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Bug Reports / Upgrade 5.9 Beta 3

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Kenjar
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Posted: 12th Oct 2005 22:53 Edited at: 13th Oct 2005 00:05
(ignore this post)


Run before you can walk, always raise the stakes higher, always keep moving, because you never know who's catching up.
OSX Using Happy Dude
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Posted: 12th Oct 2005 23:04
Well, why dont you see the post Ian has made about it...

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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 12th Oct 2005 23:51
Did you "Right Click" and choose "Open With" and choose the DBPro and at the bottom of the window choose "Always open with this type of Application"?

-This...is my boomstick!
BatVink
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Posted: 12th Oct 2005 23:57
Quote: "I might have missed something here but why not forget the collision commands and have ODE handling collision? "


If you MOVE OBJECT with an object loaded into the ODE "module", it has a fit, can't handle it. So you would have to rewrite all of your code to work with ODE. There aren't enough basic ODE commands to do this yet.

Kenjar
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Posted: 13th Oct 2005 00:06 Edited at: 13th Oct 2005 00:07
Yes I did, I should have remembered that there is a launcher app and a DBPro app before I wrote my last post (which I've removed now) and yes I did associate it with the DBPro option rather then the launcher, still doesn't work which is weird. I also uninstalled and reinstalled DB Pro then the patch but it still does the same thing no matter which it's been associated with.


Run before you can walk, always raise the stakes higher, always keep moving, because you never know who's catching up.
BatVink
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Posted: 13th Oct 2005 00:25 Edited at: 13th Oct 2005 00:50
Quote: "New bitmap function "set bitmap format" to let you control the format of a bitmap, this is useful for saving alpha data for instance, takes one parameter, -1 will default to normal format, other values refer to D3DFORMAT structure e.g. use format 21 for A8R8G8B8"


Any pointers on how to start with a transparent bitmap? I understand I need to SET BITMAP FORMAT 21. But this gives me a black bitmap, fully opaque.

[EDIT]

Tried various workarounds, including creating a memblock, setting the alpha, then writing back to a bitmap. From what I can gather, even a bitmap without transparency is 32-bit, the alpha is simply marked as "X" for not available. So making a bitmap from memblock will have everything in place, and setting the format will enable this channel, which is now transparent.



Philip
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Posted: 13th Oct 2005 01:09
@Wolf

I saw that you were proposing to make further additions to EZrotate.

One v. useful command to include would be a command that returns the screen X and screen Y of a XYZ point in 3d space.

Philip

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Raven
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Posted: 13th Oct 2005 01:40
Quote: "If you MOVE OBJECT with an object loaded into the ODE "module", it has a fit, can't handle it. So you would have to rewrite all of your code to work with ODE. There aren't enough basic ODE commands to do this yet."


Aye this is true, but if the Collision was integrated like this. Then what could be done is entirely replace the current movement commands with ODE / Physics.

Force them to do the work, thus allowing the upgrade to a physica based world almost like flipping a switch.

The problem being that ODE and the Physics Plug-in work very differently. So really there would need to be a more common system.

Lost in Thought
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Posted: 13th Oct 2005 01:45
I think someone should come up with some physics conversion commands (sort of like EZRotate does rotations). Say if you wanted to move an object with certain properties 5 units in one time stamp. It could tell you what values to enter into the physics system to achieve this.

zircher
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Posted: 13th Oct 2005 03:11
In Newton, there's a set matrix command that will allow you to translate/move objects. Does ODE have a similar function?
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Raven
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Posted: 13th Oct 2005 05:04
ODE Set Body Position nBody, fX, fY, fZ
ODE Set Body Rotation nBody, fX, fY, fZ

While moving the object doesn't affect the ODE Collision Body, moving the Collision Body does affect the Object.
The current version doesn't support a number of advanced things that are being added (now I've got 2005 compiling sort-of happily with ODE).

Things like Body Groups, Joints, Joint Groups, etc. You're really looking at just far more overall control, so using the build-in collision quite simply is going to be pointless.

Hopefully I would like to work with Mike over the comming weeks to develop a Collision & Dynamics Body Extension(s) to the DBO Format.

Currently the format already provides you with some more advanced features like build-in Shaders (although not sure if the program implimentation has been added yet).. So it's really expanding quite rapidly.

Although a fear I have is with this rapid expansion developers are going to shy away. For my Milkshape 3D Plug-In, I quickly discovered that the format itself while now complete (so to speak) is a pain in the arse to develop around the system Mike has in place which quite frankly forces you to touch with the low-level interaction.

So I've been spending (unfortunately very little since Tuesday) time writing an SDK that makes the data interaction just far easier.
Simply so that it's not a pain in the arse to access.

The SDK is now happily capable of doing most things like optimisation indexing, triangle index ordering, etc.
So it's working much more similar to a Mesh Memblock.

