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Work in Progress / Firewall 2: Second Defense...screenshots and videos

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Person
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Posted: 27th Jun 2006 10:04
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Quote: "Quote: "
Quote: ""Oh, and another unit idea would be a Trojan horse virus, that masquerades as one of your units, until it suddenly blows up! Or something...""

I had the same idea, except I didn't think of making them look like firewall units. I may do that, or I may make them appear as powerups to pick up, then explode on impact. Depends on how other things in the game turn out."

and you could have a virus scanner that can tell you if a power-up is safe or not. and it could take a more powerful scanner to pick up tricker trojans "


also, maybe you could infect powerups so that when a firewall unit uses it, the virus team gets vision of that unit while the powerup lasts
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Hawkeye
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Posted: 27th Jun 2006 16:39
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Pardon me for asking, but how did you get those sexylicious shadows up and running?


I am but mad north north-west; when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw - Hamlet, Hamlet
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Agent Dink
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Posted: 27th Jun 2006 19:11
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The screenies are dark for me, but thats because this monitor is junk. All these shots would look great on my other computer.


[url=http://www.silver-dawn.net]www.Silver-dawn.net[url]
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Diggsey
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Posted: 27th Jun 2006 19:31
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The screens look dark, but in game it doesn't matter because everything is moving and the licht moves so you can see everything - but maybe you should make the screenshots lighter just so that we can see how cool they are

There are three types of people, those that can count and those that can't.
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FoxBlitzz
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Posted: 27th Jun 2006 22:07
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Or you can turn up your monitor's brightness, Diggsey.

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 27th Jun 2006 23:59
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@FoxBlitzz - you beat me to it! The brightness control is your friend

Is there any more news on it - like a playable demo? Or a demo video?

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Mattman
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Posted: 28th Jun 2006 01:56
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Sorry for not responding, I haven't been on the forums lately.

I am so glad you did the bump mapping and hope you are too Sorry for bugging you, keep up the great work!

Why make sense when you could make brownies?
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Xander
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Posted: 28th Jun 2006 08:36
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I'm sorry for the lack of updates, I've been working my butt off at my new job, trying to save up for a car at the end of the summer. Indie game development just doesn't pay the bills, so I'm working at a landscaping place for the summer.

But back to the topic of conversation...

I just finished packing up a beta version for my beta testers, which I will be uploading tomorrow. For the rest of you, I will record some videos tonight so you can at least see some movement, not just more screenshots. Keep in mind that I still haven't gotten around to learning animation, so the virus units with legs just slide around...looks kind of dumb, but don't fret, it will be fixed eventually.

Another bit of good news: so far, the game is very stable. I have had some weird bugs, but I have always managed to fix them. I am hoping that I can carry this trend through the development of the game.

@ Hawkeye: The 2D dropshadows are just pre-rendered and put on plains that use an alpha map. The 3D shadows are just the built in shadow shader, so they are a little slow. I'd like to get some fast ones in some day, but I can't program shaders.

Thanks for the ideas everyone, I appreciate it. I like the back-and-forth advantage battles between the Firewall and Virus units. It would make it quite interesting...

Xander Moser - Bolt Software - Firewall
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Hamish McHaggis
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Posted: 28th Jun 2006 14:24
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Quote: "@FoxBlitzz - you beat me to it! The brightness control is your friend "


There are such things as crappy monitors, the monitor on my other computer isn't very bright even at full brightness. I can understand that that is the reason some people can't see the screenies (and not because they're computer illiterate).

Quote: "The 3D shadows are just the built in shadow shader, so they are a little slow. I'd like to get some fast ones in some day, but I can't program shaders."


Pre U5.something the shadows were super slow as they were done in software, but now there is a flag for hardware shading which speeds them up no end. Or do you mean the new shadow shader is also slow? I found it to be pretty fast personally.


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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 28th Jun 2006 17:52
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I love the darkness of the screenshots - I can see everything perfectly. Then again, I have a very good monitor.


Come see the WIP!
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Xander
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Posted: 28th Jun 2006 23:55
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Well, I have decided to just release my progress of the game to the forum, as I realize that there are no features so far that won't be included in a free demo later on anyway. Please take into account that this is the first beta version that I am releasing, so there are a few rough sections of code still. I don't have as much time as I would like to work on it anymore, otherwise it would be a little bit more polished.

