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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Is this the new RC 10 update we've been waiting for?

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Aydan
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Posted: 8th Jan 2007 23:33
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I have tried out the new beta and it works great minus a few things.

The new light system is absolutely AMAZING! and the loading is indeed alot nicer.

However I still have the transparent character problem. I have it on some and not others. Also there is a huge bug with the frame rate. Everyone wants it higher or better but when its going at a solid 60 frames the game is like lightning and is annoying lol. I hope these can be fixed soon and I will be one mega happy user
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FredP
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Posted: 8th Jan 2007 23:34
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We all just need to take a ddep breath and be patient.
If you were working on a level for the Nvidia compo you should have been using one of the more stable upgrades or even v1.
Getting upset is not going to fix the problem faster or do anybody any good.
I have my issues with this update...I have had some issues with all of the updates as I am sure most of us do but the only thing that getting upset is going to do for me is cause a blood vessel to burst or give me a heart attack...
That won't help,either.
My advice is that you start to build a level from the ground up...from scratch and see how well that works.

http://www.wembley1967.com
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xplosys
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Playing: FPSC Multiplayer Games
Posted: 8th Jan 2007 23:54
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Quote: "I didn't mean to be rude at all, if I came accross that way, then sorry about that."


Glad to hear it. Like I said, I understand your frustration but you ranting is getting a little much.

Quote: "As far as the threats go.... sorry you seem to take them that way, there my reasonings and findings, don't meant as threat at all."


I don't mean to carry this any further, but I was basing my statement on these.

Quote: "That leaves me one choice.... I will drop FPSC as my main game creation tool. I'm going to try to still finish the Commander Josh sequel, but the newest RC's sure have made FPSC much less fun to use.

I'm still debating if FPSC is the best choice for using it for my teaching projects, since that is also being used by people using below average systems, so it could well be that FPSC will be not be used at all anymore.

Well I had enough of RC's that cause only problems by now, so count me OUT when the next one comes, I'll be focussing on getting my competition entries done, debating which RC to use, perhaps finishing Commander Josh, but mainly focussing on where to go from here.
"


I really do hope you stick with it because you probably are carrying this farther than most, and you input and experience is a valuable asset to the community.

Best.

I'm sorry, my answers are limited. You must ask the right question.

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Benjamin A
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 00:10 Edited at: 9th Jan 2007 00:28
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OK, that one, that refers to this RC and as said before I'm not going to test the next one.

I've bought FPSC october 2005.... still haven't really been able to do what I would like to do and what FPSC promises. During that year we've seen a good number of users leave, very talented ones, but they couldn't make their dreams come true, waited for a while and left, very unfortunate.

Now we do see updates and I lost count by now, but none of them is really stable and for me they only cause more problems, so that's why I've stated that and I'm sticking to it, unless a miracle happens (you never know) I've lost to much time waiting already.

EDIT: I've got a number of projects ready to be made, but they do need stable save/load and fog, that exsists only in RC7, before that those features have been buggy. BUT RC7 also contains Darklights and that's causing me major problems and to be honest, while it is very cool when you use dark ambience levels, for the light ambience levels I'm using it's no gain at all.

With RC6 FPSC being stable with save/load & working fog and a few other improvements seemed very close and then Lee decided to throw in Darklights, so basically I'm stuck with a FPSC I can't really use for what I bought it for and that is frustrating, especially if you think of the fact that Darklights wasn't part of the original setup.

I've contacted Lee with the request that if it's possible to also create an alternative that is table without Darklights, basically RC2 with working save/load and fog. If Lee is not able then I really do have to drop FPSC from my toolbox, that's not my choice, but just the way things are at the moment.

My statement wasn't meant as a threat at all, just a conclusion I arrived at, since it looks like I'll be stuck with an unusable FPSC version, while a good one was so close at hand.

But enough of this, we just have to wait and see what will come, just hoping the wait won't take another year.

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
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Nickydude
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 00:40
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May be Lee's stuffing in as many extras as he can, then sorting out the bugs, instead of sorting bugs, adding an extra, sorting out those bugs, adding another extra, sorting out the bugs that that extra has now made... you get the idea.


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Thraxas
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 01:49 Edited at: 9th Jan 2007 01:51
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Quote: "May be Lee's stuffing in as many extras as he can, then sorting out the bugs, instead of sorting bugs, adding an extra, sorting out those bugs, adding another extra, sorting out the bugs that that extra has now made... you get the idea.
"


That's what I have been thinking for a while now. It makes more sense to add the new features then fix all the bugs at once. Well it makes more sense to me.
I can also see it from Ben's point of view. He wants a solid stable release he can with now without the new features, which can be added later.