I'm trying to make it so that developers will find it capable of import / export code within minutes rather than hours. Especially making it obvious what does what without needing any complex manual explainations.

Kohaku
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Posted: 13th Oct 2005 08:00 Edited at: 13th Oct 2005 08:09
Quote: "ODE Set Body Position nBody, fX, fY, fZ"


Apparently that command exists only in another dimension. I imagine that it would be handy though.

On another note, just installed this upgrade, and it's lovely. Cheers.

Oh and I got this far with some b0rked move object and rotation commands before going to get some food.



You are not alone.
Lost in Thought
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Posted: 13th Oct 2005 11:35 Edited at: 13th Oct 2005 11:41
Quote: "ODE Set Body Position nBody, fX, fY, fZ"


The sooner you can get that in the better. I can then probably get an easy to follow example out.

BatVink
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Posted: 13th Oct 2005 12:12
Quote: "Say if you wanted to move an object with certain properties 5 units in one time stamp. It could tell you what values to enter into the physics system to achieve this."


Quote: "ODE Set Body Position nBody, fX, fY, fZ"


There's the theoretical solution, and the answer to that solution.

Unfortunately the command doesn't exist in the plugin, even though it does exist in ODE.

Personally, I think this is the number one priority physics command that should be part of U5.9 final. Without it, ODE is severely limited, almost to the point of being unusable.

Lost in Thought
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Posted: 13th Oct 2005 12:26
If ODE is updated after 5.9 final comes out and before U6 comes out. Is there a way we could get an update just for ODE or would we have to wait until U6?

BatVink
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Posted: 13th Oct 2005 12:59 Edited at: 13th Oct 2005 14:02
M3 L33t HaX0r!

OK...I managed to add ODE SET BODY POSITION to the ODE plugin. The code is already in there...



I'm not a C++ coder, but I get the idea. So, I used ResHacker to add the command to the String Table...

77, "ODE SET BODY POSITION%LFFF%?ODE_SetBodyPosition@@YAXHMMM@Z"

I've attached this version to this entry. It still runs(!) and doesn't crash. I then used the command, and it still ran! But...it did nothing whatsoever. You can run the code below using my version of the DLL. There is a Red block, bottom row, near the middle. It's brighter than the rest. I moved it closer to the camera, up and to the right using my new command...nothing.

Thinking it may be that it's moved in ODE but not DB Pro, I ran the code and watched carefully. It actually interacts perfectly, suggesting that it hasn't moved anywhere in ODE either, otherwise it would act strangely.



[EDIT]

The function dBodySetPosition ( pBody->dBodyID, fX, fY, fZ ); is used wherever a new body is created, so I don't understand the problem
It's quite possible that the code cannot find the ODE body, and returns without doing anything, and no error occurs. But that doesn't make sense, I know the body is created, and I could push it around to prove it.

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Ron Erickson
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Posted: 13th Oct 2005 15:07
Quote: "@Wolf

I saw that you were proposing to make further additions to EZrotate.

One v. useful command to include would be a command that returns the screen X and screen Y of a XYZ point in 3d space.

Philip"


Philip,
I'll see what I can do. It will be difficult to have something work correctly for all situations. There are so many different possibilities with split-screen, FOV angles, and resolution. I'll see if I get time to take a stab at it. I don't want to pull too much more time away from EZactor

EZrotate!
TextureMax!
EZactor!
Raven
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Posted: 13th Oct 2005 17:06
lol, well that'll teach me not to look at the version released.
the function is part of the version I'm currently using, and works as you'd expect.

Oh this reminds me.

The Nerd
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Posted: 13th Oct 2005 17:24
I'm not sure. But Mike said that this maybe was the final version. But there still stands BETA so i'm not sure if this is the full installer.
Else i'll just gonna wait on that to arrive

-The Nerd

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BatVink
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Posted: 13th Oct 2005 18:10
Quote: "the function is part of the version I'm currently using, and works as you'd expect."


Doesn't work for me...the object stays where it was when it was created. I've even wrapped the movement command with ODE UPDATEs, but it makes no difference. It's well and truly planted.

Maybe you could try my code above and see if it's the way I've done it that is wrong?

Raven
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Posted: 13th Oct 2005 18:22 Edited at: 13th Oct 2005 18:29
Mike will be working on some more bug fixes today, and the plan is to release Tommorrow provided there are no more major issues.

Collision *will not* be corrected right now. This is because if that was started, your looking at a week *at least* to correct all of the issues.

