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AppGameKit Classic Chat / AGK version 2 Alpha 7.1

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Naphier
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Posted: 28th Sep 2014 21:00
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Yes just single target plugins... AppGameKit should be able to accept a plugin into the IDE and then from the IDE you should be able to export an Eclipse or XCode project that has the proper java/obj-c files and libraries. That seems to be how Unity does it.
So it would be:
Export as -> Eclipse project
Select plugins
Additional dialogue prompts for any plugin specific configs.

I've been banging my head against the wall trying to figure out the java setup so that I can modify it to use OpenIAB. This would give us access to Google Play, Samsung, SlideMe, Amazon, Yandex, and a few other app stores. I really think OpenIAB should be standard for AppGameKit as it is extendable and already supports so much. Unfortunately the way that the AppGameKit commands are coded there is really no way to modify this without a whole bunch of trial and error. Considering SlideMe gets 30x downloads in comparison to Google Play (http://gamasutra.com/blogs/ArtursSosins/20140906/225010/Android_Market_Analysis_based_on_Two_Months_Download_Data.php) we NEED options like this to be relevant. Especially since we are tiny devs in a sea of folks with marketing budgets.

At this point I've not started working on my next project too much in AppGameKit because I need more features. I don't need 3D. I don't need Spine. I need social, GPlay Leaderboards, etc. I need IAP options. I'm releasing a version of Sudoku In Space that has no IAP to SlideMe to test out the results of the above article. If they hold true then I see no option but to look to Unity for our future projects, because AppGameKit is focusing too much on hobbyists and not enough on folks who are trying to make money. At this point I have to determine if Google Play Game services and other IAP options are important enough for me to spend a month learning Unity and C#. Given that Unity just released an update for the UI system I'm probably going with them. I can't wait for AppGameKit to catch up to popular game features.

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MikeHart
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Posted: 28th Sep 2014 23:09
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Hi Paul,

on my Kindle Fire HD7 and with the SpaceShooter example, the framerate drops significantly when particles are played. Either when the player ships explodes or enemy ships are destroyed. It runs normally at 60 FPs but when particles are shown, it drops down between 30-40 FPS and the game gets slower for that time.
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MikeHart
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Posted: 28th Sep 2014 23:30 Edited at: 28th Sep 2014 23:42
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Another problem with the Kindle... the player app doesn't react on the Back button. It reacts on the home button but when you open the app again, you can see it wasn't closed, just paused.

With the theater 3D demo, the level loads slow as hell.

Edit: Seems with some examples, the Kindle in Landscape mode only gets 30 FPS. In Portrait mode it will reach 60 FPS. The Santa game is a good example. The Theater demo too. But the space shooter runs 60 FPS in both orientations, with the particle problem in landscape. Is AGK2 not running well on the Kindle?
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 29th Sep 2014 00:58
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Paul:
I have just installed 7.1. I would love it if this line was added to the default code for new projects. It would be really convenient to have.

if GetRawKeyPressed( 27 ) then end

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Impetus73
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Posted: 29th Sep 2014 12:03
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You can edit the template files yourself they are located at:

...\IDE\Editor\data\templates\files

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Did Amiga / AMOS programming in the 90's.
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xGEKKOx
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Posted: 29th Sep 2014 14:37 Edited at: 29th Sep 2014 14:39
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@Naphier is right!!!!
"At this point I've not started working on my next project too much in AppGameKit because I need more features. I don't need 3D. I don't need Spine. I need social, GPlay Leaderboards, etc. I need IAP options. I'm releasing a version of Sudoku In Space that has no IAP to SlideMe to test out the results of the above article. If they hold true then I see no option but to look to Unity for our future projects, because AGK is focusing too much on hobbyists and not enough on folks who are trying to make money. At this point I have to determine if Google Play Game services and other IAP options are important enough for me to spend a month learning Unity and C#. Given that Unity just released an update for the UI system I'm probably going with them. I can't wait for AppGameKit to catch up to popular game features."

Exactly what i always wanted to explain.
Who use AppGameKit for money, wants other features. Not 3D or Spine.
Who want to earn from AppGameKit want what Naphier said.

I hope now all understand me.
I wanna be honest, maybe i'm the top earning at the moment with AppGameKit, and believe me,
we need the basic features, not Spine or other.

I need AppGameKit work or i can't earn any more. And what i will do if i can't earn any more?


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Ched80
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Posted: 29th Sep 2014 15:04 Edited at: 29th Sep 2014 15:08
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Let's just be patient. Some of us do want spine and 3d, but I suspect. TGC will add all those bits once the kickstarter features are completed.