Here is a list of the features and known bugs for this version:
Read this before downloading and playing the demo and telling me what doesn't work!



And the download link (5 MB):
http://www.boltsoftwaregames.com/Firewall2Beta010.rar

There is a prefs.txt file in the Data folder. Open this and modify the values to change the options in the game. All explanations for the options are in the file itself. If you screw it up, you can delete the file and it will make a new one

And here are some videos, although they are almost as large as the demo itself...
http://www.boltsoftwaregames.com/Firewall2-Video5.wmv
http://www.boltsoftwaregames.com/Firewall2-Video6.wmv
http://www.boltsoftwaregames.com/Firewall2-Video7.wmv

So I hope you all appreciate this, and have fun playing around with it.



Quote: "Pre U5.something the shadows were super slow as they were done in software, but now there is a flag for hardware shading which speeds them up no end. Or do you mean the new shadow shader is also slow? I found it to be pretty fast personally."


I am using U6RC10, and have the hardware flag set to 1. It isn't super slow, but it is a little slow on my laptop with a Radeon 9600 with 32 MB of video ram...I am hoping I might be able to get a shader that just casts a flat shadow on the ground, not one that contours to the surface. Then the player could choose between the shaders to suit their computer's specs.

Xander Moser - Bolt Software - Firewall
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lower logic
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Posted: 29th Jun 2006 06:55 Edited at: 29th Jun 2006 06:56
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Really cool. I love the path finding, models and treads look great close up, and the AI is really smart. I noticed it gave some object error and closed when I windows-keyed out to the desktop and then tried to full-screen the game again.
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FoxBlitzz
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Posted: 29th Jun 2006 07:29
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For me, the demo just kinda sits on a black screen and does nothing.

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greenlig
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Posted: 29th Jun 2006 07:37
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nice! Very smooth looking game Xander!
Am i right in guessing theres no ability to attack other units yet?

I am VERY impressed by this! and look at the file size...Brilliant.

greenlig

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Homey the Clown
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Posted: 29th Jun 2006 23:53 Edited at: 29th Jun 2006 23:53
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yah...as the virus is making mass amount of bases while my guys cant move! it only rotates just a little bit and stops. Other than that, this is a real smooth and cool looking game.

keep it up,
Homey

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 30th Jun 2006 02:31
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WOW! Fantastic! I got trounced... but fantastic! Is that written using DBP?

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lower logic
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Posted: 30th Jun 2006 06:53 Edited at: 30th Jun 2006 06:54
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@ FoxBlitzz, I was thinking the same thing the first time I ran it. It just takes a while to start up. I hope the next beta has a loading screen of some sort.
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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 30th Jun 2006 12:30
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Yeah i was surprised at the loading time. I run a 4400+ X2 (dual core) and a 7800GTX 256Mb so I'm not used to waiting for DBP apps to load! I assume its the map generation that takes the time?

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Xander
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Posted: 1st Jul 2006 08:07 Edited at: 1st Jul 2006 08:18
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Thanks everyone, I'm glad you like it so far.

Loading issue

I forgot to mention the loading issues. The first time that you run the game, it creates the image previews for every single unit and base for the menus. It then saves these on the hard drive for loading the next time. So loading takes a long time the first time, but shouldn't be too bad after that.

Quote: "my guys cant move! it only rotates just a little bit and stops"


I believe that this is the pathfinding issue that I have right now. You may not remember, but I bet that you started near the top half of the map, in th far z direction. This often causes the pathfinding to screw up for some reason. I have yet to figure out why, as I didn't write the pathfinding. I will email IanM when I get the chance.

Also, one more thing I noticed doesn't work yet: multiple AI teams. If you set the number of teams to greater than 2, the other team will build units, but it won't move them. I will fix it soon.

I'm glad you guys found the AI decent. It doesn't cheat at all, the only real advantage it has is that it can build a base as soon as possible, where you have to move to look at your build pads before building on them. I may make a feature where you can tell it to build on the build pad before you capture it, and it will just wait until it can build, then automatically do it.

