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Geek Culture / NVIDIA Prize Justice!

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KeithC
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Posted: 16th May 2007 21:04
Probably not one that they'd answer to. It doesn't look like anything's going to be done about this one at all, which is a shame because it put's a damper on all future competitions here.

-Keith

xplosys
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Posted: 16th May 2007 21:42
Derek Perez, Public Relations,
+1-408-486-2512, or
dperez@nvidia.com

But your probably right about them not answering.

Best.

I'm sorry, my answers are limited. You must ask the right question.

Alquerian
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Posted: 16th May 2007 22:22
I say that we ask ATI to sponsor the next competition seeing as Nvidia can't keep their word on this matter. I have lost a lot of faith in them due to this, talk about biting the hand that feeds you...

I am willing to bet that if ATI were to become informed of this issue, they would jump at the opportunity to publicize their brand in a positive manner.

If any of the Nvidia folks are reading this, you have some serious egg on your face. I purchase several cards every year and I do the IT purchasing at my institution. I thought Nvidia was a pro-developer company which was true to their word. If this is your way of making some cheap advertising, then Shame on you! I will be buying ATI products from this day forth.

Visit the Wip!
Benjamin A
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Posted: 17th May 2007 01:47 Edited at: 17th May 2007 01:48
As stated by email, sorry to hear you're having this problem, I do hope this will get sorted out....

Quote: "Not the "Complete PC Setup" which was listed on the TGC prize page and the Nvidia Compo page ( http://www.nzone.co.uk/object/nzone_fpsc_contest_eu.html ), The components listed above aren't even the ones listed within Newsletter 51. So where is the Intel Quad Core CPU ?

After sending a series of emails to Rick vanner, requesting answers as to where my prize has gone, it appears there is nothing TGC can do and that Nvidia have indeed delivered the correct prizes.

Although I have been offered compensation in the predicted form of TGC software, I still feel outraged at this injustice."


I still fail to see how anyone, be it TGC or nVidia can claim you did get the correct price. nVidia did not deliver the price that was promised at all. Newsletter 49 http://www.thegamecreators.com/data/newsletter/newsletter_issue_49.html clearly states what the firts price would be:

Quote: "Thank you to everyone who entered the FPS Creator part of the NVIDIA Game Dev Competition. We received a good number of entries, some of which are works of sheer art! While internally TGC have judged and rated every game, we now need the guys over at NVIDIA to do the same. Sadly this means we cannot bring you the results this issue as we had planned, but we will announce them shortly (NVIDIA estimate within the next 2 weeks).

On the plus side, we CAN announce the base specs of the PC that the 1st place winner will get:

Intel Quad Core Processor
Intel Motherboard based on the 680i SLI Chipset
BFG 8800 GTX DirectX10 graphics card
"


TGC is talking about the base specs of the pc that the first price winner will get, so their talking about a complete pc.

Looking at what you did get:
- Intel Core 2 Duo processor
- Geforce 8800 GTS OC graphics card
- Asus P5NT WS Motherboard

and what was promised as the base specs of the pc:

-Intel Quad Core Processor
-Intel Motherboard based on the 680i SLI Chipset
-BFG 8800 GTX DirectX10 graphics card

All I can say is that you sure didn't get what was promised, not even close to it.... less cpu, less motherboard and less gfx card, someone decided to go cheap, instead of keeping a promise. I don't see how TGC can even say that nVidia delivered the correct prices....

You should simply get what was promised and I would say let's all get in contact with both TGC and nVidia, since they both failed to deliver what was promised and they rather cover up things, then come out into the open. Perhaps the partnership is gettin in the way from doing this?

Next time choose ATI, they give what has been promised and often even better, I know that from experience.

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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 17th May 2007 01:58
I just sent an email to Mr. Perez expressing my feelings on the issue.

Mr Tank
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Posted: 17th May 2007 05:56
This is pretty shocking. It ought to turn out right if you keep up the pressure on whoever messed up. I guess if the newsletter and TGC website is the only thing that said you'd get the complete PC then TGC are obliged to sort it out rather than Nvidia, but you'd think that the price of 1 computer is well worth it for the PR.

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Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 17th May 2007 07:38
This is very unfortunate. If it were me that got ripped off I'd be very angry.

However, this won't keep me from entering future TGC contests.


Come see the WIP!
Van B
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Posted: 17th May 2007 10:10
This will probably be considered insensitive, thoughtless... but I just love this picture, kinda sums up what this thread amounts to.