Both ways have their own pros and cons, it just depends on what side of the fence you're sitting on as to which you prefer.

I like having dark lights in now as it means I can build a level and see how it looks with lightmapping without having to wait a week and a half.


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Airslide
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 02:03
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Ben - Why don't you ask Lee to simple add a feature to use the old lightmapping system? Like an option in the preferences. Might help a bit.

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PAS
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 03:07
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Benjamin A,
I agree with you, but at the same time, with the new developments in hardware there comes new developments in software too. I wouldn't say it is anyoones fault, because people like Micorsoft are continually upgrading. I was surprised I needed to upgrade my Direct X. I do have a solution that I was going to use after reading all of the problems people were having. I saved all my old packs so that if the upgrade didn't work with my computer I could stilluse the old version. So if you have your old packs then maybe you could uninstall the new version and not load the new packs. That way your version of FPSC will still be compatible with your hardware. I hope this helps.

K.l. Phair
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PAS
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 03:19
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The Daddy,
I was looking at your hardware specs in your post. I am not looking at your computr, but it seems like your processor cannot handle the speed based upon your description. Because of the dynamic lighting and such from the new RC10 upgrade, it is a little harder on your computer. Yopu need a good Pentium Processor or somethign equivilant.

I found when uninstalling FPSC again, that it cna leave some folders and traces of everything. Anything that you have related to FPSC creator uninstall it before uninstalling the FPSC program. After you uninstall the program go into your system tools and do the disk clean up. This will remove temporary files and the such. After you do that then go into your C drive, (which should be your main drive), then go into your program files. Now your program files should list all of the folders in there by alphabetical order. If you see the folder "The Game Creators" then right click on it and select delete. Empty your recycle bin, then shut off your computer for at least five minutes to gurantee that your comp0uter has not trace of what you deleted. Then reload all of your programs startign with FPSC first and any add ons you have as wella s any programs associated with FPSC. This should fix the problem. Usually when you delete the program it will still leave the folder in place with some old traces. If this doesnt work then let me know and I will try to think of something else. I hope this helps.

K.l. Phair
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PAS
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 03:37
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Benjamin A,
I tested all aspects of this but if there is something specific you are looking for post it and then maybe one of us who is not having problems can try to see what is causing it. What type of hardware are you using and what are your computers specs? Where are you having the biggest problems that you need help in?

K.l. Phair
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PAS
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 04:53
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ThiOk, there a great dela of people that are complainign about the FPSC upgrade and making it seem like FPSC has problems. From looking at the people who are having problems it seems form the looks of it that their system is not 100% compatible. Ont the FPSC creator box is says to have a pentium 3 for the miminum requirements. (At least on the box I got.) FPSC is a game engine, noit matter how you look at it. It just happens to be a game engine that is very easy to use and that you cna edit the features and don;t have to spend hours editing things, but it is still a game engine, just like any other gam engine. If you downloaded Torque,Maya and even tools like Poser etc. then you would probably have the same problems. The advancement of FPSC evolves with the advancement of hardware technology. Thats like the XBOX going to XBOX 360. Theyre not going to move backwards so why should FPSC. If you do not have the hardware to run it on your computer then that is your choice as aconsumer, but that does not mean FPSC cannot do what it says it can. All it means is that you dont want to upgrade your hardware. So that is not TGC's fault or anyone elses. That is a personal choice each of us wants to make, but here is a fact. Yuo eventually have to upgrade your hardware sometime or else the software you will be able to run will be very limited as all software that comes out each year moves its upgrades to match the upgrades of hardware technology. Before the upgrade I was having problems and I dealt with it and waited. Now I have no problems due to the upgrade. All that it tells me is that FPSC needed to be upgraded to match the requirements of the computers coming out. I had to upgrade my Direct X still not a problem. If you have to do debugging then decide if it is worth it to you. If not then dont do it. If so then do it. I cna be honest thta I havent been in these forums as nearly as long as probably most of you, but lets be realistic, you cant blame all of your problems on the software. Its not the softwares fault if you don't want to upgrade. Yea it costs money, but what doesn't? I am using FPSC to create a commercial game. At the same time I am also making a different game with a different game engine. I enjoy FPSC because its the ONLY progrma I have sen that has all these easy and cool features that you cna still manipulate. My advice is, if you cannot run the upgrade then stick with the last version that worked foryou. Everyone here can run all the tests all day, but it doesnt mean its going to change your hardware. I could understand if we were all upgraded and were having problems but it seems like the only ones having problems are the users with old systems. So earase the new version and load the old version back up. Thats all anyone can do. I hope this helps and hopefully we can get a happier note into the forum.

