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FPSC Classic Product Chat / Is this the new RC 10 update we've been waiting for?

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Lost in Thought
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 11:54 Edited at: 12th Jan 2007 11:54
I have just ran a few test compiles and everything seems ok here except guns and etc not falling properly when the enemies are shot near stairs. They just seem to float in the air. The FPS are still quite low IMO, but I can have a look at that when the FPSC Source update is released I think. The gun to the left of the crosshair is floating 0_o in this SS.



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GeoNeo
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 13:58
Urlforce Studios!

If this forum is making you sick, don't read it. No one here is complaining, we're just stating the obvious and if it wasn't for us pointing out what's wrong with FPSC then all those updates would not have happened. We all hope that in the end FPSC will be bug free. And we do appreciate Lee's hard work.

GeoNeo
Airslide
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 15:57
Quote: "
If softlight maps barely work, do do you think my machine will like that "


Good point. It is supposed to work with the alpha mapps, though I found with custom entities/segments things sometimes get problematic...

Quote: "I have just ran a few test compiles and everything seems ok here except guns and etc not falling properly when the enemies are shot near stairs. They just seem to float in the air. The FPS are still quite low IMO, but I can have a look at that when the FPSC Source update is released I think. The gun to the left of the crosshair is floating 0_o in this SS."


That's nothing new. The gun is still techniquly attached to the character, it's just hidden.

Reality Forgotten
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 17:21
Quote: "If this forum is making you sick, don't read it. No one here is complaining, we're just stating the obvious and if it wasn't for us pointing out what's wrong with FPSC then all those updates would not have happened. We all hope that in the end FPSC will be bug free. And we do appreciate Lee's hard work."


Stating the obvious happens the first time. Complaining is when someone states the obvious (in their perspective) several times.
I am sorry top say this but Ben you need to update your computer, either evolve with the times or get left behind. It's as simple as that.

To everyone else that is complaining about FPSC, I think it's time for people to relax a bit. I don;t understand the problems that you guys are having, since I am not having the problems that you are all having. I think that alot of people are just being plain stubborn about the help that they are given, and will always find something wrong. I think that Ben has to find soemthing wrong and come here and complain about it. Sorry for calling you out ben you seem to be the ring leader of the "It won't work on my Commadore 64" crew. I admit there area few bugs but nothing show stopping at this moment. I personally think you should upgrade your machine, welcome to an adult industry were it takes money to make money.


Regards,
RF

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Benjamin A
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 17:29 Edited at: 12th Jan 2007 17:33
Quote: "I am sorry top say this but Ben you need to update your computer, either evolve with the times or get left behind. It's as simple as that. "


That is just ridiculous. I've bought V1 and works fine on my machine. It has the obvious bugs and shortcomings and promised features that don't work, but otherwise it runs, smooth. As a customer I'm entitled to having these bugs fixed and promised features working that's all I'm asking for and all I'm entitled to. With whatever update TGC decided to release for V1, they should secure that it still runs fine on the their giving requirements.

They shouldn't update and then say (as you do) sorry guys you need to update your hardware also. That would be ridiculous and I'm pretty sure TGC isn't going to do that. They have to release an update that runs just as well on the specs they gave for V1 as V1 does. I would not consider that treating your customers with respect.

Perhaps a good thing that you aren't part of TGC. It's not a secret that 104RC10 will not run on the by TGC given spec anymore, so TGC has to solve this issue, not me.

As for the rest you've said, I'll just ignore that.... if it was up to you we still would have lived with all of the bugs Lee has been able to fix by us trying to help out.

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Reality Forgotten
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 17:37
Quote: "That is just ridiculous. I've bought V1 and works fine on my machine. It has the obvious bugs and shortcomings and promised features that don't work, but otherwise it runs, smooth. As a customer I'm entitled to having these bugs fixed and promised features working that's all I'm asking for and all I'm entitled to. With whatever update TGC decided to release for V1, they should secure that it still runs fine on the their giving requirements."


i have not updated my machine and it runs just fine. but if a simple upadet like darklights is causing it to prpduce bad results on your machine then you need to update your machine very badly.


Regards,
RF

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Mickm
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 17:42
I think this discussion is getting to "heated"

Everyone should just relax and stay calm before the Mod's start to take actions.

