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Work in Progress / BlitzTerrain

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James H
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Posted: 19th Mar 2009 20:16
Sorry man, still doesn`t work, same error. I`m going to finish my rig later if I get chance and try it on that. I`ll test with/without other plugins and report back. I haven`t said it yet but this does look good and I love the fact there is a free version(I think I read that?)
kaedroho
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Posted: 19th Mar 2009 21:13 Edited at: 19th Mar 2009 21:13
yep, there is a free version. The current beta has all the features of the free version. I may increase some of the features as soon as the feature list has been decided.

So basically, the Beta IS the free version. But only a few bugs away from being complete.

Mugen Wizardry
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Posted: 19th Mar 2009 22:20
Can this load a heightmap, texture it seamlessly w/ colormap & detailmap at ANY size?
kaedroho
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Posted: 19th Mar 2009 22:26 Edited at: 19th Mar 2009 22:30
The current beta is limited to 512x512 maxinum.

The full version will have upto 4096x4096 (the maxinum texture size).

The full version will also support up to 256 terrains. And you can have a different heightmap each terrain, and position each terrain so they fit together. Now thats one big terrain. You would need a hell of alot of ram to run it though. But yes, its possible.

It will also take a long time to generate. UberTerrain managed to generate a 2048x2048 in about 6 minutes.

James H
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Posted: 20th Mar 2009 01:58
Its a no go on this other machine with xp - I just get send error report to microsoft - not to worry as its almost definately this old machine. I don`t get the error if I rem out UT commands, If I type wait key prior to any UT commands in the demo I still get the error, it never gets to the first line so it must be the inclusion of the dll. Its very likely direct x as I cannot update beyond aug 07!! Keeps telling me my processor doesn`t support some sort of streaming - it could also be down to only having 128mb ram. Most other stuff seems to work of what I`ve tested DBP wise(not plugins - yet to try out). The error report is attatched, although I doubt you would have many users with such low end hardware, plus if I`m honest I`m not in any position to spend 1 penny for at least several months.
I don`t think its dx on my Vista machine though as it is up to date(5 days ago). Perhaps its an issue that will only occur on a handfull of machine setups - you might look towards getting as many beta testers as possible to see just how common it is. I hope it isn`t common, that would be a great shame.

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kaedroho
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Posted: 20th Mar 2009 17:55 Edited at: 20th Mar 2009 19:38
Its probly not DirectX as it works on your Vista machine.

The problem is with some code I put in the constructor function. This function is called before any DBPro code is called to start the Plugin.

I will have a look now, and see if I can spot anything. Ill report back if I do.

EDIT: I found where I used a function from DBProCore.dll in the Constructor, which souldnt be there. It has been removed. Im going to reupload as soon as I got it tested.

James H
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2009 00:36
Managed to get it working on this old heap - Athlon 700, Geforce2 32mb, 128 ram @ 70-90 fps!! (manged to update to dxmarch08 eventually but sadly nothing later) Its very jerky, but it is a low spec machine. There are seams and pinholes too. The seams issue looks more like normals not being right(I`ll play with some more tommorrow) and the pinholes issue is something I`ve had and dealt with when making a memblock terrain. The answer to the pinholes for me was to use direct cartesian references rather than offset references. I hope that makes sense, anyhow well done so far and keep going, it looks really good.
kaedroho
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2009 00:39
Excellent, thanks for your help!

The jerkyness appears when the FPS goes lower than 120. Which is why we never got it in the DBPro version. (the DBPro version is 2x as fast). Hopefully, the dll will catch up soon.

James H
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2009 19:43
Ok, tested this a bit now. If the scale is increased, the pinholes become large gaps. They always appear on LOD seams and limb seams. The bigger the scale the larger the gaps. I suspect you will see the same if you just increase the scale and y scale to 100 and 10, increase the viewrange# to 50000.0 too. As for the jerkiness, its gone almost if I just limit frame rate to 30. Attached are some images. They are in pairs(wire and nonwire from same angle and position) and taken sequentially. In folder 1 ; they show the normals issue and pinholes on the LOD seams - the last one shows pinholes on a closeup aswell as normals issue - uvs match fine. In folder 2 the scale has been increased and mainly shows the large gaps, and some differences with uvs and LOD meshes(didn`t increase LOD ranges so you can get closer to edge of LOD mesh).