Next time TGC will just be doubly sure to be exact when listing prizes, that's if they even give proper details next time, they might get all vague on us. But this is not the first time an indi competition has went a bit sour, nor will it be the last, in fact I'd stick my neck out and say that a lot of competition winners have been royally screwed over compared to this, not in our neck of the woods but it certainly happens.
I hope nobody is put off entering competitions in future, and I hope the same for sponsors and organizers too. But everyone posting their disgust here is never gonna help the situation, sorry to re-iterate but the best thing to do is make the most of what you did get, I really don't see how things can change now.


Good guy, Good guy, Wan...
Benjamin A
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Posted: 17th May 2007 11:19
Quote: "But everyone posting their disgust here is never gonna help the situation, sorry to re-iterate but the best thing to do is make the most of what you did get, I really don't see how things can change now."


Sorry to say but as long as everyone has this kind of attitude nothing will change at all. People should voice their disgust with things like this and let the companies involved know how they think about this kind of treatment, perhaps they'll listen and do what they've promised next time. If no one ever spoke out against anything at all, slaves would still be inslaved.... knights and popes would still oppress the masses, women still would have no rights and so on.

It's time for us indies to be treated with more respect!

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Van B
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Posted: 17th May 2007 12:22
But your talking about a revolution Ben!

If I thought that marching on nVidia would work, then I'd supply the sandwiches!.

Indi developers, always outnumbered, never outgunned!


Good guy, Good guy, Wan...
BatVink
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Posted: 17th May 2007 12:39
Women have rights? Butter those sandwiches!

bond1
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Posted: 17th May 2007 13:21 Edited at: 17th May 2007 13:21
I too am sick of the pope always trying to keep me down. He will get his come-uppance, mark my word.

----------------------------------------
"Your mom goes to college."
My FPSC stuff at http://www.hyrumark.com
KeithC
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Posted: 17th May 2007 13:49
Bad Horsey....Bad!!!

Zappo
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Posted: 17th May 2007 14:57
Quote: "Sorry to say but as long as everyone has this kind of attitude nothing will change at all. People should voice their disgust with things like this and let the companies involved know how they think about this kind of treatment, perhaps they'll listen and do what they've promised next time."

I agree completely. The only weapon us lowly indi developers have against being ripped off by the big boys is the threat of bad publicity. And one thing we are good at is voicing our opinions on the net. You may argue that 'voicing' is no good if people don't listen, but if someone searching for info on nVidia products comes across several pages describing how they don't keep their word and possibly can't be trusted, it will affect their reputation and business.
All hail the little guy, his flogging stick and his horse still clinging to life.
MikeB
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Posted: 17th May 2007 15:11
I feel very bad for you wehtam, and who gives a.... ummm....... pathetic fpsc game.......... about flogging a dead horse or whatever.

I hope you manage to get your complete prize, your game looks awesome.

E.D.

Jeku
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Posted: 17th May 2007 19:18
Who is the official TGC word around here now that Rich is gone? It feels like we're just farting in the wind.

KeithC
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Posted: 17th May 2007 19:31
Just let me know if I'm standing down-wind, Jeku.

zenassem
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Posted: 17th May 2007 19:52
If no one steps up, and really soon, I honestly see no other recourse other than for the "winners" to report this to the equivalent of the Better Business Bureau (in the U.S.) and file a formal complaint against both parties. In addition, I would request information on which government personell would handle investigating fraudulent/false Business pratices/advertisement/& contest regulations.

Sounds harsh, but unless I was awarded what I felt/knew was the correct prize; I'd have have no choice but to seek formal justice.

zenassem
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Posted: 17th May 2007 20:10 Edited at: 17th May 2007 20:12
If it were me...

At this point, I would pursue a free consultation with an attorney (bringing all relative information I could gather) who could properly advise me on any personal legal rights I may haver.

xplosys
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Posted: 17th May 2007 20:12
Dude, that is a great picture. I laughed uncontrollably. But ignoring a problem never made it go away.

Quote: "But everyone posting their disgust here is never gonna help the situation"


If it causes them to do something about it.... contact nVidia, complain on other sites and forums, write letters, not buy nVidia products, then it may help the situation. Granted, it won't change the world.

best.

I'm sorry, my answers are limited. You must ask the right question.

Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 17th May 2007 21:15
Quote: "If it were me..."

If it were me, I'd be bitterly angry. Burning with anger and righteousness.

