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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / We're collecting your bugs!

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IBOL
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Posted: 28th Dec 2004 04:21 Edited at: 29th Dec 2004 01:13
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adding my voice:

- transparency issues (already mentioned)
- icons (already mentioned)
- remstart/remend (already mentioned)
- set display mode incompatibilities (already mentioned)
- terrain issues (already mentioned)
- all music and sound bugs (music or sound stops playing , but music playing(1) returns true, etc.
no game is "professional" without sound and music (and icons))
- i don't know if the latest update allows use of array element zero
as in chicken(0)=47 ... i know 5.2 allows use of element zero, but i heard that
some higher upgrade doesn't...please allow array element zero to hold data.

and one big request:
*no new features till bugs fixed*
DBP is feature laden and quite powerful,
when it works. it's the working of it that concerns us here...

yes, i realize i am about to yell,
but this is something i've felt since day one:

PLEASE MAKE AN UPGRADE THAT I AM NOT AFRAID TO DOWNLOAD.
(ie fix bugs *without* introducing new ones)

if that takes an extra month, take an extra month.
but please please do it.

what phillip said was quite true...
make DBP all it can be and the sales will come in.

thank you,
bob

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=44054&b=5

http://astrumgames.com
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 28th Dec 2004 05:36
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Quote: "please allow array element zero to hold data"

Fine in 5.7

Beware the Christmas... The fattener... The drunkard...
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Rob K
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Posted: 28th Dec 2004 07:56 Edited at: 28th Dec 2004 08:02
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Quote: "They can then first select and work on those bugs which are the more fundamental / important / higher priority. Besides, any thread just encourages debate and conversation rather than focusing purely on listing bugs."


The downside of that approach is that it will let Lee and Mike decide the importance of each bug, rather than hearing community opinion on the subject.

Sadly I feel that the intended "bug blitz" is not the best solution to the problem. DBPro's general functionality issues are IMHO, a product of the design and implementation approach taken by the team.

I learnt the hard way with BlueIDE that if you cock up the planning phase, it really makes things complicated later on. Every time you switch tabs in BIDE to a different source file, the program has to store all the code in an array, the scrollbar position, and lots of other view-related data. Keeping all this info in sync took about 2000 lines of code. Of course, if I had thought about it for 30 seconds, and just used one set of controls per source file, I could have saved myself a week's worth of late nights.

Back to the topic, I think that the only way to sort the debugger and compiler for good is going to involve rewriting large chunks of them from scratch. There is no way that is going to be done in one week. The engine itself is hopefully fairly well sorted after Patch 4, and just needs some fixes to a leaky boat. For BSPs, if BSPs were simply converted to a series of DBO objects when loaded, then the portal system could be used with them plus the collision would be the same as for the rest of the engine. Then the only code that would need to be fixed would be the BSP convertors themselves.


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Blue Icarian Wings
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Posted: 28th Dec 2004 09:52 Edited at: 28th Dec 2004 09:56
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Quote: "Lost in Thought

2. Debugger and step through useless
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=39099&b=15
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=44076&b=15
3. Camera rotation
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=43091&b=15
"


Quote: "Philip

However, even I think that just hammering the most annoying/persistent bugs in the next bug week isn't good enough. Really I think that Lee has got to commit himself with Mike to getting rid of every single [confirmed] bug posted in the bugs forum. Anything less than that, after 2 years of DBPro being on the market, and after having got to update v5.8, is in my view totally unsatisfactory. I think everyone here can understand and accept that the focus is presently on FPSC. We all want TGC to continue to succeed and do well - obviously FPSC is a big part of that. But once FPSC is out Lee's attention really has to come back onto sorting the flagship product out."