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Benjamin A
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 17:42
b
Quote: "ut if a simple upadet like darklights is causing it to prpduce bad results on your machine then you need to update your machine very badly. "


And that's where you're wrong.... Darklights isn't just a simple update at all.

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FredP
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 17:56
I hate to jump into a fun and entertaining discussion like the one developing here...
Ben,
I am using a low-end pc to run FPSC v1.04 (or whatever you would like to call the latest update) and started making my game from scratch...again.
I remember most of what I had done so it's not as bad as all that...
The latest version seems to run fine on my pc up to this point.
While I haven't been able to do the amount of testing I would like I have to say so far I am happy with the update.

Urlforce Studios
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 18:01
Quote: "To everyone else that is complaining about FPSC, I think it's time for people to relax a bit. I don;t understand the problems that you guys are having, since I am not having the problems that you are all having. I think that alot of people are just being plain stubborn about the help that they are given, and will always find something wrong. "


Ditto. Did anyone actually do the math I talked about...
You can't start a flame war over this. It's not worth it.

He said, "You drink when you're lonely." No I drink when I want!
He said, "You'll never be sober." Sure. Why would I want that?
xplosys
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 18:08 Edited at: 12th Jan 2007 18:18
Sometimes, a persons constant stating of the obvious is more irritating than the problems themselves. WE GET IT! IT'S BROKE! Please stop telling us. Before everyone flies off the handle, stop pushing it, please. When vacation is over, they will get back to fixing it.

[EXCEPTION]Of course if your life really does have no meaning and your entire existence depends totally on the functioning of a $50.00 game engine, then by all means, continue to complain.[/EXCEPTION]

I'm sorry, my answers are limited. You must ask the right question.

Benjamin A
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 18:21
Quote: "I am using a low-end pc to run FPSC v1.04 (or whatever you would like to call the latest update) and started making my game from scratch...again"


Guess I may have to try that, although I don't fancy redoing 40 levels.....

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FredP
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 18:23
I'm not too happy about it myself.
But it's the only thing I have found that works...so I figure that is better than sitting around waiting for it to get fixed.

Nickydude
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 18:55
Perhaps this should be locked until the 15th to avoid any more heated discussion?


TheDaddy
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 20:09
Well what I have to say is chill!

There is nothing we can do until Lee is back and has a go at fixing it because, and please don't take offense, at the moment RC10 on my machines runs very badly (2fps!). I am using v1.02 and re-creating my levels (because once you have installed RC10 and saved the levels, they won't work again on lower versions, which is a pain in the back).

And we now know that it isn't people's pcs but the engine itself, so hopefully Lee will sort it out.

There is nothing wrong in owning a C64 either, the best 8 bit ever so we can drop that too, and people's pcs here aren't C64s anyway.

You can't ask people to upgrade perfectly good and fast machines. They are entitled to a fixed version of the software they paid for, no matter what they paid for (£75 or $50 or 2 cents). It being V1.0 or later versions.

I agree with both parties, Ben and others want to point out their problems, other people are simply asking to wait for Lee.

No one here is slamming Lee for his work, on the contrary.

Please calm down
Reality Forgotten
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 20:28
Quote: "There is nothing wrong in owning a C64 either, the best 8 bit ever so we can drop that too, and people's pcs here aren't C64s anyway."


Was an extreme example....

I do agree the c64 is the best 8 bit out there..


Regards,
RF

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Mr Love
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 21:14
The framerate is a joke in the new update.. I thought they were working on a faster FPSC, not a slower one.. I will install a beta of Directx 10 now, but I dont expect any miracles...


I want to see a FPSC Professional! And lets make it REALLY expensive this time......
KeithC
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 21:17
Quote: "Perhaps this should be locked until the 15th to avoid any more heated discussion?"

Nope; I'm sure Lee would rather keep this opened for anyone who does have a bug to report.

I remember my C64 days......Ah the text adventures.

-Keith

TheDaddy
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 21:37
@Reality forgotten

I know it was an example, long live C64

@KeithC

I had a C64 once...brilliant! Impossible Mission, does anyone remember it? What a game!