So the plan now is to move this and work on it properly. Rather than rushing the collision correction, it will now become a fairly major and strictly focused on issue that is going to be tackled first for Update 6.0. (which starts work next week)

Update 6.0 the focus is going to be almost exclusively on:
Compiler, Collision, and Shaders

Sticking to these areas and focusing on one at a time, should mean they get the full attention they require. So it is a little exciting going on to the "legendary" 6.0 Update, and knowing that by the end of this next update all of the more major niggles people have with the language will definately have one hell of a going over with the result being hopefully... this will finally provide everyone with the language definition, and functionality that you expected in the first place conserning these major features.

Well keep providing bug reports.

[edit]
Quote: "Doesn't work for me...the object stays where it was when it was created. I've even wrapped the movement command with ODE UPDATEs, but it makes no difference. It's well and truly planted.

Maybe you could try my code above and see if it's the way I've done it that is wrong?"


Yeah there is nothing wrong with what you've done, per'say. I forget that there are some quite major differences between the ODE Beta 1 and the 2005 Beta 1 I have.

Need to do some testing of things tonight, but the plan is to send Mike the new ODE (Open Source), Milkshape 3D Plug-In (Open Source), and DBO SDK tomorrow morning.
Going to be doing an all-nighter to test them.

I'll be following up over the weekend with some corrections if needed.

re faze
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Posted: 13th Oct 2005 20:44
and your sure you dont secretly work for tgc

you dont beat the system. the system beats you.
Raven
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Posted: 13th Oct 2005 21:10
pretty sure, unless someone has neglected to tell me something.

Yyrd
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 13:52
Seems to me all poeple talk about is the ODE. why don't anybody talk about the mutliplayerplus? Seem to me , only so many game types will use ODE, and multiplayer is a more widely needed tool. But all poeple talk about is; ODE ODE ODE. so the effect will be TGC will push ODE, leaveing multiplayer-plus as a afterthuoght.
The main reason i parked dBp was becuase of the old multiplayer functions( or lack of ), i came back when i seen they started to work on it again. Is TGC working on Multiplayer still? am i the only person who cares?
Mike Johnson
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 14:17
Multiplayer is still important to us. Again something for me to look at after this upgrade is complete.
BatVink
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 14:19
Feel free to talk about multiplayer, nobody stopped you!

Yes, I'm pushing ODE. But then again, I've written examples, posted them for people to experiment with and shared my experiences too. If you want to talk about multiplayer, do the same and I'm sure you'll find some interested people.

Yyrd
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 16:28
Quote: "Feel free to talk about multiplayer, nobody stopped you"


i have done this. In fact i just started this thread. i understand TGC have so many man hours, so ducuments can wait, therefore i started a thread for us Noobs to sefve domument the mutliplayer commands.

i think one of you ODE folks shuold make a thread like i did.


I'm sure my info is full of errors, but hence the needs for the thread. do review athttp://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=62819&b=1

btw im humbled i got a reply from Mike Johnson himsefve.
re faze
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 17:01
i think there is one already.....

you dont beat the system. the system beats you.
BatVink
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 17:34
Quote: "i think one of you ODE folks shuold make a thread like i did."


http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=62156&b=1
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=62869&b=1
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=62225&b=1

The stuff we've talked about in this thread is relevant to getting a functional, working version of the DLL.

Raven
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 19:08
tbh I've never found anything wrong with the Standard Multiplayer Commands.

So most of the complaints about it I chalk up to people quite simply not knowing what they're doing; and not willing to accept that this isn't quite as simple a subject as they'd hope.

Same goes for the Shader System. While sute the system might need some teaking, and more advanced features are currently MIA, for the most part it works just find as long as you know what your doing.

Yyrd
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 20:01
news ones are much faster, and more commands then before.

i like em.
Kenjar
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Posted: 14th Oct 2005 22:38 Edited at: 14th Oct 2005 23:00
In reguards to shader system's, it would be nice if DB Pro supported scripts produced by ATI's and nVidia's shader software, I know it's not strickly speaking MS, but their shader systems work great in C with some very impressive results, admittedly when I achived this it was with 3rd party source code but it was a good demostration of what can be done with nVidia's composer software. I think nVidia's 5000 series and 6000 series, seeing as they are quite old cards now, should have their full potential availible in DB Pro, but this is more of a "wish" then anything to do with the new beta.

The problem with multiplayer, is that yes, it's a fairly complicated buisness. But DarkBASIC is sold as "an easy to use" programming langauge that you don't have to be a genius to use. So of cause, when people see under the "features" list, "Multiplayer (Lan and Internet)" people naturally assume, espically since they've downloaded the demo version, and have indeed been able, without much effort to load and control a 3D model, add music, sounds effects and within a couple of weeks produced their first game of space invaders. That all the other features listed on the back of the box, are easy to grasp, and simple to put into operation.

