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AppGameKit Classic Chat / AGK V2 Kickstarter

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FoX_MoLdY
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Posted: 28th Jun 2013 23:25
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I must say that I am quite annoyed at the idea that the product I just purchased about two months ago, and believed would continue to be supported going forward, now plans to leave its "early adopters" in the dust after the next version. To think that if I had merely waited a couple of months, I could have spent less money to gain access to such features as 3D animation and continuing updates, which were originally planned for the product that I did end up buying!

Please let me know if this is not correct, and existing AppGameKit users will have access to V2. I am, in fact, interested in the features that are now planned for it.
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XanthorXIII
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Posted: 29th Jun 2013 00:40
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Fox,
I'd like to put this in a perspective that may help. TGC is a small company and has limited funding. Say I buy AppGameKit at $59 along with 299 other people. That's only $17,700. For salaries that isn't a whole lot especially in this day and age. Granted TGC has other revenue streams it really goes to supporting Lee, Paul, baxslash etc...
They've probably invested a lot of their own money into seeing this done but at some point if a new version comes out it may come down to if funding is there or not to do it. If I come out with a game that is successful, I would like to see the guys behind building this great product be successful too. It needs to be a Win-Win for everyone or we don't get these products and no one will spend anytime developing something like this again.
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 29th Jun 2013 00:42
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FoX_MoLdY:
There is going to be an upgrade option for existing AppGameKit users. v2 will have a full price of $149 and I would guess that you can upgrade sometime before it goes out of beta. New versions of software comes out all the time. I bought AppGameKit at $100 so you got it at a much lower price already. If I were you I would get a £25 spot before it's gone, only 30 left.

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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 29th Jun 2013 00:50
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One thing I would really like to see added to stretch goal 2 is some sort of library selection. Preferably automatic. That is, commands that you don't use doesn't have to be included. DBP does this.

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Juande
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Posted: 29th Jun 2013 02:24 Edited at: 29th Jun 2013 02:25
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FoX_MoLdY:

You can use AppGameKit V1, it's not necessary to buy the new upgrade for AGK. I think that AppGameKit 1 is perfect (although AppGameKit 2 will be better). It's like if you bought windows 7 and two month later... it's available windows 8. It's your choice to buy it.

On the other hand... AppGameKit is a cheap engine and it's free royalty (for example Unity Pro are 1500$ + 1500$ by platform https://store.unity3d.com/)... £25 is not much (the new AppGameKit will be $149 and it will be powerfull)
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Ancient Lady
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Posted: 29th Jun 2013 02:46
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I bought into AppGameKit pretty much as soon as it came out because it really excited me. And I paid the premium price without being upset by it (ok, I am a "kept" woman by my wonderful hubby and have great options therefrom). But it is a great tool and I absolutely love working with it. I do not begrudge people getting it at a lower price later.

I am doing what I can to promote in Facebook (the only forum of its type that I am in, to keep in contact with nephews).

Should I hit the lottery tonight, I will make the maximum pledge (in addition to my current on).

This tool is worth it.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
AGK Community Tester and AppGameKit Master
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FoX_MoLdY
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Posted: 29th Jun 2013 02:56
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I guess since I'm coming into this after previously using DBC and DBPro, I'm used to slightly longer life cycles for TGC's products. However, since I am still excited for the new features promised by this new version (e.g. Ouya support, enhanced 2D/3D capabilities), and I do like AppGameKit so far, I have decided to pledge. Hopefully, V3 is a few years away at least.
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Auger
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Posted: 29th Jun 2013 03:17 Edited at: 29th Jun 2013 03:17
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Just grabbed a Silver pledge..... lets keep it rolling over 12k now.


Auger
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Lost Dragon
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Posted: 29th Jun 2013 07:35 Edited at: 29th Jun 2013 07:36
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@swissolo

Quote: "What exactly is the £3 extra charge for shipping if this is a virtual product(bronze level and above it seems)"


I asked that question earlier and it's a mistake.

Here's what they said when I asked about it:

@ Lost Dragon - This was a over sight on our part. You can avoid this charge by saying you want delivery to the UK. We would change it if we could but the project is live and we cannot edit this now.

