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Work in Progress / Firewall 2: Second Defense...screenshots and videos

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Flindiana Jones
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Posted: 18th May 2006 05:45
Hmm...if you were looking to expand gameplay a bit, why not go for something like where there's multiple battles per computer, like maybe one to get on the hard drive, one where you get the network port, and one where you take out the OS. Each one would would be different from each other, in the terrain, obstacles and things like that.

Your goose is cooked.
BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 18th May 2006 07:40
Quote: "And I thought of the hard drive thing before, that will be one of the specifications of the computer and will limit the amount of units you can hold on each computer. It will balance the game much better. Also, some units will take up more hard drive space than others."


That is sweet. I always hated having random population caps in RTSs (I revel in the glory days of Red Alert 2 with battles consisting of thousands of conscipts), but this makes perfect sense and adds an element of strategy.

When you're going between difference computers, is it all going to be happening at once, or will it be in a sort of Rise of Nations Conquer the World format in which you strategically defend your network and initiate battles on the different computers in real time?


I'm going to eat you!
Bongadoo
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Posted: 18th May 2006 12:50
Great looking game Xander.

Could you let me know how you do the light effects on the units and bases (ie..the glow that comes out each side of the bases). Is it just a texture on a plain with alpha and fade turned up? Also same question for the exhaust of the ships? Thanks!
Xander
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Posted: 19th May 2006 06:50
@ Flindiana: That's actually a great idea; it would add variety to the gameplay but still keep everything RTS. That was one mistake I made with Firewall, was adding the third person shooter element in. It took away from time spent on polishing the RTS portion.

@ Bear: Yes, I like having lots of units in certain RTS games, but mine will be a little different of a style. Lots of RTS games have groups of units, like if you make a soldier, it makes 10 of them. I'm going to have single units, so there won't be quite as many, but I will make the most use of the units on the map so it never gets dull and you can still make a huge army to overpower the enemy.

The Network map is going to be a real time thing, sort of like Star Wars Empire at War. It is real time, until you enter a battle. Then everything on the Network map is going to pause while you do a battle. After all, it takes mere seconds to delete a file, right?

@ Bongadoo: Thanks, glad you like it. Yeah, sure I'll tell you how that's done. You're right in the fact that it is just a basic 3D object. It is actually 4 plains, one for each side, because they are tilted up a little for a different look. I then ghosted them and turned the fade up. Same thing with the exhaust of the ships, they are just cylinders that were modeled along with the plane and then ghosted in the game. Then all I have to do is position and rotate them the same as the main model, and they follow perfectly. They still need some work though, as their texture is very basic, just a gradient.


Sorry I have no update right now for the design document, but I am on a different computer. I am home from college for the summer, so my internet access is a little bit limited. My connection is only 21600 bps, so bear with me. I will be going to a nearby college almost every Monday, so I can upload screenshots and videos then. So look forward to weekly Monday media updates In the meantime, I can still work on the game and design document, but I have a lot of work to do on the lawn in the next few days...

Xander Moser - Bolt Software - Firewall
Drew Cameron
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Posted: 19th May 2006 23:25
Take that lawn for a trip down Mowing-lane.

Looking great so far!

Xander
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Posted: 22nd May 2006 21:47 Edited at: 1st Jun 2006 09:12
Alright, I finally got some more stuff done the last couple of nights.

I don't have much time right now, but here is a small list of some stuff that I have gotten done:

-Fixed up the new tank model
-Increased the frame rate. With hardware shadows off I get a constant 60 fps unless I build more than like 40 units, then it drops a little.
-Added the ability to capture build pads by moving your units close to them, so you can build more bases and expand. No good capturing animation though...
-Building animations almost complete, I just want to add in a flash or something at the beginning to hide the inital showing of the object.

Things to add next:
-Fade the edges of the map out
-Add more obstacles and eventually large parts that will be integral parts of the battles
-Basic AI for both enemy team and units
-Fix more collision and pathfinding
-Make sure virus stuff works

[edit] Screenshots removed due to more recent ones posted below...