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kaedroho
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Posted: 22nd Mar 2009 20:52
Thanks for your help! its greatly appreaciated!

I have increased the size of each sector by 1.0001 which reduces the ammount of "pinholes" bit doesnt fully get rid of them yet.

By default, the texture is applied with Vertexdata diffuse. So lower LOD levels appear to have a lower texture detail. This will be solved by using 'UT SetTerrainTextureMode 1' which applies both base texture and detailmap as textures and uses blendmapping to blend them.


The normals issue is still there though. Ill make sure that is sorted by the release.

Again, Thanks for your help

kaedroho
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Posted: 23rd Mar 2009 19:33
ok the seams in folder 2 are caused by when a LODA trys to fit with a LODC.

LODAs can only fit with LODBs and LODBs can only fit with LODCs

if you look closely at the edge, the edge of the sector closest to the camera has changed to LODB.


Im planning a rewrite of the anti seam system to get rid of the jitters. Ill add this to the list too.

Thanks for your help!

kaedroho
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Posted: 24th Mar 2009 21:50
I would like to announce a new feature that ive started working on.

Its called Sector Detail.

Each sector will have a detail level which is a number ranging from - LODLevels to LODLevels (ie, if you using 4 LODlevels it will be any number in between -4 and 4).

This overrides the LOD calculation system and displays a more lower/higher detail sector.

if you set the detail to the same as the number of LODLevels, the highest LOD will always be shown.

If you set it to negative of the number of the LODLevels, it will always display the most lowest LOD.

If you set it to 0. It will be a perfect balance. Which is what its like right now.

This detail number is automatically calculated, but you may override it if you wish using the sector commands (WIP).

Plotinus
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Posted: 29th Mar 2009 14:46
This looks very impressive. But I'm having difficulty running it.

When I compile the demo, I get:

Runtime Error 55 - Array specified must be a single dimension array for this type of command at line 19

The line in question is:

terrain=UT MakeTerrain()

So I'm a bit baffled by how the UT MakeTerrain function is supposed to work. Have I done something wrong?

Thanks!

(By the way, the exchange rate currently favours Americans - pounds are worth more than dollars, but the low pound right now means that the pound is worth fewer dollars than usual. A year or two ago, £20 would have been about $40.)
kaedroho
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Posted: 29th Mar 2009 17:50 Edited at: 29th Mar 2009 22:42
That error only occurs in Windows Vista. All XP tests have worked fine. Its a DBPro problem and usually that error would appear in build terrain. ALL the arrays inside the dll are single dimention (even the point height ones).



Ok, converting the latest release.

Better Frustum Culling
Much better on ram
More Speed
Bugs fixed

Only 1 problem, the seams on the side of each sector which is caused by the normals are still there. There is a way to solve it in this release though.

Should get a FULL release out in 1 - 2 weeks.

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Plotinus
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Posted: 29th Mar 2009 23:28
Ah, thanks. I'm guessing that means I can't use it with Vista at all then? Running it in compatibility mode doesn't seem to make any difference.
kaedroho
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Posted: 1st Apr 2009 22:37 Edited at: 2nd Apr 2009 01:24
Im working on the compactibility right now! Im going to make sure that it runs on all pcs before the full version gets released.


EDIT: Found the problem, now solving another minor error, then im going to test on vista. Hopefully, it will work. If it works, ill start working full time on the Help files while the new beta gets tested.

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kaedroho
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2009 00:34 Edited at: 3rd Apr 2009 00:50
I can now confirm that the Vista bug is gone!

Ill have the FREE release out by next week!

The FULL will be out as soon as we get a deal with someone.


Im also thinking about renaming UberTerrain to BlitzTerrain. So its named after the company instead of a game engine which looks abandoned. It also sounds better

kaedroho
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2009 19:59 Edited at: 3rd Apr 2009 21:06
UberTerrain FULL version will be called BlitzTerrain. The FREE version will continue to be called UberTerrain.

Back to work now. Ill report any changes I make.

EDIT: The bug is gone! Release will be shortly.