K.l. Phair
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FredP
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 06:36
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Quote: "I could understand if we were all upgraded and were having problems but it seems like the only ones having problems are the users with old systems. So earase the new version and load the old version back up. Thats all anyone can do. I hope this helps and hopefully we can get a happier note into the forum."


That's not an acceptable solution.
TGC is developing FPSC x10 and if they want to make it for high end systems or whatever that's just fine.
Most of the users on this forum don't have the bucks to buy supercomputers and I am sure Lee is doing everything within his power to make FPSC work on the computers it has been working on all of this time.
The users with old (loosely translated "low-end") systems outnumber the ones with the high end systems.
And Ben has been with the FPSC community for a while as have others that have posted in this thread.
To say that we ought to just go back to the old stuff won't work.
The upgrades in FPSC affect the performance of the model packs as well.
People with v1 only on their system already can't use some of the model packs.
I know there are bugs to work out.They will eventually get worked out.
Just because Ben or myself or another user doens't have a hundred core processor doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to use the latest in FPSC.
That's what the next gen FPSC in development is for.
Lee has done a good job of taking care of us and will continue to do so.
If we work together and help each other work on the bugs we might be able to accomplish something.
Reverting backwards to v1 is something I refuse to do.
My philosophy is to keep moving forward.

http://www.wembley1967.com
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TheDaddy
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 08:43
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@PAS
I appreciate your help a lot and I thank you for that but I believe my system is very well capable of anything it's thrown at it at the moment, you can't really tell me that an Athlon XP 3200 (faster than a P4 at 3.0 GHz) with 1.5 GB of RAM and a Radeon X800XT Platinum Edition can't handle FPSC!

I can run DOOM3 and QUAKE4 with no problems at all at the highest settings, this simply doesn't make sense. I am more and more convinced that the speed issues are within the software and they will eventually be sorted out (fingers crossed), but as Ben said, if you buy something and spend £29.99 (FPSCv1)+ £44.97 (for 3 packs) = £74.96, you would expect it to do what it is supposed to do, frankly I can't really go out and buy new components (motherboard, cpu, memory and graphics card) just because the software isn't optimised, that is economic suicide. That is also considering that in the pc software business it's always been like that (who cares about optimising...buy a faster pc!).

But your tips about uninstalling are great! I will try them thanks!
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TheDaddy
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 08:58
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@FredP

I am with you! I totally agree...

These machines are far from slow, it's just the software that is having problems it's so obvious. Otherwise D3 or Q4 wouldn't run at all on these systems and we all know they do.

My cpu might not be a dual core or even a quad core but it crunches out just over 21000 points in 3DMark 2001 (and I am using 3DM2001 as a comparison model here, using it as a point of reference). Half-Life 2 flies and the are more polygons in there than in my crappy little game I am making.

I am not spending another £310 (tha's how much the X800Xt PE cost me) every year! This is nuts!

Also think about this: If you must have the latest pc to run FPSC, when you finally release a game who on earth is going to buy it or play it if the average machine can't handle it? What are you going to put on the box (Sorry You Can Only Run This Game If You Have A Fast PC Less Than 6 Months Old, Everyone Else Is Out Of Luck!) see how many you can sell!
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Benjamin A
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 09:34
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Quote: "Ben - Why don't you ask Lee to simple add a feature to use the old lightmapping system? Like an option in the preferences. Might help a bit."


I did an I'm curious to see what he will reply.

Quote: "My philosophy is to keep moving forward."


Mine also, but I'm stuck at the moment

Quote: "Ont the FPSC creator box is says to have a pentium 3 for the miminum requirements. (At least on the box I got.)"


Not on my box, it states P3 1Ghz, 512Mb Ram 64Mb GFX Card.

Quote: "FPSC is a game engine, noit matter how you look at it. It just happens to be a game engine that is very easy to use and that you cna edit the features and don;t have to spend hours editing things, but it is still a game engine, just like any other gam engine. If you downloaded Torque,Maya and even tools like Poser etc. then you would probably have the same problems. "


I was waiting for someone to say that..... Torque runs like a train on my machine, a fast train So does 3D GameStudio A6. Poser...... I'm using it almost daily (for my work, I work from home, so same machine used), check out the picture attached and see what's going on it it (7 fully textured dragons, in the back you see 4 fully armed knights with complete armour on horses, in total there are more then 40 textures used with a size of at least 1024x1024, but often more then that, the landscape is already 3000x3000, so is the water and ground under it). I can render this scene in Poser 6 (1024x768), have Carrara 5 running at the same time, rendering another scene. While both of them are rendering, I'm editing an image in photoshop, while having at least 10 other images opened at the same time. At the same time I'm printing a 30 page comic and still have outlook & IE open, switching between Photoshop, outlook & IE regulary.