Quote: "Rob K

6. The compiler does need some performance tweaks. I realise that it is never going to be as good as VC++, but there should not be such a significant performance difference between DGSDK and DBPro. Improvements here would benefit FPSC, so this, to my mind, would make sense both from a commercial perspective and a user support perspective."


smaller exe's and not eating up the whole cpu

Quote: "Rob K

I think that the only way to sort the debugger and compiler for good is going to involve rewriting large chunks of them from scratch. There is no way that is going to be done in one week.
"


Recycling may be cheap, but it's good for the enviroment

as a 3rd year software enginerring undergraduate, I very strongly agree with the last quote, it may be easier to 'fire-fight' but it's a losing stragery(spelling!) the easyiest ones normally are

To brutally honest if I'd read the fourms before buying DBP and found out the debugger hasn't worked for the last two patches (more or less), and that every bug fix seems to create a new bug, I wouldn't of bought DBP, and indeed probably would of given anything by this company a wide berth

I don't expect DBP to live upto Borland C++ (builder enterprise edition), but I really don't like feeling that when code doesn't I don't know if it's my fault, or the compilers(much more comfertable when it's my fault, I know it's fixable!), and step-through/run until breakpoint with variable watching, I can not live without when doing my C++ stuff, the lack of debugger really is a bad joke

anyway, rather you than me guys, I'd hate to be stuck between the demand for quick fix, firefighting which will fail in the long run, and having to rewrite a complier, with an impatient crowd looking on, good luck either way
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 28th Dec 2004 11:03
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Yes I read the forums but the promise of new hope caught my eye in a few forum members so I bought it anyway. I am not disappointed in DBP's feature list as is at all. It is very powerful for the money and licensing (or shall I say with all the advertised features working it could be) and I have no problem paying for any new features not promised. But I will not buy them until DBP is more stable. Which hopefully will be my march of next year. Keep a look out I can see great things happening with DBP. Too bad it's going to be such a long time away. If they fix the bugs I posted, I will be perfectly happy with DBP until they get FPSC done and can start back on DBP fixes again.

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re faze
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Posted: 28th Dec 2004 11:52
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i dont know about the vibration thing because it happens randomly. maybe i will rem out lines one by one and find the offending line (provided it exists)

[quote]What! Im not drunk, I just have a speech impediment... , and a stomach virus ... , and an inner ear infection!
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Philip
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Posted: 28th Dec 2004 20:26
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@RobK

I don't disagree with you. I've said before (and I said above) that I think this time Lee really has to focus on, and commit himself and his team, to hammering every single [confirmed] bug, no matter how long that takes. At present there are about 100 [confirmed] threads. What scares me is that we may have a repeat of last year's bug week, i.e. a lot of bugs get fixed, some new bugs are introduced, and a lot of bugs are left untouched. That was obviously progress and is welcomed but there is more than a sense of "one step forward, half a step back" about it. This time, I'd really like to see all the bugs get killed. At least then when people ask me whether they should buy DBP, I can say definitely, categorically and absolutely: "YES! BUY IT NOW!" rather than "Yes, but bear in mind ...."

Cheers

Philip

What do you mean, bears aren't supposed to wear hats and a tie? P3.2ghz / 1 gig / GeForce FX 5900 128meg / WinXP home
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Peter H
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Posted: 28th Dec 2004 20:30
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I vote for everything that people have mentioned here EXCEPT the debugger...

i don't really think the debugger is something that is a priority right now (it won't magically fix you're program, even if it is working)

"We make the worst games in the universe."

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 28th Dec 2004 20:34 Edited at: 28th Dec 2004 22:28
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Unfortunately Philip, I dont think Lee and Mike will be able to spare the time to fix everything until March. Its a shame they cant hire extra people to help in that regard.

Next year, it might be worth Mike & Lee trying to get DBPro an ISO rating (ie a Quality Managment System).

The reasoning being is that it means that bug testing and the whole system is verifable and stable. ISO ratings are held in high regard - they define exactly what your allowed (or not allowed) to do - it would be another thing to show off.

Beware the Christmas... The fattener... The drunkard...
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 28th Dec 2004 22:35
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Quote: "I vote for everything that people have mentioned here EXCEPT the debugger..."


