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DarkBASIC Professional Discussion / Dark Basic Elite - A Question

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mr Handy
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Posted: 10th Sep 2013 23:30 Edited at: 11th Sep 2013 01:01
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Quote: "[quote]Okay, now please show me the DBP project that you think is in need of tesselation."
Any scenes with massive amounts of ploys, like instead of having the game crap out at 100k there could be several million. Terrain, characters, architecture. It's an emmensely useful technology.[/quote]
Okay. (edit)

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Mage
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Posted: 10th Sep 2013 23:38 Edited at: 10th Sep 2013 23:51
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Quote: "
Mage has unlocked an offensive achievment: "windbag"!"


I gave you an honest and informed answer. My point was completely valid. Your argument failing, you've resorted to insulting me. You've been on forum probation for this sort of thing in the past.

I gave you respect and replied to you. This is the second occasion you've insulted me. Yes I remember. I won't make this mistake again.

Feathers have officially been ruffled.

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mr Handy
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Posted: 10th Sep 2013 23:45 Edited at: 11th Sep 2013 00:16
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Quote: "My point was completely valid."

Your point is completely valid if we were talking about AAA games. And we were not. That looks like DBP project?




Can you last time answer to make me take your "achievment" back: What DBP project is in need of teselation?

Hint: answer should start form "This DBP projects is in need of tesselation (url) (url) (url)"

EDIT:
Quote: "you've insulted me"

I went through your posts one more time.
You ignored thread sense - development on Dark Basic, and everything else, even in bold.
Where are your examples of DBP projects?
You have said that you don't want to make a product (on DBP) because you are don't want to.
If you don't want to make something, why do you blame DBP?
If Evolved or Mike Inel would blame DBP for lacks of DX11 support - I can understand, because they are skilled developers, they are able to go further.
You have said that it is unfair that GTA5 is coming on old consoles because it ruins your statement that good game can't be done on DX9, only on DX11.
What did you expected?

Honestly, that is DBP community who was insulted by you. Because they work on DX9 and do their best. And you say that is it senseless and obsolete.

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Mage
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Posted: 11th Sep 2013 00:17
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Quote: "Your point is completely valid if we were talking about AAA games. And we were not."

If that's true then make your case.

I mentioned that DBP is missing a lot of modern technologies that are present in games today. I gave some examples. These are facts.


Quote: "Can you this time answer to lock the achievment: What DBP project is in need of teselation?"

I posted a video showing you the project that would require tesselation. I made a solid argument for its merits. You want to ignore that in favor of a working example. It's not required.


Quote: "You were asked several times to proove your point. You ignored thread title and everything else. What did you expected?"

I made a fair and well rounded case. I am well within the subject of the thread. Talking about DBP's successor sort of leads to talking about why DBP would need to be replaced in the first place.

In any case, that's no reason to justify being slapped around by Mr.Handy. You have a history of making rude and inflammatory comments to a number of people on these forums. I don't appreciate the lack of respect you have given people on occasions such as this.

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mr Handy
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Posted: 11th Sep 2013 00:21 Edited at: 11th Sep 2013 00:36
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- Hey, give me an apple.
- Apple? Here is orange, it is round too.
- No, apple.
- Apples are obsolete.

Quote: "In any case, that's no reason to justify being slapped around by Mr.Handy. You have a history of making rude and inflammatory comments to a number of people on these forums. I don't appreciate the lack of respect you have given people on occasions such as this."

When a person can't argue he tries to pull something from personal attacks.

P.S.
Quote: "I don't appreciate the lack of respect"

Don't mess courtesy with respect. Courtesy is for everyone here, respect is for chosen. I politely will ignore you from now on, ok?

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Mage
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Posted: 11th Sep 2013 00:41
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Quote: "When a person can't argue he tries to pull something from personal attacks."

When a person can't argue he resorts to making personal attacks.


Quote: "Honestly, that is DBP community who was insulted by you. Because they work on DX9 and do their best. And you say that is it senseless and obsolete."

Admitting that DBP is old and has been replaced by newer technology isn't an insult. I never called it senseless.


Quote: "You have said that it is unfair that GTA5 is coming on old consoles because it ruins your statement that good game can't be done on DX9, only on DX11."

I'm not just talking about DX11. Multi threading and error handling are a few other good examples. It doesn't ruin my statement at all. Good games can be done on DX9 and have been. I never said otherwise.

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Mage
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Posted: 11th Sep 2013 00:43
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Quote: "Don't mess courtesy with respect. Courtesy is for everyone here, respect is for chosen. I politely will ignore you from now on, ok?"


That pretty much sums up my point. You don't respect people.