I'm chuffed with the recent updates and I think v2 will be quite exceptional by the end of the year.

Edit: I also fail to see what is so bad about us hobbyists. Just because I code for fun doesn't make me any less of a customer to TGC.

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BraindeaD
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Posted: 29th Sep 2014 16:44
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Hi all,
I just downloaded the 7.1 for mac (osx 10.7.5) and the error persist when launch the IDE…


Is this version working for anybody with 10.7.5?
Thanks in advance.
Regards.
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Paul Johnston
TGC Developer
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Posted: 29th Sep 2014 17:49
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Quote: " because it doesn't recognize the Alt key, so can't type "[]"."


I don't understand, why does "[]" require a Ctrl-Alt combination?

Quote: "The suggestion you found me on the net didn't worked for me.
Also if i declared the UIWindow and set the viewController as RootController. It's show as the screenshot i done."


I tried this code in Core.m of the latest interpreter and it worked in both portrait and landscape, no stretched screen like your screenshot

You're not making this very easy for me, please send me some source code so I can replicate your issue.

Quote: "can you get the repo of GLFW and compile the project to 64-bit?"


I might eventually have to do that, but didn't want to risk breaking anything. I'd also have to do the same for DDHidLib

Quote: "why the rush to 64-bit for mobile apps? Why do you need more than ~4 gigs of address space? It's not faster."


I don't understand it either, but Apple are pushing everyone to 64-bit and it's only a matter of time before they start rejecting 32-bit. Also 64-bit may actually be faster on the latest Apple processors because they have stopped improving the 32-bit command set and are trying to remove armv7s.

Quote: "the framerate drops significantly when particles are played"

Quote: "the Kindle in Landscape mode only gets 30 FPS. In Portrait mode it will reach 60 FPS"


Sounds like it might be a fill rate issue, you'll have to try and limit the amount of over draw on that device or reduce the screen resolution with SetScreenResolution.

Quote: "the player app doesn't react on the Back button. It reacts on the home button but when you open the app again, you can see it wasn't closed, just paused."


Mobile devices do not like closing of apps, when you press the home button the current app is paused and then resumed when you reopen it. Apple will actually reject an app that tries to close itself.

Quote: "I would love it if this line was added to the default code for new projects. It would be really convenient to have.
if GetRawKeyPressed( 27 ) then end"


As mentioned above, mobile devices don't like it when apps close themselves, so I don't want to encourage using such a line in examples that people will inevitably leave in. As Impetus73 mentioned you can edit your copy of the template if you want to have that line in your projects.

Quote: "I just downloaded the 7.1 for mac (osx 10.7.5) and the error persist when launch the IDE"


In that case we might have to set the minimum version as 10.8, not sure what else I can do.
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Impetus73
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Posted: 29th Sep 2014 17:49
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Nope.. I gave up, and got a mac with 10.9.5

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Did Amiga / AMOS programming in the 90's.
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Markus
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Posted: 29th Sep 2014 17:56
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@Paul,
did you got my Mail?
forgotten to change subject "fwd failure notice"

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Dave47
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Posted: 29th Sep 2014 17:59
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Quote: "AGK is focusing too much on hobbyists and not enough on folks who are trying to make money"
I find this very insulting and hope TGC team ignore it.
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bjadams
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Posted: 29th Sep 2014 18:35
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well, i never made a profit of $1 with AppGameKit so then I suppose I am a hobbyist, even if my main income comes from programming.

I think if I paid for AppGameKit, then I have the right to ask for features whether a hobbyist or not. So essentially we all have the right to ask for features.

Some want this, some want that, it's OK! I would like to see the important social plugins and full spine support. 3d is good too, even though I have no plan to hire a 3d artist and pay thousands of $ for 3D models. Other people might want that feature, and if they paid for AppGameKit they have the right to ask too
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Impetus73
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Posted: 29th Sep 2014 18:55
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Maybe we should have a feature request thread, so the requests dont fill up all the other threads? Then all will be happy.

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Did Amiga / AMOS programming in the 90's.
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Naphier
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Posted: 29th Sep 2014 19:01
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Paul says he will look into OpenIAB. Unfortunately, he won't be able to do so for many months.

My point is that v2 has been focused on extending AppGameKit features that are not directly tied to marketing apps. Almost all successful apps have strong social features integrated. Without these we are being held back. I've been trying to get them on board with better Facebook integration and Google Play game services since before v2 was a topic. Ultimately I just want to see options for those of us who plan to make money from their games and aren't doing this just as a hobby.

