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Work in Progress / BlitzTerrain

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KISTech
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Posted: 7th Sep 2011 01:20
Quote: "So your saying just create the X model, 3DS model, and DBO model, and heightmap image, and texture map image, and detail map image, and just sell it as-is?"


Which is what several people have been telling you for weeks.

kaedroho
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Posted: 7th Sep 2011 01:31
No, you just create the heightmap, texture and detailmap. X, 3DS and DBO are not very good for terrains.

You can load them into a program to take screenshots of them and use that as eye candy.


Also, I haven't got a request through on skype.

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Mugen Wizardry
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Posted: 7th Sep 2011 01:32
I think cuz u blocked me when we got into a fight. I cant even remember what it's about. o.o;

CHECK OUT MY WEBSITE AT http://imageposeidon.com/ !
kaedroho
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Posted: 7th Sep 2011 01:35 Edited at: 7th Sep 2011 15:27
It says here that you're offline so maybe you blocked me too.

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Mugen Wizardry
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Posted: 7th Sep 2011 01:37
i dont want reminding. thats in the past now. ANYway. I unblocked u. unless skype screwed up again and reblocked my unblocked contacts -.-

CHECK OUT MY WEBSITE AT http://imageposeidon.com/ !
Mugen Wizardry
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Posted: 7th Sep 2011 01:38
yea, ur unblocked

CHECK OUT MY WEBSITE AT http://imageposeidon.com/ !
kaedroho
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Posted: 9th Sep 2011 01:10
Everything is setup now and ready to code


Updated todo list:

Fix multi camera issue
Fix lines bug
Fix camera masking
Fix holes when using Quad Reduction

Finish Quad Reduction (needs to reduce right to the edges)

Add terrain stitching (Allows LOD across 2 terrains which are next to each other; makes terrain streaming possible)
Add terrain rotation and curving (makes spherical terrains possible)

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Duffer
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Posted: 9th Sep 2011 21:26
@ Kaedroho,

All sounds good - glad to hear you are pushing this on - it's a superb plugin.... Can't wait for spherical terrains and terrain streaming...

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
kaedroho
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Posted: 18th Sep 2011 14:37
Just a few updates so far.

Rewrote all memory allocation code. It now aims for few but large mallocs. This makes loading speed faster and less chance of memory leaks.

Added camera masking to the auto render code.
JackDawson
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Posted: 18th Sep 2011 17:23
Sounds good Kaedroho. Do you have a date as to when the updated full version will be released ?

"Life is like a box of chocolates.. eat it before it melts."
kaedroho
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Posted: 18th Sep 2011 17:29
Not sure actually. It will probably be around Christmas.
JackDawson
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Posted: 18th Sep 2011 17:39
Awesome. I look forward to it. Thank you Kaedroho.

"Life is like a box of chocolates.. eat it before it melts."
kaedroho
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Posted: 16th Oct 2011 19:23
Just a quick update.

I'm still working on the terrain streaming. Work has been slower than expected because I started a degree in computing last month and that's been more work than I thought it would be!

Although slower than I thought it would be, progress is being made! Hopefully will have something to show around Christmas.
kaedroho
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Posted: 16th Oct 2011 19:54 Edited at: 16th Oct 2011 20:18
If anyone's interested in knowing, heres how the streaming will work.

The streaming system will be sector based. This is slightly slower but its much smoother than switching huge areas at a time.

The terrain will be split into regions. Each region will have 64 sectors each (8x8 grid).

The BT SaveTerrain will be changed to add support for regions.

Terrains larger than 4096x4096 will be supported. (there will be no size limit).





I've been itching to do lots of things to improve BlitzTerrain but haven't been able to because they will break peoples code.

- Remove BT EnableAutoRender and add BT EnableManualRender. Make auto render enabled by default.

- Remove the build loop.

- Change BT SetTerrain split to use powers of 2 instead of a normal number. For example BT SetTerrainSplit 32 will become BT SetTerrainSplit 5.