But.... I can't even use FPSC for normal levels, only small ones. So don't say it's my system..... if it can handle all of the above at the same time, it should be able to handle FPSC easily. TheDaddy has pointed out well where the real problems are.

http://www.gamefun4u.nl/index.html
GameFun4U, the ultimate funtainment. Cool Games and Resources for your own games.

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GeoNeo
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 19:08
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When I first noticed FPSC, I thought wow what a great program. I didn’t read the complaints in the forums but even if I did I probably would have bought it. At that time the biggest problem was the speed but I got around it by creating smaller levels, reducing the number of dynamic entities and cutting down on physics and lights wherever I could. So I purchased model pack 1,2, and 3 and went on my merry way of game design. After a while these long awaited updates started coming out with much promise. I purchase model pack 4 and 6, after all things are going to get better, I thought. I also bought Signs IV and Magic FPS to speed my segment and entity designs all along hoping that the next fix would solve all the problems with FPSC. Then came the newsletter, and in it TGC staff boast that RC10 of FPSC is the best and final release of the software. Well maybe it is. Maybe TGC came up with a great concept for a game engine but didn’t have the expertise to see it through. This is evident, because in the last release some of the basic functionality is gone.

I have followed all the steps recommended by Lee for installing the latest update. I even went further, I uninstalled the old version, made sure all folders were deleted and there was no reference to them anywhere on my HD. I opened up the registry and manually deleted all keys and threads left by FPSC that I could fine. I ran Ccleaner and Registry Mechanic. With the Same utilities I cleaned the HD, I manually went into the Local Settings\Temp folder and deleted all remaining temp folders and files. I rebooted several times prior to installing version 1, then installing model packs 1, 2, modified version of model pack 3, and then model pack 4, then installing RC10 and finally installing model pack 6.

FPSC ran with proper version showing at boot-up (104). I opened up Terrorstrike and ran it with default settings, no problems that I could see other than the enemy’s died after being shot only once. I changed to Full Shader Effects and the enemy entity’s became invisible. I built a small level and when saving it FPSC crashed. I don’t even want to waste my time testing other options because I know they will fail. So when management pats them selves on the back and proclaim that something is finished when its not, that’s just disappointing. This product sucks big time, we all have been ripped off and none of us will do anything about it because it takes time and effort. So in my case, what’s $200 but a drop in the bucket. I can loose it playing VLT’s in an hour. Therefore I am content to vent my frustration in these here forums.

cheers

GeoNeo
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FredP
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 19:13
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I am sorry you are unhappy with the FPSC.
Some of us don't feel we have been ripped off.
I would expect some upset forum members to respond to your post shortly.

[URL]http://www.wembley1967.com
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tagaxxl
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 19:53
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ha ha ha . I known that i am clever because i solve the problem with the invisible characters. You must repair their .fpe file.
For example:
;cone of sight
coneheight = 53
coneangle = 50

;visualinfo
textured = ai_3_D2.tga
effect = effectbank\bumpbone\bumpbone.fx
castshadow = 0

;decals
decalmax = 2

it must change to :

;cone of sight
coneheight = 53
coneangle = 50

;visualinfo
textured = ai_3_D2.dds
effect =
castshadow = 0

;decals
decalmax = 2
and its work!!! no more invisible !!
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GeoNeo
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 20:31
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I'm past the upset part. I'm simply disappointed. I like FPSC, it's by far the easiest engine to work with, I just wish the programmers would sit down in a room and come up with solutions to existing problems instead of trying to please everyone and add functionality to the program knowing there are bugs that need to be addressed.

For those who are not experiencing any problems with FPSC, thats great I'm happy for you I wish I was one of you. Perhaps you can share your installation process and you PC configurations with those of us who are having problems just in case it is a compatibility issue.

GeoNeo
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bdgbdg
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 20:33
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Just a question: Is Lee still working on this?
He was always on the foruns and all that and now he disapears... is he still working on another FPSC update?

Project FPS - 71%
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Luke314pi
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 20:53
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Hopefully he feels that the best response is a working update.

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Reality Forgotten
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 21:24
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Quote: "I'm past the upset part. I'm simply disappointed. I like FPSC, it's by far the easiest engine to work with, I just wish the programmers would sit down in a room and come up with solutions to existing problems instead of trying to please everyone and add functionality to the program knowing there are bugs that need to be addressed."