Ultimately a plugin style system would work the best for AGK. Leave the code open so that we can actually make modifications to it. As it stands there are many many things that are simply locked down or so obscure that no one outside of AppGameKit can work it out.

Feature request thread would be great, but posts on these treads seem to get more attention

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Markus
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Posted: 29th Sep 2014 19:16
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i believe after kickstarter v2 paul need 2 months holiday ,
then u can ask for more features.

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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 29th Sep 2014 19:33
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I think posting in this thread is fine as long as it's relevant to the current alpha. Paul has a Kickstarter roadmap to stick to so most requests would be post 3D updates. Which I guess are after the debugger and all the requested fixes. But we are getting closer to the end of that list and so a request thread isn't a bad idea. I have been thinking about starting one for a while now.

Quote: "As mentioned above, mobile devices don't like it when apps close themselves, so I don't want to encourage using such a line in examples that people will inevitably leave in. As Impetus73 mentioned you can edit your copy of the template if you want to have that line in your projects."

Ah, good point. I wasn't just asking for myself but something that could be handy for everyone.

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Hockeykid
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Posted: 29th Sep 2014 19:47
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Quote: "Ultimately a plugin style system would work the best for AGK"


I agree, most of AGK's competition has support for plugins such as Unity, Game Maker, and Monkey X, Construct 2, etc. If a plugin system was introduced to AppGameKit, I would certainly develop some plugins for it.


Sean

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Naphier
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Posted: 29th Sep 2014 19:54
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I started a separate thread for v2 feature requests. Putting them on these update threads is probably not the best, but this is where Paul reads and responds so many of us have become accustomed to it. Hopefully having a single thread with the requests will work better and many of us can stop repeating ourselves

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janbo
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Posted: 29th Sep 2014 20:35 Edited at: 29th Sep 2014 20:48
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@Paul
That's funny, now i realized that the English keyboard have the "[]" on the right side of "P".
The German keyboard need an combination.
For example CTRL+ALT+"8" wich makes an "[".

That's the German osk of Win7:


I wonder how Markus or MikeHart do this?

not @Paul
And by the way, Im waiting for the 3D vertex manipulation commands.

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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 29th Sep 2014 20:41 Edited at: 29th Sep 2014 20:43
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On Swedish/Nordic keyboards we use Alt Gr (right side Alt key) for a lot of things, like {[]} and more. AppGameKit has had problems with Alt since it was released. Have talked to Paul about it before but I don't think we got anywhere. Alt is a very common key to use in games so I really think AppGameKit should be able to detect it. Just tried and Ctrl+Alt gives me the same as Alt Gr.

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Naphier
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Posted: 29th Sep 2014 20:50
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Paul did address the Alt issue, sort of. I think the right alt works, but not left... not sure. One of them binds to opening the window menu, which is fairly worthless in a game. He said it was due to Windows structure. Funny thing is though that even though Paul says he can't do this it seems that most games already lock the Alt key and prevent it from opening the window menu...

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janbo
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Posted: 29th Sep 2014 20:54
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Oh wow thank you.
Ctrl+Alt Gr works!

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Markus
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Posted: 29th Sep 2014 20:58
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@janbo
Alt Gr macht auch [] also die rechte Alt Taste
for english readers: i do [] with right alt key

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MikeHart
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Posted: 29th Sep 2014 21:57
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@janbo: ALT + 5/6 on a german apple keyboard.
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MikeHart
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Posted: 29th Sep 2014 21:59
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Quote: "Mobile devices do not like closing of apps, when you press the home button the current app is paused and then resumed when you reopen it. Apple will actually reject an app that tries to close itself."


With iOS I agree. Android is a different story. There for half of the apps I need an extra app to kill them.
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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 29th Sep 2014 22:13
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Quote: "Quote: "Mobile devices do not like closing of apps, when you press the home button the current app is paused and then resumed when you reopen it. Apple will actually reject an app that tries to close itself."

With iOS I agree. Android is a different story. There for half of the apps I need an extra app to kill them. "


While it is no longer required to quit out of apps in Android 4.x, most do when you back out of them. I've just checked with Facebook and Gmail. My Internet browser (Samsung) doesn't. And when I quit RTA on my phone it does quit. I am also one of those who prefer to close my apps.

To see the current active apps you need to open up the task manager. On my Note 3 I hold down the home button to bring up the multitasking list, apps remain here even when closed. And then I tap the little pie chart button in the bottom left. Here you can see all running apps and also close them easily.

