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FPSC Classic Product Chat / FPS Creator Reloaded - Kickstarter Fund Raising Begins, please pledge!

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Silvester
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Posted: 20th Nov 2012 09:23
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Quote: "Not to sound rude or anything, but have you read the thread at all? You will not pay anything at all until When and IF the project gets funded"

I realize this, I am familiar with how KickStarter works. BUT, I would sort of like to know what kind of money I have and have spare before pledging anything. Being a smartass over this is a wee bit odd, as I do believe most people like to know what they have before they promise to spend it.
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A dude
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Posted: 20th Nov 2012 16:08
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Unfortunately, I don't have enough money to pledge. Maybe we should ask Bill Gates.

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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 20th Nov 2012 16:10
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@Ertlov

Quote: "Sorry to be harsh, but an Engine due to be released late 2013 without deferred rendering and real-time shadows is not worth much."


The only reason I haven't pledged yet is because the future of realtime dynamic shadows or deferred rendering is still a very open question for FPSC. I would pledge at least £100 if there was more commitment from TGC to deliver this.

This kickstarter is going to fail if TGC are relying on the existing user base to come up with £60,000. A lot of people have moved on to other things now where those features are already available. You need the next generation of FPSC users to get this off the ground and they will expect a modern rendering pipeline.

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bond1
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Posted: 20th Nov 2012 19:42 Edited at: 20th Nov 2012 19:44
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The thing nowadays, is that there are a handful of high-profile game engines (Unreal, Crytek, Frostbite, etc), that set the standard for how modern games look graphically. Anything less is viewed as substandard.

For a small team like TGC to compete graphically with these giants is a pretty tall order.

If they can get 80-90% there graphically, which I think is totally possible, then I think that should be viewed as a success. Even a new game like Counter Strike: Global Offensive doesn't exactly have cutting edge graphics.


I really hope FPSCR comes to fruition. I've had endless fun with FPSC since 2006. I'd like to continue having fun with it for another 6 years.

SPECS: Intel Corei7 3770k, Nvidia GTX680, 16GB RAM, Win7 Pro
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Flatlander
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Posted: 20th Nov 2012 20:02 Edited at: 20th Nov 2012 20:11
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We need around 4000 a day now to bring this about. The only way is a wealthy contributor. But what is sad is the few who are even backing this.

So,I hate to be pessimistic but it looks like FPSCR will not come to fruition anyway. There are only 300 supporters for FPSCR. If there were 2000 supporters @ 25 sterling and 200 to 300 others at a larger amount, that would mean an awful lot to TGC. It's the small amount of those who are wanting to see this happen that is disappointing. If there are only that many, how can there be a guarantee that there would be that many supporters for a complete re-write? IMHO, this is real lousy support and I would not be encouraged. Why bother? Even if we had someone who would pledge the rest of the amount on the last day, that would only be around 325 supporters. Not much support. Not much encouragement.

Addendum:

Marketing studies are difficult even when you are trying to see how much business you would get for a local enterprise let alone something that is world-wide as software. Kickstarter was a good way to see how much support there would be. The amount is very reasonable to ask for because this is an extremely small company. TGC has been blessed with volunteers to update what they have. They are able not to charge for these updates because of this. I'm not sure there would be enough support to have done the updating themselves and then charging for the update. How many would purchase an update? 300? Not worth the time and effort.

They also have counted on mods to help increase the usage of FPSC. There hasn't been much interest in that either. Even with such mods that Plystire had done and even hockeykid. Although, there was more forum interest with these than with RPGmod. I'm sure Ched80 is finding this out. Not much chat about his 3rd person implementation in RPGmod. So there you have it. Again my humble opinion.

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bond1
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Posted: 20th Nov 2012 20:19 Edited at: 20th Nov 2012 20:22
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Well, as the saying goes, it ain't over till it's over.

This has always been a smaller, more intimate game-making community. I'd like to think that there are more than 300 supporters, that would like to see FPSCR get made, even if they can't support it with money for various reasons. We'll just have to see.

The fact that FPSC is such a niche software is both a blessing and a curse.