I think it is time for you all to get off of Lee's back. Not only is he working to make this program better he is adding things that would be a pain in the but and qutie expensive for most of us to add ourselves. sure, there are bugs but what software doesn't have them? You fix one thing and that fix bugs something else it's a never ending process.

Regards,
RF

Reality Forgotten Dev Forums
In my case, you know, I hate to advocate drugs or liquor, violence, insanity to anyone. But in my case it's worked.
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Nickydude
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 21:46
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Quote: "Just a question: Is Lee still working on this?"


I'm sure I read somewhere that he'll be back on the 15th


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FredP
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 21:49
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Quote: "FPSC is pure amateur hour all the way from its creators down to its community"


You've went all this time without posting...why start ruining the community now...seems like the "amateurs" are you and one or two others who would rather talk smack than try to do anything constructive.
Lee has done a lot to improve FPSC and he will continue to do so.
If you have something to contribute feel free to post.
If you just want to cry then go get yourself a kleenex...don't post it here.
I could open a liquor store with all of the whine in this thread.
It's thread clean-up time.

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PAS
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 21:55
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I have to agree with reality forgotten. I have used game engines and each different engines has its own bug. I have experienced bugs with early versions of #DS Max and Maya. FPSC is no diofferent. I also agree with fredP that the system should work on any computer and my solution was not to say or suggest forget everyone with slow computers, it was jsut a temporary solution so that other people could use the FPSC while lee was working on it. So, with that being said lets focus on some positive points. I have devloped a minit text game just to see if there were any glitches in the exe after a games wa devloped. I have some fairly large, (but levels not to large), created. Everything works fine. Seeing theres no bugs in that, now i ma going to draft out my game levels, then start making the AVI file movies for the story marker sections. I couldn't work on it before due to all the bugs I had until RC10 came out. so now its time for creation time. I am going to make the movie sections consistent with the FPSC imges so that when the story modes of the game are accessed you wont have supreme animation sequences that dont even look like the charahcters you see when playing FPSC. I am relaly glad I bought signs now. I am just going to use the scripts from signs to trigger any text that I want displayed. Dont know if Iwill reocrd and use audio. I hope everyone is doing well with their FPSC programs.

K.l. Phair
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Nickydude
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 22:09
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Quote: "I could open a liquor store with all of the whine in this thread."


lol


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Benjamin A
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 22:18
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Quote: "Not only is he working to make this program better he is adding things that would be a pain in the but and qutie expensive for most of us to add ourselves. sure, there are bugs but what software doesn't have them?"


Now that is called over simplyfying things.... a lot. Sure I've got other software that is slightly buggy, but I don't own any software that is as buggy as FPSC is. With all the other software I can at least create something worthwhile and for most users of FPSC that isn't the case at all. A lot of people have been using FPSC for over a year now, not producing anything due to bugs and hoping they will be fixed.

I do own a lot software and some of it has bugs, but with every application I do won I can create what I want to or what it promises. FPSC is the only one that cannot be used to create what it should create. We're not talking bugs anymore, were talking something else here. Bugs don't stop anyone from using the software to the extend it was created for. FPSC has such flaws in it that most people using didn't do anything serious with even though they do own for over a year now. Compared to all other apps I do own, FPSC is a broken one, not a buggy one.

No one asked Lee to add these expensive things and it's very kind of him to do so, but in the end all we asked for was a working application.... that's what we do long for.

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TheDaddy
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 22:41
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@GeoNeo

I am with you mate, I completely agree, all you had to say is what I am feeling right now. I understand your and others frustration.

I do respect Lee's efforts but it should be simpler than this, I like FPSC a lot but the effort in trying to make it work sometimes is a bit too much.

@tagaxxl

You are clever but you should not have to do all that, it should be a simple installation process, I can't believe that we now have to go through having to modify bits of codes ourselves!
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drew4663
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 22:43
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I agree that Lee has worked very hard on getting FPSC up to par and adding components that would otherwise cost extra money and time to implement. Buuuuuutttt...I can also see some other people's side as well. If money wasn't an issue for me I would substitute a solid working FPSC over free Dark Lights any day. Does that make sense?

If you are in a drive thru and you are handed your food and it's cold you are going to be upset and want to complain to the manager and get what was supposed to be a hot meal. Same with FPSC. A lot of people read the headlines of fpsc in regards to making a game with no coding required and automatically think it's going to be as good as call of duty. So, they are upset that there expectations aren't being met.