And the new videos, showing some building animations and the new unit:

http://www.boltsoftwaregames.com/Firewall2-Video3.wmv

http://www.boltsoftwaregames.com/Firewall2-Video4.wmv

Xander Moser - Bolt Software - Firewall
Bizar Guy
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Posted: 23rd May 2006 01:13 Edited at: 23rd May 2006 01:20
Oh man, that's so awesome.
Only being able to place stationary objects in preset places could make for some interesting strategy...

Vids going at 7-8 fps isn't good, but I assume that's because of fraps?

The amount of polish you already have is incredible.

The only question I have at the moment is, how will you keep the various maps from looking almost identical? It would be awesome if each were unique and original... That would make the game very memorable...

In Homeworld this was mostly done using a different space backdrop for each point, which actually showed your progress. Also there were many unique features in each map, such as asteroid fields and solar radiation in unprotected areas, not to mention a giant junkyard patrolled by a scrap ship that could destroy your fleet. There's some of this in advanced wars as well, like on some maps there are giant unique bases in the center, or a number of super weapons which are mostly used on that map only. Just some examples, not saying you should do things similarly in Firewall 2.

Just from reading what you write here and watching those vids, it's so easy to see that you're a pro at rts's...
Oh yes, that and from playing the Firewall demo.

I may get firewall, just not right away.

The admiral
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Posted: 23rd May 2006 01:31
Aww drools loks great your awesome dude.

The admiral
Bongadoo
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Posted: 23rd May 2006 14:18
Hi Xander, thanks for the reply as to how you did the lighting on the bases. One more question

When the building is being constructed, how did you do that electric field effect (it's very cool!)? I'm guessing a mesh from the object textured with the 'electric' texture alpha mapped then randomly UV shifted over time; then alpha faded out at the end?

Thanks in advance
David iz cool
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Posted: 23rd May 2006 17:04
one of the better wips ive seen around here!

good work!hope to see more later
optical r
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Posted: 23rd May 2006 17:15
Impressed by the level of professionalism conducted on this project so far!

I can wait to have a test play, looking forward to it Xander!


Professional and comprehensive webdesigns available on request www.designrjs.com
Agent Dink
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Posted: 23rd May 2006 20:13
For different levels, he could have like different colored motherboards, like ATI's red color, and Nvidia's blue color. He could also have obstacles that need to be navigated around like other microchips, and maybe ram and expansion slots. Stuff like that. Maybe even have missions where you need to protect the Bios or the memory or something. Dunno, maybe you already had those ideas.

Xander
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Posted: 24th May 2006 08:10 Edited at: 1st Jun 2006 09:13
Thanks for all the replies everyone, I love reading them and it really helps me get ideas for the game.

@ Bizar Guy: Yes, I have thought a lot about making the maps all different, because I really don't want them all to look the same like they did in Firewall. Agent Dink made some great suggestions, like coloring the motherboard and adding different components.

What you see in the screenshots are randomly generated maps, I worked hard to make them random, yet still have some structure. However, each map in the campaign will be different, not randomly generated. These maps will also be able to be played skirmish-style; the randomly generated map will just be an option, and is all I have done so far.

As for other components, I will be adding CPU's, bios chips, video cards, other pci cards, and memory sticks in the slots. In the battles, you will have to protect certain parts of the computers, like the CPU. So a lot of the battle will revolve around a certain point, or a couple of them.

Framerate: Yes, the bad framerate is mostly due to fraps. But it is also due to shadow shading on my craptop. If I turn off shadow shading, I get a constant 60 fps, unless I build tons of units, then it drops to like 50. If I turn shadow shading on, then it drops to like 30 fps. However, if you turn off shadow shading, there are still soft drop-shadows, so it still looks like, just not as awesome.

A pro at RTS's? Well, I have played a lot recently, but a year ago, I had never played a single well-known RTS game. I have just learned a lot and gotten my own ideas.

@Bongadoo: No problem, I'm willing to help people out if they ask nicely The building animations took me longer to think of than to actually make them work, haha. I tried to make them as simple as possible. I made a zappy texture, and made 4 copies of it, each one is just rotated 90 degrees. Then I fade it 10 times and save those images. Then I use the image as a detail map on the object and use the faded ones as the building nears the end. I did detail mapping because it isn't too taxing, as long as there aren't too many objects with it at once, and it doesn't require a seperate mesh or more polygons.

