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Bug Reports / Upgrade 5.9 Beta 3

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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2005 00:33
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Quote: "The way I interpret things is that Sparky's collision is becoming the official collision system, and it's coming very soon."


I know and am very excited about that. The problem is that "soon" is hardly ever soon with DBP. And "very" and "soon" never go together. But I have been waiting since 2003 for collision to be fixed, so I guess I can wait a bit more. The problem is that with each update it is supposed to be fixed and gets worse, and it alwas turns into "next upgrade". Maybe sparky can release his dll if it takes TGC too long.

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BatVink
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2005 01:11
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I have to agree, Collision should be a priority for a games programming language. I've been down the DB Pro route, moved to NGC and been disappointed with V3, and now seem to be in limbo.

Let's hope the reasoning behind the confusion at the moment is as Mike says. Moving on to implementing stable functionality in some key areas.

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Paul Johnston
TGC Developer
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2005 18:23
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Ok, here's what's happening. Mike has been kept busy with other things leaving the next update until "1-2 weeks" which should include the new collision code and will be relesaed with the next newsletter.

I'm going to take this time to finalise one aspect of the new code that is currently unfinished, which is using the optimized complexObject data to improve polygon collision speed. The theory being that testing between two complexObjects should provide a realistic method for realtime polygon-polygon collision. I can't promise anything, but I've got time to give it a go.
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Duffer
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2005 21:01
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@ Sparky,

Is that U5.9 now/mon and u6 in 1-2 weeks?
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Paul Johnston
TGC Developer
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2005 21:47
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5.9 beta 3 will stand as the final 5.9

The next update in 1-2 weeks will be 5.10, including new collision, and a few bug fixes

u6 will be out later this year and will include shader fixes, compiler fixes and any other bugs, but there are unlikely to be a lot of new commands that I think many people are hoping for.
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IBOL
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2005 22:05
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no new commands
just fix bugs

Starlord Omega: SCI-FI 4X TBS
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=61670&b=8
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Duffer
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2005 22:14
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@ Sparky,

Thanks for clarifying... will wait for u5.10 then before upgrading...

Will (up to u.5.10) existing command set be fully documented in help in u5.10 or will that be slated in for u6 also?
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Paul Johnston
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Posted: 23rd Oct 2005 22:21
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not in 5.10, documentation will come after
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Duffer
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Posted: 24th Oct 2005 01:06
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@ Sparky,

Thanks again.... good to see from Mike that u5.9 onwards will have the nodetree optimization for faster 3d object display - any ideas how much faster it drives 3d frames per sec?
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 24th Oct 2005 07:58
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Why not just leave the update in 1 to 2 weeks as 5.9 final or beta 4 and say that 5.9 has been unavoidably delayed for a couple of weeks? Instead of making it look like we are left out in the rain, without an umbrella, a flat tire, and no jack.

Even still thanks for the explaination Sparky it is much appreciated.

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BULLSHOCK 2
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Posted: 24th Oct 2005 11:15
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so wait...does raven work for tgc??

yes or no answer...

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OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 24th Oct 2005 11:26
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The answer to that question could be construde as a positive result. In generalisitic terms at any rate.

Come to the third DarkBasic Pro Sci Fi Con - Be there and be square
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Etienne
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Posted: 24th Oct 2005 11:56
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that means maybe

Let's go on with this .
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MiR
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Posted: 24th Oct 2005 17:52 Edited at: 24th Oct 2005 17:53
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umm So where does this leave DGDK? Do we get 1.2 in a few weeks at the same time as v5.10?

My signature has been erased by me because it's LARGE.
Thank you for the votez!1!
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mathfly
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Posted: 24th Oct 2005 19:22
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5.9 5.10 5.123 5.... 6.0 6.1 how can we plan something . new commands remove commands no help file. i very loosed
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Jimmy
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Posted: 24th Oct 2005 20:10
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Quote: "so wait...does raven work for tgc??

yes or no answer...
"


This is a rather important question, you guys. A lot of "things" hang in the "balance."