As for the rest, A4 is a European size of paper. A crib sheet would presumably have commonly used (all?) commands, etc. on it - a cheat sheet basically.
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Alien Menace
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Posted: 29th Jun 2013 08:39 Edited at: 29th Jun 2013 09:11
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I backed this early on, more so because I have a lot of respect for Paul. He has really kicked some butt lately.

Wow, glad to see we are within reach of Dynamic Lists... I just hope it is implemented like GLBasic and not like DBPRO. I am surprised to see that file/media encryption has not been added to any of the stretch goals though. Maybe they can use the extra £3 we had to pay for "shipping" and add that in.

Hopefully everything they promise actually gets delivered. I am cautiously optimistic.

Apps published: 3
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baxslash
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Posted: 29th Jun 2013 11:27
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Well at this rate I can see most of the stretch goals being met. I am personally hoping for Bullet physics... I'm really pleased with some of the goals already met, Spine and a full tween library should make 2D animated games start to look really impressive in AGK. I can finally drop my own system and use a professional tool I already paid for I backed Spine and Spriter so I didn't mind which won the race into AppGameKit first.


this.mess = abs(sin(times#))
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 29th Jun 2013 14:46
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For me personally I am hoping we make at least £15,000. But it would be good for the future of AppGameKit to have all 3D stuff as well. My guess is that AppGameKit will get all these features eventually, regardless of money backed. However, they would have to release v2 and sell it at full price to gain the additional funds. Which probably takes longer. It's also good for PR to get as much as possible through KS.

I agree with Alien Menace. Media encryption should have been in the KS. I have no idea how much work that would require but I think the demand for it is only going to increase.

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Tone Dialer
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Posted: 29th Jun 2013 18:47
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@Rick,

I already have AppGameKit 108beta14 and am having fun writing loads of code examples to help get it out of beta.
I would be happy with a new pledge set at £45 which would include a copy of AppGameKit 108 (V1) made available to backers on August 9th, you could call it 'AGK Starter Backer', it might well tempt some of the £25, £30 and £35 backers who do not currently have V1 to move up a tier or two.
All the upper tiers should also include V1, Academic Backers could make good use of V1 in schools from September.

Good luck to all the TGC team.

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DazzyF
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Posted: 29th Jun 2013 18:58
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Wasn't me that backed with 1000 , I could only afford the £25 one.

http://www.yorkshirereflections.com
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xCept
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Posted: 29th Jun 2013 19:37
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One improvement that I would very much like to see "thrown into" V2 would be full Box2D support. As it stands, many capabilities of the official Box2D cannot be achieved in AppGameKit as it simply doesn't support the full Box2D command set and parameters. This subject has come up in the past and would definitely add to the potential of AGK.
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Grook
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Posted: 29th Jun 2013 19:50
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Quote: "One improvement that I would very much like to see "thrown into" V2 would be full Box2D support. As it stands, many capabilities of the official Box2D cannot be achieved in AppGameKit as it simply doesn't support the full Box2D command set and parameters. This subject has come up in the past and would definitely add to the potential of AGK."


This...

"Happiness is contrary to the human condition" --White (to Black)
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 29th Jun 2013 23:08
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Well, I think we can easily say that stretch goal 2 will be reached within the remaining 40 days. Question now is if we can get to one or both of the 3D goals. Will the momentum hold and how big will the final push be?

Still no mention of AppGameKit from my Ouya news sources.

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swissolo
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Posted: 29th Jun 2013 23:30 Edited at: 29th Jun 2013 23:41
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@Lost Dragon
I saw that message, but I don't live in the UK, do you think I can do that anyways? (assuming there is nothing to ship)

Quote: "As for the rest, A4 is a European size of paper. A crib sheet would presumably have commonly used (all?) commands, etc. on it - a cheat sheet basically. "

This is what I assumed, but there's no way all the commands could fit on one sheet (unless it's some really tiny font) Plus if we already have a virtual copy, isn't F1 + ctrl-f faster anyways?

Edit:
@TGC
Would it be possible to purchase AppGameKit T-Shirts separately? I'd certainly wear one and it would be great if it helped the team, but I really can't afford the gold backer status.

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Caps On!
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Posted: 30th Jun 2013 02:02
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I just pledged!