However, I wouldn't pursue it. I'd just wish death upon Nvidia forever. The cost of pursuing it is way too much for any possible return. As a matter of principle it is worth pursuing, but it is not practical.

@Van B -
I like your picture. I'm disappointed by your viewpoint. You aren't just saying that pursuing it isn't practical, you're basically telling people to quit bitching and get over it. They've been wronged, and if they don't complain nothing will get solved. I hope they get it fixed. Of course, if they don't, at least they've gotten something. They should get what they were promised, though.

Quote: "But everyone posting their disgust here is never gonna help the situation"

Why wouldn't it? What would? Sitting in silence?

Nobody should confuse this with TGCs competitions though. This one didn't deliver as promised, but it did deliver.


Come see the WIP!
Alquerian
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Posted: 17th May 2007 21:28
I don't think that everyone who was wronged should just roll over and take it. I consider that the epitome of laziness. I didn't enter and I am voicing my opinion on this matter and making pro-active changes in my workplace to show support of those who were wronged. If I was wronged, I might spend a few hours trying to get the powers that be to rectify the situation before I spent $20 and a lunch break at the county courthouse filing a small claims judgement, in California, the claim is valid for up to $5000 in damages and requires a legal response. Most corporations would rather just give you what you ask for rather than pay their attorneys thousands of dollars in hopes of defeating you in something as trivial as a small claim.

By all means, Bitch, Moan, Kick and Scream if you want. I don't blame you, someone stated that it is our only real power as indi's and I agree wholeheartedly.

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Hobgoblin Lord
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Posted: 17th May 2007 21:29
Well I sent the email to Mr. Perez and he responded quickly, sent a few back and forth and he was unaware of the problem. POinted him to the thread and he seemed willing to see what he can do.

Jeku
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Posted: 17th May 2007 22:13
Good job

You can also post your story on the Consumerist website. Their site is geared toward helping people shed light on bad business practices. If you get posted to their front page, there's a good chance something will be done.

http://www.consumerist.com

KeithC
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Posted: 17th May 2007 22:45
Can't we send out the Black Helicopters to do a few circels around the Nvidia HQ?

Wehtam_
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Posted: 17th May 2007 22:51
Quote: "Well I sent the email to Mr. Perez and he responded quickly, sent a few back and forth and he was unaware of the problem. Pointed him to the thread and he seemed willing to see what he can do."


Thank you so much for doing this Hobgoblin Lord, and thank you Xplosys for getting the contact info. I haven't been able to get on the forum for a while. I will also get in touch with Mr Perez and fill him in on the story. Again, thank you Hobgoblin Lord.
Peter H
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Posted: 18th May 2007 01:18
Quote: "Can't we send out the Black Helicopters to do a few circels around the Nvidia HQ?"

I really don't think this is Nvidia's fault...

One man, one lawnmower, plenty of angry groundhogs.
FredP
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Posted: 18th May 2007 01:51
Quote: "I really don't think this is Nvidia's fault..."


How is it not their fault?
The prizes come from Nvidia.If Nvidia fails to deliver them then whose fault would it be?
Or another question I have is...
Whose responsibility is it?There were supposed to be specific prizes,contracts to make games,etc.
Whose responsibility is it to make sure that everyone gets/got their prizes?
If I won a computer system and a contract to make a game and I got three components and no contract I would be madder than a march hare.
Another question that comes off of the top of my head is what will happen if TGC has another compo like this?

Benjamin A
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Posted: 18th May 2007 02:18
Quote: "How is it not their fault?
The prizes come from Nvidia.If Nvidia fails to deliver them then whose fault would it be?"


TGC's fault?.....

Quote: "After sending a series of emails to Rick vanner, requesting answers as to where my prize has gone, it appears there is nothing TGC can do and that Nvidia have indeed delivered the correct prizes."


If TGC can do nothing because nVidia has delivered the correct prices and if that's truly the case then the fault shifts to TGC for promoting a contest with prizes that never excisted. At least, that seems the logic conclusion to me.

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bitJericho
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Posted: 18th May 2007 02:52
Quote: "If TGC can do nothing because nVidia has delivered the correct prices and if that's truly the case then the fault shifts to TGC for promoting a contest with prizes that never excisted. At least, that seems the logic conclusion to me."


What makes you think tgc advertised the wrong prizes.. it seemed a possibility at first (in this thread), but from reading it seems highly unlikely tgc messed up.