The debugger getting fixed is my main concern.

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Blue Icarian Wings
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Posted: 28th Dec 2004 23:16
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Quote: "Peter_
i don't really think the debugger is something that is a priority right now (it won't magically fix you're program, even if it is working)"


but if it lets me know what the problem is I can fix it

If you lose control of you data, you lose control of your program

when it does go crazy, the debugger is the best way to find out what your data is doing, yes you can print to screen, but it's not really good enough, and if data is changing quickly it's no subsitute for step-through

Quote: "Trippin Cats Area
get DBPro an ISO rating"

somehow I don't see DBP ever getting ISO qualified, and although I don't know much about them, I bet it ain't cheap
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Justice
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Posted: 28th Dec 2004 23:53
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When ever you change the text size while displaying 3d objects really slows the game down. I would call this a bug! & it would be great if this was added to the list to bugs to be fixed.

I'm sure this would be quite easy to fix !
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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 28th Dec 2004 23:58
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As RobK said, shadow shading needs to be sped up. I cannot realistically use shadows at the moment, it seems a nice feature but simply not fast enough.

Isn't it? Wasn't it? Marvellous!
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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 29th Dec 2004 02:39
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I can say for a *FACT* that everytime I see a message posted from "Lost In Thought" I *ALWAYS* think of the debugger not working (and I have never used the debugger).

Like Peanut Butter and Jelly, Bread and Cheese, Lost In Thought and Debugger.

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Benjamin
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Posted: 29th Dec 2004 03:27
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Quote: "I suggest that you construct your list from bugs that you have actually experienced, rather than speculation."

was just listing stuff I saw wrong with the details on the box. I forgot about that free version of that terrain plugin .

Cerry Mhristmas!
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 29th Dec 2004 04:34 Edited at: 29th Dec 2004 15:50
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Yeah I do mention it alot. It is mostly because I am not working on my projects anymore ATM (other bugs I mentioned along with some NGC bugs I'm waiting to be sorted out) and I use DBP mainly just to help other people right now. When someone sends you a 3000 line code that crashes on run. The easiest and fastest way to help them is to use the debugger to see when, where, and how the program crashed and ran until it crashed. If DBP didn't have so many changing bugs with each patch, you would hardly ever need the debugger. But it is hard to find out if it is a DBP bug or a coding bug with large programs. Every bug report I have filed in the bug forum (all have been confirmed I believe and some fixed) was found using the debugger. More so the fact that this software is aimed at people with no/little programming experience makes it all the more important to have a debugger. Lee broke it in 2 days I'm sure he can fix it in 2. The problem was not in 5.6 beta 2 but was in 5.6 final, is still here, and it looks like it will be here in 5.8 (I could be wrong). I am testing some things to try and make the debugger to work as I can see it isn't a bug priority to TGC as Lee doesn't use it (or so I have heard).

[edit] And the company I work for is ISO 9001 certified and the only thing that changes is we not have tons of quality paperwork. The flaw in the ISO system is you get to decide what to do to maintain quality. They are just there to make sure you do what you say you will do. And yes it is not cheap.

[edit2] Actually upon investigation, it appears the debugger is not actually broken as it is the same version as DBP 5.5 (which worked). When the compiler was updated he probably changed something it needed (like 5.7 breaking a couple of plugins) and it just needs to be recompiled with the new changes (like the terrain dll).

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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 29th Dec 2004 04:42 Edited at: 29th Dec 2004 04:44
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So Lee, Mike, Richard or whomever. Please take a few moments to see for any obviously stangeness with the debugger. I would like to see a thread without a post from LIT mentioning the debugger.

It would give me peace of mind.

-This...is my boomstick!
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dark coder
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Posted: 29th Dec 2004 04:53
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Quote: "music volume is the same at 200 as 100"


isnt 100 the maximum volume you can have? therefore there wouldent be any increace from 100-200


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Galiem Vaelant
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Posted: 29th Dec 2004 05:35
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The debugger, and image size constraints. Life would be so much easier if image sizes could follow the same rules as bitmaps.