ANOTHER EDIT: The speed bug hasnt got anything to do with the dll. It must be the objects that the system is creating.

kaedroho
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Posted: 3rd Apr 2009 22:04
Beta 1.02 release!

UberTerrain now works on vista!!
Much better on RAM
Faster FPS rates


Download:

RAR

ZIP

Siddy
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 10:48
Demo starts, loads, then when user has control im stuck in the corner, only able to move up and down. Ie, i cant fly around and see the LOD working
kaedroho
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 12:34
Comment out these lines. They limit the camera position



Lost in Thought
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 14:49
Yep all seems go here except when there is no terrain in site the min amount of polys it will drop to is like 4k or so ... shouldn't the frustum culling drop it to 0 if the terrain is way out of site?

kaedroho
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Posted: 4th Apr 2009 15:07 Edited at: 4th Apr 2009 15:08
I did have the same problem earlier. But I solved it by making the dll return floats properly. There is a temporary solution to this which is to comment out all of the camera limiting code. (all the ifs which look like 'if camera position (x,y or z) ( < or > ) somevariable').

kaedroho
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Posted: 8th Apr 2009 18:27
Has anyone else had any problems with the latest release?

Ive recently got rid of 7 more bugs that my internal testers have found which is why I havnt posted much recently.

Ive decided to also rename the free version to BlitzTerrain (it sounds a hell of alot better I think).

BlitzTerrain is finnished. I have made some help files for it too. I will upload it all as soon as I get a website up and running.

kaedroho
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Posted: 8th Apr 2009 19:49
Blitzwerks website is fully up and running now.

Find it here

You will find BlitzTerrain under Technology.

CuCuMBeR
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Posted: 8th Apr 2009 22:43 Edited at: 8th Apr 2009 22:44
same seams again.


There is always one more imbecile than you counted on.

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kaedroho
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Posted: 9th Apr 2009 05:06 Edited at: 9th Apr 2009 05:11
You should stop setting the LOD distances to less than the sectorsize then. Use any value but keep it higher than the sector size. This is because its making a LODA meet with a LODC. the LODA sector thinks that the LODC sector is a LODB sector. So it sets the side to LODB. Which doesnt fit with LODC.

It is acctually a bug. But not a very serious one because most people wont use a LOD system in this way.

The system is designed to make any sector fit with any sector. But unfortunately, it seems to only work with a LOD Level below. This WILL be fixed when I add Sector detail. because that will make LODAs try to fit with LODCs


LODA = highest LOD Level
LODB = lower LOD level
LODC = even lower LOD level

James H
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Posted: 9th Apr 2009 08:53
TBH I get the same if I only alter the scale values in the demo. With no alterations to the demo at all, there are still pinholes though its less noticable than before. The normals are still not right. In fact it looks as though smoothed normals are only averaged per mesh. Good to see you got passed the vista issue though.
I`m pretty sure you singled out a command as the problem in one of your previous posts but can`t see it now - you probably edited it - wasn`t it a DGDK command? I recall it started with db, was wondering if its the case ie if its possible to create a dll from DGDK whats the downside?
kaedroho
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Posted: 9th Apr 2009 12:47 Edited at: 9th Apr 2009 12:49
There was problems with my array code in build terrain.

The normals are still a problem. You can right now use set object light Objnum,0 (in the build loop). And texture it with a texture with a prerendered shadowmap over it. Ill have the problem fixed in beta 1.03.

I dont get any pinholes on any of my computers. I did increase the size of each sector a bit in the last beta. Still not fitting.


If you alter the scale value, make sure you also alter the LOD distances. If they go lower than the sector size, it will start to mess up.

Sectorsize=(heightmapsize*scale)/split

Plotinus
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Posted: 9th Apr 2009 21:10 Edited at: 11th Apr 2009 00:12
Fantastic. Thank you for solving the compatibility issues, kaedroho. I'll be using this for sure.