@ Agent Dink: Great ideas. I had thought of the different color motherboards and some other components, but hadn't thought of the Bios, thanks a lot for that. I was trying to think of important parts of the board to protect, and that's a good one.

Progress Update:

I finally got done mowing the lawn, so here is what I have gotten done tonight:

-Created faded edges of the map, looks much smoother now

-Implimented the power system. Building power supply bases increases your maximum power, building other bases and units take up power. My little power bar looks pretty cool so far, I'll post it when I get a chance for more screenshots. I'll try uploading one now, but it might be too slow...

[edit]

Okay, it worked alright, so here's an updated screenshot:

[edit] Screenshot removed: see below for updated screenshots

Xander Moser - Bolt Software - Firewall
BearCDPOLD
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Posted: 24th May 2006 09:05
Wow, this is truly great stuff. Good luck with this dude, I shall be trolling......


I'm going to eat you!
Bizar Guy
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Posted: 25th May 2006 00:08
Nice. I notice you took this pic from farther out, as well.

And I'm glad to hear you plan to have very diverse maps.

I remember in Firewall, the units all looked very similar. In Firewall 2 will they be easier to tell apart? So far they all look very unique, but I'm still curious.

Also, how big would you say your biggest unit will be? I think it would be fun to have a super tank come along and run over all those little tanks or something.

Seriously though, graphically this could easily be a professional product. It really looks that good and stylish. There have only been a small few dbp games I’ve said that about, but this is one of them.

Cian Rice
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Posted: 25th May 2006 00:12
I'm liking the looks of it so far, I only played a demo of the original but I really liked what I played, but is there a possibility of bump/normal mapping the textures to add more depth? I think that the enviorment would benefit from that as it would make the chips look better personally.

The admiral
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Posted: 25th May 2006 01:34
Yeah i think the board could benifit from something that gave it depth like bumpmap.

The admiral
Xander
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Posted: 25th May 2006 08:36 Edited at: 25th May 2006 08:40
@ Bizar Guy: Yes, that was another huge mistake I made in Firewall...wow, I sure made a lot of mistakes, huh? Haha, oh well, I guess that is the only way to learn. I am going to work hard to make sure that all of the units look different, no matter how far zoomed out you are. There won't be different versions of single designs in this game.

Unit size will be limited due to pathfinding stuff, it gets screwed up with bigger guys. I'd say the largest guy might be twice the size of those tanks, in width and length. So just smaller than a base maybe.

Wow, I really appreciate the compliment. It only makes me want to work harder to keep up the graphical quality

@ Anime Blood and The admiral: Yes, I am going to apply something to the map graphics. I was thinking a specular map, but maybe a bump map. I have to admit, I don't really have experience with that stuff, but I guess I have to learn now, as I want to make it look as good as possible.

No one has answered my question from before though: If I create a specular or bump map for an object, and I scroll and scale the texture for it, will the specular or bump map be scaled and scrolled too? Because otherwise it would screw everything up.

Progress update

-I managed to finally get a buildpad capturing animation in that looks good and doesn't hog speed. I'll show it in the next video.

-Added some nice selecting features, like you can hold down "g" while selecting a bunch of units, and only have the ground units selected, or hold "f" to select only the fliers. Very handy.

Xander Moser - Bolt Software - Firewall
dark coder
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Posted: 25th May 2006 08:52
Quote: "No one has answered my question from before though: If I create a specular or bump map for an object, and I scroll and scale the texture for it, will the specular or bump map be scaled and scrolled too? Because otherwise it would screw everything up."


im very sure the 'scale object texture' command now has an extra parameter for which layer you put it on, and i advise you look at the ultimate shader pack freddix made from other peoples shaders, some of the shaders inside are really impressive and easy to use.

Hallowed are the ori.
Xander
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Posted: 25th May 2006 09:40
Quote: "im very sure the 'scale object texture' command now has an extra parameter for which layer you put it on, and i advise you look at the ultimate shader pack freddix made from other peoples shaders, some of the shaders inside are really impressive and easy to use."