You have a memory like trying to catch water in a steel trap. - A friend
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 29th Dec 2004 06:03
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Quote: "isnt 100 the maximum volume you can have? therefore there wouldent be any increace from 100-200"

Could just be a help file problem - the maximum isn't defined.

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G Man
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 00:51
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Perhaps I missed it. No one has mentioned the inconsistencies in the collision routines. That makes it tough to program when your collision functions do not provide consistent and accurate values.

Here's a thread where we're having to write jury-rigged code to work around this issue. http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=44830&b=1&p=1

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Rob K
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 04:18
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Yes, we shouldn't need to buy NGC for fairly simple collision checking. It is a bit unreliable at the moment.


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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 04:29
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Yes I modified my original list on the first page to reflect this. And I put some example code with no media showing the errors in the scheduled post for this in the bug forum.
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=15146&b=15 I'm still testing it some more. I never noticed how bad it really was off because I bought NGC early on. Helping people who can't afford NGC is where I started running into it and then when G Man had his problem it became more clear what was off.

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Philip
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 06:06
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@TCA

I don't mind waiting. If Lee and Mike can't fix all the bugs until March thats fine. I'm happy enough as I know Mike is trying to fix as many as he can on a rolling basis. However, I do think that after FPSC is released, which might or might not be March - could be later?, Lee really needs to commit himself to then having an intensive "kill all remaining bugs" session with Mike. What would really frustrate would be if Lee had a sort of half-hearted "kill some remaining bugs" session.

@Lost in Thought

I see your point but without intending any disrespect please can I say that I think its an over-exaggeration to say DBPro is unusable for a project greater than 3,000 lines. My project is now circa 20,000 and despite having to use a large number of frustrating work-arounds for existing bugs, development continues at my customary sporadic pace.

I think the actual utility of the debugger is a matter of personal coding style. I don't actually miss the debugger myself because I found it pretty useless in the first place. For example, it doesn't handle typed arrays at all well. Hence I've always output data to the screen. However, from a community pride / "DBPro is the greatest!" perspective, I do find it very embarrassing that the debugger is broken.

I say this because I used to go around advocating the purchase of DBPro to all my mates who are interested in programming. However, when they said: "whats the downside?" and I had to admit the debugger was broken, that made me look stupid. So I've stopped advocating it.

Cheers

Philip

What do you mean, bears aren't supposed to wear hats and a tie? P3.2ghz / 1 gig / GeForce FX 5900 128meg / WinXP home
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SpoonBill
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 09:04
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I've been using the DB products since the word "GO", and in my humble opinion, the DBpro IDE Debugger is absolute "pants" . In fact, I haven't actually managed to debug a single routine... ever... because in my experience it has catastrophically failed 100% of the time. Whilst developing, debug is an extremely important tool, one that's required by veteran and novice programmers alike. Now pretty-please, with sugar on top, fix the IDE debugger as a priority.
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Ian T
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 09:54 Edited at: 30th Dec 2004 10:34
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Okay, I'm throwing the current master list together right now, and adding my two cents while I'm at it.

First off, to Philip. I agree a week of bug fixing won't fix everything, or even half of it. Some serious work needs to be done on the compiler, and past that, there are simply too many general bugs to be fixed in a week (given the speed they were worked on last time). Not to mention the fact that the upgrades need to be tested a bit more; not even 5.7 really ended the curse of each upgrade fixing old bugs and adding new ones.

However, I think compiling this list is really important. Whether it's for the bug week or the bug decade, it's a way of the community telling TGC what's most important to them. From TGC's and the average developer's perspective it's a great way of getting them to know the community's priorities. The list won't go out of date in a week or months, at that, and until the Bug Reports forum sees some revamping, I think it will be a great aid to TGC. Kudos to Rick for the idea .