- Make terrain ids and object ids the same thing.

Theres a few more things I'd like to do. I will get these over with some time and call the release BlitzTerrain 3.0.
dbpro2011
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Posted: 19th Oct 2011 12:00
I developed a program to accelerate Darkbasic
It decompiles the code and assembler optimizes transitions JP.
it is still under development, but already working.

Try my program with BlitzTerrain

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=190429&b=30

http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=190429&b=30
CumQuaT
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Posted: 1st Nov 2011 04:04
Is there a way to replace the heightmap of a BT object once it's already been built?

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Duffer
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2011 08:54
@ Kaedroho,

How goes it with BT 3.0? Will it have the streaming and spherical terrains?

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
CumQuaT
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Posted: 29th Dec 2011 09:20
I've noticed that you can only create and then delete a Blitzterrain object a certain number of times before it crashes... For example, if I was to use the following code, it would break:



And it does it after only about 4 terrains have been made/deleted... So I thought I'd send through this email, as our game needs to be able to continually build and destroy terrain objects. Did you have any tips at all?

kaedroho
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Posted: 29th Dec 2011 15:08 Edited at: 29th Dec 2011 15:20
Does it crash when you fully build the terrain and delete it 4 times?

I'll have a look into this, thanks for reporting it.

EDIT: Just tried the code and it seems to work fine for me. Except I'm using the dev version. I have recently changed the memory management in BlitzTerrain so that might have solved your problem.
CumQuaT
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Posted: 29th Dec 2011 16:37 Edited at: 29th Dec 2011 17:03
Sounds good. Might just be best for me to hold out until the update How's that going? Or has your degree been slowing you down. I know how busy they can keep you...

Alaror
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Posted: 30th Dec 2011 19:50
Hey, just wanted to see if what I'd like to do is possible with your plugin.

Right now I'm using the native MATRIX commands to display my terrain, despite them not being optimized in the least. My game is 2d with a platformer view using simple blocks (tiles) to display the terrain. All of the maps are randomly generated, so I would need the ability to assign specific textures (such as stone, dirt, etc) to individual sections of the map in real-time.

Another thing I'd need to do is have multiple terrain layers. One would be used as the base layer, a few for liquids, one for foreground objects, etc. I would need to be able to specify which layer appears above objects and which appear below them

Is this possible? Let me know if I didn't describe something in enough detail.
KISTech
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2012 19:37
Looking forward to the update.

There are many things I would still like to do with BT.

kaedroho
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Posted: 26th Jan 2012 13:05 Edited at: 26th Jan 2012 13:05
Hey everyone, Sorry for the lack of updates recently.

I'm hoping to get this small update out soon to solve some crashes and make memory management better. Nothing major will appear in the next version, mainly bug fixes.

As for these big streaming features and spherical terrain. I haven't worked on those very much recently. I got a some work done on the streaming but its too early to show yet.

I'm still supporting BlitzTerrain and these features will get in eventually...



As for the BlitzTerrain 3 idea, I might start a little open source terrain project that everyone can contribute to which supports lots of platforms. Then release it under a liberal license (not GPL) so it can be used in commercial projects freely. That should solve all requests to make it for other platforms and also provide a way on it being supported if I ever get hit by a bus or something. I won't release the code for BlitzTerrain as this would be unfair on those who paid for it (TGC might complain too). I'd like one of the aims to be to get a 2048x2048 terrain running smoothly on a Raspberry Pi.

Let me know what you guys think about that.
CumQuaT
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Posted: 26th Jan 2012 13:08
I think it sounds fantastic. I've been looking into Raspberry Pi myself (loved their quake 3 demo!) and if your software could work on that, it'd be amazing!

I love your work! Keep on rocking!


kaedroho
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Posted: 20th Feb 2012 13:30 Edited at: 20th Feb 2012 13:31
Just a quick update, I've been working on a new terrain engine that I've called OpenTerrain. I've got quite a lot done so far, including loading, building and rendering terrains in 3D.