I think FPSC has come a long way and is going in the right direction but complaining about what it isn't isn't going to help Lee out at all. We all need to give support and debug the crap out of these updates so that we all can be satisfied. Want a better product? be pro-active in beta-testing and reporting back to the community.
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FredP
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 23:26
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Think about this...Let's say Lee just fixed the bugs and didn't add any features as he goes along.
What do you think is going to happen when he adds the features all at once after fixing everything?

...Here's a hint...
Major disaster...

Lee's not going to back until the 15th.
Since Lee is programming this he probably knows more about what he is doing than we do.
For those of you that haven't been around very long this has been an ongoing process for a while.
You might as well get used to it or find one of the more stable versions of FPSC to use.

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Benjamin A
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 23:43
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Quote: "What do you think is going to happen when he adds the features all at once after fixing everything?"


We at least would have had a stable version version by now?

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TheDaddy
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 23:47
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Which update do you think is the most stable and with most features?

The reason I am asking is so I know which one to install...at the moment I have V1 with 1.02 and pack 1 to 3 (latest 07 ones).

It would be interesting to know what you have...
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Benjamin A
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Posted: 9th Jan 2007 23:58 Edited at: 9th Jan 2007 23:59
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104RC2 works well for me and many others, it's very stable, but has a few bugs, see later. You can also try 104RC6, but I'm having trouble with it when building games. It crashes when initialising entities RC4/5/6 crashes on random entities, there's no pattern in it. This has been reported by more people, but for others it seemed to work fine.

It's just a case of reading the info with the RC's and what people say about them and which one works best for you.

I'm really hoping for the release of a version based on 104RC2, but with the accomplished objectives being saved also and working fog.

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Airslide
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Posted: 10th Jan 2007 00:54 Edited at: 10th Jan 2007 00:57
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Quote: "Sure I've got other software that is slightly buggy, but I don't own any software that is as buggy as FPSC is."


Then you obviosly don't have any of my DBP games

Quote: "I'm really hoping for the release of a version based on 104RC2, but with the accomplished objectives being saved also and working fog."


I doubt Lee will backtrack. Even as a small alternate release, he is probally much more determined to simply come out with a stable release you can work with.

EDIT: Though I must definetly agree with Ben on the fact the program is slow period. I can run Quake 4, Doom 3, BF2142, FEAR, and several other recent top titles (Or are those the only remotly recent ones I have ) on the highest graphical levels (and devote a ton of computer time to AI in the Battlefield series) with a solid 60 FPS in most of them, if not higher (heck, I think Quake 4 is getting like 80...on ultra high mode).

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Benjamin A
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Posted: 10th Jan 2007 00:58
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Quote: "I doubt Lee will backtrack. Even as a small alternate release, he is probally much more determined to simply come out with a stable release you can work with."


As long as he ships a new system to me as well.... my system simple can't handle his newest created, that's why I'm asking for a stable RC2, my system can handle it.

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Airslide
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Posted: 10th Jan 2007 01:10
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Ya, I understand.


And, from other posts, you seem to be convinced it is DarkLights, well this is what I have to say about that:

Ben, to be honest, there is no way you can possibly know it was DEFINETLY Dark Lights. It COULD be some other random change in the program, and extra loop, or a resultingly bad change in an AI command. Who knows. Maybe it is DarkLights, maybe it isn't.

I'm starting to think the best thing would be to force Lee to try and develop FPSC on something other non-alien-hyperdrivedriven-doublequadprocessor-ubervideocard-computer

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Benjamin A
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Posted: 10th Jan 2007 01:22
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Quote: "I'm starting to think the best thing would be to force Lee to try and develop FPSC on something other non-alien-hyperdrivedriven-doublequadprocessor-ubervideocard-computer "


Or at least test in something other non-alien-hyperdrivedriven-doublequadprocessor-ubervideocard-computer.

We´ll hear from Lee what may cause the problem. But even if he fixes it, I´m not really charmed by the 75%-250% increase in game size and that sure is related to Darklights. I´m not to pleased with my levels going from 100Mb to 300Mb in the final build.

Which by the way I´m relating back to my problems, that´s why I do think it has something to do with Darklights, but we´ll see what the master has to say in week or so.

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Reality Forgotten
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Posted: 10th Jan 2007 01:48 Edited at: 10th Jan 2007 01:50
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Quote: "As long as he ships a new system to me as well.... my system simple can't handle his newest created, that's why I'm asking for a stable RC2, my system can handle it."


So what you're saying is that it should developed to a certain extent and then just halted? This engine has to be able to compete on the market. I am glad that Lee is doing what he is doing. If you want to play you got to pay. Thats just how life is.

I say all this negative talk should stop until Lee responds to the emails that were sent to him. Better yet I think they should just stop completely. State your problem and let it be the end of it!