Peter H
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Posted: 18th May 2007 04:12 Edited at: 18th May 2007 04:13
Quote: "What makes you think tgc advertised the wrong prizes.. it seemed a possibility at first (in this thread), but from reading it seems highly unlikely tgc messed up."

...




maybe this...
Quote: "After sending a series of emails to Rick vanner, requesting answers as to where my prize has gone, it appears there is nothing TGC can do and that Nvidia have indeed delivered the correct prizes."


I'll agree that it is possible there was a communication mix-up between NVidia and TGC about the prizes, or possibily NVidia told TGC the wrong prize.

One man, one lawnmower, plenty of angry groundhogs.
FredP
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Posted: 18th May 2007 05:13
Wetham has already confirmed he didn't receive the right prize. Both TGC and Nvidia should be tripping over themselves to correct this.It was a very high profile contest (at least here on these forums) and the good PR alone would be worth whatever it takes to get everyone what was promised to them.
On the other hand bad PR as a result of this contest is going to have the opposite effect...but you already know this.
As long as the contest ran and the judging took Nvidia had a million chances to post something saying there was some kind of miscommunication.Even if there was some kind of error on TGC's part Nvidia had several months to correct any misunderstandings.
At this point it doesn't matter exactly who is responsible.
But TGC has offered some kind of resititution whereas Nvidia,at least to this point,hasn't offered jack.
All I am concerned about at this point is that everyone who won got what they were supposed to get.

jbfreeze
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Posted: 18th May 2007 05:24
The injustice goes a little further than that seeing as how the competition rules stated that there would be 2 first place winners one from the USA and one from the ROW
The game that hexgear and I entered Call of the Dragon was a USA entry
after seeing the results of the contest and that we were the only winners to have an entry from the U.S that would seem to be an automatic first place win
but instead we got third and a third place prize
for them to change the rules and prizes after the competition ended seems beyond unprofessional in my point of view especially for the fact that no one was notified of any rule changes
dark coder
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Posted: 18th May 2007 07:09
Quote: "This one didn't deliver as promised, but it did deliver."


Did it now?

Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 18th May 2007 07:24
Quote: "Did it now?"

Well, yes. A worse scenario would be that you received no prizes at all. That would be much, much worse.

I hope you don't misunderstand my post, I definitely think you guys are owed a computer and have every right to raise the issue.


Come see the WIP!
dark coder
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Posted: 18th May 2007 07:25 Edited at: 18th May 2007 07:25
Quote: "A worse scenario would be that you received no prizes at all."


What did you think my post was hinting at?

Cash Curtis II
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Posted: 18th May 2007 09:05
Oh, you've not received yours yet then, right? Well, mail is sometimes slow to Japan. Although, it's not very busy this time of year. I guess that would be a 'worse scenario' then


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Van B
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Posted: 18th May 2007 09:18
I'd get right on that, I mean it's about a month since I received mine, so you should definitely have yours by now.


Good guy, Good guy, Wan...
wizard of id
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Posted: 18th May 2007 09:36
jbfreeze yip that is the point I wanted to get across that there was going to be two first place prizes...That part made me pretty sad that they failed to do so.

Even worse is that they have not responded to this thread directly or for that matter delete this..

Not that I'm complaining I did get a 30$ voucher....So TGC thanks for that.Still sad they didn't keep their word.


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Alquerian
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Posted: 18th May 2007 10:22
TGC has clearly taken a fairly reasonable position on this matter. Offering the winners compensation for Nvidia's inexcusable actions is really admirable. Lee, Rick, you guys rock. Picking up the slack for someone else's coldheartedness (or lack of ethics/competence) really says something about your character.

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Benjamin A
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Posted: 18th May 2007 12:42
Quote: "The injustice goes a little further than that seeing as how the competition rules stated that there would be 2 first place winners one from the USA and one from the ROW
The game that hexgear and I entered Call of the Dragon was a USA entry
after seeing the results of the contest and that we were the only winners to have an entry from the U.S that would seem to be an automatic first place win
but instead we got third and a third place prize
for them to change the rules and prizes after the competition ended seems beyond unprofessional in my point of view especially for the fact that no one was notified of any rule changes "


That's not all.... the rules clearly stated that in the case you would enter more then one creation, you could only win one price. Yet, one person did win 2 prices, his games ended up 2nd and 5th and he was rewarded the 2 prices, contrary to the rules. Someone else has been cheated off a price..... Then there's still the shortlist issue. TGC sent a short list to nVidia with only a number of entries in it. That wasn't in the rules either. who guarentees that the best entries did win, if you're not going to give a good number of the entries a chance to be judged by both parties?