It currently only runs on Linux using OpenGL but the main idea is that it can easily be made to run on different operating systems using different graphics APIs.

It will (hopefully) support streaming from the start. This is because I've separated the terrain loading part from the rest of the system. It should be possible to have terrains that stream from a file on your PC, stream from a network and generate on the go.

Of course, the whole thing will be released open source under the zlib license. This will allow you to use the source code in your own engines and port it to other engines like Unity or UDK, this will also allow you to sell anything you make with it. I'll be focusing my development on OpenTerrain and Blitzwerks Terrain 3 (which will be an OpenTerrain wrapper).

As for licensing for Blitzwerks Terrain 3. I will remain similar to Blitzwerks Terrain 2. There will be a free and a full version, both closed source.
Chenak
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Posted: 20th Feb 2012 22:55
Any info about the fixes for the current version? I'm still having problems with deleting terrains..
kaedroho
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Posted: 6th Mar 2012 19:41
Hey everyone

Sorry that this has taken a while, I've attached Blitzwerks Terrain 2.03 R1. I've redone the memory management in this version and it will hopefully solve the crashes. Let me know if this solves the bug and I'll get the full version sent off to TGC.

Thanks for your patience

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JackDawson
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Posted: 6th Mar 2012 19:54
Thank you Kaidriho.. I'll check it out when I get the chance.

"Life is like a box of chocolates.. eat it before it melts."
kaedroho
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Posted: 6th Mar 2012 21:09 Edited at: 7th Mar 2012 10:33
That file above will become version 2.3 if it solves the issues. I have started work on 2.4. This release won't bring many new features but will bring a major structural change. I am changing BT to remove some dependency on DBPro and modularise/cleanup the code. This is so I can move code from BT2 straight into OT/BT3.

I would like to do some things that may result in code breaking:

Remove the build loop - The build loop used to help produce a loading bar but 90% of the building is no longer done in the build loop for speed and stability reasons. So I'd like to remove this

Auto render by default - Adds simplicity

Remove the Load Terrain and Save Terrain functions - This will greatly reduce the amount of code. BT currently has implementations for 3 file formats. Every time I change BT, I have to add a new file format. Instead, I would like to create an export height map function.

Advanced Terrain mode per terrain instead of whole system - Currently, when you enable AT mode, everything in BT switches to AT mode. I'd like to allow it to be set for some terrains but not others.

Remove some manual render functions - Remove set current camera, update terrain cull and update terrain lod. Instead, Just have a render terrain function which takes a camera as a variable, the rest will be done automatically.

Remove Environment Mapping and replace it with "ZoneMapping" - The idea here is that the current environment mapping system only allows one environment map per terrain. I would like to separate environment maps and terrains allowing multuple environment maps to be applied to one terrain and vice versa. As environment maps can be used for things other than saying what bit is grass and what bit is sand, etc. You can also use them for stuff like who owns a piece of land. So renaming the system to Zone mapping makes sense. It will work just as before except the set terrain environment map will be removed. Get point environment will take another parameter called "Terrain" to say what terrain to check against. Zone mapping can acctually go in a separate plugin.

If anyone has any suggestions, let me know. I'd also like to know anything that you find difficult in BT.
gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 7th Mar 2012 01:33
@kaedroho

thanks I will give it a try but I have not ever had a crash

just getting around the fact that the examples were built for
DBP 7.7 of which I got no plans to use

the one command it has is not available in 7.61 which I do trust and use

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
kaedroho
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Posted: 7th Mar 2012 10:33 Edited at: 7th Mar 2012 10:36
The examples were built for DBPro 7.5. The command youre missing is probably in the Matrix1utils. Have you installed that?