SPECS: Intel Corei7 3770k, Nvidia GTX680, 16GB RAM, Win7 Pro
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Flatlander
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Posted: 20th Nov 2012 20:24 Edited at: 20th Nov 2012 20:47
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Or, t'ain't over 'til the fat lady sings.

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s4real
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Posted: 20th Nov 2012 22:01
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Quote: "There hasn't been much interest in that either. Even with such mods that Plystire had done and even hockeykid. Although, there was more forum interest with these than with RPGmod"


Because the most popular mods where Project blue and s4mod by myself that you seem to forget and did very well.

I think the reason there isn't as many people backing this because V1.20 source code a mess and adding the features would slow the engine down to much without major re-write.


I would of backed a from scratch project but I need proof how they going to add these features without major performance hits.

Parallax occlusion mapping need two cameras and a lot of re-write to add to the source as it stands and that going to be like major framerate hits.

I do wish TGC the best with this and have supported FPSC a lot in the past and will do again if there was more concrete proof how these things can be achieved.

best s4real


Pack ya games with vishnu packer its free. Vishnu game launcher is now released.
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fallen one
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Posted: 21st Nov 2012 00:15 Edited at: 21st Nov 2012 00:16
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Quote: "Loads of model packs for any who pledges 25£ or more (if the campaign is successful). Really nice! "

Thats worth it for me even if I never use fpsc, that will bring others in, but you need to let people in, thats major news, get telling indie game/creator web sites, serious developers dont pass up offers like that. I thought Dexsofts 1 day 50% sale was good, but this is 90%.

What I would of liked to seen added was making development time smaller and easier, thats the strength of fpsc, if you want fancy effects, there are scores of engines, you can use engines that at one time used to cost over a million usd (thats from personal experiance). I get sick of hearing the whining for graphic effects on these boards, you want speed, fast dev time, multiple platform support, efficient game running speed. Your entire engine runs on quick and easy dev time, painting blocks in, lots of content packs, without this, you dont have an engine, ease of use, thats your key feature, develop that, not graphic sparkle. The easier and faster you make actual development, the more people you will pull in. People who never even thought they could build a game.

What makes more money, handfuls of over priced jars of caviar sold to a few toffs, or the millions of loves of bread that are sold every week. You need numbers or price, your engine is low cost, so you need the numbers. Never mind what they say on these boards about graphic features, how many millions has minecraft made, how much graphic sparkle has that got.


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bond1
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Posted: 21st Nov 2012 00:33 Edited at: 21st Nov 2012 00:43
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Quote: "Parallax occlusion mapping need two cameras and a lot of re-write to add to the source as it stands and that going to be like major framerate hits."


I can confidently say this implementation of parrallax occlusion doesn't need two cameras (or ANY added burden to the engine for that matter). Not a single line of extra code added to the source.

It is achieved very cleverly using the "cone-step" method, which is a ridiculously fast way of doing parrallax occlusion, faster than the crytek method! I even wrote my own preprocessing tool for generating these special textures. So if you're worried about added bloat to the source, you can put your mind at ease...

SPECS: Intel Corei7 3770k, Nvidia GTX680, 16GB RAM, Win7 Pro
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s4real
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Posted: 21st Nov 2012 01:33
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@bond1 Thanks for the info and what method you using but cone step mapping isn't officially parallax occlusion although it does give very similar effect.

Thats if I'm reading what you saying is right.

Yes using that method would not hit the framerate much at all if any.

Maybe because the shader is no extra code we can see a tech demo in fpsc itself.

Sorry for being negative I do want all these things in fpsc as well just I'm harder person to pitch too.

best s4real

ps:- Hope I don't get banned for having my personal view on the matter


Pack ya games with vishnu packer its free. Vishnu game launcher is now released.
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Airslide
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Posted: 21st Nov 2012 04:44
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I'm kind of with s4real on this one, I'm just not that confident in the outcome (and I'm hugely disappointed that it isn't being shifted over to another language, like AppGameKit, for Mac and iOS support).