Quote: "TGC has clearly taken a fairly reasonable position on this matter. Offering the winners compensation for Nvidia's inexcusable actions is really admirable. Lee, Rick, you guys rock. Picking up the slack for someone else's coldheartedness (or lack of ethics/competence) really says something about your character."


The way it seems, it wasn't nVidia's fault at all, we're blaming the wrong company for the mess.

I did have my doubts about entering, but in the end I did.... I somehow regret it, since this competition seems to be a bit dodgy, looking back on how rules got bended and winners got cheated. But from what I do understand that isn't something new.

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Zappo
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Posted: 18th May 2007 12:44
Quote: "If I won a computer system and a contract to make a game and I got three components and no contract I would be madder than a march hare."

I think we need to be careful about the 'game contract' bit. The prize isn't necessarily a publishing deal, only funding (no mention of how much) to complete the game and the possibility of having it published - which I guess would be the decision of Mastertronic depending upon whether they are satisfied with its quality and commercial viability.
"The winning game will get funding to be developed into a full title, and upon satisfactory completion it will be published worldwide by Mastertronic."
dark coder
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Posted: 18th May 2007 15:49
I don't think Mastertronic even care about this, they probably just agreed to get their name out. If they were inclined to fulfill what they said, they would have contacted the FPSC winners by now, and even on the DBP side of things they would have at least said they were not interested in pursuing it, Simply not responding at all just means they don't care.

FredP
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Posted: 18th May 2007 18:44
Quote: "I think we need to be careful about the 'game contract' bit. The prize isn't necessarily a publishing deal, only funding (no mention of how much) to complete the game and the possibility of having it published - which I guess would be the decision of Mastertronic depending upon whether they are satisfied with its quality and commercial viability.
"The winning game will get funding to be developed into a full title, and upon satisfactory completion it will be published worldwide by Mastertronic." "

And that didn't even happen....and I'd still be madder than a march hare.

KeithC
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Posted: 18th May 2007 19:05
I'm really surprised that TGC hasn't responded to this thread yet...

zenassem
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Posted: 18th May 2007 20:54
While TGC hasn't responded to the thread. I do give them credit for two things.

1. Trying to offer some compensation.

2. Not forcing a MOD, or they themselves to lock, delete, or bury the thread.

Now with that said... If it were my company (TGC that is) I would have made good on NVidia's mistake and taken care of my own. Like someone else said, for the PR value and simply doing the right thing. Then I would have had done everything possible to get NVidia to work something out. This way it would be between the companies and not leaving my core customers stunned in disbelief, and frustration. For a few thousand, it would have been well in their interest.

I own a small business. A cleaning business. I get some unbelievable complaints (even when I have personally done the cleaning). The business barely covers my mortgage so It's not as if I am getting rich from it. I have taken month's services off the bill, even though the customer was a bit off base. Now as a business I can't afford to just cave in under every circumstance. I have sold, or simply walked away from troublesome accounts in the past. But sometimes, I have to eat it to keep a loyal customer happy and as a small family business, you need to do certain things in good faith.

KeithC
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Posted: 20th May 2007 23:51
I agree that PR is pretty important in business. One unhappy customer could lead to the loss of numerous potential customers. Still nothing from any officials yet?

ZAKU
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Posted: 24th May 2007 21:01
Hi Guys, Stumbled onto this post a bit late.

Whetam, sorry to hear about what happened to you,I have to admit that I was expecting the exact same prize you were and instead also got the exact same hardware you got LOL

In addition to this, becaus eI live in the armpit of the world I had to pay 300 Pounds just to get my prize cleared through customs.
So Imagine my surprise when I opened the box and saw what was inside.

In all fairness though, I haven't said anyhting about it to anyone due to the fact that I actually wasn't expecting to win anything at all, so I'm still pleased with my prize, albeit slightly baffled by the misunderstanding that has obviously taken place here.

I've taken a long hard look at everyhting said and mentioned and feel that you should at least have been notified by now if you're game was going to be funded and published.

Oh well, I guess there's nothing to do but sit back and let everyhting run its course.

dark coder
21
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 6th Oct 2002
Location: Japan
Posted: 24th May 2007 21:19
So... I'm the only one who hasn't got anything?

Bizar Guy
19
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 20th Apr 2005
Location: Bostonland
Posted: 24th May 2007 22:40
I don't think Mike intel has either.

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