[EDIT] Working absolutely fine, no problems at all, as far as I can see.
Lost in Thought
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Posted: 9th Apr 2009 21:49
Should we set it to be larger than the corner to corner size of the sectors in case walking along them at an angle? In the free version of your plugin you could just make it be the min LOD distance couldn't you?.

kaedroho
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Posted: 9th Apr 2009 22:47
Yeah, ill put that in.

sectorsize=(heightmapsize*scale)/split
MinimumLoddistance=sqrt(2.0*sectorsize*sectorsize)/2.0

BMacZero
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Posted: 10th Apr 2009 03:41
Hey, I just started using UberTerrain with DarkPHYSICS, and it works excellently with the PHY MAKE RIGID BODY STATIC TERRAIN command.

However, this also led me to discover a really bad bug (not related to DarkPhysics). It seems from this code that whenever the MAKE OBJECT SPHERE command or any other make object command is used, the camera's position and rotation are reset to 0. I know it isn't just the FreeObject function, because I tried it with several different random constants as object numbers and still got the same results.

Of course this can be worked around by simply repositioning the camera after you make an object, but that's rather annoying. Thought you should know.

Code I'm using:





James H
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Posted: 10th Apr 2009 03:54
autocam off!
BMacZero
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Posted: 10th Apr 2009 03:56 Edited at: 10th Apr 2009 03:58
Agggh!! *facepalm*

Thanks!



Duffer
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Posted: 18th Apr 2009 18:08
@ kaedroho,

How goes it? ETA for Pro version?

Also, are you / have you considered allowing for some fractal commands (to generate heightmaps / reset heightmaps)?

Also, think there was mention (maybe not by you!) of perhaps some commands to seem or join one terrain edge to another???

Any update news gratefully received!



a long time dabbler with DBC and DBPro with no actual talent but lots of enthusiasm...
kaedroho
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Posted: 18th Apr 2009 20:49 Edited at: 18th Apr 2009 20:53
Thanks for comments!

No fractal commands are planned yet. This is easy to do by the user, by putting a generated heightmap through the build, or by using the RTMS commands.

I think you mean joining each sectors together and keep them joined when the LOD updates. Its also easy to join the edges together by making your heightmap have the same edge. Or using the 'get ground height' and 'set point height' functions.

Mostly over the past 2 weeks ive been adding quite alot of optimisation and Pretty much rewritten about a quarter of the system (about 1000 lines).

I have (hopefully...) solved the pinhole bug. Ive changed the way that it gets the ground height to make it a little more accurate. Expect this new fix in the next update.

Right now im working on getting normals to be smoothed accross sectors. This will solve a seam issue. It will also make it difficult to update the normals while using the RTMS.

I also have to get the LOD seams updating with sectors more than 1 lod level lower than itself. This will allow flat areas to stay low detail and give another FPS boost.

Texture mode 1 is on the way. It will work very similarly to Advanced Terrain. The original texture mode uses vertexdata diffuse for colouring the terrain which makes it look very low detail on low detail sectors.

kaedroho
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Posted: 20th Apr 2009 19:52
Ive been working on an Open Source FPS engine over the past 2 weeks. Now im going to put that aside and work on BlitzTerrain full time.


Before the release:

Solve the Normals bug

Make some helpfiles

Add a proper error reporting system in

Make LOD seams fix for Sectors more than 1 lod level smaller.

Make its own filetype and scrap image heightmaps. (this will solve the 16bit image bug).


After the release:

Fix any and all bugs that get reported. (I understand how frustrating this is when its not the developers first priority)

Add a new terrain streaming algorithm. (I know how its going to work. Test code is still in WIP)

Sector detail. - Flat sectors have less polys than high detail sectors.

Better Frustum Culling - Needs some improvements.

Niels Henriksen
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Posted: 26th Apr 2009 00:33
@kaedroho - Looks very good.... have you been thinking about making it possible to use in GDK and GDK.NET?

Niels Henriksen
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kaedroho
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Posted: 26th Apr 2009 02:23
Yep, its going to be released for GDK a bit later. I havnt looked into GDK.net yet, ill look soon.

Mobiius
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Posted: 27th Apr 2009 14:09
Not ran any of the demos yet but it sounds awesome. If it works for me as well as it sounds then I'll be getting me some of this action!

Well done and keep up the good work!

Your signature has been erased by a mod because it is way too awesome!
Bedford
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Posted: 30th Apr 2009 16:04
Hi all,

Great plugin, this is a real nice work. The idea of LOD is just fantastic...