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MikeHart
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Posted: 29th Sep 2014 23:59
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Quote: "On my Note 3 I hold down the home button to bring up the multitasking list"


Ahhh the joy of Android Works different on each brand and version. That does not work on the Kindle Fire HD7. I am using Advanced Task manager for it.
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Naphier
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Posted: 30th Sep 2014 00:14
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The desired behavior according to Google for Android apps is to not force close them or terminate the process. The OS expects to make that decision. 90% of apps do not actually close when you exit with a back key. Those that do have a lot of cleanup they need to do to ensure it is done properly. NDK apps often throw an error when the app sends a force close signal.
The OS itself, like iOS, makes the determination of whether the device needs to free up RAM or not and close the app. The reason for this is to decrease loading times. No user wants to wait for an app to reload every time they exit it. Users are accustomed to using the back key to exit apps on many android devices as it is default android behavior. This almost always sends the app to the background. It is evident by the load time when you re-enter the app.
Lots of AppGameKit developers allow the app to actually terminate when the user backs out. This isn't good practice and you're forcing users to fully reload the app if they leave via back button then re-enter.
iOS actually forbids you to have an exit function for the app, though I have gotten away with it. This is not how mobile OSes are designed.

With Task Switchers you can force close apps. Android 4.x has this by default and some manufacturers decide to remove it altogether because you don't need to do it. Most apps when in the background take up no processor power and are in a suspended state. You do not need to terminate the apps! It actually doesn't do anything for you as Android automatically allocates the needed memory for an app as it chugs along and terminates apps that aren't being used. Some apps do stay running, but not many, I've found that Amazon apps do this and even if you do force kill them they just reload in a second or two.

Here's a good thread on this:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2439978/why-dont-android-applications-provide-an-exit-option

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Digital Awakening
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Posted: 30th Sep 2014 00:18
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Quote: "Ahhh the joy of Android Works different on each brand and version. That does not work on the Kindle Fire HD7. I am using Advanced Task manager for it. "

The Andorid task manager came around 2.x. It can be accessed in different ways on different devices. Unless Amazon have hidden or removed it, it should be somewhere on your tablet. The latest HD7 do run Fire OS, which is an Android fork.

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Naphier
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Posted: 30th Sep 2014 00:20
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Pretty silly to hide it... I find it very very handy. I know on the older diveces it was just a task manager and you had to go into "Remove App" to force close or clear cache. On 4.x it is so much easier, you can long press the preview screen in the switcher to get to the options like clearing cache, stop, or turn off notifications.

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Caps On!
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Posted: 30th Sep 2014 06:40
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Paul,

Just downloaded the latest alpha to my iMac. Love it, Love it, Love it! Thanks sooo much. I am glad that I backed AGK2!

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shadey
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Posted: 30th Sep 2014 12:44 Edited at: 30th Sep 2014 12:47
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Is it possible to add a feature for those with more than one partition ..on compile.. to copy over the projects folder to the second partition for you, I know it aint a big deal for anyone but for the most laziest amongst us(me!) ... would just be nice in case the unthinkable happens, for me it took trying to install Linux on a non mbr partition that these crappy Toshiba laptops have, grub failed and I lost windows due to how laptops are, I have always hated laptops coz of these annoying things with them just by the fact that they never come with windows or any other on a disk. Fortunately I had dumped a lot of code on my blog, guess I wasn't as lazy that day!

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Markus
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Posted: 30th Sep 2014 13:57 Edited at: 30th Sep 2014 13:59
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@shadey
i think you can use a free source code management tool
or just send to zip and move this folder anywhere as backup.
myself i zip a project folder and input the date in filename
and move it on extern hd.
for copy only u can use a command/batch file.

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Impetus73
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I just use the Cloud service Microsoft OneDrive disk as the project default saving location, then I make manual backups to my server also.

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Did Amiga / AMOS programming in the 90's.
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xGEKKOx
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Posted: 1st Oct 2014 17:11
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Hi Paul, any news?

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swissolo
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Posted: 1st Oct 2014 23:27 Edited at: 1st Oct 2014 23:30
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I have been creating my own implementation of the steam api in AppGameKit and so far it has gone fantastically. I\'ll release it later on for other users. The changes to arrays have been a fantastic addition, but I really wish these language advancements could be taken further. For instance, why aren\'t we allowed to pass in references of Strings and primitives? That may not be a conventional expectation, but I can see numerous useful applications. It would be great to see function overloading too. Additionally, making this
functional could help to condense code.

I also have a question for whoever here that can answer it. How frequently should HTTP connections be closed? Should I treat them like a generic network session and leave it open until all uses are exhausted or should the connection be opened and closed before every call? I'm not very familiar with the conventions

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Naphier
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With Wordspionage we close the HTTP connections after usage then start new ones. Not doing so was having strange results from time to time, like the response from a previous request would show in the new request. So we just close them every time and it cleared up. I was worried using so many connections would be a problem, but Wordspionage opens/closes one every 0.5 seconds or so and I've left the app running for hours without an issue.