Fixing up the original engine would first require a Herculean effort of cleanup before anything else. It is just silly navigating the world's largest single source file game engine.
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force master
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Posted: 21st Nov 2012 05:24
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I just gave my $65 pounds. How do I get my little badge?
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MrValentine
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Posted: 21st Nov 2012 05:34
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Quote: "I just gave my $65 pounds. How do I get my little badge? "


One way is to state your Pledging name here, another is to email someone... not sure which but it may be a little back on this thread and something to note, apparently Kickstarter updates in batches so your name may not show up, but then again I found it kind of awkward to navigate through the backer list pages...

And it may help if you put £ above

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Flatlander
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Posted: 21st Nov 2012 05:40 Edited at: 21st Nov 2012 05:41
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@force master

If you want TGC to add the "backer" icon, please send your full name and forum name to Christine who will add it for you. Her email is: [email protected]

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force master
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Posted: 21st Nov 2012 05:41 Edited at: 21st Nov 2012 05:44
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oh yea, sorry American here. it was more like $103 dollars which to my poor ass is a lot of money.


@flatlander done and done
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michael x
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Posted: 21st Nov 2012 19:40
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I have no hope lost in fpscR. but I think TGC have option to make this happen. they can back rest of fpscR which it looks like it would be 40,000 pound they would have to backer. they can just work on the core of fpscR and add in what little features. sale the other features like shader in a shader pack as a plugin or something like that. sale the new models as a packs that could run you for 29.99 to 39.99. if TGC really believe in fpscR they can find a way like this. but I was looking at other projects that made there goal and some that was not even that good. you would think that random of people who pledge would backer this project. I seen some dumb stuff on there. so dumb i might want get backers for my game project.lol. but being that said I believe fpscR should have been more successful than others.also once fpscR is out they can sell it for a price of $99.99 or more.like having a deluxe version.

more than what meets the eye

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Le Shorte
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Posted: 21st Nov 2012 22:59
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Just put down 45 pounds. It's just too bad it doesn't look likely it'll make it at this point.

I think TGC's main fault was that they didn't advertized outside of the community until a few days into the Kickstarter itself. I really think if they had gotten some publicity, like the IGN article, maybe a PC Gamer article, etc. before they launched it, we'd be in a much better position to reach the goal right now, if not already passed it.
Just my 2 cents.

Cheesehead for life.
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Flatlander
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2012 02:31
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We need 1675 backers at £25. Surely there were way more than this number who had purchased FPSC. It's just £25. It can't break anybody. Surely parents could help out if they were supportive before.

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Ertlov
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Posted: 22nd Nov 2012 07:05 Edited at: 22nd Nov 2012 14:01
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Raised to 405. Would take the 2000 pledge, but thats more than can be charged on the usual Austrian Visa Card (3000 Euro). Any idea?

Edit:

I will publish an article on IndieDB, too. Perhaps this will help also a little.

Come to where the madness is:http://www.homegrowngames.at
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Hamburger
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2012 00:13
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I know I keep reiterating this a bit but I really think that they need to give us a bit of an update... kind of see where they are going with this at this point. Right now we havent had a project update in ten days, which is a lot considering how long this kickstarter is supposed to last. It seems kind of dead right now, and again I think more would be drawn to the project from the outside of here if it was updated every couple days, even if it is just a small update with a little info on the state of the project, with a few bigger ones here and there, like the alley techdemo.

Also, if the project does not get funded, I think I am going to make a petition to possibly re-try the kickstarter at a later date... I agree with others about the timing of the launch and everything; if we had gotten more publicity beforehand, and also maybe tried this a month or two later, we would probably be in a better situation, like Le shorte said.

Also like others I am wondering if TGC themselves would back themselves in order to see the completion of this project. I almost feel like particle creator was made to help with the kickstarter... just my speculation.

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Disturbing 13
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2012 02:27
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I don't think kickstarter allows you to back yourself. That would also kind of defeat the purpose; i mean the money is to invest in programs as well as to pay themselves and employees for the work they are doing. The time they spend on FPSCReloaded will take time away from other capitol gaining ventures, so by all means they need to be compensated. So it's kinda silly to ask them to back themselves. I can definitely see where they can pull funds from what they make on other products; that's why they are trying to sweeten the deal even more with the model pack giveaway.So let's show these guys the support they need to bring us the program we want.