If the language had been sold, more akin to Visual BASIC, or Delphi then DB Pro would have pulled in a more serious minded type of person who would make sure that he or she understands the language fully before complaining. As it is, the language pulls in anyone from the age of 12 up to 40 who are interested in just making games, and have either failed to grasp pascal, C, java or python, or simply don't have any interest in learning pascal, C, java or python and are looking for a quick fix. DB Pro does have a way of building up someone's confidence then sending the person crashing back down to earth.


Run before you can walk, always raise the stakes higher, always keep moving, because you never know who's catching up.
Darkbasic MADPSP
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Posted: 15th Oct 2005 20:20
Where do i extract the addons pack?

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Kenjar
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Posted: 15th Oct 2005 22:42
Hows the dbo milkshape exporter comming along Raven?


Run before you can walk, always raise the stakes higher, always keep moving, because you never know who's catching up.
Darkbasic MADPSP
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Posted: 16th Oct 2005 15:15
WHERE DO I EXTRACT THAT ADD ON ZIP FILE TO?!?!!!

Please

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zircher
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Posted: 16th Oct 2005 19:26
Where ever you want, buckwheat. I use the dbpro\projects folder myself. Your mileage may vary.
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IBOL
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Posted: 16th Oct 2005 19:59
is this still being worked on?
are we going to get 5.9 final?
confused & curious,
bob

Mike Johnson
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Posted: 16th Oct 2005 20:03
Got a little delayed with sorting other things out last week. Will be back on the case with DB Pro and this upgrade in the next few days.
Raven
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Posted: 16th Oct 2005 20:10
Quote: "Hows the dbo milkshape exporter comming along Raven?"


Quite nicely actually.
It exports and imports static models perfectly now (although I took a break over the week to sort out ODE which is totally broken right now )

I'm currently working out kinks with Bones and Animation, but on the whole the beta should be up sometime in the small hours of the morning.

Hopefully, I'll have time after that to tie in the current ODE Beta 1 (which works here) with the DBP Collision System ready for the morning release (god knows if it's Beta 4 or Candidate 2) of 5.9

Technically speaking I need to figure out why the hell models do that body explosion thing... where if they're in a position where the collision can't rest they build up thier reaction until BOOM they launch. Need to make sure that stuff like that doesn't happen but that means editing ODE itself.

You'll find that 6.0 will feature a heavily modified ODE itself.
I need to finish everything next week, as the week after I won't have direct internet access. So I'll have to basically have connection to the forum and online community from my dad's place. So hopefully we can figure out the current ODE bug with VC 2005 before then.

Well we'll see what happens. All should be good for Milkshape tommorrow morning, and Maya will also be done later in the week... unless I get the urge to do some Milkshape updates (creation wise).

Darkbasic MADPSP
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Posted: 16th Oct 2005 23:19
yay full thing soon

Etienne
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Posted: 17th Oct 2005 05:26
yep

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Raven
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Posted: 17th Oct 2005 22:43
If you haven't guessed, no MS Exporter today. Spent it getting ODE to compile.

Although I know the format for DBO better today, it's just a case of having the mental capability to think of how to manage everything. Something just don't have right now. Tired

On the plus side, have ODE compiling again. Not had chance to test it much due to 'other things'. Update 5.9 Release is currently planned for sometime this week; most likely the later half.

Mike hasn't had the time to spend on it due to other things.
There is now a shiney new collision system in-place that works a treat though, graciously donated by one of the forum members.

Things look to be back on track after a crazy weekend.

David R
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Posted: 17th Oct 2005 22:46
2 little questions (and sorry if they've already been mentioned)

1) Has anyone else noticed the problem with the icons? They now default to the FPSC icon. Even if you change your app's icon (in the editor) , it still remains as the FPSC one

2)As a conclusion to Q1#, is this problem fixed in this beta? (Haven't had a chance to check -in a rush!)



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Philip
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Posted: 18th Oct 2005 00:14
I'm going ga-ga about the massive change to the functionality of the object size command. I'm seriously considering chewing my left arm off.

Philip

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re faze
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Posted: 18th Oct 2005 00:28
ditto.

you dont beat the system. the system beats you.
IanM
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What? You're considering chewing Philips left arm off too? I prefer Jam sandwiches myself ...

For free Plug-ins and source code http://www.matrix1.demon.co.uk
re faze
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Posted: 18th Oct 2005 00:46
no i figured id let him get the right and id get the left

you dont beat the system. the system beats you.
Lost in Thought
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Posted: 18th Oct 2005 01:19
Quote: "There is now a shiney new collision system in-place that works a treat though, graciously donated by one of the forum members."


I hope it makes it into 5.9 final

BatVink
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Posted: 18th Oct 2005 01:28
So we really need OBJECT SIZE(), and also SCALED OBJECT SIZE()?

Philip
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Posted: 18th Oct 2005 02:04
We certainly need another command although I don't care what its called. SAVE PHILIP FROM CHEWING OFF HIS LEFT ARM () would be fine.

Philip

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