@Mr Love
Yeah the framerate is the killer for me (2fps) and waiting to map all the objects! It's like watching paint dry...
Reality Forgotten
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Posted: 12th Jan 2007 22:41
Quote: "The framerate is a joke in the new update.. I thought they were working on a faster FPSC, not a slower one.. I will install a beta of Directx 10 now, but I dont expect any miracles..."


good luvk with that, it's not going to help you. I don't think i need to explain why.

Regards,
RF

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Bane
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Posted: 13th Jan 2007 03:06
I noticed that the blood was changed when I updated my FPSC verison. It looks orange and there's a lot less, why is that? It looked a lot cooler before.
bond1
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Posted: 13th Jan 2007 05:32 Edited at: 13th Jan 2007 05:35
For the record I'm not having any problems either. And I do what FredP does with each update - rebuild my levels from scratch and start new. That way I don't introduce any unknown variables if a problem does come up. It's really not a big deal if you've planned ahead like you should, we're talking click and drag here. It's not like you've lost thousands of lines of programming code.

Making a complete game is hard work. A lot of commercial games go through an extended "crunch" time: weeks or even months of continuous working, not going home, sleeping under your desk, not seeing friends or family. I think FPSC even at is current state is quite an accomplishment

----------------------------------------
"Your mom goes to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://www.hyrumark.com
TheDaddy
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Posted: 13th Jan 2007 09:53
@bond1

Well, I am happy for you, if you haven't got any problems.

About rebuilding all levels from scratch, sorry but that looks to me 1) you have lots of time on your hands, 2) a complete waste of time

Try rebuilding 40+ levels! That would drive you nuts!

You said:"A lot of commercial games go through an extended "crunch" time: weeks or even months of continuous working, not going home, sleeping under your desk, not seeing friends or family. I think FPSC even at is current state is quite an accomplishment"

Yeah but you are talking about companies with hundreds of employees, if someone goes on holiday, he/she is easily replaced, and no one here is saying that FPSC isn't an accomplishment.
bond1
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Posted: 13th Jan 2007 10:32 Edited at: 13th Jan 2007 10:41
Quote: "Try rebuilding 40+ levels! That would drive you nuts!"


Not really, if I knew it had to be done, and I wanted to to know that I was starting with a clean slate.

If I was SERIOUSLY using FPSC to make a 40 level game that I intended to release or sell, you had better believe that I would have planned it out on paper first in great detail. What, maybe a working day or two to rebuild the levels? That's not a big deal in the grand game-making scheme of things.

I DO have plenty of time on my hands at the moment, and anyone wanting to make a complete, polished game had better be willing to devote an insane amount of time to it.


I'm just lucky with the newest release I guess, I'm in love with that new lightmapper I tell ya.

----------------------------------------
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Benjamin A
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Posted: 13th Jan 2007 11:22 Edited at: 13th Jan 2007 11:27
Quote: "If I was SERIOUSLY using FPSC to make a 40 level game that I intended to release or sell, you had better believe that I would have planned it out on paper first in great detail. What, maybe a working day or two to rebuild the levels? That's not a big deal in the grand game-making scheme of things. "


I've done so and it's all on paper, but 40 levels in 2 days, I don't think so, not even with darg and drop. Besides, dragging and dropping is only half of creating a level and you should know that. Assigning scripts, adding decals, entities, setting all of the wanted features on the entities. That takes far more for then 2 days for 40 levels.

The there's the light issue. It takes time to set up lights well and Darklights and the old lightmapper are very different. So you have to relight everything and then test each level to see if the new lights are bringing the desired result.

Rebuilding 40 levels isn't going to be 2 days, getting the perfect light setting alone can take up half a day for one level.

Quote: "I DO have plenty of time on my hands at the moment, and anyone wanting to make a complete, polished game had better be willing to devote an insane amount of time to it."


Lucky you. I do agree, but I've already spent that insane amount of time on those levels and now due to circumstances beyond my control I have to do it all again?

Some of you make it all sound so easy, but we all know it's not that easy at all. If it really was, we would see a lot of finished games around here and we don't. Rebuilding levels from scatch even if you have plotted it all out on paper still takes a tremendous time of work.