Bloggy
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BULLSHOCK 2
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Posted: 24th Oct 2005 21:55 Edited at: 24th Oct 2005 21:56
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ya...i agree...i want to listen to him if he does...but if he doesnt...then its like batvink says...


[edit]

no offence to anybody...but the last part of my post said "yes or no answer" because i knew i would get replys like this...

oh well...

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BatVink
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Posted: 24th Oct 2005 22:01 Edited at: 24th Oct 2005 22:26
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Quote: "so wait...does raven work for tgc??"


Quote: "This is a rather important question, you guys. A lot of "things" hang in the "balance.""


How do you define "work"? To me "working for someone" means being on the payroll, getting a regular salary and various other statutory entitlements.

If you use that definition, the answer is no.

My guess is also that Raven's view on any situation is very different from anybody else's. I present the unicode argument from a few weeks ago as evidence.

Call me harsh, but I can't ignore it any more. It would be an injustice to myself and the rest of humankind to carry on brushing it under the carpet. Especially when he's telling new users he's busy putting U5.9 together. Where I come from, that's disrespect for the hard working people who are doing the work.

By the way, Raven, it's Monday. Where's the newsletter and your Xbox Controller add-on? Oh, and your Milkshape exporter is a week overdue, you promised it for the 17th. I guess that means your Maya exporter is also on hold for now?

_____________________________________________________________

OK, it's time to draw a line under my rant. I admit I'm probably out of order and for that I apologise to the community. In my defence, I received a mail from Raven that got me started on this. Further to my defence, and just to acknowledge that this is actually on topic, here's a summary of what Raven has told us in this exact thread, enjoy...

Quote: "Hopefully I would like to work with Mike over the comming weeks to develop a Collision & Dynamics Body Extension(s) to the DBO Format.

++++++++++++++++++++++

Need to do some testing of things tonight, but the plan is to send Mike the new ODE (Open Source), Milkshape 3D Plug-In (Open Source), and DBO SDK tomorrow morning.

++++++++++++++++++++++

I'll have time after that to tie in the current ODE Beta 1 (which works here) with the DBP Collision System ready for the morning release (god knows if it's Beta 4 or Candidate 2) of 5.9

++++++++++++++++++++++

Update 5.9 Release is currently planned for sometime this week; most likely the later half

++++++++++++++++++++++

Could see about upgrading the manual

++++++++++++++++++++++

Yeah, I know. If I have time, I'll be throwing together some basic documents just to cover new functions

++++++++++++++++++++++

the plan is to ship Update 6.0 Beta Build 601 at the end of the month. With it will be documentation and examples for *ALL* functions not currently getting this treatment

++++++++++++++++++++++

5.9 will be released Friday (definate) and Monday (officially)

++++++++++++++++++++++

At times you get the feeling that it's like the company is like an uncoordinated Donkey
(Nice going Raven!!!!)
++++++++++++++++++++++

Technically the only thing really waiting for the 5.9 release is, well for it to be released

++++++++++++++++++++++

I should be working on ODE and the "other" thing right now

++++++++++++++++++++++

Ravey is stil jealous I got his old job

++++++++++++++++++++++

from what I knew the Update was due out today. It's what we had agreed upon

++++++++++++++++++++++

before it's officially released with the newsletter Monday

++++++++++++++++++++++

it would've made more sense for him to have been working on some the things I was (programming wise) and had me sort out the model pack

++++++++++++++++++++++

"


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BULLSHOCK 2
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Posted: 24th Oct 2005 23:09
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ya...and how much of that has come true raven?

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Zone Chicken
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Posted: 25th Oct 2005 00:19
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Quote: "At times you get the feeling that it's like the company is like an uncoordinated Donkey"


Quote: "Ravey is still jealous I got his old job"


My personal favorites, if i worked for a company i wouldn't make posts like that as they could be received as negative in the eye's of others. (imo)

I haven't been around here long but i have looked at some older threads on this site and doesn't raven have a track record for this sort of thing?

