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Work in Progress / BlitzTerrain

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KISTech
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Posted: 22nd May 2009 20:27
True, great program. It doesn't have this kind of LOD or a plan for Streaming Terrain does it? (I've not kept up with it's development.)

If we could just combine ExtendedTerrainXYZ with BlitzTerrain, that would be truly outstanding.

The Wilderbeast
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Posted: 23rd May 2009 11:11
Well if ExtendedTerrainXYZ exports as heightmaps then this is no problem. If it supports plugins then it would be quite simple to write one to export the occlusion maps etc.

KISTech
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Posted: 23rd May 2009 21:25
Hmm.. Then if it could export detail maps once you've blended your textures...

kaedroho
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Posted: 23rd May 2009 22:04 Edited at: 23rd May 2009 22:05
Thanks for all the comments

A new feature that i could add (which ive just made up on the spot) is something that i call 3D Heightmaps. Instead of positioning points on the y axis, it will beable to position points in all 3 dimentions. The only problem is that triangles will have to be attached to the same indices so you cant have caves. But you can have completely vertical cliffs and slopes that go backwards (slopes that are more steeper than 90 degrees).

This will unfortunately take up 3x as much data, so 3x as much hard drive space and 3x as much RAM.

BMacZero
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Posted: 23rd May 2009 22:19
Ooh, that sounds interesting. How do you make a "3D heightmap"?

P.S: I'd pay at least $40 if you made it work with caves



kaedroho
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Posted: 23rd May 2009 23:27 Edited at: 23rd May 2009 23:28
Caves might acctually be possible, just you have to position some vertices in the same place to make it round. And LOD will still work inside the cave too.

3D Heightmaps

Well, you all know that white = higher and black = lower on your traditional greyscale 1D heightmaps. in 3D heightmaps there is 3 images put together. One for height, One for X position of vertices and One for Z position of vertices. This allows you to position any vertex anywhere on the terrain. This can allow caves to be made, but are complicated to generate.

One more idea made, and one more idea just given away on the internet . I doubt anyone would be bothered to make it (except me of course).

The Wilderbeast
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Posted: 24th May 2009 19:08
You do have a habit of inventing systems for just about everything possible

Dragon Knight
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Posted: 24th May 2009 19:17
look at the way crisis made their caves, excellent, just putting in sphere's now that's innovative thinking

Lost in Thought
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Posted: 25th May 2009 12:34
For another solution you could use the r value for height, g for x, and b for z. Won't be as accurtae, but may work for less accuracy needing terrains. Take 3 grayscale maps and merge them into one colormap. In any case I'm looking forward to the release of this.

kaedroho
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Posted: 26th May 2009 18:47 Edited at: 26th May 2009 19:13
Thanks for all the comments and I think youll all be glad to know that im now back in Oxford.

Ill be starting work on BlitzTerrain shortly. In the mean time, I will be moving the whole Blitzwerks forum into Devstorm, using their new offer to give game developers a board on their forums so they dont have to go through all the hard work of getting people onto their own forums. I thought that ill take this offer as Blitzwerks is lacking some activity at the moment.


Heres a link to the new forum:
http://devstorm.phpbbnew.com/viewforum.php?f=22

And heres a link to the offer incase anyone else is interested:
http://devstorm.phpbbnew.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=37

jeffhuys
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Posted: 30th May 2009 17:13 Edited at: 30th May 2009 17:16
kaedroho - is there a way to get the ground height at a certain position?

Edit: Sorry, found it
http://technology.blitzwerks.co.uk/BlitzTerrain/Help/commands/UT_GETGROUNDHEIGHT.html



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kaedroho
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Posted: 31st May 2009 00:37
I now have a new PC .

Special thanks to djchaos.

New Specs:

Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB
AMD Anthlon x64 X2 Dual Core 4000+ @ 2.6GHz
1GB RAM (upgrading to 3GB on tuesday)
250GB Hard Drive
Windows 7


Duffer
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Posted: 31st May 2009 00:59
@ kaedroho,

Nicely done...

With BlitzTerrain and this 3 image 3d heightmap thingy - can you leave it with versatility perhaps to load conventional grayscale, then the 32 bit colour heightmap, then the full blown 3d (multi image?) thing? - and perhaps some conversion commands - would make it more versatile / compatible....?

Also, have you considered (with the Pro version) some 'brush' commands - so not just setting the height at a point on the terrain by way of a command but perhaps also a/some brushes to allow for a hill / cone / dent etc?

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
jeffhuys
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 18:35
Kaedroho - My game suddenly won't show the terrain (maybe because of dll update (haven't updated the dll in some time))?

Code:



Thanks


Jeff



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KISTech
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 19:16
Not to pester you, but how are things coming? Is the terrain streaming coming together?

BTW, nice specs on the new rig.