Oh, yeah, that is what the texture layer flags are for. I had forgotten about that. I think I downloaded the shader pack, I'll check it out tonight. Thanks. And thanks again for the great models, did you get the paypal payment?

Xander Moser - Bolt Software - Firewall
Diggsey
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Posted: 25th May 2006 20:46
Bizar guy said:
Quote: "
Sounds great, but what's to stop the attacking team from bringing a rediculously large army they built up on one computer onto the other teams computer and simply overwhelming them? Will there be a unit cap per computer, like only a certain amount of information the hard drive can hold?
"


maybe you could have a connection speed between computers, so you could have as many units as you wanted, but it takes time for them to come. So you get one unit every ten seconds or something.

just an idea

There are three types of people, those that can count and those that can't.
Xander
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Posted: 26th May 2006 06:24
Quote: "maybe you could have a connection speed between computers, so you could have as many units as you wanted, but it takes time for them to come. So you get one unit every ten seconds or something."


That's a great idea. I still don't want unlimited army sizes, because it screws with the system that I already implemented, but here is what I have in mind:

-On the network screen, you build your units and put them on the computers that you want

-In the battle, you install your units to use them. The time it takes to install them is just the amount of time it takes to build them.

-When a unit is destroyed, it must be redownloaded to the computer, which takes time. Once it is downloaded, you can then install, or build, it again. So you can use a unit in a battle even after it dies.

I am doing it this way so that the battles are more in-depth. I have found that in many RTS games, once a battle starts tipping on the favor of one team, it is pretty much over. However, with this system, you must knock out an enemy quickly before they can redownload their units. Otherwise they can come back and delete you.

How does that sound?

Thanks for the suggestions everyone

Xander Moser - Bolt Software - Firewall
Diggsey
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Posted: 26th May 2006 21:30
If they have killed all of your units but not at the same time, so say they killed half, you then reloaded them, then they killed the other half, do they still win? Or do you have to completely demolish the other team before they can reload them?

There are three types of people, those that can count and those that can't.
Xander
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Posted: 27th May 2006 06:42
For a team to lose, all of their units and bases must be destroyed. Units can only be built next to power bases, so once all of the power bases are destroyed, no more units can be brought in.

To answer your question, each unit is downloaded seperately. So if one gets destroyed, it starts downloading again right away. It will take a couple minutes, and once it is done, it can then be installed, or built.

So there will be multiple ways to win a battle. The primary target will be the power bases, since that is the only place that units can be installed at, and they provide the power needed to build units and build and maintain a base.

Once a unit is built, it doesn't need a power base anymore, but bases require certain amounts of power to use. If all of your power bases are destroyed, then you cannot use any of your other bases anyway.

It may be a tad bit confusing at the moment, but it will make much more sense when you're actually playing it.

Progress update:

-I fixed some more collision stuff so that units move around eachother and obstacles much smoother

-I am working on a bump or specular map for the circuit board

-I finished the power display and system, and made sure it doesn't slow the game down at all

-I have started work on a new unit, the first virus unit. It's looking good so far. I have finished modeling it, and layed out the UV map, but I still have yet to texture it.

Xander Moser - Bolt Software - Firewall
Diggsey
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Posted: 29th May 2006 17:39
When do you expect it to be finished?
I can't wait...

There are three types of people, those that can count and those that can't.
UFO
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Posted: 29th May 2006 20:44
holy crap!

Man, I need to check the forum more often

Looks really cool. I think you should make the unit thingies' textures look a little more different than the ground textures, though.

Agent Dink
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Posted: 30th May 2006 01:43
You should have a "superweapon" where you can back-up your base in case you are attacked. After you fend off the attack you can automatically re-construct your base from the backup, of course if would take some time to back it up and some more time to reconstruct, and maybe you only have a limited amount of space to do it in. So like you can only back-up a few structures?