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swissolo
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2014 01:12 Edited at: 2nd Oct 2014 01:19
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Ok good to know Also it's too bad sendHTTPRequest() doesn't have a variant like getHTTPFile() where you can run other processing in the background while you wait I really don't like having AppGameKit go idle just to receive data. Is there any better way?

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Markus
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2014 01:16
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SendHTTPRequest -> SendHTTPRequestASync ?

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swissolo
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2014 01:20
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Oh how could I have missed that? ASync doesn't make sense at all for the name of that command though. It's synchronous, not asynchronous. Well good catch I should have read in more depth

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Naphier
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2014 01:21
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@Markus - I use SendHTTPRequestASYNC exclusively. I think the non-async is a bad idea as a slow network might make it look like your app is locked up.
@Swissolo - GetHTTPFile is asynchronous already.

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Naphier
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2014 01:30
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Asynchronous is the correct term.
https://tle.wisc.edu/blend/facilitate/communicate

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swissolo
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2014 01:33 Edited at: 2nd Oct 2014 02:21
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Maybe I've just had the terminology backwards.

synchronous
1.existing or occurring at the same time.

asynchronous
1.not occurring at the same time.

Wouldn't an asynchronous command stop and wait while a synchronous command drops into the background to run alongside your code?

Anyways, I was aware that getHTTPFile always moves into the background

Edit: Hmmm I guess I'll just trust you on that one. It doesn't make intuitive sense to me but I can accept it Better to embarrass myself on the forums and get a straight answer than to never find the answer at all

Edit2: I don't want to speak too soon, but I think passing in references of arrays of UDTs combined with the insert command is broken. AppGameKit was crashing until I placed the array into another UDT. (creating a reference to a UDT of an array of UDTs ) It's a very hard scenario to explain, but the crashing occured whenever I called insert on that array(at any point in time seemingly)

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BatVink
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2014 10:55
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Synchronous refers to the fact that it executes "in line", synchronised with the other operations, so the next operation has to wait for it to finish.

Asynchronous steps out of line (works on a new thread) so that the thread it was called from can continue without waiting for the result. Thus, it is out of synchronisation with the code that called it.

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Markus
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2014 13:11
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@Paul,
myArray.sort() pop up a message can not sort an empty array.
just sort nothing without message please.

AGK 108 (B)19 + AppGameKit V2 Alpha .. : Windows 8.1 Pro 64 Bit : AMD Radeon R7 265
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JimHawkins
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Posted: 2nd Oct 2014 20:20
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i think the message is correct, since that's programmer error.

-- Jim - When is there going to be a release?
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Markus
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2014 00:21 Edited at: 3rd Oct 2014 00:22
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@JimHawkins
no its not. the function just should do and shut up (no message). trust me.

AGK 108 (B)19 + AppGameKit V2 Alpha .. : Windows 8.1 Pro 64 Bit : AMD Radeon R7 265
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Paul Johnston
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2014 03:47
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Quote: "Is it possible to add a feature for those with more than one partition ..on compile.. to copy over the projects folder to the second partition for you"


In the Tools->Plugin Manager there is a save actions plugin that can backup your files every so often.

Quote: "Hi Paul, any news?"


I replied here http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=212209&b=41&msg=2535296#m2535296

Quote: "I think passing in references of arrays of UDTs combined with the insert command is broken."


If you can replicate the bug please send me the code so I can run it through the debugger and find the cause.

Quote: "myArray.sort() pop up a message can not sort an empty array."


I guess there is no harm in sorting an empty array without error, it doesn't leave the interpreter in an undefined state.
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xGEKKOx
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Posted: 3rd Oct 2014 20:33 Edited at: 3rd Oct 2014 22:10
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Hi Paul, if for you on the iPAD it works, can you post a new Template that works for you?
So i can see the differences and help all the users to understand how to modify the old one.

If you use only Landscape and do an Universal app, you will see that when you launch a IPAD app, it remain on the 768x1024 pointer grid instead of 1024x768.

The problem is that the pointer grid don't rotate with the new "orientation based" system by Apple.
This make the apps always rejected.

So if for you all works, please post a new template, maybe your new template have the new sizes in the MainWindow.xib

I'm going crazy cause i can't work

EDIT : I tried all, also in MainWindow.xib with no luck. Always the pointer assume 768x1024, i think is a problem in AGK.

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