Diggsey
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 21:51
Quote: "Good old Aspergers"

Believe me, it's not the aspergers


Btw, for these 3D heightmaps, there is no point having 3 images, just use red for X, green for Y and blue for Z

AndrewT
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 22:07
Quote: "Btw, for these 3D heightmaps, there is no point having 3 images, just use red for X, green for Y and blue for Z "


Someone already suggested this, but as they pointed out having only 256 different values for X, Y, and Z kind of restricts you a bit.

i like orange
kaedroho
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 22:34
Quote: "Not to pester you, but how are things coming? Is the terrain streaming coming together?"


Well, I just finished installing DBPro onto my PC. I just need to finnish one project before though. My shooting engine which has been in development for some time now. And ive left loads of people waiting for months for Version 3. So ill be working on that for the next week. Then ill install Visual Studio and get back to work on BlitzTerrain.


KISTech
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2009 22:47 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2009 22:51
Quote: "Someone already suggested this, but as they pointed out having only 256 different values for X, Y, and Z kind of restricts you a bit."


What about if you use those values as an offset from the base value? or perhaps, since you're processing the data in a logical pattern, what about as an offset to the previous value. The first value would have to be an absolute position with zero offset.

(just thinking out loud..)

Quote: "So ill be working on that for the next week. Then ill install Visual Studio and get back to work on BlitzTerrain."


Both will come in handy for the project I'm hoping to use them in, so that works.

kaedroho
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2009 16:45 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2009 16:45
Just been fixing the odd bug here and there for now. Im posting each bug in the following thread as I kill them and each feature as I add them:

http://devstorm.phpbbnew.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=39


Duffer
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Posted: 4th Jun 2009 22:55
@ kaedroho,

Hope the BlitzEngine isnt destracting you..

As well as a set terrain point height type command in the Pro version of Blitz Terrain, have you considered a / some brush commands to effect terrain point heights / contours in an area - ie. rounded, cone, concave - that sort of thing? just a thought - dont let it distract you from first releast of BlitzTerrainPro...

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
kaedroho
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Posted: 4th Jun 2009 23:07 Edited at: 4th Jun 2009 23:10
Yep, I saw your previous post. Ill put a thread up on devstorm about that feature shortly.

Dont worry about Blitzwerks Engine. We have a team of 5 working on it at the moment, so they don't always need me. If you've been following the thread on Devstorm, you'll know exactly what im doing.

We do have a 'UT RaiseTerrain x#,z#,radius#,amount#' function and the same for lowering. Ill add some more brushes though.

http://devstorm.phpbbnew.com/viewforum.php?f=24

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
kaedroho
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Posted: 4th Jun 2009 23:29 Edited at: 4th Jun 2009 23:34
2 more equasions:


maxinumsplit=heightmapsize/64

minimumsplit=heightmapsize/(2/0.5^(LODLevels-1))

keep an eye on these when using the UT SetTerrainSplit command


I also added support for colour heightmaps yesturday.

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
kaedroho
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Posted: 6th Jun 2009 02:18 Edited at: 6th Jun 2009 02:20
Visual Studio 2008 Professional is installed . I was going to take a look at 2010 Beta 1 but I wouldnt take the risk of using betas for making programs to be released.

I now got to get hold of my C++ code. Ever since I got my new PC my brother has taken the RAM and my Graphics card from MY old pc WITHOUT MY PERMISSION and is proving difficult to get back as he has my parents on his side. I BROUGHT THOSE PARTS!!!

He fried all his old stuff because of overclocking. I have a bad feeling that he didnt learn from that... :S

Well, I have 3 options. Rewrite BlitzTerrain, make an IDE hard drive work in a non IDE computer or kill my brother.

I will raid his pc on monday while hes at college

Lucky ive been developing it on DBPro, then just converting my changes to C++ then compiling. I have the DBPro code as that was on my laptop which remained in 1 piece.

I will be working like mad over the weekend fixing the bugs and adding the features on the above link. Then hopefully another release next week.


[EDIT] Heres the link again incase anyone missed it:
http://devstorm.phpbbnew.com/viewforum.php?f=24

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
Herakles
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Posted: 6th Jun 2009 02:38
If you bought the parts, then he has no right to steal them from you. In fact, if he refuses to give them back to you, he's technically committing a felony. It doesn't matter if you're under 18 or if he's family, if it's your property, he's committing theft by taking it and using it without your permission. And if he overclocks and breaks the stuff, then that's destruction of property (vandalism). You shouldn't press any charges, family is family, but you could still threaten to.

Swordfight! My cheesy little first game!
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=147808&b=36
trogdor
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Posted: 6th Jun 2009 04:47
Quote: "Well, I have 3 options. Rewrite BlitzTerrain, make an IDE hard drive work in a non IDE computer or kill my brother."

option 1: Too much work
option 2: A usb hard drive enclosure should solve it but it costs money
option 3: Is the quickest and easiest...