Quote: "I noticed it gave some object error and closed when I windows-keyed out to the desktop and then tried to full-screen the game again. "


Yes, I noticed this also. I have no idea how to fix it though. Anyone know how?

Quote: "Is that written using DBP?"


Yes, 100% DBP....except for the shaders...

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

One more thing I was wondering though, what is everyone's frame rate like at different resolutions?

[edit]

I just though I'd mention some stuff that is in the game that you could all test if you want.

-Waypoints - You can hold down shift and right click in multiple locations with units selected to tell them to follow a certain path. It is limited to 10 spots at the moment. Should work for both land and flying units

-Groups - Assinging and selecting groups with the standard # and control+# should work. Also, hit and number twice quickly to select that group and move to its position on the map

Oh yeah, and as you may have noticed, there is no AI between units yet. That is my next big goal.

I have finished making a cool chip object for an obstacle, it will be in the next beta

Xander Moser - Bolt Software - Firewall
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FoxBlitzz
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Posted: 1st Jul 2006 09:01 Edited at: 1st Jul 2006 09:01
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Quote: "The first time that you run the game, it creates the image previews for every single unit and base for the menus."


Why not just have the image resources already there before you play the first time?

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Nicholas Thompson
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Posted: 1st Jul 2006 15:51
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Because its a demo hehe

@Fallout: You see my specs above - I get (on average) 60fps. I assumed it was sync limited in some way?

The problem with missing objects when you go to desktop from full screen I think is something to do with DBP, not your program. I prefer to use Windowed mode - why are you using FSEX and not windowed mode? Is it to limit frame rate?

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Hawkeye
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Posted: 1st Jul 2006 15:53
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fsex is the best abreviation ever.


I am but mad north north-west; when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw - Hamlet, Hamlet
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Diggsey
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2006 00:06
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Can't wait to play it
I haven't got time to download right now though

There are three types of people, those that can count and those that can't.
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Alfa x
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2006 02:26
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Hi I'm new to darkbasic.
but I sure like firewall.
I have a question.
with witch software, do you make your objects, and your textures.
I want excellent graphics like yours.
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Green7
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2006 13:15
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@ Xander: i like your game, looks phantastic, keep it on!


@Alfa x: The quality does not depend on what software you use. ists more about your skill. a skilled person can do good textures even on microsoft paint... a program sure does a bit work for you, but only if you know how.
best search yourself a programm you think about you like it and you can buy it, and do learn everything about so you can unlock your full potetial.
best try some demos of software before you buy, some are good, others better.
For textures and graphics at all, gimp is a good solution, and its free. somehow problematic to install, but if it works...
http://www.gimp.org/windows/

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Alfa x
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2006 16:20
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@ Green 7: Thanks a lot.
I will keep an eye in your recomendation.
Do you know some software to make directX objects or 3ds objects
with animation and doesn't cost a lot like 3DS max?
I'm stuck with objects.
I tried using blender, but The object appears incomplete and
the animation in darkbasic appears truncated.
thanks a lot again green 7.
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Green7
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2006 21:03
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try those here:
http://forms.caligari.com/forms/ts3all_free.html
http://wings.sourceforge.net/
http://www.ac3d.org/downloads.html
http://www.swissquake.ch/chumbalum-soft/ms3d/index.html

i'm not sure if one of those fits your needs, myself im using 3ds max, had to save longtime, but it's worth it.

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Hawkeye
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2006 21:52
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Uber cool looking demo, but I couldn't figure out how to build power buildings, with the result of green team took over half the map before I got my first tank up and running. :/ One minor bug - I was trying to click the down arrow on the unit selection thing and it hit the minimap instead and sent me flying up to the top edge of the map.


I am but mad north north-west; when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw - Hamlet, Hamlet
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Xander
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Posted: 4th Jul 2006 23:42
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Thanks for testing it out everyone.

Quote: "Why not just have the image resources already there before you play the first time?"


Because I wanted to make the compressed demo as small as possible. The images are bitmaps to preserve pixel quality, and they take up a lot of space.

Quote: "I prefer to use Windowed mode - why are you using FSEX and not windowed mode? Is it to limit frame rate?"