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mr Handy
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Posted: 11th Sep 2013 00:58 Edited at: 11th Sep 2013 01:01
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Quote: "You don't respect people."

Wut? I have a huge list of persons I do respect.

Quote: "Multi threading and error handling are a few other good examples."

As someone here have said it could be done by users (and plugins).

Listen, Mage. I think you totally missed my point. My point is that we don't need Elite now, because most of the projects here are even not using current gen (DX9) at full power. How often have you seen SSAO here, at TGC? SSAO is a obsolete effect already! (now is HBAO and HDAO). That's why new features will be like a spangled rusty car.

And your tesselation video is a tech demo, it's not very related with real life game development. Otherwise all AAA games should have tesselation on every object. And we have only few such games.

P.S. therefore, your achievement has not been achieved (edited).

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MrValentine
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Posted: 11th Sep 2013 01:03 Edited at: 11th Sep 2013 01:05
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I ignored the past few posts as they are all invalid on this discussion...

Wooo Ponies...

EDIT

Sorry the Ponies distracted me from saying, Please take that debate elsewhere like Geek Culture or Posting Competition... thanks...

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mr Handy
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Posted: 11th Sep 2013 01:07
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@MrValentine
It happens sometimes! I think I have posted my opinion too much in this thread. I should go

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MrValentine
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Posted: 11th Sep 2013 01:39
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mr Handy - haha, just kind of dragging on a bit, was getting tiresome reading all that...

Nice banner you got there I wonder who made it

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mr Handy
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Posted: 11th Sep 2013 01:48
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Quote: "Nice banner you got there I wonder who made it "

That was... that was... MrValentine!

Also I jsut realised that mr. Lee Bamber may be subscribed on this thread (facehoof)

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Mage
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Posted: 11th Sep 2013 02:16
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Quote: "Listen, Mage. I think you totally missed my point. My point is that we don't need Elite now, because most of the projects here are even not using current gen (DX9) at full power. How often have you seen SSAO here, at TGC? SSAO is a obsolete effect already! (now is HBAO and HDAO). That's why new features will be like a spangled rusty car."

Now you're getting somewhere. I agree that's a valid point to make. I guess I don't think you need to max out DX9 to benefit from DX11. Also I don't see it as purely a directx version issue. There's other things. But totally get your point, in most situations it'll be the case.


Quote: "And your tesselation video is a tech demo, it's not very related with real life game development. Otherwise all AAA games should have tesselation on every object. And we have only few such games."

Absolutely. I didn't want to tie this down to one feature. I just feel we are missing out on a lot of goodies. Stuff like this is gonna become very common in next gen gaming. There's more important things to worry about than tesselation.


Quote: "P.S. therefore, your achievement has not been achieved (edited)."

Thanks. I'll unruffle the feathers.


Quote: "I ignored the past few posts as they are all invalid on this discussion..."

I'm still interested in seeing details of your multi-threading solution. Btw.

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Chris Tate
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Posted: 11th Sep 2013 02:38
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I can't believe after being away from my PC for 7 hours; so much drama and disputation. You guys have posted more logical arguments than an error handler algorithm.

All valid points; but sometimes valid points are pointless. Not one word posted is going to benefit anyone significantly; TGC's hands are full and they are not working on DBPE; so stuff it, who cares; Elite is not coming this year, it is not happening anytime soon. Perhaps Direct X 12 will be out when the other TGC projects get completed.

Don't waste your time, better off just working on your stuff; discussing ideas and helping each other out; but thanks for the argumentative entertainment.


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mr Handy
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Posted: 11th Sep 2013 02:42
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Quote: "I just feel we are missing out on a lot of goodies."

We are indie bedroom coders, we miss many things...
Quote: "I'm still interested in seeing details of your multi-threading solution. Btw."

Try these:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=128257&b=6
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=200493&b=5
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=121503&b=6
And there was a hacked DBP dll that improves draw calls speed but I can't find it.

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Mage
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Posted: 11th Sep 2013 03:23
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Quote: "We are indie bedroom coders, we miss many things..."

Well said Mr.Handy. I do believe we can be friends after all. I'll try your links later.


Quote: "All valid points; but sometimes valid points are pointless. Not one word posted is going to benefit anyone significantly; TGC's hands are full and they are not working on DBPE; so stuff it, who cares; Elite is not coming this year, it is not happening anytime soon. Perhaps Direct X 12 will be out when the other TGC projects get completed."

I completely agree.


Quote: "Don't waste your time, better off just working on your stuff; discussing ideas and helping each other out; but thanks for the argumentative entertainment. "

Glad to entertain.