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jasonhtml
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Posted: 30th May 2006 02:45
that would be cool, but people might abuse it

Deathquest (MMORPG)
Deathquest Thread: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=61108&b=8
DD Studios Website: http://www.geocities.com/jasonhtml/
Mattman
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Posted: 30th May 2006 03:41 Edited at: 30th May 2006 03:44
Xander: Any luck yet with the bump mapping? I once got really into bump mapping, but turned out my pc was too crappy for it. If you want I have a link boomarked about bump mapping + DBP somewhere.

[edit]http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=66966&b=1[/edit]

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Xander
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Posted: 30th May 2006 07:52 Edited at: 1st Jun 2006 09:11
@Diggsey: Done? Hahahah. Sorry, but I can't help but laugh when people ask me that. I'm thinking maybe in 2 years. Maybe you mean when will I release the first demo...that may be by the end of June, depending on how things go. No promises, sorry.

@UFO: Thanks for the tip. I actually am redoing the terrain completely, check the screenshot below and tell me if you like it better now...

@Agent Dink: That's a great idea, backups. I have been trying to think of more things that will reflect what a battle between anti-virus and viruses would be like. I'll definitely add in a back-up feature.

Here is an idea I have for the battles:

The team (virus or firewall) that has control of the computer at the time will start with one power station (or more, depending on if it is in a campaign) already in place. The invading team will start with one unit at the ethernet port, and have to find a build pad quick and secure it. They can then build a power station and build more units...

@jasonhtml: Yes, abusing is always something you have to watch for. That is why it will be up to you guys to test everything out for me later

@ Mattman: Actually, I have been redrawing the texture from scratch. I just got my hands on a normal map generator, so now I will start to play with bump and/or specular mapping. Thanks for the link, I'll check it out


Okay, here is an updated screenshot. It is just the new terrain texture that I'm working on, along with the new power display. I finally got it working, but the system needs a little bit of tweaking.

The terrain texture is not finished at all, I am editing it so that it can be tiled. It's a bit of work, but will be worth it 100 percent.

[edit] Screenshot removed...look below for more recent screens

Click here to see the full shot, full resolution:
http://www.boltsoftwaregames.com/Firewall2-Image11.jpg

Xander Moser - Bolt Software - Firewall
Steve J
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Posted: 30th May 2006 09:04
drewl. Awesome!

Wii rules.
The admiral
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Posted: 30th May 2006 09:15
Looking good.

The admiral
Diggsey
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Posted: 30th May 2006 14:29
If you do what you said about the one unit which builds a building at an ethernet port, wouldn't it be too easy for the defending team, because they could just post an army at the ethernet port and it would be impossible for one unit to survive.

There are three types of people, those that can count and those that can't.
Xander
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Posted: 30th May 2006 21:36
The defending team will not have any units out yet, and it will take a little while for their power to charge before they can build any units. So the invading unit should have sufficient time to find a buildpad (it will be close to the ethernet port) and build a power base. So it should be pretty even.

Xander Moser - Bolt Software - Firewall
Oddmind
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Posted: 31st May 2006 01:38
Wow this looks just superb! I dont even like RTS that much but Im definately going to play this one!

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Xander
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Posted: 31st May 2006 09:04
Haha, thanks OddMind.

Small update: I finally got the new terrain picture tileable by editing all of the circuit traces. I got a normal map made also, so now I just need to play around with all of the shaders in the ultimate shader pack to try to find the right one for me to use...

Xander Moser - Bolt Software - Firewall
Van B
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Posted: 31st May 2006 10:33 Edited at: 31st May 2006 10:35
That looks saucier than a meat pie in a ketchup factory!

Gotta love the LED glow effect - and coded in DBPro too!, the original Firewall never worked for me, so I'm thinking this one will .

Aegrescit medendo
Mattman
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Posted: 31st May 2006 17:58
Once again, Joel got bump mapping to work great in the link I gave you Just a friendly reminder to help you out!

Matt

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Diggsey
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Posted: 31st May 2006 21:28
Is it going to be multiplayer, single player, or both?
And is there going to be a free demo available?

There are three types of people, those that can count and those that can't.
Bahamut
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Posted: 31st May 2006 22:00
Nice to see this got stickied. It's looking awesome. I just spent the last 20 minutes reading through your ideas, and they sound really good.

I can't wait to see the virus units.