Uhh...I'm not sure. I thought I read that full screen exclusive was better because it didn't use vertical syncing. Maybe I'll try out windowed, or at least make an option for it.

Quote: "with witch software, do you make your objects, and your textures"


Green7 had great advice, try them out yourself and see what you like. It is about skill, not the program.

Here is a list of the software that I am using:
----------------------------------------------
Milkshape 3D ($25)
LithUnwap (free)
The GIMP (free)
Dark Basic Pro ($90)

I really don't have much money to spend on this right now, so I'd say it's not too shabby considering the software that I'm using to make it.

Quote: "I couldn't figure out how to build power buildings, with the result of green team took over half the map before I got my first tank up and running"


Just click in the build pad to select it, and then click on the power building to build it. I guess I should have included a little bit of instructions.

Quote: "One minor bug - I was trying to click the down arrow on the unit selection thing and it hit the minimap instead and sent me flying up to the top edge of the map."


Ah yes, I must fix that. Thank you.

One thing I forgot to mention: you can use the scrollwheel on the mouse to scroll on the menus as long as your cursor is on the menu

Progress update
----------------------
-I have created a shield base for the Firewall side, all modeled and textured
-I am working on the turret movement, and I have simplified it also for faster code
-I have a great idea for even better unit avoidance, I will impliment it tonight...should be perfect...
-I have added a glare effect to all of the stuff on the map, they look super cool now. I might be able to upload a screenshot tomorrow night if I get time
-I have fixed the multiple AI problem, you can now have as many AI teams as you want, on either side.

Thanks again everyone!

Xander Moser - Bolt Software - Firewall
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FoxBlitzz
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Posted: 5th Jul 2006 06:04
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Quote: "I thought I read that full screen exclusive was better because it didn't use vertical syncing."


Unfortunately, it's the exact opposite. However, FSEX doesn't require the screen image to be scaled up, so you don't get a performance loss like the other fullscreen modes.

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Alfa x
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Posted: 5th Jul 2006 22:26
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thanks a lot!!
I' have to look and study hard.
I'm sure your recomendations are going to be very usuful.
Sure I have to tell you the results.
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The admiral
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Posted: 6th Jul 2006 07:39
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You should make a virus unit that can infect other players units and use them including their powers against them kind of like converting it to your side I guess. Of course you balance it out by making the virus converting unit easier to kill and maybe only able to use its ability every certain amount of time.

The admiral
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Dreamora
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No bugs here beside the already mentioned ones.

But it seems like the generating of data has some small prob at some point. I have a 9700 64MB mobile and had to restart after the first launch as it did not go up further than 8 FPS.

But beside that: works great and looks promising due to the new elements that are even now in this early state added.
Although the "open strategy" possibilities from the old Firewall was something I always appreciated (building bases on any field).
I hope this comes back at some point so it is not restricted to this "war of the rings" like building and "point controlling" sheme, at least in the general usage.
(but I would suggest to keep a such restricted environment for a "control the chips" mode in skirmish / mission / multiplayer )
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Xander
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Posted: 8th Jul 2006 18:01
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Quote: "Unfortunately, it's the exact opposite. However, FSEX doesn't require the screen image to be scaled up, so you don't get a performance loss like the other fullscreen modes.
"


Oh, okay. Thanks a lot for the info. So full screen exclusive uses vertical sync, but using a window stretches the image to get it full screen, because the resolution doesn't match the desktop resolution most likely. I'll read through a few threads about it and figure some stuff out.

Quote: "You should make a virus unit that can infect other players units and use them including their powers against them kind of like converting it to your side I guess. Of course you balance it out by making the virus converting unit easier to kill and maybe only able to use its ability every certain amount of time."


Yeah, I had similar ideas. Not sure how I would impliment them with the system I have right now, but I will keep it in mind, thanks for the idea.

Here is one idea that I have for the viruses: They could have a unit called the "corrupter" that could infect parts of the board. The infected parts would then turn black and would give power ups to the virus units that are on it and remove power from any firewall units that are on it. The viruses could also have a "cleanup" sort of unit that could fix corrupted parts of the board. Just an idea.