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Clonkex
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Posted: 11th Sep 2013 14:34
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@mr Handy and Mage:

Both of you made reasonable arguments, both of you made mistakes in your arguments. I won't point them out. I'm glad, however, that you managed to resolve your issues.

Quote: "Well said Mr.Handy. I do believe we can be friends after all."


Indeed, I hope so


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WLGfx
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Posted: 11th Sep 2013 14:47
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Quote: "We are indie bedroom coders, we miss many things..."


Here here... Although, I watch the TV though and get very distracted.

I'll still be your friends too.

Is there any news on the upgrades being made to the core DBP? (I believe this is for FPSC-R)

Mental arithmetic? Me? (That's for computers) I can't subtract a fart from a plate of beans!
Warning! May contain Nuts!
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mr Handy
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Posted: 11th Sep 2013 14:59
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Someone here downloaded DBP source and modified something. I forgot who...

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Rudolpho
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Posted: 11th Sep 2013 20:29
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Quote: "Someone here downloaded DBP source and modified something. I forgot who..."

I for one have done that. I'm sure lots of other people have as well, for their own purposes


"Why do programmers get Halloween and Christmas mixed up?"
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Mage
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Posted: 12th Sep 2013 00:06
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Quote: "Both of you made reasonable arguments, both of you made mistakes in your arguments. I won't point them out. I'm glad, however, that you managed to resolve your issues."

I am certainly willing to have an open discussion, and to listen to other people's views. I love using Dark Basic. It's a great software tool. Like I said above, I enjoy the help I get here and helping people in return.

Despite my fanatic attachment to all things Dark Basic, I am willing to admit it's not exactly on par with today's technology. I don't think that's an unreasonable opinion.

Sorry if I offended anyone.

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MrValentine
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Posted: 12th Sep 2013 00:34
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Quote: "I'm still interested in seeing details of your multi-threading solution. Btw."


PM me

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mr Handy
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Posted: 12th Sep 2013 00:38
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Quote: "PM me "

Hey! I want to know too!

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Mage
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Posted: 12th Sep 2013 01:05 Edited at: 12th Sep 2013 01:06
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Quote: "PM me "

Yeah I wanna take a look at this ill try and msg u later tonight.
Thanks for sharing.

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Kuper
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Posted: 13th Sep 2013 01:17 Edited at: 13th Sep 2013 01:21
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Quote: "
Try these:
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=128257&b=6
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=200493&b=5
http://forum.thegamecreators.com/?m=forum_view&t=121503&b=6
And there was a hacked DBP dll that improves draw calls speed but I can't find it.
"


Ive tested this multihreading plugins and they are useful only if you have high-end mathematic expressions - then you can pass them in additional thread and got 0.001 fps increase I love DB Pro it is so simple to use but its speed is extremely low =(( I have to buy GTX580 and last I7 core to watch 20 trees with deferred shading( horrible... So there is no way to create fps increase with plugins.The only way is to update DBPro source code itself. So if Lee Bamber will read this I have only one request - fps increase. If any body will need special physics or sprites there is plugins for it. DB Pro is SLOW. I think it is the main problem...
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Inflictive
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Posted: 16th Sep 2013 10:48 Edited at: 23rd Sep 2013 06:06
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Quote: "Tesselation: Meh... Only needed in games like crysis 2 and dbp is not for SUPER AAA games like that"


For what you guys were thinking of you can pretty much just use LOD switching (multiple versions of objects you switch with different poly counts). You wouldn't want to make a super low poly model and then just tesselate it when it gets close. Tesselation is mostly for rounding edges and fine detail work on super close objects.

Quote: "For example if I wanted to make an app that just displays my pictures like a photo album. The moment the app loads a corrupt image it crashes."


I think the matrix1utils has a section for handling that kind of error. For errors in your own code you'd just use make your own error handling.

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NA170425
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Posted: 25th Oct 2013 20:50
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Lee, I would definitely buy DarkBasic Elite. I left Dark Basic to wrtie my own engine in C++ and DirectX 11 due to slow compilation speeds and poor collision detection, and later got sucked into academic research on the later, but this community reminds me of the joy of being able to rapidly develop and release a game for all to play. It will always hold a special place in my heart.
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 25th Oct 2013 22:06
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Quote: "but this community reminds me of the joy of being able to rapidly develop and release a game for all to play. It will always hold a special place in my heart."


Can we have that in flashing lights please?

Makes a refreshing change from all the moans.



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MrValentine
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Posted: 25th Oct 2013 22:38
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Green Gandalf, you said something about flashing lights again?



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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 26th Oct 2013 01:47
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So I did.

It seems to be becoming an annoying habit of mine.

Should your post come with a health warning?