Quote: "I will raid his pc on monday while hes at college"

Could we help in your raid?? I\'m sure we have couple of ninjas on the forums who live close to you

Good luck, and keep us posted

Last night I lay in bed looking up at the stars in the sky and I thought to myself, where the heck is the ceiling.
kaedroho
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Posted: 7th Jun 2009 16:06 Edited at: 7th Jun 2009 16:06
Thanks for the posts

Sorry, had to go out yesturday.. So ill continue work on Beta 1.05 today.


If you find a bug, or think of a feature, or anything else. Please go to the following link and make a whole topic about it! If you just post it here then I may just look at it, write it down somewhere and then forget about it .

Link: http://devstorm.phpbbnew.com/viewforum.php?f=24


For people who like to follow the progress of this project, please bookmark the following link:

Link: http://devstorm.phpbbnew.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=39

I will be using that thread for all versions, ill just change the thread title everytime I make a release.


For users of BlitzTerrain, who want to be kept up to date on the latest version, Please bookmark the following link:

Link: http://devstorm.phpbbnew.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=38

That will hopefully be updated again on monday.

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
Duffer
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Posted: 7th Jun 2009 17:49 Edited at: 7th Jun 2009 17:50
@ kaedroho,

Good grief, just checked out your threads - really hope my brush idea isnt going to feature creep this wonderful plugin to death... trying to introduce 3 different types of brush for different types of erosion... that would have the boys over at Terragen2 worried...

It kind of tempts the armchair enthusiasts (like me) to suggest all sorts of stuff. For instance, you could have a water run command where you define the terrain point, volume of water, flow type etc and the command part erodes and part paints the terrain to add a stream, river, lake etc - at least the contours and base colour...

No, forget I ever suggested it - put that lot back to v.3.99!

The pro version with what's already envisaged and load and save commands - my credit card is at the ready.

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
Roxas
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Posted: 7th Jun 2009 17:53
Quote: "He fried all his old stuff because of overclocking. I have a bad feeling that he didnt learn from that... :S"


He must suck, it's pretty hard to Fry parts with overclocking if you dont rise the voltage usage to top and top the FSB Clock.

Anyways, if you dont need the old parts i would let your brother to use them.. He is your brother anyways.

kaedroho
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Posted: 7th Jun 2009 18:56
Duffer and Roxas, Thanks for the comments

I need them to get my code off my old PC. (the C++ code)

I'm currently doing a FULL code cleanup. The amount of times I rewrite stuff and old features that never got finished are slowing down the code. I'm also commenting it all because before, there wasn't a single comment D:. This has also allowed me to see quite a few hidden bugs. You can find current progress on the following link:

http://devstorm.phpbbnew.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=39

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
kaedroho
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Posted: 7th Jun 2009 22:42 Edited at: 7th Jun 2009 22:44
Good news, I got the parts back . Ill have the code back tomorrow, as for now im cleaning up the code and discovering alot of bugs while doing it. Im not in the main part yet :S.

Just coming up to line 1000 out of 5000. The cleanup will be finnished by tonight.

Which means by tomorrow you will experience a much faster and stabler BlitzTerrain!

Also ill be adding some commands to delete stuff, check if stuff exists and to check for errors early tomorrow. Then ill fix a few bugs (click link on the post above). Convert my changes (now theres alot to convert!) then release the dll. Hopefully all done by tomorrow night. Or the day after.

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
BMacZero
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Posted: 7th Jun 2009 23:45
Yay, glad to hear it .



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kaedroho
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Posted: 8th Jun 2009 19:56
Sorry guys, had to have an engineering exam earlier. And got pulled off my PC last night for revision.

I'm now half way through the code clean up. I just got 'UT BuildTerrain' and 'UT ContinueBuild' left to do then I'm on the internal commands which control most of the insides of BlitzTerrain.

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
kaedroho
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Posted: 9th Jun 2009 20:12 Edited at: 9th Jun 2009 20:12
Made a logo earlier..



What do you think?

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.

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jeffhuys
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Posted: 9th Jun 2009 20:18
woah! Nice!



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Duffer
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Posted: 9th Jun 2009 20:50
Striking....

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
BMacZero
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Posted: 10th Jun 2009 00:23
Cool .



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kaedroho
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Posted: 10th Jun 2009 01:10 Edited at: 10th Jun 2009 03:06
Thanks for the comments

A new plan for texture modes:

Texture mode 1 (advanced terrain) will be finished hopefully before the release of 1.05 (I only need to find out how textures are applied to advanced terrain). This will solve these "texture mistakes" reports that I keep getting because base textures are applied to the vertexdata diffuse which change as LOD levels change. This will make the terrain look alot better when you have your LOD distances set low (the lower the faster the system runs).