Unfortunately I see always the same problem. The way the rounded hill are done isn't realistic. It may be in England , but not on other parts of the world...
Try to put a way to create cliffs, cutting edge mountains and so on. Also how would you create a road along this terrain ? Try to guess somebody trying to create a drive simulator or a fligth simulator...It doesn't look realistic.
There is a guy wich created a plugin for FSX and if you look at those pictures you will see what I mean:
http://www.edtruthan.com/tileproxy/tutorial/
Search on Google about TileProxy and see the pictures around...that's what you should reach...
That will be the best plugin ever !!!!

PS: I don't tell it's easy...you did a great job but make it possible to add sharp edges, falls and include some way (like extrusion) to merge with an existing object (like a road coming from 3dsmax for example), and you will have the best plugin ever !!!
Bedford
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Posted: 30th Apr 2009 16:18
Hi everbody,

Really great plugin, good job men !!!
If you want to REALLY improve your plugin, add a feature to create sharp edges mountain and cliffs instead of the ugly rounded hills.
Also a great feature would be the possibility to merge the terrain with an existing object (a 3ds road for example).
LOD approach is just great...good idea !
Now what about the possibility to import a terrain from a 3d program ?
Have a look at what TileProxy does in FSX: http://www.edtruthan.com/tileproxy/tutorial/
Sharp mountains, cliffs, etc...that's just hyper realistic. Nowhere you will see rounded mountains like your plugin.

There is a 3d program called Animatek world's builder wich let you build a mountain with sharp edges using lines. The lines are the "skeleton" of the mountain edges and you can build all sort of mountain with them.

The ultimate plugin ? A 3ds terrain with rendered textures and your LOD technology !!! You see what I mean ? You will have 3d rendering and your plugin speed !!!
kaedroho
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Posted: 30th Apr 2009 19:17 Edited at: 30th Apr 2009 19:23
My plugin does not round the hills, The hills are already rounded on the heightmap. My plugin just generates the terrain. If you get the latest beta and try some new heightmaps with it, youll see that the hills dont have to be rounded.

Cliffs are also possible, but they cant be completely vertical as this wouldnt beable to be added to the heightmap.

This imports a heightmap and turns it into 3D. Then in realtime it does things like LOD and frustum culling. I did not make the heightmap, ill try and get hold of a heightmap that isnt as smooth (and hopefully alot bigger) to show what this plugin is really capable of.

I will also like to thank Batvink for putting this in the newsletter

Lost in Thought
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Posted: 1st May 2009 20:19
Hey what's the status of the price and how we can buy this?

kaedroho
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Posted: 1st May 2009 20:34
Full version will still be put as around £20. No contracts for selling has been signed yet.

Ive also decided to move Tile exclusion and Environment mapping to the free version, as ive been doing work on brand new features which will be added into the full version.

ABXG
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Posted: 2nd May 2009 00:15
Hey, I saw this in the news letter where it says this will work with DarkGDK, I was wondering how do I actually make this work with DarkGDK?

------------------------------------
Currently 1300+ lines of code into an "over-the-shoulder" action RPG with combat based on rag-doll physics.
kaedroho
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Posted: 2nd May 2009 03:05 Edited at: 2nd May 2009 03:07
It will have a lib and a .h include file. Simply drop them into the "lib" and "include" directorys as you have done when installing Dark GDK.

Then at the top of your project include BlitzTerrain by using #include <blitzterrain.h>

Then call the functions like normal.

The only real difference is that you have to watch the case and remember the underscore.

eg. UT_MakeTerrain()


I havnt looked a massive amount into DarkGDK plugin creation and I have never used DarkGDK. The DarkGDK release will become after the DBPro Release.

ABXG
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Posted: 2nd May 2009 06:17
OK, thank you.

------------------------------------
Currently 1300+ lines of code into an "over-the-shoulder" action RPG with combat based on rag-doll physics.
kaedroho
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Posted: 6th May 2009 17:28
I have one week to go until my GCSE exams start, so I have one week to get BlitzTerrain finnished. Ive put all my other projects on hold so I can work full time on BlitzTerrain. I will be doing bug fixes and improving speeds.


Ill post back in a few hours.

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