I've started to rebuild and said to myself, I must be crazy to do so. I'm NOT going to do all of that work once again. Especially not when the chance is very great that I have to do it all once again, if Lee decides to change the engine once again in such a way that old levels don't work anymore. Also I'm still stuck with the huge increase of HD space build games use up in this ne build, I'm not to fond of that.

So I've considered it all and decided to go back to RC2 definitely now. I'm not going to spent weeks on rebuilding my levels, with a good chance that I will have to rebuild them once again in a while. I'm not going to rebuild anything until FPSC Lee is done playing with FPSC and has released the final update, or until he has perhaps granted my request. Until that time, I'll stick to RC2 and release what I do have with that version.

If ever I do start a new project, I can always switch to a newer version. For now, I do think rebuilding levels is a complete waste of time, who knows what happens with the next update, you may have found out that you've wasted a lot of time rebuilding levels you can use anymore.

So for me it will be back to RC2 and hold of for new projects until the final release of FPSC V1 is released. Hey, isn't that what a good number of people are doing around here? Seems like I may join the passive users for a while, we've got plenty of those already, so one more can't really hurt.

Quote: "I DO have plenty of time on my hands at the moment"


No you don't, you're supposed to get all the cool fantasy models ready for us

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TheDaddy
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Posted: 13th Jan 2007 12:57
@bond1

As Ben said, you haven't got time, go and make those models
uman
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Posted: 13th Jan 2007 16:41
The question of the current standing of the condition of any gamemaking software is perhaps arguable at any stage in its history.

Still despite anyones differing opinions what matters is how many games are actually made and completed with a game engine and there are at this momnent in time very few games being completed.

Currently as a click and play engine few are able to make a game worthy of note - as said by others it is a very difficult task indeed to make a complete game with FPSC - not how it was intended or designed initially to be at all.



"There are those who said this day would never come - What have they to say Now?"
Reality Forgotten
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Posted: 13th Jan 2007 17:50
I think the best we all can do is utilise what has been given to us.

Regards,
RF


TheDaddy
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Posted: 13th Jan 2007 18:07
@uman and Reality Forgotten

I agree, that's why I am sticking with the only version of FPSC that works for me, v1.02
TheDaddy
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Posted: 13th Jan 2007 22:42
Erm...I don't know if this is because I am using v1.02 but when an enemy comes close to a wall or a door his gun sticks through the wall/door! Anyone having/had the same problem?

Also when the enemy dies near a wall, he falls inside, so you can see half the body out half in...weird, maybe I am doing something wrong...

I tried a search but couldn't find an answer...thanks
Benjamin A
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Posted: 14th Jan 2007 00:18
@TheDaddy: Nothing to do with RC1.02, that always has been the case and still is, even in the latest release.

@uman: totally agree with you and it's a fact that finished games (not just single levels) proves a game engines worth. Granted FPSC is a new player, but it's been out for one and a half year and we see little results. I do find that very sad, especially when I do read threads like these. FPSC is so great, it's so wonderful, it works so fine, we should utilise what we have. We here that motnh after month, but the truth is that after a lot of work being done on a game, in the end the problems FPSC has been facing since V1 will kill your game or cripple it greatly.

While FPSC is presented as the game engine that will make your dreams come true with a drag and drop, most of know that using FPSC rather is a nightmare and it will never allow you to design the real dreams you have. You can create an OK game with FPSC, just don't expect to much of it.

Before someone reminds me of how I created Commander Josh and even did get a publisher.... yes true, but developing it was a nightmare and the way it turned out to be isn't even close to my dreams. The main reason I did get a publisher is due it's original slant I added to it, that makes it somewhat sellable and interesting for a publisher. But without that it's just one of a million no one is really waiting for.

When I did buy FPSC I had great dreams, I now realize the never will become true with FPSC, very unfortunate Looking at what most of you are creating, your levels and abandoning them again due to problems, having trouble creating what you want really want, no releasing games due to whatever stops you, I'd say we're all in the same boat, some have not realized it yet or don't want to admit.

My sequel of Commander Josh should go beyond what I've already released, problem is, there is no beyond, I've reached the ceiling already and that's becoming more and more clear to me. FPSC has limits, I knew that, but by now I do realize these limits are even more limiting as I expected them to be.