Does no good to beat a dead horse Ben.

Regards,
RF

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uman
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Posted: 10th Jan 2007 02:05
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Benjamin A,

RC2 was and still is the most stable version by far the fastest and smoothest and the best FPSC production platform. Lee knows that but had moved on to a different source version. He wont go back so you have no chance of seeing that happen - Lee made that decision at the time of RC2 when I was testing RC2 and spoke to him about it. Lee categorically told me that he would not continue with the RC2 source despite any one individuals preference for it and that included mine. RC2 is dead and buried.

I have some sympathy with your case as you know and agree that a basic stable engine is more important than anything else otherwise there is simply no worthwhile platform base to develop from.

Whatever the varying opinions and I see merit in all depending upon any individuals point of view and requirement from a game engine FPSC development is still intensively ongoing. I doubt that until DarkAI and any other major features or improvements are built in that Lee will finally look at ironing out all of the udoubtedly many bugs, glitches and issues that various users encounter.

I am not Lee so cant be sure how his thinking works but I guess either one stops along a development route to fix all issues that crop up as you go or otherwise one would I guess take the product to a relatively finished state and then Iron them out in the final analysis of polishing the final product if it is ever to be final and in the case of FPSC I am sure there will be a stage when development will largely come to a complete stop.

That stage however is not yet with us so although I am one of those as mentioned who have been waiting a long time with FPSC basically doing nothing waiting to see the product become what I can use as a stable development platform for my gamemaking I have to trust in Lee to continue to add DarkAI and possibly other features which I personally would welcome and look forward to and additionally at the end of the day then ensure that any obviously nasty issues are dealt with and the product generally polished up all round to remove all but insignificant issues and bugs.

Suggesting that other products of a similar nature have issues, instability, bugs and so forth has nothing to do with this product at all.

I dont see anything wrong with users expecting not to see such things in a commercial product even if the reality is that many do - that dont make it right - it just speaks volumes about the state of the indie engine industry and theres no need to say more about that.

FPSC is in fact perhaps potentially the best such product around but is as I would see it unfinished and does not yet reach the potential that the whole excellent forethought and concept has always promised.

It is still unfair to make a final judgement on the quality of product overall as it is clearly still in development. This by its very nature unfortunately means that some of us have to wait to continue development if indeed the product will finally allow that to be the case in any individuals judgement or decision to use it.



"There are those who said this day would never come - What have they to say Now?"
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the programmer
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Posted: 10th Jan 2007 04:29
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ERRORS

I have a mad compiling issue that i can not solve, lee has failed to answer my email and the forum has become the life line of the 43 levels (i have created).

It seems that i can only compile five levels. If i compile 1 or more it (the fpsc editor) crashes.

This odd issue has left me thinking wether it is my PC or a bug within the program it self?

I really dont no and if anybody has any ideas "im up to try anything"

Cheers
the programmer
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Benjamin A
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Posted: 10th Jan 2007 08:57 Edited at: 10th Jan 2007 08:59
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Quote: "So what you're saying is that it should developed to a certain extent and then just halted?"


No I'm not saying that at all, you're starting to beat on a dead horse now as well, since I've explained my point of view a couple of times. Well for the last time

I'm saying we should have a choice.... I'm fine with V1 with a good working save/load and fog fixed and some other issues that have been fixed already. I've bought FPSC v1 with those features mentioned. All I'm entitled to and all I need is a good working V1.

But there are others who want more, so once there's a stable V1 (basically RC2 fixed), Lee can go on developing and adding all new features that weren't originaly part of FPSC at all. Like dual weapons, Darklights, DarkAI and so on.

By doing that we can all choose what we want and use what works best. Those who just want V1 fixed can use that version, those who want more can use the advanced version.

If Uman is correct, this will never happen and that, but let's see what Lee respond do when he's back.

Going this way, will have a huge advantages for everyone. You can use a stable version to finally finish what you've been working and at the same time look forward to something new for your coming projects.

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TheDaddy
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Posted: 10th Jan 2007 09:44
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Just to let you know, I have noticed that if you are using v1.02 (like me) after a few test game, the engine (or the level you are building) becomes corrupt, the reason I know is that the first few times runs at 33fps but after a few test games and no modification to the level, it will start flaking out and run it at 12 to 22fps.

I am going to install 104rc2 and test it and then 104rc6 and report
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FredP
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Posted: 10th Jan 2007 10:43
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Quote: "lee has failed to answer my email "


There are at least two posts that state Lee won't be back until January 15th.
So if he doesn't respond to your e-mail that's why (now there are three posts in this thread that say Lee won't be back until Jan. 15th).
For the record...
I have a low-end system and I started making a level from scratch as none of my levels (including the stock wwII level included with FPSC) would run properly.
The only major bug that I have noticed so far...as far as I have gotten...is that you can't pick a custom light color anymore.
Everything else seems to work okay at this point.
You might have to start over from scratch...and that would suck...but if you have been around computers long enough you know it happens.