Also, just added a chunk of text in the above post about environment mapping.
kaedroho
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Posted: 8th Mar 2012 01:20 Edited at: 8th Mar 2012 01:21
Couple of things done today:

Removed build loop
Removed Load/Save commands

I'll be adding an export heightmap function to replace the Load/Save commands.
kaedroho
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Posted: 9th Mar 2012 15:24
Just going to post this again:

https://forumfiles.thegamecreators.com/download/2323373

This is the new update to BT (free version). Could someone who had the deleting problems with the previous version try this to see if it solves these issues? As soon as this test is done, I can get the update sent off to TGC.
Duffer
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Posted: 10th Mar 2012 07:26
@ Kaedroho,

Sounding good.

To calm the worriers in the audience (me), can you just add in a litte about your thinking re the export/ (import?) heightmap (colour heightmap as well?) commands in to the future and why the loss of the load/save commands is no biggee, in fact a good thing....?

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
kaedroho
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Posted: 10th Mar 2012 11:21 Edited at: 10th Mar 2012 11:33
Most of the code was in the file saving/loading part. It was mainly the filetype I came up with that was at fault here.

The Pros were:
Very fast (can be loaded continuously (not a single seek needed to load) )
No settings needed (can also be a con as you could not change any settings!)

Cons:
Too close to the internal structure (This made changing the internal structure of BT really hard)
Very large file sizes (but they did compress really well)
Settings cannot be changed
Very complicated (People creating editors who don't want to use BT will have difficulty saving/loading this format)
Any change in BT required a change in the file format too. (This was the big thing, it really slowed down development and maintaining backwards compatibility was difficult)


What I'd like to do is come up with a simpler format. One which I can change BT but would not need to change the format. Maybe a zip file containing various images and an xml for settings? (This would be very similar to ODF).



Another thing I've decided to do is instead of making a DBPro version with a GDK wrapper, make a GDK version with a DBPro wrapper. DBPro has weird ways on moving data. The DBPro part uses these weird ways but the GDK wrapper converts them back to normal. This will reduce code complexity a bit more. There won't be any major speed increase by doing this though. This is also how the DBPro libraries are made.
Hawkblood
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Posted: 14th Mar 2012 03:19
I plan to use something like this in my next game. I've searched this thread for "shadow" and found a few references, but I still don't know if shadow mapping works with BT. Does it?

I've downloaded the GDK demo version. Are there any problems with shadows in this version? I want to give this a test drive before I buy it...

The fastest code is the code never written.
gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 29th Mar 2012 05:19
any word on when the updated BlitzTerrain will come out ?

I just bought a windows 7 maxed out laptop

the only thing I had to do for example was rebuild a few examples
since windows 7 is messed up some ware by ms dumb thinking

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
Kezzla
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Posted: 1st Apr 2012 14:00
Quote: "If anyone has any suggestions, let me know. I'd also like to know anything that you find difficult in BT. "


one thing I would suggest adding would be the ability to have lod for the texturemap. it would be cool to have an overall texturemap for distant terrrain, and to have the option of a user defined grid of images used for local texturemapping.

I like to use blitzterrain to make enourmous terrains. I find that even with a large texturemap the pixels can be huge and result in blocky texturing.

even something like subdivide terrain, where a large blitzterrain is split into a grid of smaller ones, each of which is an individual blitz terrain which are all left in place and seamlessly joined. then the quality of texture mapping would be improved plus greater general resolution.

I would also like to be able to flatten a cirle of terrain at the selected height rather than an average.(good for flattening land under buildings and stuff)

also shave down(but not raise lower terrain), or raise up(and not lower higher terrain)

It would be cool to add a brush pattern to the paint tool, maybe select an image with the brush pattern and paint with that.(ive experimented with using the paint terrain feature for blood spatter. it looks cool but needs a for loop where an image could do it in one go)

um... thats about all I got. I dont mean to be naggy, these are just suggestions I have for the plugin that would take it from kickarse to extremely kickarse.

love your work.
kezzla

Sometimes I like to use words out of contents
Hawkblood
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Posted: 7th Apr 2012 16:05
Still no answer to my question?
Quote: "I plan to use something like this in my next game. I've searched this thread for "shadow" and found a few references, but I still don't know if shadow mapping works with BT. Does it?