Truth, Justice, and the Programmer's Way!
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Lost Dragon
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Posted: 30th Jun 2013 02:55
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Quote: "@Lost Dragon
I saw that message, but I don't live in the UK, do you think I can do that anyways? (assuming there is nothing to ship)"


That I don't know. Maybe one of the official people will step in and say.
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 30th Jun 2013 10:33
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The question of £3 for shipping was handled on Facebook. I don't know why TGC hasn't posted about it here on the forum. But it's also in the Kickstarter FAQ (all the way at the bottom for those not familiar to KS). Basically they messed up creating the tiers and accidentally included the £3 posting on all digital rewards. You do not have to pay this. If you have pledged £28 then you can alter your pledge to £25, just select UK shipping at the bottom.

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LittlePIC
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Posted: 30th Jun 2013 11:09
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I'm now Pledged for the 'STANDARD BACKER DEAL'

I remember (or believed) reading something about free upgrades / updates when I first brought AGK. I didn't have a use at the time for AppGameKit but thought the idea was great so purchased. Now finding a use currently am learning about the kickstarter request going on. That's my reason for only a 'basic' support but do wish the TGC team the best in there quest for helping the rest of us 'backyard gamers' continue to enjoy what we love. Hope everyone else jumps onboard to make AppGameKit the new benchmark in App development
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MarcoBruti
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Posted: 30th Jun 2013 13:51
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I removed the "shipping to UK" because there is nothing material to ship.
Moreover I added a comment of mine to KS
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tgc/app-game-kit-v2/comments
including a link to Google Play where visitors can see all my apps, see the pictures and the movies.
There are also free versions, so they can download living code and sample.
Hope it helps.
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=PRoF=
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Posted: 30th Jun 2013 14:36
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I'm fairly sure I got AppGameKit v1 for my birthday present from my lovely other half (Even tho I had to wait several months afterwards to actually receive it)

Now my birthday rolls around again (It's on Thursday the 4th), I just asked the Mrs if I can have a "Bronze Backer" and she said yes

I'll make the payment on Thursday when I'm old(er)

(And get to wait again for it to be finished lol)


Bitmap Font Creator Alpha Out Now!
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bjadams
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Posted: 30th Jun 2013 23:25
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i'm very curious to see how many milestones AppGameKit can make!
i never thought there were so many fans!

Please TGC, do things the right way up this time, and don't do the same errors with Darkgdk in the past and abandon the project...
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Rick the Programmer
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Posted: 1st Jul 2013 00:14 Edited at: 1st Jul 2013 00:18
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Pledged a few days ago and have been sharing news of the Kickstarter around FB and a few other sites. I definitely want to see the 3D support make it in, but obviously want to see as much as possible be developed to expand the scope of the language.

The devs should keep heart and truck forward on their projects. Their work is important as their products help bring coding to a more manageable complexity level for the masses.

Ask not for whom the bell tolls;
It tolls for ye!
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BiggAdd
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Posted: 1st Jul 2013 01:40
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Pledged a few days back, forgot to post in the thread!
Looks good, hopefully you make your stretch goals.

Although I was wondering, how hard would it be for you guys to make the OpenGL bindings available through AppGameKit? So for anyone who wants to dabble with just the GL code they can do so? (I'm assuming it might unlock more potential in the community).

You could create a GL wrapper that deals with GLES or OpenGL depending on what system it is running on.

Might be an idea for a stretch goal?

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JimHawkins
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Posted: 1st Jul 2013 10:43
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Quote: " I was wondering, how hard would it be for you guys to make the OpenGL bindings available through AppGameKit?"


I mentioned this in another thread. I would like to see quite a few things opened up for T2/3 programmers. For example, pointers to the audio buffer for a loaded sound (plus a definition of the buffer format) would enable many nice things to be done with in-place data - pitch change, mix-down etc.

There's no need to expose these things in the Basic interface, where they wouldn't be much use anyway.

-- Jim DO IT FASTER, EASIER AND BETTER WITH AppGameKit FOR PASCAL
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MikeMax
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Posted: 1st Jul 2013 12:35
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Quote: "I mentioned this in another thread. I would like to see quite a few things opened up for T2/3 programmers. For example, pointers to the audio buffer for a loaded sound (plus a definition of the buffer format) would enable many nice things to be done with in-place data - pitch change, mix-down etc.