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Ertlov
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2012 10:30
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Quote: "I don't think kickstarter allows you to back yourself."


Every Studio Boss I know who has had a kickstarter campaign asking between 200.000 and 800.000 cash, had 50.000 to 150.000 cash aside to throw in himself. I also know some of those who are raising cash now, and two of them already told me that if they get only half of the cash begged, they can throw in the rest.

Why?

Because getting less money is still better than getting no money.

And you have no legal obligation to suceed in what you have promised. You only have to try.

Come to where the madness is:http://www.homegrowngames.at
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2012 11:54
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Quote: "I'll be upping mine too later in the week."


Done.



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dennisb
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2012 16:12
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I got a email asking about this kickstarter campaign a while back. At that time I responded saying I would be willing to pledge 10 bucks, but the rewards were really good and I really want this to happen so I pledged 45 gbp which is about 7 times what I originally thought I would pledge. Either tgc creators just overestimated at 60k for their goal, or there are people that responded saying they would pledge and just didn't, which is a shame. I know some people, especially the young folks here, just can not make a pledge. That is understandable. I am just hoping those folks that said they would pledge will do so. A lot of us are really wanting this.

I just don't know what else tgc could do to get people more into this. There's only 7 days left. There's an animator named Kenny Roy who did a kickstarter campaign and did a straight 24 hour animating marathon live on cam and screen share to get people interested. It was a cool event. Maybe tgc can come up with an event to draw people in, I know its short notice for something like that, but I think some kind of event is the only hope right now, raising 40k in 7 days gonna be tough.

My two cents on the matter.

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lotgd
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2012 18:16
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I just pledged, but I had to make myself a credit card.
A bit of courage and maybe you can take this project forward.

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Netsky
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Posted: 23rd Nov 2012 18:45
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Quote: " I pledged 45 gbp which is about 7 times what I originally thought I would pledge"


Same here - as first I thought it would be some kind of Add-on / Patch

Would really like to see this happen, hopefully some of the work they already did will make it at least into a patch.

Cross your fingers - maybe we get FPSCR after all
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seppgirty
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Posted: 24th Nov 2012 01:23
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i got to say, if 3rd person view was at the top of the list i would have pledged more. it's gonna take a miracle to reach the 60,000

gamer, lover, filmmaker
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Wicked Blood Gaming
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Posted: 25th Nov 2012 01:22
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No trailer then? 6 days left...
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Wicked Blood Gaming
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Posted: 25th Nov 2012 07:14
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This kickstarter has really nothing to show newcomers. Besides showing off the "great new shaders" and Slenderman model...I'd love to see some editor. Show something that we couldn't do before!
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Springfrog
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Posted: 25th Nov 2012 19:02
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My first post on the forum so hello everyone I've just pledged £25. I bought FPS Creator about a year ago but haven't had the time to delve into it in any great detail yet. One thing I'd like to see would be some kind of randomisation of enemy character's faces (if that's even possible) so that you don't get a bunch of enemies that look the same. I hope that somehow we reach the goal as I'd love to see FPS Creator taken the next step further, with my personal aim of trying to create games which are realy sellable.
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Kilgore
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Posted: 25th Nov 2012 21:26 Edited at: 25th Nov 2012 21:27
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In my opinion, the only way to ever reach 60k is going to be to attract people beyond the existing FPSC community. That means a demo that shows useable template AI rather than just graphical updates that to most non-users will seem average. The weakness for the casual game maker has always been enemy AI, and even though it's true that it takes custom scripting to do it properly, the demo needs to show that it is possible to get a good 'basic' AI with the default scripts and animations. Also, much more regular updates are needed.
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Conjured Entertainment
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Posted: 26th Nov 2012 00:24 Edited at: 26th Nov 2012 00:25
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Try posting it again for 60 days?