(nothing against raven just something i have noticed looking around)

Your signature has been erased by a mod -- please resize to under 600x120...
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spooky
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Posted: 25th Oct 2005 00:28
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but then, if Raven was telling the odd fib about helping out Mike (perish the thought) then why hasn't Mike posted to say Raven's a lying git?

If Raven was working for TGC then his forum status would not be 'user', surely, but something like 'TGC developer' and he will be announced as the newest employee of TGC (*shudder*)

It's all so confusing and maybe we should just ignore it all.

BUT WE CAN'T!!!

Raven is constantly posting how he is making 5.9 better and maybe, just maybe, he is. But then again, his track record says something else.

Hopefully Mike will post the definative answer, with no double meanings, to satisfy all our curiosities...

Boo!
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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 25th Oct 2005 01:26
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I think Raven just isn't good at keeping information until it is proper to release it. Note his email addy "robert@thegamecreators.com", so he must be helping them in some way. I think he is told something and then it changes shortly after/at the same time as his posts (which is why they didn't post it). It is always best to keep quiet until things are official for the most part.

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BatVink
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Posted: 25th Oct 2005 01:29
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There are other people doing exactly the same task as Raven, and for much longer, but as you can see, they are inconspicuous.

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BULLSHOCK 2
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Posted: 25th Oct 2005 02:22
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Quote: "It is always best to keep quiet until things are official for the most part."


but if raven does work for them, then shouldent what he says be "official"?

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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 25th Oct 2005 05:20
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Not if he is just helping them and was told what was planned to happen. Any coder knows that what is planned to happen (timeframe wise), rarely happens.

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David iz cool
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Posted: 25th Oct 2005 06:10
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when is 5.9 going to be official?? im waiting for it to be out of testing before i dl it.
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Mike Johnson
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Posted: 25th Oct 2005 10:13
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Raven is working for us in support mail.
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John Y
Synergy Editor Developer
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Posted: 25th Oct 2005 10:27
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Which means no contracts, or official affiliation. He probably asked Rich for an email address to redirect to his own.


Http://synergyide.thegamecreators.com
http://www.digitalzenith.net
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Torrey
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Posted: 25th Oct 2005 12:00
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I think his answering support emails was a tactic used by TGC to get him to slow down on the replies that he generates on these forums. Before his status became known, he was replying to nearly every post made.


Check out my site!
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mathfly
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Posted: 25th Oct 2005 15:34
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escuse me! but it's Upgrade 5.9 Beta 3 post or a talk about raven post.
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Etienne
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Posted: 25th Oct 2005 18:41
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raven is our .. erm ... "elevator song"

Let's go on with this .
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Zero #43
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Posted: 25th Oct 2005 19:05
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this is driving me insane, i still cant run the fpsc source. i got the upgrade and the extra's is there a certain place i have to put the extra's?? or what arent i doing right? i got the upgrade and the extras, shouldnt it work now??

Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor w/ HT Technology 3.4GHz 800MHz FSB w/ 512KB Cache, 1GB DDR PC-2700 at 333MHz - 1x1024 SO-DIMM, ATI RADEON™ 9550 256MB DDR(<<soon ), 80GB Hard Drive

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Dimension
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Posted: 25th Oct 2005 21:00
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I have not read every post to this forum but i think that means you havn't installed the library for that program(you put it in the plugin folder) plus there might be a plugin for the root folder.
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BatVink
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Posted: 25th Oct 2005 23:18
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Zero #43, you need to have bought the enhancements pack, and downloaded the latest version from your order details.

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Jimmy
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Posted: 26th Oct 2005 00:24
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Sorry to keep it on the subject of Raven, but what I think is happening, is that now that he is "on staff" as a user supportist (an extremely arrogant one at that), he is in contact with Mike, Lee, Rich and the others and volunteering his coding services.

For example:

Raven: Liek, Meik, I hav use ODE like a lot an if u want i can code this part an juss email it 2 u!!!