There's no need to expose these things in the Basic interface, where they wouldn't be much use anyway."


+1
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MarcoBruti
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Posted: 1st Jul 2013 12:42
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Quote: "There's no need to expose these things in the Basic interface, where they wouldn't be much use anyway."

I think that it could also be useful for T1 users, in conjunction with memblock commands.
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JimHawkins
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Posted: 1st Jul 2013 13:15
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Marco - pointers cannot be used in T1. There's already a GetMemblockPtr() call for T2/3

-- Jim DO IT FASTER, EASIER AND BETTER WITH AppGameKit FOR PASCAL
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MarcoBruti
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Posted: 1st Jul 2013 15:50
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Jim, you are not completely right in y opinion. There are similar commands in Dark Basic Pro. I have used them to manage arrays and vector using direct memory access with pointers derived from memblocks. Notice that the below is working code in at least 2 games of mine.
Since AppGameKit Basic is a direct derivation of Dark Basic, I would like to have something similar for AGK. Of course management of such things is more natural and suitable for object oriented languages as C++ and Pascal, as, I have shown you, this stuff is feasible. I do not know if it can be directly applied to sound buffer, but I think yes. If not, or there are no resources to accomplish that, never mind...

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Ancient Lady
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Posted: 1st Jul 2013 16:13
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MarcoBruti, I am assuming your code snippet is meant to be pseudo code.

There are no pointers in AppGameKit Basic. In C/C++, a char* or int* or float* variable allows access to dynamically created arrays of type char, int and float, respectively. There is nothing equivalent in AppGameKit Basic. And there are no memory fill commands either.

You can create a MemBlock and set/get values in it.

You are correct in that you can use it for various things, but it requires commands to do all the processes.

At the moment there aren't even commands that let you set more than one int/float at a time in the MemBlock.

Commands might be added that let the MemBlocks be used with sounds, as they are with images now.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
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baxslash
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Posted: 1st Jul 2013 16:16
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AL, Marco's code is DarkBasic Pro code. Pointers are often used in DBPro code. In fact IanM's Matrix Utility plugin gave access to all sorts of useful pointers and methods of manipulating memblocks to do this kind of thing.


this.mess = abs(sin(times#))
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Ancient Lady
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Posted: 1st Jul 2013 16:18
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baxslash, thank you for clarifying. I haven't worked with DarkBase Pro for a while and forgot some of its capabilities.

MarcoBruti, I sort of stand corrected. But that functionality is not in AppGameKit Basic.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
AGK Community Tester and AppGameKit Master
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Markus
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Posted: 1st Jul 2013 16:55
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at goal 2 (£15000) i will double my pledge to speed up reaching the next targets because they are important for me
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XanthorXIII
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Posted: 1st Jul 2013 17:47
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I'm not sure its really that important to have commands like that at the moment. As this being Tier 2 we can switch the audio library to something else if need be. Granted that may end up costing money to do that, its still an option. Now if TGC would like to do something like that for us and provide something like that for us, awesome. I would like to see an improvement in the audio library that it uses and maybe with that we would see commands like what you are mentioning but without having to do it through memblocks.

Trade off, better audio engine that affects both T1 and T2 which gives us better capabilities.
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bjadams
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Posted: 1st Jul 2013 17:54
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if you plan on releasing a free app you can always use Fmod for sound if you are on T2
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MarcoBruti
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Posted: 1st Jul 2013 18:29
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Quote: "But that functionality is not in AppGameKit Basic."

@AL, what you are saying is obvious. Otherwise I would have not asked for it Anyway, if it is not possible to get it, no problem. I know that you, Jim and others are focused on Tier-2. This is OK from your point of view, it is not OK from the point of view of commercial success of AppGameKit, or at least I think so.
Without a good scripting language, I am sorry to say that AppGameKit will not have a long life. Many successful SDKs have a good scripting language, based on LUA, BASIC or other languages.
Pointers are not vital, of course, but generally some object oriented capabilities and support of reference would be very nice. Of course, if there will be money enough...
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JimHawkins
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Marco - I was not wrong. Unless AppGameKit Basic is redesigned to compile to native code (like DBPro) it cannot use pointers and objects in that way.

