (probably - stay calm) ten times the programmer that any of us, yourselves included, are. Perhaps, if you want to go into that much depth, it could be suggested that you try c++?

It's too easy to forget that DBPro is actually an incredibly accomplished piece of software, even YEARS after it was made and we can see several commercial examples of success made with it (though the basic engine is now a bit sad now - things like Dark Occlusion should be a part of it, not an add on in my opinion).

Just a personal thought.
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Brendy boy
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Posted: 8th Mar 2012 20:08
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Quote: "No offence guys, but DBPro is a BASIC language, and Lee is (probably - stay calm) ten times the programmer that any of us, yourselves included, are. Perhaps, if you want to go into that much depth, it could be suggested that you try c++?"

LOL, we are aware of that. I moved to C++ 2 years ago. The problem is that lots of dbpro functionality is only partialy implemented and there are also a lot of functionality that is buggy or doesn't work at all or is just redundant. I think that all of the non working and redundant code should me removed from dbpro. If there's less code there's less chance od another bug. Only fully working functions should be left. Making the code base smaller makes it easier to find bugs and update.

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