Mike: Um... ok, sure.

Because, why not, right? He's willing to do it for free, let the little birdy stumble as he takes his first attempts at flight. I just hope they aren't depending on him too much, because that'll slow production big time and set the bomb off in my adult diaper.


Bloggy
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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 26th Oct 2005 00:52
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@Zero #43:

Send me your code for FPSC and I will test it to see the differences. I am having no trouble at all compiling the code.

monkeyhumpingelephant [at] cellbloc.com

-This...is my boomstick!
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SoftMotion3D
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Posted: 26th Oct 2005 03:18
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What is ode? is that another collision detection dll?

I just reciently got nuclear glory.....which one is better? I havent realy used the ng yet but the examples they had looked like they fixed all the problems i was having with collision.

blah.... ok just read some of the upper posts and see ode was partly covered. What all does ode offer?
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BatVink
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Posted: 26th Oct 2005 10:56
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ODE is physics. So it does lots of nice things like gravity, friction, pushing, shoving and throwing stuff around realistically. And as a by-product, you get collision that you could potentially use instead of standard collision.

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Philip
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Posted: 26th Oct 2005 15:07
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Guys, please can we try and turn this thread away from Raven-bashing and focus it back 100% on the latest DBPro update.

To my mind, if Raven has been misrepresenting his assignment from TGC, and I stress "if" (I have no view on this either way), then this is a matter between Raven and TGC.

Ta

Philip

Cheer if you like bears! Cheer if you like jam sandwiches!
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BatVink
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Posted: 26th Oct 2005 17:33 Edited at: 26th Oct 2005 17:34
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Philip, in all fairness to everyone here, including TGC, it's all relevant.

People are disillusioned by U5.9, as you can see by some of the comments. But their expectations were set way beyond the upgrade. Realistically, U5.9 has achieved a lot, and in true TGC style has added even more commands. I'm a happy camper, I'm already using some of these and my project has come on greatly due to them.

If you want to discuss the upgrade, the first thing you need to do is look back and see where a particular snippet of information came from.
I feel for Lost In thought, he was promised a new collision system in this upgrade. But look back, it wasn't TGC that promised it.
I have had to rewrite part of October's tutorial because it included something that was going to be fixed by mid October. Again, in hindsight I see that it wasn't actually TGC that said it.

My advice would be to look at the list in the beta 1 thread. That contains the most accurate representation of U5.9 and what it set out to do. Based on that list, I'm happy and everyone else probably is too. Collision, the biggest outstanding issue is coming soon, and that came from a more reliable source.

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Etienne
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Posted: 26th Oct 2005 20:11
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@Batvonk

are you admin or ? you remind me of the guy who starts the claps in movies .

@tgc

what are we exactly waiting for ? the name to be renamed from beta to standard or things getting fixed ? will anyone include the community help files ?

@all

Does anyone have a good music for the delay ? like ... rumba or something . or do you guys wanna debate on Raven ? who is really so interessting really ..

Let's go on with this .
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David R
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Posted: 26th Oct 2005 20:27
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I asked earlier, but got no reply, but I'll try again

Is the strange glitchy icon problem fixed in beta 3 or not?

(Add a new icon via the editor, and you still get stuck with the FPSC one on your exe when you compile.)

Quote: ""Don't tell him your name Pike!"
"
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BatVink
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Posted: 26th Oct 2005 20:47 Edited at: 26th Oct 2005 20:54
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It's no longer the FPSC icon, but I don't know if you can add your own.


Quote: "are you admin or ? you remind me of the guy who starts the claps in movies "

I am the guy who starts the claps in movies. I also do Boos, Cheers and cute "Awww"s. Avaialble for weddings, funerals and Bring Your Pets to Work days.