I have many times (and been ignored) argued that T1 needs a Lua interface.

I totally disagree, I'm afraid, that only T1 will bring success to AGK. What's needed is the flexibility to get great power out of T2/3 and a visual designer for T1.

-- Jim DO IT FASTER, EASIER AND BETTER WITH AppGameKit FOR PASCAL
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BatVink
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Quote: "What's needed is...a visual designer for T1"


What do you have in mind? We have the placement editor that ships with AGK. They talked about releasing the source at one point, maybe that's still a possibility.

ten-net consulting limited
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Ancient Lady
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Posted: 1st Jul 2013 20:42
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MarcoBruti, I misunderstood your post.

But JimHawkins seems to think that the Dark Basic Pro pointers would not translate to AppGameKit Basic (because of the cross platform thing).

Although, having looked at the interpreter code, I can almost see how pointers might be usable. But it wouldn't be easy coding by an stretch of the imagination to add that to the current interpreter.

Cheers,
Ancient Lady
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Red5
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Posted: 1st Jul 2013 21:21
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Evening all,

I pledged at Bronze Industry level

I've followed AppGameKit since its very first announcement and purchased on day one; although due to time constraints I've not had any quality time to do much with it yet but I am keen to see AppGameKit succeed and grow into a standard for multi-platform App development.

Also, TGC started in the same year as I started my business and so I have a kind of silent affinity with them and know how much of a struggle it is to be a successful small software vendor; hence I was happy to back at this level.

AGK sort of takes me back to the days of being a bedroom coder as a teenager in the days of the ZX Spectrum and C64 which is one of the reasons I love it.

One day I'm hoping my schedule allows some fun time with AppGameKit

Cheers,

Red.
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XanthorXIII
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Posted: 1st Jul 2013 21:48 Edited at: 1st Jul 2013 21:50
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Only 1K to go to his Stretch Goal #2. Pretty much. Can't see what PayPal is at.
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MikeMax
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Posted: 1st Jul 2013 22:05
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Just changing my pledge from 100 to 250. (No no i know that it's not a cash game :p Money is in my pocket, waiting for the end Date


(i don't need 30 AppGameKit PC License ... but ... maybe another product ? lol)

Trusting in TGC and AppGameKit ! Yeah !
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JimHawkins
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Posted: 1st Jul 2013 22:11
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AL - yes, I agree. My thinking was that the Basic doesn't currently allow things that are possible in C++, Pascal or whatever, because it simply isn't designed to do that. If it evolved into a native code compiler, then it possibly could. But I don't see that on the road-map.

What AppGameKit does very well is wrapping OGL into some controllable calls. My case is that by exposing a few more parts of the engine we could have something very powerful. But this should not be, IMHO, waiting for the Basic to be able to do it.

-- Jim DO IT FASTER, EASIER AND BETTER WITH AppGameKit FOR PASCAL
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xCept
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Posted: 1st Jul 2013 22:53 Edited at: 1st Jul 2013 22:55
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I've upped my pledge to Gold. Not counting any PayPal funds we need just £800 more to reach the next stretch goal. Then £5000 more to get to the all important 3D one
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unlikely
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Posted: 1st Jul 2013 22:59
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Backed!

I'm glad the stretch goals are as they are. It's good to see TGC focusing on making AppGameKit one of the best 2D dev solutions around before approaching 3D. There are already several similar 3D solutions to compete with... but not many 2D solutions that offer the features envisioned in V2 with the same approach to development as AppGameKit has.

(Not so say 3D wouldn't be welcomed at some point.)
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ThrOtherJoJo
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I have just Backed AppGameKit V2.

You know, I am really excited about the future of AGK. I am so glad I picked this product over some of the competitors.

I had an idea and in just a month or so, it's now a reality.

My confidence has sky rocketed and I'm already plowing through my next project.

I just wanted to say a big THANK YOU, because if it wasn't for the support that is provided from TGC and the community, it would be a very, very steep hill to climb.

Thanks again!

Joeism Faces
KG2Entertainment.com
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Juande
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2013 16:52 Edited at: 2nd Jul 2013 16:53
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I believe TGC has got £15000! (kickstarter + paypal)... Debuger will come! Next Goal... 3D.. £20000!!
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