That's why my game design will be passive for a while, but I'll still use FPSC. I've bought it also for creating 3D teaching enviroments and FPSC does that well, but it wasn't created for that. For that I don't need Darklights or DarkAI or any of the other features. No guns, AI or other pure fps features used. FPSC works for that, but I guess none of you have bought FPSC for that reason.

So, you will see less of me in the coming time, I'll be more passive, following things from the sidelines. I'll be doing other things, since game creation will be on the backburner for a while. I'll hang around to see what will happen to the competition(s) running, got everything ready for that, but it has been a nightmare and a struggle to create those levels. Time to relax, leave FPSC game creation for what it is, focus on other things in life.

So keep on discussing these matters, enjoy Lee's coming updates and I will hear from all of you if they're any good or not

Most of all, keep on hoping that one day FPSC will allow our real dreams to come true! When that day arrives I'll be enjoying game creation with FPSC once again. If it doesn't come, then there's more to live then creating games with FPSC. At any rate I'll still be using FPSC a while longer, but not for games.

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Airslide
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Posted: 14th Jan 2007 00:21
Quote: "Erm...I don't know if this is because I am using v1.02 but when an enemy comes close to a wall or a door his gun sticks through the wall/door! Anyone having/had the same problem?

Also when the enemy dies near a wall, he falls inside, so you can see half the body out half in...weird, maybe I am doing something wrong..."


You can't really fix that. It's because the game engine doesn't have ragdolls, and doesn't push their gun back when they are up against a wall - infact, very few games do that...

TheDaddy
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Posted: 14th Jan 2007 09:41
@Ben and Airslide

Thanks for the info!

Has any of you been able to avoid this little problem, do you use a special script or just left it in your games?

Thanks again
Avenging Eagle
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Posted: 14th Jan 2007 10:37
I have to say, i do like this edition and am very pleased with the results. I still have my character transparency issues, but only if their destroy script is leavecorpse.fpi (that script seems to cause many problems...)

AE

Benjamin A
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Posted: 14th Jan 2007 19:25
Quote: "Has any of you been able to avoid this little problem, do you use a special script or just left it in your games?"


No solution, scripting will not solve anything, so I just left it in my games.

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TheDaddy
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Posted: 14th Jan 2007 20:57
@ Ben

Thanks for the info.
morphosis comics009
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Posted: 15th Jan 2007 15:32 Edited at: 15th Jan 2007 20:41
I ordered Model pack 6 and noticed after I paid that I need the fpsc update 1.04. I DO NOT want this update because it is buggy. This update is needed for the model pack to work right. It never said, when I bought MP6 I needed the 1.04 update to use model pack 6.....
morphosis comics009
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Posted: 15th Jan 2007 15:53
Ok,
I own Model pack 6... how do i install 104RC2 instead of the final 1.04?
Benjamin A
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Posted: 15th Jan 2007 22:31 Edited at: 15th Jan 2007 22:34
HELPFULL INFO FOR USING 1.04RC10!

Lee replied to my questions so I'm going to relay to you what he stated. First of all there isn't going to be an alternative update as some had hoped for, so that's out of the question.

But Lee gave me a solution for those of us facing problems with 1.04 and it solved a number of problems for me. Filesize is normal again, so no more 200% larger games. Framerate is up and crashes when testing/building are less. Also FPSC is able to handle older (pre RC10) levels again, even larger ones then before. I'm also able to build multiple levels into a stand-alone game again.

Here's what Lee suggested:

Quote: "Try going into the setup.ini and changing the line: lightmapquality=50 to read lightmapquality=10, then run FPSCreator.exe and try a level and let me know if this solves the size/speed issue for you."


It solved a number of problems as stated before, but not everything. Small and medium sized levels work now, but there is a drop in framerate, up to 10fps at times. Most of the time the framerate was good, but it had random drops up to 10fps at times, for no reason at all. Did not experience these drops in RC2 or below.

Level size is still a problem. Go too large and FPSC will still crash. With too large, I do mean a 15x15x3 sized level, with a good number of lights, static and dynamic entities in it. Anything below that seems to work pretty well, but as soon as I go to that size or beyond, I experience crashes. Large levels that still build do have a huge framerate drop. While the level will run 25-32fps on RC2 and lower, the same level (even when re-designed for RC10) will run at 3-10fps.