Texture mode 2 (infinite multi texture) will be removed as it eats VRAM and the same effect is possible with shaders. So its a waste of time developing it. Instead, ill be having our shader team busy writing shaders for 8 stage multi texturing.


EDIT: GOOD NEWS! I have found the code that is not allowing sectors to fit together properly with sectors more than 1 lod level below! Which means that when ive fixed it, you can have very low LOD levels fitting with very high lod levels. Allowing flat areas of ground to be kept at a very low LOD level meaning FPS will fly much higher than it currently is!!! And there wouldn't be a very high visual impact!

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
draknir_
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Posted: 10th Jun 2009 16:48
Sounds awesome!
kaedroho
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Posted: 11th Jun 2009 21:57
I have now found out where this jerkiness is coming from.

When the FPS is between 30 and 80. The simulation tends to get a bit jerky. I have now solved this by smoothing the timers on the app.

replace:

elapsedtime#=(timer()-start)/1000.0
start#=timer()

with:

old#=elapsedtime#
elapsedtime#=(timer()-start)/1000.0
start#=timer()
elapsedtime#=elapsedtime#*0.3+old#*0.7


this eliminates the jerkiness COMPLETELY!

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
Duffer
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Posted: 11th Jun 2009 22:58
@ kaedroho,

OK - is that going to be code within the dll?

(probably missing the point)

How goes the bug hunt and save/load/delete stuff?

a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
kaedroho
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 01:43
Quote: "OK - is that going to be code within the dll?"


No that code is to smooth out your timer based movement system if you use one. Timer based movement is whats causing the jerkyness.

bug hunt is continuing as of 5 minutes ago. Ive just recoded the LOD seam system to be faster, and beable to fix 4:1 seams. Instead of just 2:1 seams.

Infact, it will fix any type of seam you throw at it. 8:1 16:1, all of them.


If you don't know what seam ratio is. Check the attached image.

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.

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kaedroho
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 01:58 Edited at: 12th Jun 2009 02:14
Heres a screenshot of 4:1 seams being fixed.





Heres the current change list for the 1.05 release:



Follow this here: http://devstorm.phpbbnew.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=39&p=76#p76



!!!! JUST 2 MORE THINGS TO GET DONE BEFORE THE RELEASE !!!!

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.

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BMacZero
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 02:19
Wooo!



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kaedroho
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 02:37 Edited at: 12th Jun 2009 02:39
Added some more commands:



Heres the 2 things ill be doing later today (its midnight, so i'm off to bed soon)

- Add deleting commands
- Fix normals bug
- Release!

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
kaedroho
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 02:49 Edited at: 12th Jun 2009 02:50
Code compiles successfully with VS 2008 Professional. So when ive converted beta 1.05 (which hopefully wont be a beta), should be out the door very soon after

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
Herakles
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 03:25
So this "release" is going to be the free version? If so, when's the pro version due for release?

Swordfight! My cheesy little first game!
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kaedroho
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 15:11 Edited at: 12th Jun 2009 16:23
Only the free version for now. The full version will be released when I've added all the extra features and got a publisher for it.

There will be a problem with the deleting commands, as multiple terrains make it extremely difficult to deallocate anything as it will mess with the indices of the other terrains. You either deallocate the whole arrays or don't deallocate anything at all. However it is possible to deallocate chunks of arrays then work out the new indices of everything you didn't deallocate, but there will be bugs. The system will delete all object data though.

So I've decided to make a new function called UT Reset. This will completely reset the whole plugin and deallocate everything. This will automatically be done if you delete all the terrains but you can call this function whenever you want to go back into a menu, etc.

This will be solved when ive done a full C++ port. And stop using DBPro for development.

If you don't understand that then please ask me to go over it again, Autism + Tiredness does not make a very good explainer.

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
kaedroho
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 16:31
Deleting is done.

Just 1 more bug to fix now!

New specs: Nvidia Geforce 9600GS 768MB, AMD Anthlon x64 X2 4000+ (2.6GHz Dual core), 3GB DDR2 800MHz RAM and a big hard drive.
draknir_
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Posted: 12th Jun 2009 18:27
Quote: "There will be a problem with the deleting commands, as multiple terrains make it extremely difficult to deallocate anything as it will mess with the indices of the other terrains. You either deallocate the whole arrays or don't deallocate anything at all. However it is possible to deallocate chunks of arrays then work out the new indices of everything you didn't deallocate, but there will be bugs. The system will delete all object data though.

So I've decided to make a new function called UT Reset. This will completely reset the whole plugin and deallocate everything. This will automatically be done if you delete all the terrains but you can call this function whenever you want to go back into a menu, etc."


How does this work with terrain streaming? Does the plugin automatically delete terrains when the camera gets too far away?

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