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MrValentine
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Posted: 26th Oct 2013 07:26
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Haha I think it is slow enough

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NA170425
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Posted: 26th Oct 2013 21:33
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Lol, that along with Green Gandalf's sig reminds me of the banned Pokemon episode.
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Kingius Returns
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Posted: 27th Oct 2013 14:14
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If it was backwards compatible (with DBPro) then yes I'd be interested in it.
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gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 27th Oct 2013 19:26
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@Kingius Returns

more than likely it would have all the same commands
but be more optimized to use more of the ability of the newer
computers and the latest direct x and with hope the latest
opengl dll driver

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
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Kingius Returns
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Posted: 28th Oct 2013 10:48
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Sounds good. Yes, I'd be interested.
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Brightside_
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Posted: 30th Oct 2013 09:48
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whats about sending DB Elite to kickstarter? I think it is possible to collect up to 10k $ in few weeks
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DevilLiger
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Posted: 30th Oct 2013 12:52
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After much that I'd rather settle for AppGameKit v2. Advantage is way better like more platforms for your game projects which is great.
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Clonkex
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Posted: 30th Oct 2013 14:05
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Quote: "whats about sending DB Elite to kickstarter? I think it is possible to collect up to 10k $ in few weeks"


Possibly, but 1) I doubt it and 2) 10k would not be sufficient to fund development of DBE.


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gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 30th Oct 2013 17:44
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D.B.P defiantly needs a over hall

1. the computers have gotten much better and lot of things have been learned since it's creation

2. there have been quite a few updates to windows with graphics
there is even a new display from Nvidia that removes a lot of pixelation

bring in opengl into the mix but not eliminating directx
with permit better higher end graphics and reducing cpu time and speed things up and save on memory so games / programs could be made for lower end computers

as for the amount of $10,000 humm

it's a good start but it seems more like $30,000 would be closer
to the what would be needed

that,s my 2 cents well nickle since penny's are not used any more
in canada

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
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Mobiius
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Posted: 31st Oct 2013 23:27
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Quote: "that,s my 2 cents well nickle since penny's are not used any more in canada"

What if something costs $XX.03? (Or other odd numbered amount)


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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 1st Nov 2013 01:01
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Quote: "What if something costs $XX.03? (Or other odd numbered amount)"


You could say the same when we phased out the half p coin or the farthing, halfpenny, etc, etc.



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Mobiius
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Posted: 1st Nov 2013 17:47
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I still use them.... lol


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gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2013 04:11
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@Mobiius

it works like this

if the amount is 3 cents then it go's to 5
if it's 2 cents it go's to 0

if the amnt is 7 cents then it's 10 cents
if it's 6 cents it's 5 cents

well penny are not used any more to buy thing's

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2013 13:23
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Hmm?



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gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2013 23:11
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@Mobiius

i can only think you use the penny at home

in my city they are not used any more

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
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Clonkex
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Posted: 4th Nov 2013 00:20
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In Australia the smallest coin we have is the 5-cent coin. As most products are advertised as $4.99 or $87.98 or something like that, the amount is rounded. With the first example, you would hand them a $5 note and receive no change. With the second example, you would give them $88 and receive no change (actually you'd be more likely to use a card in both situations these days ).

The thing is we don't expect to receive change and we don't read $4.99 as $4.99, we read it as $5. Naturally $4.99 is more appealing than $5, so marketing still uses that technique.

The rounding works in the way Resourceful described.

We stopped using the one-cent coin in 1992, though it's still legal tender, so if you have one you can use it


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Kezzla
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Posted: 4th Nov 2013 03:26
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I once had a 2 cent phone bill...Should have paid cash.

Burn retina, burn!
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Clonkex
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Posted: 4th Nov 2013 14:30
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Quote: "I once had a 2 cent phone bill...Should have paid cash."


lol I'm pretty sure if the price is less than 5 cents it's always rounded up


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gwheycs62egydws
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Posted: 5th Nov 2013 00:40
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we still have things listed at $0.99 or similar
I do not think that concept will ever go away ;o) ;oP

as for using the penny
as far as I know it's not used any ware

even the bus service new digital change do not take it
they do not even take bill's or ducks for that matter lol

@Kezzla

dose that mean you sill owe $0.02 cents ? ;o) lol

we stopped using the penny as of the being of this year

a refill of 10 liter jug of water should cost $0.99
but it cost $1

to move side ways - is to move forward
Since a Strait line gets thin fast
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 5th Nov 2013 20:37 Edited at: 5th Nov 2013 20:43
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I would have thought it was illegal to display a price that wasn't expressed in legal tender.

I guess such things vary from country to country.

Edit Amazing how threads can go off topic isn't it.



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