Perhaps Lee knows some more of these undocumented tweaks that will allow larger levels to build and run well in FPSC also

So, those of you having problems can perhaps try the same and see what the results are?

I'm also wondering about these figures and how the influence 1.04's behaviour.

lightmapzerorange=100
lightmapatten=16
lightmapboost=4
lightmapblurmode=1
lightmapthreadmax=4

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FredP
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Posted: 15th Jan 2007 23:13
Lee gave me the same suggestion.
I am working with the lightmapquality at 20 or 25.
I have found out that fps improved and my test levels are now running on full lightmapping...at least to this point.

Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 16th Jan 2007 00:06
So is there going to be a RC11?

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uman
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Posted: 16th Jan 2007 09:46 Edited at: 16th Jan 2007 09:49
Benjamin A,

Thanks for the info.

Those kind of statistics would be totally useless to me. Personally I have not and will not even attempt to use RC10. I shall keep FPSC on the shelf and await improvements to the product via any further update or X10 so it would seem. Failing that it stays shelved forever.



"There are those who said this day would never come - What have they to say Now?"
chuckie
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Posted: 16th Jan 2007 11:22
I've lost shader effects, or maybe just the illumination map, on segments and entities with the v1.04 update. I uninstalled all updates/model packs and did a fresh install of v1, built a room with shader effects and they all work.

I then re-installed model packs and 1.04 and built the same room, but shaders do not work.

Please see screenshots in my post in the bug forum here http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=97905&b=28

Is anyone else experiencing this problem?

Cheers
Chuckie

Pentium 4 2.4GHz, 512MB RAM, nVidia GeForce FX5200 128MB, Detonator Driver v77.77, Windows XP Pro SP2.
gps
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Posted: 16th Jan 2007 20:29
Quote: "I've lost shader effects, or maybe just the illumination map, on segments and entities with the v1.04 update. I uninstalled all updates/model packs and did a fresh install of v1, built a room with shader effects and they all work.

I then re-installed model packs and 1.04 and built the same room, but shaders do not work.

Is anyone else experiencing this problem?"



Yep, I'm having exactly the same problem. No illumination mapping - while all the other shaders seem to work. This is more than a little annoying as the only shader effect I planned on using was illumination mapping.

BTW, my graphics card is a GeForce 6200 256Mb

Cheers

- Graham

jonathan samson
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Posted: 18th Jan 2007 02:51 Edited at: 18th Jan 2007 02:51
Will there be anymore updates for FPSC i wondering because the frame rate has gotten worse with this upgrade. i would like to see a RC11 or 1.05

j.samson
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Cellbloc Studios
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Posted: 18th Jan 2007 04:19
Yeah, I already asked that.... still waiting....

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Benjamin A
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Posted: 18th Jan 2007 15:01
Yes, he's still working on it, he asked several of us to sent him new levels for problems solving.

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LeeBamber
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Posted: 19th Jan 2007 16:31
Hi Guys,

Seems the holiday has created a huge V104 RC10 thread in my absence Lots of juicy reports for me to get stuck into. I have been updating a few things and getting my 2007 systems up and running. I have also started the new V105 update, and have fixed the colour picker and selection bar splitter resize control bugs.

I am VERY interested in getting zipped up FPM levels (using only default assets) that I can test game or build game with which crash the software or clearly show some visual weirdness. When you send me your FPM levels in a zip, remember to mention the preferences settings you are using and confirm that you are using a fresh install of V1.00 + V104.

Naturally I will go through this thread and pick out the serious issues reported, but there is nothing better than having a reproductable bug handed to you via email that shows you the bug on your own machine within 5 minutes My email is lee@thegamecreators.com. Avoid sending large zips or zips that contain custom media as I want to focus on what the default software provides initially (though I include official model packs in this scope).

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TheDaddy
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Posted: 19th Jan 2007 18:19
@Lee

Thanks. I am looking forward to seeing the new update at work
bdgbdg
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Posted: 19th Jan 2007 19:39
E-mail sent to Lee.

Hope you can fix those bugs...

Project FPS - 71%

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