How does the combat work? Is it a rock-paper-scissors approach, or something slightly different?


I'm ashamed to admit that I haven't played the original. I'll download the demo when my exams are finished.

This seems to be a good time for DBP-loads of quality WIPs.

Bizar Guy
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Posted: 31st May 2006 22:33
What took so long for the sticky?

Anyways, conratz on it Xander.

Xander
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Posted: 1st Jun 2006 08:56 Edited at: 1st Jun 2006 09:09
Yay, my first sticky ever!

@ Van B: Thanks, I sure hope this one works for you. It should, I don't see why it wouldn't. I am adding a lot of configuration stuff to allow for many different systems

@ Mattman: Well, it turns out that bumpmapping isn't the right thing for the terrain. Mostly because my terrain is a repeated 1024x1024 texture, and bumpmapping kills the framerate. I am going to try it on the slots and chips though, I'll post a pic once I get that done. Thanks again for the link

@ Diggsey: I am aiming for multiplayer, that is my top goal for this game. I have lots of friends at college that are experienced with multiplayer LAN stuff, so they can help me out a little. But I won't be starting to work on multiplayer until at least September. And of course I will release a free demo! It just will take a few more weeks. Hang in there...

@ Bahamut: The combat is going to completely real-time, with every unit having shields and firing ammo that can hit other units and lower their shields and stuff. Explosions with splash damage, homing rockets, you name it. No turn-based stuff here.

@ Bizar Guy: Thanks, and thanks for all of your help so far!

Progress Update:

-I finally got the terrain texture finished. It looks tons better in my opinion. And it can easily be changed to different colors right in the program too. I added some fake bump mapping, as real bump mapping with a shader kills the frame rate on such a high quality textured object

-I made a waypoint system so you can hold down shift while clicking on multiple points to make selected units follow a trail. Will be very useful for rogue units later on

-Added a glossy shader to the capacitors, as well as made a new color texture for some of them. I will be making more obstacle objects in the near future.

Screenshot in a few minutes...





Xander Moser - Bolt Software - Firewall
jasonhtml
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Location: OC, California, USA
Posted: 1st Jun 2006 16:30
wow! this is one of the best games made in DBP yet, no doubt!

Deathquest (MMORPG)
Deathquest Thread: http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=61108&b=8
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Hawkeye
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Posted: 1st Jun 2006 17:39
Holy monkey nuts!


I am but mad north north-west; when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw - Hamlet, Hamlet
Mattman
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Location: East Lansing
Posted: 1st Jun 2006 18:00
Sorry to keep bugging you about this, but this would be one of the sweetest uses of bump mapping? How much did the framerate drop when you added it?

Why make sense when you could make brownies?
Bahamut
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Location: Brighton
Posted: 1st Jun 2006 22:09
Quote: "@ Bahamut: The combat is going to completely real-time, with every unit having shields and firing ammo that can hit other units and lower their shields and stuff. Explosions with splash damage, homing rockets, you name it. No turn-based stuff here."


That's not quite what I meant. A rock-paper-scissors approach is like Empire Earth. Archer beats cavalry, which beats infantry. Is the combat in your game going to be like that (with different classes, obviously), or is each unit going to have its own strengths and weaknesses?

Or is it some amazing new-found way of doing thangs that you don't want to reveal?

BMacZero
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2006 02:31
One word: Wow

Bmaczero
Freddy 007
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2006 04:08
One word: Uhh... Looksforwalletalready! This looks slightly admirable.

CPU
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Location: Carlsbad, CA
Posted: 3rd Jun 2006 17:26 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2006 17:27
Bolt... wow... Firewall was realy, realy good for a DB game, especialy for DBClasic, and now with you starting to dig into DBPro, it'll be pretty cool to see the end result. I did however have a few questions (when don't I ):

For the motherboard, I'm guessing collision is basicly manual box/circle collision right?

From the screenshots it seems that you got rid of the tile based system entirely and are going for a more classic RTS style game right?

Keep it up Bolt!

CPU

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UFO
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2006 18:07
wow! That looks alot better!!

This looks like it is going to be tons better than Firewall 1, and that was already extremely cool!

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