Okay, now here's what really annoys me:

-Shadow shading: Absolutely pants, in ways described previously.
-Debugger: Even more (less?) pants, in ways described previously.
-Advanced Terrain: Set Display Mode, Update Terrain glitch... all the stuff mentioned previously.
-3ds support: It's really about time it was fixed

Edit: Also throwing in votes for BSP and fixing the scale object issues .

And since quasi-requests seem to be going along, I'll throw in-

-Compiler: Rob K's suggestion for optimization is, I feel, very important.
-EXEs: Should not take up 99% of CPU processes all the time.

That's all .

Master list coming in an hour or so-- I've organized things by general topic, by number of votes, and in sub-sections the specific glitches. I'd love to hear input on how it's set up (or if I counted votes wrong) once it's online, after all it's something from the entire community.

I'm planning on finalizing it and sending it in to TGC on January 4th, the day before they get back from vacation I believe .

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APEXnow
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 10:52
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Vote for shadowing

Paul.


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Ian T
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 11:48 Edited at: 30th Dec 2004 11:49
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Okay, here it is as of right now .

A little more on how it's grouped--

20 bugs really isn't a lot in the grand scheme of what everyone wants fixed, and a lot of them are really interwoven, so it didn't make sense to me to just index each individual bug when some are so closely related. Plus, it would be a bit odd to tell TGC of four important sprite bugs to fix and leave one they could have nailed while they were at it unmentioned just because as many people didn't know about it, for example. So I've grouped the bugs by category, and each category is organized by the amount of votes its parts got. It gets more info to TGC and organizes it better, I think, but if anyone disagrees I'd be glad to change it.

Also, if the organization could be improved, I'm open to suggestions.

Now-- I've tried to collect sources for every issue-- TCA and Lost in Thought were big helps here-- but some I still lack solid proof for. I'd really appreciate it if people could help find or make proof of these issues. I think we all agree TGC's time is better spent fixing something than scouring the forum . The bold bug reports are ones I need proof for.

There are thirty categories in total, some with very few votes. Right now I'm thinking I'll send the whole list, no matter how many bugs it has, to TGC, and they can just ignore the ones lower than 20 if they want-- but the others will still be there if they want a quick reference.

So without further ado I give you the the master list.

Edit-- some notes:

I just put 'completely screwed' on the debugger issue as Lee has already confirmed that it has major issues in the last IRC chat.

Some things have extra votes because of people who pitched in their two cents on the IRC, but not the forum .

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 12:05 Edited at: 30th Dec 2004 12:07
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Good work there... Accurate descriptions !

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FoxBlitzz
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 12:08
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Simply put, the 3D engine needs work. Especially the shadow casting. Even DBC had better shadows! You guys ought to be ashamed. The shadows are too light, too slow, and there's no way to avoid self-shadowing when you don't want to use it. Reflection shading doesn't work properly on a sphere: it acts like a flat mirror! And the reflection is missing part of the scene. At least using fake cameras and cube mapping works for reflective spheres. You should also add a bump mapping method that doesn't require shaders to use.

Also, you should fix the horrendous time it takes to delete objects. That results in having lots of objects loaded into memory, bogging down the system, because deleting them takes too long.

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Ian T
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 12:12
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Quote: "Good work there... Accurate descriptions !"


Thanks


Evil Monkey-> As crucial as I feel some suggestions are, this is for things already in that have definite existing flaws-- but I'll chalk up one for shadowcasting and add the delete objects thing

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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 13:19
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Yeah great work Mouse. I do not understand this one though.

Advanced Terrain at 8 votes
d. Can’t hide individual terrain limbs

You can hide individual limbs as long as you don't use the update terrain command. If you were going to hide and show them yourself then why use the update terrain command? It's probably just something I'm overlooking.