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washburnrover
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Posted: 26th Nov 2012 00:36
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As far as Graphic-quality/performance goes:
-Need level of detail controls
-Dynamic Shadows
-DirectX11 support
-dynamic loading sequence for textures and meshes (like how in CoD I've noticed on low-ram PC's, it loads very low-res textures and slowly fades in the high-res textures once fully-loaded) which would allow for a lot more guns and entities in a level, because they only load when needed.
-REAL-TIME EDITING! NO MORE WAITING TO COMPILE XP

As far as others features go:
-Multiplayer with dynamic entities (of course), optional stuff like leaderboards and lobbies, friendslists, etc. And Developers should be allowed to add in their own plugins (maybe even to make it scompatible with steam even?)
-Weapon attachment-system / Custom-Loadout System
I'd like to see Player hands as a separate mesh than the Guns themselves, so different characters or outfits have different meshes. For attachments, I'd LOVE to see a rail-based system, where gun meshes have rail-spots (under-barrel, barrel, optic rail, alternate-magazine options) so the different attachments would be simply be variables that determine if/what attachments are on that gun (with the attachments as a set of global meshes that can go on any gun the developer chooses)
-Lastly, The Player Camera needs improving. Developers (and Players) should have instantaneous control over FOV. options for standing, crouching, and PRONE should be available, with custom heights if the developer chooses. I think the option to have camera-shake (like when running, explosions, etc.) really add to the depth and immersion of players into games like Battlefield 3.

Regardless, I'm very excited for FPSC Reloaded, despite I do my serious development with Unity and other engines, I'd love to see the Ease of use of FPSC finally cross-roads with the features it's deserved for years. And who knows, with the release of Windows 8, I'm sure a much larger market of Low-end PC Gamers will come into the equation.

My Craptop's Specs: Windows 7 Ultimate; AMD sempron 2.1 GHz single-core CPU; ATI radeon 3100 non-HD 256mb dedicated, up to 1.5 GB total; 3 GB DDR2 333 MHz RAM
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force master
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Posted: 26th Nov 2012 01:39 Edited at: 26th Nov 2012 01:45
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Kilgore said it and I would like to reiterate, the only people who this is catching is the existing community and there is just isn't enough people in the existing community. This was a very poorly thought out kickstarter.

You should have first explained what fps creator is, what the new features will do. You have a couple video's that don't really show anything.

I think everyone here knows this is a failure. 8000 a day for the next five days will never happen.


How to redo this kickstarter

1) Explain FPS creator
2) Why should we spend money on this kickstarter, what are the benefits to us(them)
3) Go into detail about the new changes.
4) Third person perspective.
5) USE THE BEST MODELS AND ROOMS for the DEMO, not the crappiest.
6) Get some damn better character models, the character models suck a big one, if I am new this, those models would make me laugh my ass off, they don't need to be Crysis, but they sure do need to be at least counter strike level, if you can't deliver anything other than a flat face on a 12 polygon model, then forget about it.
7)what the heck does this mean "plus the chance to describe a character" yea I know what it means, nobody else other than us will.

That is just for starters.


As for those bitching about you want, how about you offer up some damn money before running your mouths. Money talks everything else walks.
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Hamburger
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Posted: 26th Nov 2012 01:55
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Quote: "6) Get some damn better character models, the character models suck a big one, if I am new this, those models would make me laugh my ass off, they don't need to be Crysis, but they sure do need to be at least counter strike level, if you can't deliver anything other than a flat face on a 12 polygon model, then forget about it."


I hope you werent talking about the new characters that were supposed to be in reloaded, were you?

But yes, I agree too, that this was poorly thought out.
Quote: "
As for those bitching about you want, how about you offer up some damn money before running your mouths. Money talks everything else walks. "


please don't make the same mistake I made in another thread, people can hold their money back for whatever they need.

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force master
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Posted: 26th Nov 2012 02:07
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@Hamburger, I am just saying it annoys me when people make demands about what they want, yet never pony up.
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Green Gandalf
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Posted: 26th Nov 2012 12:38 Edited at: 26th Nov 2012 12:39
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I think the most off-putting thing about this is the horribly uninspiring blank, almost greyscale, figure you see before you start the demo video.



The existing FPSC software can produce far more inspiring images than that so I'm not surprised about the weak response. Just look at the Malevolence Kickstarter images for a good example.