Quote: "But it seems like the generating of data has some small prob at some point. I have a 9700 64MB mobile and had to restart after the first launch as it did not go up further than 8 FPS."


Hmm, I never noticed that. Anyone else have that problem?

Quote: "Although the "open strategy" possibilities from the old Firewall was something I always appreciated (building bases on any field).
I hope this comes back at some point so it is not restricted to this "war of the rings" like building and "point controlling" sheme, at least in the general usage."


Yes, you have a good point there. That is why I'm looking into things like corrupting parts of the board. It is just that with a circuit board, things are fixed to it and it is hard to have an open battle field. However, I may have units that you can change into stationary turrets or something similar, so you can set up a small defense post anywhere you like.

I haven't added many new features lately, as I have spent almost all of my time trying to perfect the unit avoidance system. It is much better now, but I'm still working on it. I have fixed the small menu bug, and am working on the turret movement still. Once I get that finished, I will be adding the unit AI, because I can then use my turret movement functions for the turrets on the units also.

Xander Moser - Bolt Software - Firewall
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Dreamora
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So you are slowly approaching the point where the great "boom" effects will start to have their effect? (can't remember any game where I had more fun when one of my units was lost ... especially when I sacrificed it to let 8 enemies explode *hehe*)

FW2 is definitely something I'm looking forward to as it already has a quite good handling now in this early state on which it can build with great game play
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Xander
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Thanks Dreamora, and yes, I am getting closer to the "boom" effects

In the past couple days I have perfected the turret turning functions and have fixed up the unit avoidance routines to my satisfaction.

I have also added in shield and armor functions and graphical displays for all units. I also have graphical effects for the shields, but they aren't superb. Better than Firewall 1 already though. They are even displayed on the build menus so you can see all of your units' shield and armor levels without zooming all over the map. I think that is one unique thing that I have that most RTS games don't.

So my next step is to create the ammo system, and have the turret bases fire ammo at their targets. Then I will upload a new demo as soon as possible.

I do have one question as to whether I should impliment a feature in the game:

For all those of you who have played Star Wars: Empire at War, you should know exactly what I'm talking about. Should I add a menu that comes up when you select units to show exactly which units you currently have selected? From this menu you would be able to click on a single unit to select it, or click on a special ability that any of the selected units has, or just watch all of the shield meters for all of the selected units. The menu would most likely appear along the bottom of the screen, showing approximately a maximum of 8 units at a time. If more are selected, then the game will group selected units up by type.

The reasons not to impliment this feature would be to save menu space, free up the game play view, and all of the features on the menu would be accessible from other menus anyway, such as right clicking on a unit would bring up a menu to activate special abilities.

So please voice your opinion on whether I should include the "selected units display menu" or not. Thank you.

Xander Moser - Bolt Software - Firewall
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Bizar Guy
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Posted: 12th Jul 2006 00:52
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I would do that, as it's done in hw2, and works quite well, but make it fairly small, so it's not too obtrusive, and perhaps have an option to have the bottom menu disapear when the cursor isn't over it?

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Agent Dink
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Posted: 12th Jul 2006 07:27
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Hey, just played the demo earlier today. I must say, it looks good, and it runs good! I was getting constant 60 with all the shadows and everything. I'm looking forward to seeing more


[url=http://www.silver-dawn.net]www.Silver-dawn.net[url]
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Dreamora
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Posted: 12th Jul 2006 09:12
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I agree with Bizar, the way HW2 does it is more suited for this case.
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Xander
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Location: In college...yeah!
Posted: 15th Jul 2006 02:14
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Thanks for the feedback. But I don't have Homeworld 2...only the first one. I played a demo once, but I forgot what the GUI was like mostly. Is it similar to Star Wars Empire at War? Good idea with the disappearing menu, Bizar Guy.


I have actually had very significant progress in the past few days. I got the turrets working, got the ammo system in, got shields and armor, and got units to target eachother and fire at eachother. Now I am working on making the targeting and moving smarter, as well as including bases as targets. My ammo system is very adaptable, so I can easily add stuff like homing rockets, laser beams, etc. I am using Sparky's collision dll, and it works wonders and is super fast. That guy is a genius.