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Etienne
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Posted: 26th Oct 2005 21:37 Edited at: 26th Oct 2005 21:41
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"some prefer beeing jokers than aces"
batman settled it

hmmmm i think we could sum the bugs in here , in order to have a good preview of what's to come for those who missed last episodes :

-Cloned objects revert UV coords to original
-Stopped a possible crash with "sprite collision" not checking for existence of both sprites
-teexture and alpha blending bug in 5.9b3

is there more lacks of things ? features that are unfeatured ? i recall the 3DS files were not loading , i recall we have been said to have bsp working ... what's missing in the puzzle you guys know a link to a list of some sort ? (except stickies please)

Let's go on with this .
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BatVink
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Posted: 26th Oct 2005 22:15
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You could add the enhancements pack. Some commands, such as the Voice Commands, have been broken.

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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 26th Oct 2005 22:38
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On a more cheerful note, Sparky is doing a wonderful job on the collision system. It should be awesome when at release status. I have noticed alot of flaws (wasted updates to make it more user friendlybut slower) in the NGC include file while looking at Sparky's collision system, I may update the NGC include file and see how much faster it runs. Once the new DBP collision system is released

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Philip
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Posted: 27th Oct 2005 01:22
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@BatVink

I take your point. However, forum regulars should obviously approach the pronouncements of any of the particularly notorious members of the community with more than a pinch of salt. The issue is really only a problem for newcomers who do not yet know who has credibility and who hasn't. All they have to do is ask and someone will put them right.

As for v5.9, my policy is always to wait until a release is stable and is generally given the thumbs up by the community before updating. With my project at such an advanced stage, I can't afford to beta test a DBPro upgrade. I wish I could, but I can't. When Entropy comes out, then I'll play more of a hand.

I would note that Mike is putting an awful lot of time into DBPro development and we have lots of great things on their way. I'm particularly looking forward to the Physics dll.

Cheer if you like bears! Cheer if you like jam sandwiches!
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BatVink
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Posted: 27th Oct 2005 03:07 Edited at: 27th Oct 2005 03:08
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Quote: "As for v5.9, my policy is always to wait until a release is stable"


I copy my compiler directory to a safe place (behind the recycled jam jars perhaps), then install. Because the upgrade only replaces (and adds)files, you can easily go back to the previous release if you have the need by copying the old directory back.

It's also worth copying the keywords directory if you're adding new command inis. Otherwise you get beautifully highlighted syntax for commands you don't have.

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BealziBob
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Posted: 27th Oct 2005 03:44 Edited at: 27th Oct 2005 03:59
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I'm afraid to admit that I too was particularly worried that such a non-productive yet "big" talking ex-blizzard employee would be associated with TGC, especially after their name was omitted from the desert combat mod on which they worked so hard.

Seriously, I was truly dismayed to see TGC apparently accept association with someone who has never actually delivered any code or examples despite their alleged technical knowledge. The person in question is quite happy to spout (often apocryphal) technical details to pick others work to pieces, yet in all the years I have visited these forums (don't be fooled by my join date I was here in the DBC days) has never actually posted any useful examples when asked for them.

As a business move, I would be very wary of associating my company with such an unreliable and seemingly egotistical personality and am quite shocked that TGC are willing to do so. Don't get me wrong, I myself am far from an expert coder, and merely mess about with DBPro in my spare time (as do the majority of DBPro users), but if TGC was my business, I wouldn't touch such a person with a bargepole, based purely on their reputation and attitude. Regardless of his skills, putting such an abrasive personality in charge of customer support is cause for concern.

Hopefully I am very very wrong, and the person in question will prove me so. I am sure time will tell.

As for the issue of DBPro, is appears as though 5.9 is a bit of a non-starter in terms of official release. I'd like to know what is actually going on from the horses mouth. No disrespect to the doubtlessly busy Mike, but his Journal has not been updated for about a month and his forum posts have been very brief.

Lets have a full rundown on the whole DBPro upgrade situation please Mike, rather than having to read second hand rumors from people who we don't know that we can trust.


Just a casual observer.
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Duffer
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Posted: 27th Oct 2005 19:26
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@ Beelzibob,

I second that...
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