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MrValentine
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Posted: 26th Nov 2012 12:50
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Quote: "I think the most off-putting thing about this is the horribly uninspiring blank, almost greyscale, figure you see before you start the demo video."


10000000000% Agree with you, I never knew what that was about, still don't and I think it is very unsettling and off-putting, and incredibly hideous...

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force master
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Posted: 26th Nov 2012 17:35 Edited at: 26th Nov 2012 17:36
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Also what is up with the horribly beveled logo and crappy cgi bullet. I don't think they have a decent designer anywhere on their team.

There is no doubt they have some great programmers, but when it comes to design and style ... fuhgeddaboudit
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electric chihuahua
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Posted: 26th Nov 2012 17:35
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They need to use videos from some of the BOTB winners. There is some incredible inspiring work on the forums. I don't understand the overfascination with the slender character anyway.
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randbo
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Posted: 26th Nov 2012 18:09
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i hope you guys really concentrate on level loading times of finished games. thats the one biggest drawback of fpsc.
i do love it so, anyways.
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MrValentine
AGK Backer
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Playing: FFVII
Posted: 26th Nov 2012 18:14
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Ouch electric chihuahua , Ouch...

But I do agree, the logo needs refining, especially if the sentiment that you can create other than violent games in FPSC, that bullet does not reflect this idea...

How about this ^^



More than welcome to ask me about resizing, etc...
I have another idea, but anyway... it is not an open discussion I think, so no point toying away with my tools unless it was an option debate with real results

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force master
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Posted: 26th Nov 2012 18:58
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It would be a nice logo style for something but artistically it doesn't really register with the product.
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zoltar
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Posted: 26th Nov 2012 23:37
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Some of the following points have been mentioned before but I haven't seen any answers. It'd be nice to know what are the official thoughts on these.

Is there a way to relaunch the project on Kickstarter again? Maybe for a longer period and with better publicity?

Has TGC considered an internal funding or pre-release program?

Has TGC considered to develop FPSC Reloaded in a modular way so it can start with fewer funds and with time come up with the other features sold separately as add-ons like they do with DarkBASIC Pro?

If FPSC Reloaded is abandoned does it mean DarkBASIC Pro won't have any updates in the future?

I really hope TGC don't give up on the project!
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starmind 001
FPSC Reloaded Backer
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Posted: 26th Nov 2012 23:40
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Just a curiousity, if the goal is not reached, will the project still continue or will it just stop? I am will to leave my money in the pot for its continued development. I would also include my little sales in the store to add to that pot.

I have been reading through all the posts and I have yet to see this question answered. It would a shame for it to just go away.

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Flatlander
FPSC Tool Maker
19
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Location: The Flatlands
Posted: 26th Nov 2012 23:50
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In theory, it will not continue. It looks as if neither Rick nor Lee wants to say anything until after December 1st. So, we'll see what will happen after this is over. I made my opinions known in an earlier post so I want bother to repeat them. We'll just have to wait and see.

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Wicked Blood Gaming
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Posted: 27th Nov 2012 00:01
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Where is Lee and Rick?Could really use input here..
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electric chihuahua
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Posted: 27th Nov 2012 02:14
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Flatlander,

I have to disagree. The Kickstarter program is to get funding to expedite updates and add additional features. What might take 5 years would only take one since they can bring on additional help etc.

Some of the items listed are in the pipeline. We will probably see a couple of them within the next six months or so. Kickstarter would give them a financial boost and incentive to make the updates and improvements quicker.
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science boy
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Posted: 27th Nov 2012 13:33
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maybe do it again with a 25,000 goal. with less extras, then do add on packs, this is something that will slowly take off, the dis illusioned will convert sooner when they realise what is on offer, and if add on packs like 3rd person, effect pack etc, can make money through the sales on a steady flow,it seems more than 50% on the boards aint buying it.

so maybe do reloaded with 20,000 kick starter, then do add on packs like in the model packs, this will make money, and suite different people, thats what i would do anyway, and not have them demanded as updates, make people pay for things

an unquenchable thirst for knowledge of game creation!!!
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