I don't know when I'll be on fast internet again, so I can't say when I can upload the next demo, but be assured that it will be a fun one

Xander Moser - Bolt Software - Firewall
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Humanoid
20
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Joined: 20th Sep 2003
Location: Finland
Posted: 20th Jul 2006 10:40
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ERROR: memblock position outside range at line 3052

need fix

Suomi Finland PERKELE!
<AMD athlon 64 3000+> <Asus A8N-E nForce4 ultra> <GF6600LE PCI-E> <1GB ram>
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I wanna be a guru
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Posted: 20th Jul 2006 19:38
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another rare, but quality game made in DB.
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Xander
21
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Location: In college...yeah!
Posted: 22nd Jul 2006 00:14
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Quote: "ERROR: memblock position outside range at line 3052"


Am I right in assuming that you tried to run it in a 16 bit depth resolution? Because that will give you memblock out of range errors. I assume that this error occured when you tried to run it. Could you give me your computer specs? That'd be helpful, thanks.

Thanks guru, but it's not really a game yet. Barely a game engine even...as soon as I can fix a couple bugs, and actually get online somewhere in town, there will be a new demo uploaded with lots of cool new stuff. I apologize that this is taking so long, but I'm kind of really busy at the moment. I'm working as much as possible to save my money for a car, there are 9 people in my house because my sister and brother in law are visiting, and I'm trying to get financial stuff in order for going back to school next month.

But don't worry, I'm not dropping this project.

Xander Moser - Bolt Software - Firewall
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Humanoid
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Joined: 20th Sep 2003
Location: Finland
Posted: 23rd Jul 2006 01:51
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Yep, i use windows 16bit color, works fine 32bit

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<AMD athlon 64 3000+> <Asus A8N-E nForce4 ultra> <GF6600LE PCI-E> <1GB ram>
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Xander
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Posted: 23rd Jul 2006 04:05
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Thanks for clarifying that. I may change the memblock functions so that they can use 16 bit, because I think it may go faster that way.

Xander Moser - Bolt Software - Firewall
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Alfa x
17
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Joined: 1st Jul 2006
Location: Colombia
Posted: 23rd Jul 2006 16:14
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Hi,
Like I promised,
I'm using blender to make objects with the
direct x exporter. I think for textures I will use GIMP.
I will make a game, so i have to show it to you.
Thank you.
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Diggsey
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Joined: 24th Apr 2006
Location: On this web page.
Posted: 30th Jul 2006 12:25 Edited at: 30th Jul 2006 13:35
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I've been away too long But now I can try this out

One question: Are the rockets/bullets affected by gravity? I made some code for finding the angle to fire at to hit a point which doesn't have to be at the same height, so it could hit flying units as well. David T explained all the maths to me.
If you haven't done something like this already, I thought it may be useful It's at the bottom of this Ignore the first one I made

edit:

I just tried it, and found a few problems:

This may/may not be the pathfinding problem, but after a while (it worked at first) when I tell units to go somewhere, they all go down to the bottom left of the map and even went inside one of those capaciters.

When you first run it, it waits on a black screen for a long time (like you said); however when you run it again, it starts as a window, then maximizes but doesn't finish maximizing - a black square covers the bottom right part of the screen. You can still see the desktop behind it. It stays like this for about 2 minutes, then finishes maximizing and starts the game instantly. This may be because of me using win98, and you might need an extra sync to let it finish maximizing.
I suck at capturing all of the build pads before they do

edit2:

I get a max 25 fps with all options set at max speed least quality.

There are three types of people, those that can count and those that can't.
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Alfa x
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Location: Colombia
Posted: 30th Jul 2006 18:51
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Hi,
I have a question.
Wich Audio Editor do you recommend me?
I'm still a nob.
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optical r
21
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Joined: 23rd Oct 2002
Location: Prime
Posted: 1st Aug 2006 13:50
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Quote: "I'm still a nob"

lmao.


ok letws be constructive, i'd recommend cool edit pro man, awesome bit of kit


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Hawkeye
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Joined: 19th Sep 2003
Location: SC, USA
Posted: 1st Aug 2006 20:25
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Alfa X: get Audacity. Does everything you need it to, and it's free...


I am but mad north north-west; when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw - Hamlet, Hamlet
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