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Mickm
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Posted: 10th Jan 2007 15:42
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Quote: "The only major bug that I have noticed so far...as far as I have gotten...is that you can't pick a custom light color anymore.
"


I am sure everyone has figured this out.. if not well here is a tip for everyone.

Yes, currently you cannot pick a custom light color. However, that does not stop you from using them.

The color values of the lights are in RGB format (Hex). This if you use a color pallette that can output hex (http://www.guistuff.com/tools/css/colorhex.htm) you can get your custom colors from that.

One thing to remember is when entering the colors FPSC is backwards... What i mean is you enter the colors in as BGR so Orange (FF6600) becomes (0066FF).

Here are some colored lights in FPSC V1.04RC10

Blue Lights
Brown Lights
Green Lights
Orange Lights
Red Lights
White Lights

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ctm
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Posted: 10th Jan 2007 16:58
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Quote: "One thing to remember is when entering the colors FPSC is backwards... "


Thanks for the info Mickm !
That'll help very much.
I found it very confusing to get totaly wrong colors when i tiped the hexcodes in FPSC
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GeoNeo
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Posted: 11th Jan 2007 19:25
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I created a couple of signs in SIGNS IV and a walk through wall. The signs should be partially transparent. The part that should be transparent is not in RC10,and you can't walk through walls where you should be able to. I used the falsewall.fpe script on one of the wall entity's and nothing happens when you shoot it. Has anyone else noticed this?

GeoNeo
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Benjamin A
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Posted: 11th Jan 2007 19:46
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Yes, I've noticed, to me it seems like the part is transparent, but you still do see the shadow cast by the object. Check the green arrow in my picture. You only should see the arrow and not the huge square shadow, that's the part that you're not supposed to see, but it's still casting a shadow.

I've tried setting castshadow to 0 but that doesn't solve it.

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Airslide
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 00:13
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Ben - full lightmapping should solve that.

GeoNeo - Set the wall to static and collision should be fine. You mean the arch, right?

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Urlforce Studios
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 09:46 Edited at: 12th Jan 2007 09:48
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I'm sick of it all, everyone who's complaining about stability etc read this very carefully and do the math. Please.
Ok here we go:
Fpsc Package, 50 USD
WWII and scifi packs included, going by the average TGC pack price 20*2=40 USD
50-40=10 (is it not?)
So the game engine really only costed you 10 USD. Now think about this. FPSC's fps engine was programmed in DBPRO. There are over 24500 lines in the engine's source.
Who the heck do you know that you could pay 10 USD for 24500+ lines of code, saving you hundreds if not thousands of hours of work. Then there's the improvements.
With DarkLights already incorporated and DarkAi on the way, you have already gotten more than 10 USD's worth of freebies!
Plus, Lee updates FPSC frequently. At no charge. So you are going cry and moan that your nearly free engine has bugs in it. If you really really really super really want to have FPSC the way you want it and won't stop complaining how your ideas never get in, buy DBPro and get the source!!!
And Ben, your game got published. Good job. But was it you who stayed up late compile after compile, tweaking values here or there, or set up the physics? I think not. No, you dragged and dropped entities, whose existence in the game wouldnt be correct without the former person...
Cut Lee slack.
The poor guy's been working his buttocks off behind YOUR "scenes" and gets a holiday. Good. Now when he returns he'll be back and working hard on providing you with *FREE* updates. Remember he doesn't have to keep updating, even for our money. He can cut and just develop X10 anytime he wants.
BE THANKFUL FOR WHAT YOU HAVE!!! And obviously FPSC is stable enough if your publisher gave it the greenlight and Nvidia agreed to a compo.
You can't really complain about free updates.
I personally think Lee has the right and should charge for these updates... I know I wouldn't mind paying.

He said, "You drink when you're lonely." No I drink when I want!
He said, "You'll never be sober." Sure. Why would I want that?
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Benjamin A
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 09:53
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Quote: "Ben - full lightmapping should solve that."


If softlight maps barely work, do do you think my machine will like that

Quote: "And Ben, your game got published. Good job. But was it you who stayed up late compile after compile, tweaking values here or there, or set up the physics? No, you dragged and dropped entities, whose existence in the game wouldnt be correct without the former person..."


I wish that statement was true..... I really wish that was true.

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