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Ian T
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I just saw it mentioned earlier. If the original poster can clarify I'll leave it in, if not, I'll cut it

And cheers for the kind words; thanks to you for submitting so much

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 15:31
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Anything to improve the quality of DBPro

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Philip
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 18:52
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@Mouse

I'm afraid we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one my friend. I can certainly see the utility in having a "priority list". However, I'd also like to see Lee commit himself to fixing all the known bugs, rather than just "priority" ones. If we just stick with the priority approach we'll be here until doomsday because there will always be annoying bugs in existence which haven't been fixed because they aren't considered a "priority".

Incidentally, I observe that some of the suggestions are not bug fixes at all but are requests for improved functionality. For example: "Shadow shading: absolutely pants, in ways described previously", "compiler optimisation" and the EXE 99% CPU usage issue. It seems to me that we are in danger of mixing apples with oranges here. If this is a bug list then it should just contain bugs.

Hey ho. I've said my piece now. I'm not going to intervene further. Best of luck compiling the priority list - I'd be interested in seeing it myself.

Cheers

Philip

What do you mean, bears aren't supposed to wear hats and a tie? P3.2ghz / 1 gig / GeForce FX 5900 128meg / WinXP home
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Rob K
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 19:55
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Quote: "-EXEs: Should not take up 99% of CPU processes all the time."


SYNC OFF should solve that.

Quote: "If we just stick with the priority approach we'll be here until doomsday because there will always be annoying bugs in existence which haven't been fixed because they aren't considered a "priority"."


I agree - there are far more than just 20 or 30 bugs which really need attention.

Quote: " If this is a bug list then it should just contain bugs."


If there is a problem with DBPro which is really irritating users and which is making them less productive, but which is not strictly speaking a bug then that doesn't mean it should not be "fixed". Shadows are a good example, aside from the actual bugs in them (polys appearing randomly in mid-air), it is too slow to be useable.


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BatVink
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 20:13
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The 2 confirmed issues in the enhancement pack would be nice to have fixed, as I need them both, it's why I bought it!

Speech - Stops program execution
When running Send Voice Message, and also Send Voice Message XML, the program stops until the speech ends.

OGG - Get Ogg Vorbis State() not working
If you Play your file, it always returns 1, even after it has finished.

So you can't cue your game / intro / whatever based on when tracks finish!

...and just to reiterate, volume doesn't work either. If you have a backing track to your game, you have to stop it dead at the end of the level.

These are both critical to Ogg Vorbis in my opinion. You can't cue, and you can't fade in or out.

BatVink
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Blue Icarian Wings
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 21:14 Edited at: 30th Dec 2004 21:19
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nice list
for advanced terrain could you add the save terrain feature not working at all?

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=45034&b=15

and some documenation beyound "Saves a terrain file from the specified ID. The default extension for terrains is ".DBT"." would be nice, what does it save just the generated polygon data or does it remember the bmp's used to make it, or both, or a mystry 4th?,..........
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Jess T
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 21:50 Edited at: 30th Dec 2004 21:52
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It keeps timing out on the list

I have to agree with Philip as well. The bugs need to be taken care of. Ever last one of 'em, till everything runs as is supposed to.
THEN, TGC should focus on things such as the 99% cpu usage, etc.

However, I still do feel confident that alot of the smaller bugs are able to be worked around, while alot of the more generally annoying ( most of those in the list ), can be fixed as soon as possible, so that those effected can get on with their projects in that area

Things such as Shadows don't really need to be fixed at all for this list.
I mean, you only need shadows to make the thing look good, right?
You only need to make it look good when it's nearing release, right?
If you're releasing it to just us at the forum ( and maybe your own website ), who's gonna notice if there's no shadows, right?
That sort of 'bug' can wait

Oh, the page loaded now

Nice list

Jess.

[EDIT]
Put me down for a vote on the Variables section
[/EDIT]


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Ian T
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 22:19
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Hi guys,

About the shadows and similar things... I think if a feature or aspect of the program is so flawed that it is completely impractical to use it in virtually any situation, it's stretching the truth to say it works even if it has no specific bugs-- and shadows actually do have some specific bugs as well which I'll be adding.