I've downloaded the GDK demo version. Are there any problems with shadows in this version? I want to give this a test drive before I buy it...

"


The fastest code is the code never written.
Duffer
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Posted: 7th May 2012 13:13
@ kaedroho,

Just pinging to see how this/these plugin(s) are coming along?

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
ActionSaxon
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Posted: 8th May 2012 13:22
@kaedroho: I've just noticed that you've posted an update to the free version in an attempt to rectify the delete terrain crashes. I'm currently using the full version which does crash on the 3rd execution of the BT BuildTerrain command. With the following code you need to press the 'l' key to create a terrain and the ';' to delete them - (sorry, I've just quickly rehashed the smoothing example code to test it).



On the full version it crashes on two separate pcs (both only using XP)on the third attempt to build the terrain; it cites blitzterrain.dll as the faulting ModName at offset 00009d11.


With the new free version - it still crashes on the 3rd attempt to build the terrain but it cites ModName mscvr100.dll this time at Offset 00001ed7.

Unfortunately, I've been unable to implement this fine-looking plugin up to now because of this bug. If you need any further info/tests etc. then just let me know, I'm happy to help in any way I can.
kaedroho
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Posted: 8th May 2012 18:24 Edited at: 8th May 2012 18:25
Sorry for not responding for a while.

HawkBlood,

If shadows work in the free version, they should also work in the full version. Both versions work the same way when it comes to shaders.

Duffer,

I haven't done much work recently on BlitzTerrain. OpenTerrain is doing some rendering under OpenGL/Linux. I don't use Windows much nowadays. I might just remove DBPro dependency from BlitzTerrain and release that open source instead.

ActionSaxon,

I posted an update to see if anyone will test it to check if it solves the crash. You're the first person to tell me what happens. I'll have another look into it.
gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 8th May 2012 19:58
@kaedroho

ummm that would be a major bummer to remove the dependency's for DBP

and with the addition you were going to add it would have been complete as it gets

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
CumQuaT
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Posted: 10th May 2012 03:40
Hey kaedroho, I'm trying to use Blitzterrain with Evolved's Advanced Lighting system (shaders) and I'm getting some pretty nasty weirdness... (see screenshot)

To me, it looks like the Blitzterrain plugin uses cameras in some way and it's messing with the advanced lighting cameras... Have you ever seen this happen? Do you by any chance know how to fix it?


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CumQuaT
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Posted: 10th May 2012 13:18 Edited at: 10th May 2012 15:20
Hmmm... I fixed that problem, but now the terrain object is invisible....


Arbrakan
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Posted: 22nd May 2012 18:19
Hi CumQuaT, I have the same problem, I try to use Blitzwerk with Evolved's Advanced Lighting system, and now my game look like your screenshot, How do you fix it ? I have try the "BT SetCurrentCamera" but noting change, any pro tips for me to help fix it ?

Thanks.

BEAST
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Posted: 29th Jun 2012 21:21
how can i get my hand on the free Blitzwerks i am having with find free effect ()

BM
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Posted: 30th Jun 2012 02:54
Quote: "i am having with find free effect ()"

do you have matrix utils?

Humanoid
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Posted: 6th Jul 2012 10:40
Why BT not support 16 bit desktop mode? *crash*

kaedroho
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Posted: 6th Jul 2012 11:58 Edited at: 6th Jul 2012 12:04
Quote: "ummm that would be a major bummer to remove the dependency's for DBP"


I'm not removing support for DBPro, just separating it from the main part of BT. This will make it so BT doesn't depend on DBPro.

CumQuaT, Looks like the edge lines are the problem. They've caused a lot of problems. I'll look into getting those sorted out for the next update.

Quote: "Why BT not support 16 bit desktop mode? *crash*"


I haven't tested BT in 16 bit mode, I'll look into this.


I've recently got back to work on BlitzTerrain (I've been doing bits and pieces over the past year but now I'm hoping to get back to the way development was before). I've mainly been doing code cleanup for now. I'm getting everything into classes. All is going well so far.

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