I agree TGC should address every bug eventually, but what's wrong with them setting priorities the way most people in the community want things to be fixed? That's what it's all about, right ? And who knows-- if the Bug Reports forum is upgraded the day Rich gets back this could prove to be instantly obsolete. I dunno. But I think it's a worthwhile endeavor. Philip-- agreed .

I'll upload a list with the new votes in a bit.

Cheers!

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Eric T
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 22:37
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Yo, throw a vote on for the Debugger for me... That really needs to get fixed up.

I was going to say something about CPU usage also, but that was covered already.

And BSP... I must say that should be worked out. I usually try with HL1 maps, or with the "de_Dust.bsp" from CS 1.5. The results are ugly, lemme tell ya. Alot of texture areas just ugly, some parts are transparent for no apparent reason. So I can only plead that the BSP get teh fix up. So yeahm you can stick me under the "Non Q3 don't load right". Was having slightly better luck with the Q3 ones, for atleast they we're textured right .

/me crawls back in his hole

<Mouse> lag, d'you like "real" RPGs? : <drac_work> ... : <drac_work> isnt that an oxymoron : * Mouse slaps drac_work :
<Mouse> don't contradict me bitch
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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 22:56
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Quote: "I have to agree with Philip as well. The bugs need to be taken care of. Ever last one of 'em, till everything runs as is supposed to."

Yes, it would be nice to start on it straight away. Unfortunately at the moment the FPSC is in the way...

Beware the Christmas... The fattener... The drunkard...
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Ian T
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 23:06 Edited at: 30th Dec 2004 23:07
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You're against me, aren't you? Trolls carrying AK47s have always been against me. Even as a child, trolls despised me. I never knew why



Eric-> Cheers

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 23:20
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Just for you - I'll change it...

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Ian T
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 23:26
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Thank you. I feel so much more secure.

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 23:27
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Until someone drops a Tribble...

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jrowe
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Posted: 30th Dec 2004 23:36 Edited at: 2nd Jan 2005 21:07
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Quick Post, haven't got time to explain fully at the moment:

Quote: "Evil Monkey: You should also add a bump mapping method that doesn't require shaders to use."


That what blend mode 24 is meant to do but it dosen't work with textured objects, so that's another vote for blend mode 24 fixes .

Inidentally, Mouse, there are other blend modes so can you be a bit more specific on the master list so Lee and Mike know what you're talking about (There are about 30 other blend modes for different things).

Also the reason I asked for hiding of induvidual terrain limbs is, it would be infinitely useful if we could take advantage of the autohiding of terrain limbs and hide/show the specific limbs in view of the camera.


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Philip
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Posted: 31st Dec 2004 03:40
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At the end of the day lets not all get very heated about this. Its always worth remembering that Lee is only not fixing the bugs at the moment because he has a new product and needs revenue to live, eat and pay his mortgage. Its NOT like we're dealing with someone who doesn't care. Lee cares passionately about DBPro. But he's only human and there are only so many hours in the night (when Lee seems to work!!?)

Philip

What do you mean, bears aren't supposed to wear hats and a tie? P3.2ghz / 1 gig / GeForce FX 5900 128meg / WinXP home
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Ian T
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Posted: 31st Dec 2004 07:05
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Quote: "But he's only human and there are only so many hours in the night (when Lee seems to work!!?)"


You should've seen the chart Rich posted back in the DBDN days of Lee's working hours based on his diary entires-- hilarious because it was true

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jrowe
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Posted: 31st Dec 2004 08:01 Edited at: 31st Dec 2004 08:12
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Since DOT3 bump mapping was in bold i knocked up an example of how it doesn't work, with blend mode 24 you can see the textured and bump mapped object is too dark, which I think is due to it wiping the diffuse map with a plain black texture. If you change it to blend mode 20 (the other bump mapping mode), you'll find it wipes the diffuse map completely. I can supply media if you really want some to test.
"diffmap.bmp" is the diffuse map or base texture.
"lightmap2.bmp" is the greyscale bump map.





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